Re: [Felvtalk] Cats as "property"

[Ardy Robertson]

This is a tad off topic but I have a friend who bought a chocolate lab puppy
supposed to be certified or whatever to have healthy hips, because labs are
prone to hip dysplasia or something like that. Anyway, after their family
fell in love with the puppy and it was firmly a member of their family,
"Tasha" developed a painful hip problem. The vet said the dog would probably
need surgery and quoted them a ballpark of a couple thousand dollars. They
contacted the breeder they had purchased the dog from who told them he would
give them a puppy from the next litter. Of course that was probably all he
could offer at that time but I thought it was kinda cold sounding after they
already loved THEIR dog!

At any rate, I gave my friend a small Homedics brand battery-operated
massager ($6.00) like one that my hubby uses on his shoulder and for sciatic
nerve pain in his legs, and he tried it on the dog's hips. Later on he was
going to give it back to me and I told him I had meant for him to keep it.
He said they had purchased one because the dog loves it so much. He said
Tasha actually goes and gets it in his mouth and brings it to them for them
to use on his hips, and now the vet says he may not need surgery. I think it
stimulated blood flow / oxygen to the area and has made quite a difference.
Such a simple, cheap therapy!


-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Amani Oakley
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 11:08 AM
To: felineres...@frontier.com; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cats as "property"

Lorrie

I completely agree with you, but the law often lags behind the views of
society, and if legislators don't push forward these issues, the law can
remain mired in the dark ages. As "property", the law only considers animals
to be worth their replacement value, period. They don't "deserve respect" in
the eyes of the law, because they are the equivalent of a lawn mower or
chair. Of course this is totally out of step with the views of most
Canadians and Americans, and other nationalities around the world, and there
is the occasional judge who recognizes that fact, but you sure can't count
on it when starting litigation. In the U.S., it is possible to initiate
litigation for significant numbers, claiming punitive or aggravated damages,
but I would guess that only in circumstances where a vet has been overtly
and deliberately cruel would there be in the potential for someone to be
successful in advancing those kinds of heads of damages.

There was a discussion on my legal chatline some time ago, regarding an
unpleasant divorce. The husband had promised to look after the wife's cats
until she found a place to stay. Instead, he took her cats in to the local
shelter. The shelter refused to let the woman know who had adopted the cats,
or if they even had been adopted. The lawyer representing the wife was
asking the rest of us lawyers, if there was anything he could do in terms of
going after the husband for this nasty behaviour, and sure enough, all the
lawyers told him that there was no legal basis to pursue damages related to
what he had done. I was the only one on my chatline saying that if MY
husband EVER handed over my cats during a family dispute, then he had been
run and just keep on running. But that's taking the law into my own hands,
of course. The courts are unlikely to do much, nor do they have the legal
grounds to do something, even if they wanted to do so.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lorrie
Sent: October-25-15 8:09 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cats as "property"

On 10-24, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> It is a shame that cats and dogs, any animal is "just property". 
> That reduces them to almost 'nothing in the law's eyes.  As property, 
> do they not have any value?  They deserve respect at the very least.
> Any one tell me my cats are just property and not deserving of love, 
> respect and proper care had better be prepared to run as fast as he 
> can.  Someone once said he would use them for target practice.  I told 
> him he would be lying on the ground next to them.
-
I rescue abandoned cats and kittens and last year I found a calico kitten
about 8 or 9 weeks old. She was walking down the street right in the middle
of town and this creep saw her at the same time and wanted to feed her to
his "pet python". Well you can be sure he didn't get this poor baby. She is
still with us, spayed, happy and loved.
-
Lorrie
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy

[Ardy Robertson]

No the rabies vaccination started out at a small mom and pop type of vet
office which has now closed, the people retired. They were very nice, but I
am wondering if the vaccination was old or something because they didn't
have much business. They sent me to a larger place that had sub-cu fluids.
And they are the ones that gave the pills which I believe caused the
convulsions.

The second place happens to be the emergency hospital I took Tigger the
first night when he had a fever. They gave him antibiotic pills, sub-cu
fluids and pain liquid in syringes.

I have a "regular" vet office which I go to because Tigg likes the folks
there and they are the ones that detected the FeLV, although they are the
ones that tested him for it 5 years prior. I guess it's not their fault that
he had a negative which really was not negative??? They are very willing to
try anything to help him though.

