Re: pruning the fonts list
Jeremy Katz さんは書きました: On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 15:57 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: When looking over the LiveCD manifest, and where space is going, I can't help but notice that a lot of it goes to fonts. Here's the full list, AFAICT. The number to the left is the size of the package. I think a good chunk of this could be pruned. Yes a lot of space in general ends up being used by fonts. I'd lean towards saying we should make things optional in comps rather than making explicit changes to the livecd, though from a maintenance point of view. Although I guess if we wanted to do it first on the livecd for F9 and then in general for F10 via comps, that'd be okay Well we have argued about this before, but my take now is that we should have Lang Support group parity across Live and standard installs: so either we don't install all the language support groups for Live or we should for standard installs, and then take comps from there. Personally I would tend towards not installing all language groups for Live and installing some Input Methods by default to compensate, which would leave Live in a similar state to what it is now, but would drop various fonts that are only installed by default for language support groups. Jens ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: Enhancing the fonts list for the KDE live images (was: Re: pruning the fonts list)
Le samedi 19 avril 2008 à 00:36 +0200, Sebastian Vahl a écrit : I've got a similar question here for the KDE live images. At the moment our fonts list is: At first glance you could use pretty much the same advice as the live spin, except you've already followed some of it, and you have support for some scripts the main live spin is missing (which is good, if you have the space). For example : tibetan ethiopic (abyssinica). If you really wanted to save space, you could drop the urw ghoscript fonts, but I suspect you may have some packages depending on them explicitely. They don't add coverage, and they're not really good screen font, but they do provide some standard font metrics (is it worth some live cd space?) signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: pruning the fonts list
Le samedi 19 avril 2008 à 11:31 +0300, Oron Peled a écrit : [cross-posting to an Israeli Group of Linux Users. IGLU readers, please read and send me your feedback. A concrete information (specific apps, toolkits, specific characters/nikud) would help us form a valid opinion] On Saturday, 19 בApril 2008, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le vendredi 18 avril 2008 à 15:57 -0400, Bill Nottingham a écrit : When looking over the LiveCD manifest, and where space is going, I can't help but notice that a lot of it goes to fonts. Here's the full list, AFAICT. The number to the left is the size of the package. I think a good chunk of this could be pruned. My advice would be: ... 4. drop culmus — DejaVu full includes Hebrew no one complained of during the F9 cycle, so no need to keep a separate Hebrew font on a space-constrained media If DejaVu provides good-enough substitute for space limited media, than it may be OK. Well, DejaVu certainly does not aim just at good enough. Please report any problem with it upstream. Even if Culmus stays in Fedora users will mostly see DejaVu since it's the default font set (not just in Fedora BTW). So if your script is included in DejaVu you really want to work with DejaVu upstream to get it good. Anyway that highlights a problem with fonts: users are highly sensitive to font changes, and fonts change slowly. So l10n groups *must* test the Fedora font selection very early in a cycle. Any problem spotted after what used to be called Test2 is unlikely to be fixed in time for the final release. More local involvement in font packaging would help of course. -- Nicolas Mailhot signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: pruning the fonts list
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 15:57 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: When looking over the LiveCD manifest, and where space is going, I can't help but notice that a lot of it goes to fonts. Here's the full list, AFAICT. The number to the left is the size of the package. I think a good chunk of this could be pruned. Yes a lot of space in general ends up being used by fonts. I'd lean towards saying we should make things optional in comps rather than making explicit changes to the livecd, though from a maintenance point of view. Although I guess if we wanted to do it first on the livecd for F9 and then in general for F10 via comps, that'd be okay Jeremy ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: pruning the fonts list
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 16:04 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: Jeremy Katz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 15:57 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: When looking over the LiveCD manifest, and where space is going, I can't help but notice that a lot of it goes to fonts. Here's the full list, AFAICT. The number to the left is the size of the package. I think a good chunk of this could be pruned. Yes a lot of space in general ends up being used by fonts. I'd lean towards saying we should make things optional in comps rather than making explicit changes to the livecd, though from a maintenance point of view. Although I guess if we wanted to do it first on the livecd for F9 and then in general for F10 via comps, that'd be okay Well, things like 'these fonts are only useful outside of fontconfig', or 'only really used for various terminal emulators' are decisions probably best left to the spin, not to the generic comps. If the apps not using fontconfig aren't marked as defaults, then it's probably not unreasonable. At least the bitmap fonts, we should probably finally take the plunge with Jeremy ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: pruning the fonts list
Le vendredi 18 avril 2008 à 15:57 -0400, Bill Nottingham a écrit : When looking over the LiveCD manifest, and where space is going, I can't help but notice that a lot of it goes to fonts. Here's the full list, AFAICT. The number to the left is the size of the package. I think a good chunk of this could be pruned. My advice would be: 1. drop every core fonts package except one to keep legacy users happy (probably xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-15-100dpi) 2. drop xorg-x11-fonts-Type1. Nothing in there not provided by more modern font packages 3. fonts-japanese is probably not 100% necessary when VLGothic is available 4. drop culmus — DejaVu full includes Hebrew no one complained of during the F9 cycle, so no need to keep a separate Hebrew font on a space-constrained media 5. Have the Arabic l10n group choose between kacst and paktype 6. Have the Indic l10n group sort the huge number of indic fonts, keeping only one package per script (sarai, lohit, smc, samyak) 7. Have the Chinese l10n group choose between cjkunifonts-uming and cjkunifonts-ukai 8. add dejavu-fonts-experimental — you *really* want the distro default fonts to have a complete face set, a lot of users will notice and complain otherwise I'm afraid most wins are in 3. 5. 6. 7., and they depend on l10n groups telling us their wishes, which unfortunately has not happened a lot so far. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Triaging/L10N remains terribly incomplete. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: pruning the fonts list
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 23:13 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le vendredi 18 avril 2008 à 15:57 -0400, Bill Nottingham a écrit : When looking over the LiveCD manifest, and where space is going, I can't help but notice that a lot of it goes to fonts. Here's the full list, AFAICT. The number to the left is the size of the package. I think a good chunk of this could be pruned. My advice would be: I pretty much second everything Nicolas said. behdad 1. drop every core fonts package except one to keep legacy users happy (probably xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-15-100dpi) 2. drop xorg-x11-fonts-Type1. Nothing in there not provided by more modern font packages 3. fonts-japanese is probably not 100% necessary when VLGothic is available 4. drop culmus — DejaVu full includes Hebrew no one complained of during the F9 cycle, so no need to keep a separate Hebrew font on a space-constrained media 5. Have the Arabic l10n group choose between kacst and paktype 6. Have the Indic l10n group sort the huge number of indic fonts, keeping only one package per script (sarai, lohit, smc, samyak) 7. Have the Chinese l10n group choose between cjkunifonts-uming and cjkunifonts-ukai 8. add dejavu-fonts-experimental — you *really* want the distro default fonts to have a complete face set, a lot of users will notice and complain otherwise I'm afraid most wins are in 3. 5. 6. 7., and they depend on l10n groups telling us their wishes, which unfortunately has not happened a lot so far. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Triaging/L10N remains terribly incomplete. Regards, -- fedora-devel-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- behdad http://behdad.org/ Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
Re: pruning the fonts list
Le samedi 19 avril 2008 à 02:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit : Nicolas Mailhot wrote: 6. Have the Indic l10n group sort the huge number of indic fonts, keeping only one package per script (sarai, lohit, smc, samyak) Lohit is what we prefer by default for Indic. Everything else can be deemed optional. Since they're all broken up by scripts now you probably want to be more specific, unless lohit provides every needed indic script and none of the others is necessary for coverage. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
