Re: Figuring out the mission (Paul W. Frields)

2007-02-23 Thread John Baer

On 2/22/07, David wrote:


Maybe this write-up by Jef is useful for you to read


https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-January/msg00176.html

since I think you're confused about what open source means (you seem to
equate it with democracy). Anyway, I'm going to step out of this thread
for a bit...



David, thank you for the above link. A great read ... and Paul thank you for
your comments.

In my mind I am trying to sort out moving forward in a way that adds value.

Here are my questions.

1. Referencing David's link above, who is our benevolent dictator (my
preference of title would be Red Hat liaison)? If this is the way we must
travel let's put our cards on the table.

2. Should artwork be centralized or decentralized? By that I mean should the
documentation team come to the art team for art work or just do it? If the
decision is decentralized then the question becomes is there a need for a
art team?

3. If the decision stands that Red Hat will take control of the Fedora
desktop I would argue this should also include icons. IMO icons are too
closely tied to artwork to be be separated and if they are this will be
source of future issues like the one we just experienced.

With these questions answered I can assemble some ideas in a wiki page for
the team to consider. If these questions can not be answered I am at a lost
of what to do next.

More as a BTW, I loaded the latest Ubuntu herd CD to see what's going on
there and I was amused to see some of the artwork considered unworthy for
dapper is in the package for feisty. I can only assume Mark S. realized
his decision to pull artwork from the community was a mistake. Maybe there
is a lesson to be learned . :)

Cheers,

John
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Re: Figuring out the mission (Paul W. Frields)

2007-02-22 Thread John Baer

Hello Paul,

The subject of your email is very appropriate but the content really doesn't
shine much light on the issue or provide comfort to the team.

Let me start by stating the obvious. Prior to February 13th the Art Team was
a fully functioning Open Source effort; vibrant, active, and filled with
discussion. Effort in progress was posted to the wiki and feed back was
solicited from the community.

Checking the pulse of the team of late I would say its pretty much flat
lined with little or no activity as a direct result of the actions from Red
Hat.


This decision is based on a number of factors, not the least of which is
the involvement of thorny issues of trademark, branding, and the polish
demands from both inside and outside the Fedora Project.


Why did Red Hat feel the need to steal what we already agreed to give them?

Other than the fact we started earlier, the processed was the same used for
fedora core 6 and to my knowledge a stated concern was never brought
forward. Assuming the above issues are real, why didn't someone from Red Hat
post them to the list server?. Was there really a need to secretly take the
effort of the team off line and continue development behind behind closed
doors?


But unfortunately, we haven't been completely successful, and to make a

long story short,  we've had to concede the default release theme work to
the Desktop group inside Red

Hat.


Is fedora sponsored by Red Hat or owned by Red Hat?

Under what authority does fedora operate and what authority does Red Hat
have over fedora? The decision to pull back the artwork effort was
completely unilateral. The impression I received from folks who occasionally
posted messages to the art team list server was to push the envelope. IMO
the actions of Red Hat in this matter is a direct reflection of the golden
rule of business. That is to say he who has the gold, rules.


But the default theme is not all there is to the Artwork project. There

are many things left to  do, including the Echo icon set. Redesign and new
art is needed for the Wiki, infrastructure  applications, the Some Day
Soon Plone site, and so forth. In addition, Fedora is not

limited to just the default release art.


+1

Does Red Hat really support open source or is it just lip service?

I agree there is much more to do but the question now becomes why? If open
source doesn't work for fc7 default, why would it work for anything else?
IMO a three alarm fire bell should be sounding loudly across the fedora
community as the message is clearly who will be next?


In addition, Fedora is not limited to just the default release art. As

part of the initiative to

give users the ability to spin their own distributions built on Fedora,

we'd like contributor art  to be able to function as a drop-in RPM package
replacement for the default release art.

Second fiddle has always been a choice.

Users have always had the ability to change artwork to meet their personal
desires. If this was the your reward for the concession then you didn't get
much.


To ensure that I do this as well as possible, and that your ideas are

heard, understood, and  fairly represented, I invite your comments,
criticisms, and ideas.

If you bring a problem to the table, bring a solution.

IMO Paul, the fedora art-team is all but dead unless real changes are made.
Red Hat has not conducted itself with the values of equality, love,
integrity, excellence, inclusion, or teamwork. When this value system breaks
down so does trust.

As far as I know the development of the default artwork continues in a
vacuum and Red Hat should understand the risk of this type of effort.

So here are my suggestions on moving forward.

1. Define in very clear terms what authority Red Hat has over Fedora. Is it
sponsorship or is it ownership?

2. Bring additional structure to the process. I've jotted down my thoughts
here.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/ArtProcess

3. If fedora is going to be open source then fedora needs to do open source.
Bring the default artwork back to the team and assign Diana as the project
lead. It's always been Diana's call on the default and I would expect that
role to continue.

4. Start rebuilding trust with an apology from the Red Hat desktop team
posted to the list server.

5. Re-craft the art team's default wiki page to better communicate its
purpose and it's relationship to other teams such as marketing and
infrastructure.

John
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Re: Figuring out the mission (Paul W. Frields)

2007-02-22 Thread David Zeuthen

Hi John,

Maybe this write-up by Jef is useful for you to read

 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-January/msg00176.html

since I think you're confused about what open source means (you seem to
equate it with democracy). Anyway, I'm going to step out of this thread
for a bit...

 David


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