And the last office I use is close to my home but they are the ones that
really need to be educated not to immediately euthanize. They are now better
than before because they have a bunch of new vets that Tigger likes now. He
did not like one of the that hit a bone when giving him a shot one time and
he really let him know it :)

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Margo
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:29 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy



Is this all the same Vet? Are you in the US?

-Original Message-
>From: Ardy Robertson 
>Sent: Oct 25, 2015 10:16 PM
>To: felineres...@frontier.com, felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy
>
>Yes, he had the vaccination and quit eating/drinking so they gave him 
>sub-cu fluids and put him on some pills. I read the side effects of the 
>pills and it said it could cause convulsions in puppies but there had 
>never been a recorded case of convulsions in cats. Scotchy had a 
>convulsion and died. I told them that it must have been a side effect 
>of the pills but they didn't think so. I believe it all started with 
>the rabies vaccination. Now, I do not vaccinate my cats for rabies if 
>they are going to be lifetime house cats. I had to get a stray cat 
>vaccinated for rabies because I was getting her spayed and they would 
>not spay until she was vaccinated. She turned into a very expensive 
>stray because I took her in to be fixed, and they did an ultrasound and 
>found babies! So we had to wait until her babies were born to get her
spayed. I was able to find good homes for all 4 of the babies.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
>Of Lorrie
>Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 2:13 PM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy
>
>On 10-25, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>
>> Ya, after Scotchy died following his rabies vaccination, they 
>> insisted on testing him for rabies because he had dug his claws into 
>> my arm hanging onto me for dear life when I took him back to the vet. 
>> They said they had to be sure he didn't have rabies in which case I 
>> would have been exposed. I had to pay $100 for them to send his head 
>> to Madison to be tested for rabies. They were really encouraging me 
>> to pay $700 to send his whole body down there.
>> Hello!! I already had a dead cat - if they wanted to send his whole 
>> body they could do it without my $700. (I paid the $100 and tried not 
>> to think about what was going to happen.)
>-
>How awful for you. I'm sorry you lost Scotchy and went thru that ordeal.
>Did he die due to a reaction from his rabies vaccination?
>
>Lorrie
>
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>
>
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Re: [Felvtalk] Cats as "property"

[Amani Oakley]

Lorrie

I completely agree with you, but the law often lags behind the views of 
society, and if legislators don't push forward these issues, the law can remain 
mired in the dark ages. As "property", the law only considers animals to be 
worth their replacement value, period. They don't "deserve respect" in the eyes 
of the law, because they are the equivalent of a lawn mower or chair. Of course 
this is totally out of step with the views of most Canadians and Americans, and 
other nationalities around the world, and there is the occasional judge who 
recognizes that fact, but you sure can't count on it when starting litigation. 
In the U.S., it is possible to initiate litigation for significant numbers, 
claiming punitive or aggravated damages, but I would guess that only in 
circumstances where a vet has been overtly and deliberately cruel would there 
be in the potential for someone to be successful in advancing those kinds of 
heads of damages.

There was a discussion on my legal chatline some time ago, regarding an 
unpleasant divorce. The husband had promised to look after the wife's cats 
until she found a place to stay. Instead, he took her cats in to the local 
shelter. The shelter refused to let the woman know who had adopted the cats, or 
if they even had been adopted. The lawyer representing the wife was asking the 
rest of us lawyers, if there was anything he could do in terms of going after 
the husband for this nasty behaviour, and sure enough, all the lawyers told him 
that there was no legal basis to pursue damages related to what he had done. I 
was the only one on my chatline saying that if MY husband EVER handed over my 
cats during a family dispute, then he had been run and just keep on running. 
But that's taking the law into my own hands, of course. The courts are unlikely 
to do much, nor do they have the legal grounds to do something, even if they 
wanted to do so.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
Sent: October-25-15 8:09 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cats as "property"

