Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:10:59 -0400, you wrote: 238Can libvdpau go in Fedora? As far I understand this package itself is open source but has a dependency to the properitary nVidia video driver which is provides by rpmfusion.org. For this reason I vote agains the inclusion of this package into Fedora because I introduce a requirement reference to a third-party repository. Best Regards: Jochen Schmitt -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 15:39 +0200, Jochen Schmitt wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:10:59 -0400, you wrote: 238 Can libvdpau go in Fedora? As far I understand this package itself is open source but has a dependency to the properitary nVidia video driver which is provides by rpmfusion.org. For this reason I vote agains the inclusion of this package into Fedora because I introduce a requirement reference to a third-party repository. I think there's precedents for accepting it for Fedora: - libXNVCtrl, another X extension library that happens to only do anything when the user is running the nvidia binary driver, but which is itself MIT-licensed. - gstreamer-plugins-flumpegdemux, which allows you to separate the audio and video streams from MPEG files, even though the decoding itself is off-limits for Fedora It happens that only nvidia implements VDPAU at the moment, but so what? Any other vendor could too. - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On 08/20/2009 10:10 PM, Jon Stanley wrote: Apologies for the late agenda, I completely blanked out today :(. The following are the topics for tomorrow's meeting at 17:00UTC on #fedora-meeting on freenode: 244 Reconsider Moblin Feature for Fedora 12 238 Can libvdpau go in Fedora? For more complete details, please visit each individual ticket. The report of the agenda items can be found at https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/report/9 If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can reply to this e-mail, file a new ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fesco, e-mail me directly, or bring it up at the end of the meeting, during the open floor. I'm pretty sure there are several Fedora Packaging Committee items waiting to be ratified. I think there are at least two tickets still open in Traac. ~spot -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 21.08.2009 15:57, schrieb Adam Jackson: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 15:39 +0200, Jochen Schmitt wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:10:59 -0400, you wrote: 238Can libvdpau go in Fedora? As far I understand this package itself is open source but has a dependency to the properitary nVidia video driver which is provides by rpmfusion.org. For this reason I vote agains the inclusion of this package into Fedora because I introduce a requirement reference to a third-party repository. I think there's precedents for accepting it for Fedora: - libXNVCtrl, another X extension library that happens to only do anything when the user is running the nvidia binary driver, but which is itself MIT-licensed. - gstreamer-plugins-flumpegdemux, which allows you to separate the audio and video streams from MPEG files, even though the decoding itself is off-limits for Fedora - From my point of view. This cases demostrate, that we need a clarification about the requirements which a package has to fullfill for inclusssion into Fedora. Package which are only useable if you have installed a package which is not part of Fedora may not allow for Fedora. This is the argument why we not contributes eumulators. In common emulators requires special ROM images which contains copyright content. It happens that only nvidia implements VDPAU at the moment, but so what? Any other vendor could too. - A made dicision may not be valid forever. If we will have got a opensource package which allow the usage of vdpau with the close source driver from nvidia we can change this dicision. Best Regards: Jochen Schmitt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iJwEAQECAAYFAkqOrqYACgkQZLAIBz9lVu8IPQP/URKbZwLWz86b6y+8mRJtNv61 sUhgpY8pXQ1ztvf1HKVL2gdj6QnVuzFS6wb4x3UN3UTpErDZaF5x6galuS1zJOOo 5+iSjtkVdxDr12CQTEUT7+weKYTGxw3Vg2cFNzH4j3GkQzo8vxm2DJCDEwXvyZ3Q K8WjxvoHRS/LUXQn5pM= =8/2F -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Adam Jacksona...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 15:39 +0200, Jochen Schmitt wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:10:59 -0400, you wrote: 238 Can libvdpau go in Fedora? As far I understand this package itself is open source but has a dependency to the properitary nVidia video driver which is provides by rpmfusion.org. For this reason I vote agains the inclusion of this package into Fedora because I introduce a requirement reference to a third-party repository. I think there's precedents for accepting it for Fedora: - libXNVCtrl, another X extension library that happens to only do anything when the user is running the nvidia binary driver, but which is itself MIT-licensed. - gstreamer-plugins-flumpegdemux, which allows you to separate the audio and video streams from MPEG files, even though the decoding itself is off-limits for Fedora It happens that only nvidia implements VDPAU at the moment, but so what? Any other vendor could too. Well S3 does, but there driver isn't open either. But it proves that non nvidia implementations are possible. