Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
Hey Jeff, Sorry, very late to this thread - just catching up. I agree that in the future it is wise to avoid these types of issues. In other context where I am hoping to work with wallpapers I intended to use the following: Images of people, buildings, and flags should probably be avoided. Focus on the things that we share - not the things that separate us. Jon On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jeff Spaleta jspal...@gmail.com wrote: I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as Mikus worships paganism To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. -jef ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
Jeff Spaleta wrote: To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. We played a bit with Cambridge cultural elements but it didn't get further than some preliminary concepts (and of course someone complained about a visible church). I think cultural references are good and personally consider pushing myself chocolate as a cultural reference for F12. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fed...@nicubunu.ro wrote: We played a bit with Cambridge cultural elements but it didn't get further than some preliminary concepts (and of course someone complained about a visible church). I think cultural references are good and personally consider pushing myself chocolate as a cultural reference for F12. Crap, sorry. I didn't realize there was a pre-existing discussion that spoke to this. Sorry for bringing it to the list's attention then. -jef ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 05:52:58PM -0700, Máirín Duffy wrote: - Original Message From: Jeff Spaleta jspal...@gmail.com I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as Mikus worships paganism To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this. We need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors, we must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation: First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named Paul in charge of something? Paul is one of the apostles of that Jesus guy, right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have any possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. Máirín - sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud. [snip] Stay safe! I would like to take this moment to ask everyone to stop this thread right here before it goes any more crazy/sarcastic/ballistic. Thanks! I Agree! Seems to be a bit too exaggerated... ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 17:52 -0700, Máirín Duffy wrote: Hello Jeff, Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention - Wow, way to deal with critics ! I'm impressed by your command of ridicule. I'm much less impressed with the beta background though. IMO it is really overloaded with all too well-known motifs, to the extent that it appears almost like a satire of a constructed background image. I mean, it has clouds and mountains and doves and a black forest and a green lawn _and_ a greek temple. Any 2 out of these 6 might combine to a nice background, but all six are just too much for my taste. Matthias ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote: I'm much less impressed with the beta background though. IMO it is really overloaded with all too well-known motifs, to the extent that it appears almost like a satire of a constructed background image. I mean, it has clouds and mountains and doves and a black forest and a green lawn _and_ a greek temple. Any 2 out of these 6 might combine to a nice background, but all six are just too much for my taste. The aim this type, AIUI, was to have a background more like a natural picture. It would have been great to have a photo of a real landscape from Greece, perhaps, but in the absence people worked on a photomanip using free sources. I think this background is not too dissimilar from the Fedora 7 background of clouds, sunset, mist, and a set of balloons. I liked the previous releases' concentration on a motif as opposed to a more realistic scene, but I also like the idea of having new directions now and then. Paul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
- Original Message From: Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com I'm much less impressed with the beta background though. IMO it is really overloaded with all too well-known motifs, to the extent that it appears almost like a satire of a constructed background image. I mean, it has clouds and mountains and doves and a black forest and a green lawn _and_ a greek temple. Any 2 out of these 6 might combine to a nice background, but all six are just too much for my taste. Thank you for the feedback. Receiving this kind of feedback is exactly why we aimed to get a wallpaper into the beta. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as Mikus worships paganism To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. -jef ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 10:55 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as Mikus worships paganism To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. -jef Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. There is vast difference between you worshiping ancient Greece gods (not that it would be something bad if you actually do) and having a huge Zeus' temple wallpaper hanging on your wall, let alone the wallpaper in your PC (which you can promptly change if you disagree with the content)... Come on, we have names of months named after ancient Rome gods (and important people) and it still does not say anything about our beliefs. While I agree we should stay away from political references, subtle cultural references are IMHO good and bring Fedora to next level in this aspect. Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
2009/3/14 Martin Sourada martin.sour...@gmail.com: Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. I'm delibrately not trying to make a statement as to validity of the reasoning about the objection. In fact, I might even question the idea that reasoning is ever a part of an emotional response. I'm pointing this out only because this is the first instance that I know of where this sort of emotional response on the grounds of cultural sensitivity has arisen in the work your group is doing. I certainly don't have the same emotional response. My emotion response is more of fear of the ominous,wheeling, flock of birds in the image. I haven't brought it up as a point of contention because I'm fully self-aware that most people don't perceive birds as the danger to humanity that they really areyet. Such pastoral views of flocking birds in the sky only serves to lessen our natural fear of these foul, foul descendent of the dinosaurs...disarming us of our ability to react when they final swoop down en masse to get us. But I digress... We can't necessarily reason with irrational emotional responses. You might have to talk more about what that structure is meant to convey emotionally...if its worth talking about at all. -jef ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 01:13:43PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: 2009/3/14 Martin Sourada martin.sour...@gmail.com: Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. I'm delibrately not trying to make a statement as to validity of the reasoning about the objection. In fact, I might even question the idea that reasoning is ever a part of an emotional response. I'm pointing this out only because this is the first instance that I know of where this sort of emotional response on the grounds of cultural sensitivity has arisen in the work your group is doing. I certainly don't have the same emotional response. My emotion response is more of fear of the ominous,wheeling, flock of birds in the image. I haven't brought it up as a point of contention because I'm fully self-aware that most people don't perceive birds as the danger to humanity that they really areyet. Such pastoral views of flocking birds in the sky only serves to lessen our natural fear of these foul, foul descendent of the dinosaurs...disarming us of our ability to react when they final swoop down en masse to get us. But I digress... OK, thanks for that digression, Tippi. ;-) We can't necessarily reason with irrational emotional responses. You might have to talk more about what that structure is meant to convey emotionally...if its worth talking about at all. I'm not sure it is -- but the conveyance as far as I know is simply to acknowledge the heritage of the Leonidas name. Any other inference is probably a stretch. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug pgpeTTMU5N29T.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 05:52:58PM -0700, Máirín Duffy wrote: - Original Message From: Jeff Spaleta jspal...@gmail.com I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as Mikus worships paganism To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this. We need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors, we must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation: First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named Paul in charge of something? Paul is one of the apostles of that Jesus guy, right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have any possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. Máirín - sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud. [snip] Stay safe! I would like to take this moment to ask everyone to stop this thread right here before it goes any more crazy/sarcastic/ballistic. Thanks! -- Ian Weller ianwel...@gmail.com http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet. ~ Douglas Adams pgp2pnfnNRYK9.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
- Original Message From: Máirín Duffy mai...@linuxgrrl.com To: Fedora Art List fedora-art-list@redhat.com Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52:58 PM Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork Hello Jeff, Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention - Oh crap, I just realized my reply might be OFFENSIVE. Crap. No humor or satire allowed in Fedora either! ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork
Hello Jeff, Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention - - Original Message From: Jeff Spaleta jspal...@gmail.com To: Fedora Art List fedora-art-list@redhat.com Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:55:51 PM Subject: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as Mikus worships paganism To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this. We need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors, we must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation: First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named Paul in charge of something? Paul is one of the apostles of that Jesus guy, right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have any possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. Máirín - sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud. Then, we've got this other problem. See, we have this color blue that symbolizes Fedora. This is a MAJOR problem, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue#Religion - Not only is blue an important, symbolic color in the Hindu religion, but it's also an important color in Judaism! We've got a major, major problem here. As soon as I'm stated as the new Fedora project leader, I will change the official Fedora color to blah grey, because that can't possibly symbolize ANYTHING. In fact, I think we need to cancel the Fedora art team. From now on, all of our artwork will just be blah grey-colored squares. We just can't risk offending anyone. Done and done! A! Oh, my go... er, erm whoah whoah Nelly there! I *really* mean, oh my gads! I just realized, this is way bigger a problem than we originally thought. This goes way beyond Fedora. Check this out: - The New York Public Library: http://www.flickr.com/photos/72131...@n00/238786611/ (They featured this building in Spiderman! The insensitive, incendiary clods! This is supposed to be a library! A place of higher learning! Above religion! It's indelibly marked with religious conflict all over it! It looks JUST LIKE A TEMPLE. How could I not have seen this before) - The White House: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kathleen-andersen/237167863/ (There go those Americans again, stirring up deeply-rooted religious strife by making their president's accomodations resemble a Greek temple! So much for the separation of church and state!) - apple.com - these computers are swiftly gaining popularity. We have to stop this scourge. I mean, clearly Apple is a reference to a Biblical passage involving a garden and snakes and naked people and that sort of thing. How offensive! - Battlestar Galactica - they've got this kind of chorus-y hymn-sounding chanting for a theme song. Kind of like religious chanting! They are obviously broadcasting subliminal religious messages. Good thing you brought this conspiracy up. Now we can warn the good people of the world! I'm just too distraught to carry on. I feel like my entire world is full of these things symbolizing other things, and I'm finding myself strangely offended by everything. Like the crown molding along the ceiling of my apartment, which now looks like the columns of a temple. Or the weave pattern in the rug beneath my feet, which seems to contain some hidden heathen message. Crap. I'm typing this all on a computer with FEDORA on it, with a blue Fedora logo in the upper left corner and that horrible, awful religious wallpaper. My palms are tingling. I'm going to go run to the kitchen and scrub them with a Brillo pad... oh crap, those are blue aren't they. Bleach! I'll