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 16:26 +0200, Jochen Schmitt wrote: - From my point of view. This cases demostrate, that we need a clarification about the requirements which a package has to fullfill for inclusssion into Fedora. I don't disagree, but... Package which are only useable if you have installed a package which is not part of Fedora may not allow for Fedora. This is the argument why we not contributes eumulators. In common emulators requires special ROM images which contains copyright content. I think this is a faulty generalization. X is a network protocol. vdpau and xnvctrl applications can be perfectly functional running on a Fedora machine with no nvidia driver installed, if they happen to be talking to some _other_ machine somewhere in the world that does support those extensions. One might argue that this is a trivial distinction, and that it still requires some non-free blob to be made to work, but to make that assertion you're basically saying that interoperability is only acceptable if there's some free implementation of what you're interoperating with. If you follow that idea through, you end up removing pilot-link, libgpod... The emulator rule-of-thumb makes sense to the extent that the emulator itself is the end goal. If the only reason you could want it installed is to play some arcade game ROM then there's pretty clearly no interoperability argument to be made. But libvdpau isn't the end goal; the VDPAU app is the end goal. libvdpau is just how you get there. The emulator RoT also assumes that the copyright holder of the magic bits doesn't _want_ you to use them. NVIDIA clearly wants people to use VDPAU. - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 21.08.2009 17:10, schrieb Adam Jackson: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 16:26 +0200, Jochen Schmitt wrote: - From my point of view. This cases demostrate, that we need a clarification about the requirements which a package has to fullfill for inclusssion into Fedora. I don't disagree, but... Package which are only useable if you have installed a package which is not part of Fedora may not allow for Fedora. This is the argument why we not contributes eumulators. In common emulators requires special ROM images which contains copyright content. I think this is a faulty generalization. X is a network protocol. vdpau and xnvctrl applications can be perfectly functional running on a Fedora machine with no nvidia driver installed, if they happen to be talking to some _other_ machine somewhere in the world that does support those extensions. One might argue that this is a trivial distinction, and that it still requires some non-free blob to be made to work, but to make that assertion you're basically saying that interoperability is only acceptable if there's some free implementation of what you're interoperating with. If you follow that idea through, you end up removing pilot-link, libgpod... The emulator rule-of-thumb makes sense to the extent that the emulator itself is the end goal. If the only reason you could want it installed is to play some arcade game ROM then there's pretty clearly no interoperability argument to be made. But libvdpau isn't the end goal; the VDPAU app is the end goal. libvdpau is just how you get there. The emulator RoT also assumes that the copyright holder of the magic bits doesn't _want_ you to use them. NVIDIA clearly wants people to use VDPAU. - ajax Thank you for your explaination. I think we should make a distinct betwenn a regquirement which must install on the same machine and another requirement which is provides by a remote system. Best Regards: Jochen Schmitt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iJwEAQECAAYFAkqOumsACgkQZLAIBz9lVu9MoQP/ZNjwRUZSEUFxRj19pmjKocky 4OfA8yE8k15ZSEGr46wy7aMTshSnN0Ccw3hxwM1Qj+Z/g21XVJlXOK4EyFIz28Mt voBhqg2nYOBbArbBfLs+Jp3BnVZ1WIUdhTtWyDfdo6l5si61QYc5QGL2ZATBaHRT 7BYhDbiZFWxevACyRPE= =QIRs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 16:51 +0200, drago01 wrote: Well S3 does, but there driver isn't open either. But it proves that non nvidia implementations are possible. S3's driver implements VAAPI, not VDPAU. I already have a package review for libva submitted (mentioned it yesterday). -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Plan for tomorrow's (20090821) FESCo meeting
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Adam Williamsonawill...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 16:51 +0200, drago01 wrote: Well S3 does, but there driver isn't open either. But it proves that non nvidia implementations are possible. S3's driver implements VAAPI, not VDPAU. I already have a package review for libva submitted (mentioned it yesterday). http://drivers.s3graphics.com/en/download/drivers/chrome5x-Linux/RN_Linux_EN.txt hmm? I have not tested it due to lack of hardware but it says: 06/26/2009: Version 14.02.17 - Bug Fixes - XRandR support - VDPAU support - KMS Support SUPPORTED FEATURES - H/W accelerated 2D (XAA/EXA) - H/W accelerated direct-rendering OpenG3.0 - H/W accelerated H.264/MPEG2/WMV-9/VC-1 video playback. - SAMM / Rotation / Xinerama / Compiz - XRandR support - VDPAU support - KMS Support And there are a lot of VDPAU references in the bug fixed list. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