On 10-24, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> It is a shame that cats and dogs, any animal is "just property". 
> That reduces them to almost 'nothing in the law's eyes.  As property, 
> do they not have any value?  They deserve respect at the very least.  
> Any one tell me my cats are just property and not deserving of love, 
> respect and proper care had better be prepared to run as fast as he 
> can.  Someone once said he would use them for target practice.  I told 
> him he would be lying on the ground next to them.
-
I rescue abandoned cats and kittens and last year I found a calico kitten about 
8 or 9 weeks old. She was walking down the street right in the middle of town 
and this creep saw her at the same time and wanted to feed her to his "pet 
python". Well you can be sure he didn't get this poor baby. She is still with 
us, spayed, happy and loved.
-
Lorrie
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

[Amani Oakley]

The disclaimer is not bullet-proof, just like the Informed Consent form that 
you sign for medical procedures can be challenged. However, in the vet context, 
given how little value a court would place on a deceased cat, I would think it 
very unlikely that such a lawsuit would be viable.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley 
S
Sent: October-24-15 8:57 PM
To: felvtalk
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

In Texas, they were found to be a special kind of property like a 
photograph...but then that was rescinded...not sure what the status is now..but 
at any rate you do sign a disclaimer saying you will not sue so...

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Amani Oakley 
mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
I'm a lawyer. First, I can tell you that there wouldn’t be much of a lawsuit in 
the passing of an ill cat (or even a healthy one for that matter - they are 
just properly under the law) and second, writing down and signing that you take 
full responsibility in that circumstance, is an almost impossible hurdle to 
overcome. Vets in Canada don’t get sued very much at all, so I would be 
surprised if this was even a consideration for them here. I don’t know the 
circumstances in the U.S., but they are still considered property (chattel) so 
I doubt things would be much different in the legal sphere.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk 
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
 On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: October-24-15 3:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU 
SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.

 Maya D'Alessio mailto:mde...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
> potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in
> most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
> literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of a
> concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs that
> have side effects they are concerned about...but then they wanted to
> use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! I have a two
> vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and has
> been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was
> quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really
> interested in hearing me out
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio
> mailto:mrdal...@uwaterloo.ca>>
> wrote:
>
> > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
> > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but
> > in most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
> > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of
> > a concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs
> > that have side effects they are concerned about...but then they
> > wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia!
> > I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very
> > understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what I've
> > been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other
> > vet is not really interested in hearing me out
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley
> > mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Ardy – good for you!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back
> >> and tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a
> >> bad outcome if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be left 
> >> with “what-ifs”.
> >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well.
> >> This is MY cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not
> >> too interested in whatever weird perspectives they may have on what
> >> is politically okay or not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I
> >> think it IS all about athletic doping scandals).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Amani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* Felvtalk 
> >> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> >>  *On
> >> Behalf Of *Ardy Robertson
> >> *Sent:* October-23-15 7:57 PM
> >>
> >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but
> >> they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one
> >> talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I
> >> would like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a
> >> group, or talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk
> >> about my Tigger’s 

Re: [Felvtalk] OT; Panleuk/parvo/distemper was; Feline vaccines

[Amani Oakley]

Mmmm. Very interesting Margo. That makes sense to me now. I also think that the 
virus which attacks cat kidneys is what might have been responsible for the 
death of one of my babies a year ago. She went into the vets for a check up and 
came home with a serious UTI, as did a second cat I took in there. After I 
fought like crazy to overcome the illness with subcutaneous fluids, 
antibiotics, syringe feedings - the works - my smaller baby (Aphrodite) 
relapsed and this time her renal function tests (creatinine, urea) were quite 
elevated. We tried everything to bring down the creatinine levels, and were 
even considering dialysis, but she passed away.

Frustratingly, no one could adequately explain what had happened - even though 
we had been at the main vet speciality training and research facility in the 
area.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Margo
Sent: October-26-15 7:53 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] OT; Panleuk/parvo/distemper was; Feline vaccines



Kelley wrote; "My understanding of panleuk (distemper) and parvo are that they 
are 2 different things, that dog parvo may have mutated from panleuk but they 
are not the same.but I am not a vet so..."

Which is why I said "sort of".  Both Panleukopenia and Canine Parvo are 
parvoviridae. They are caused by different forms of parvovirus, and don't seem 
to cross species, but similar enough that the same test can be used to test for 
both.

Now I'm going to digress ;)

You've brought up another interesting and annoying bit of terminology ;) 
"Distemper" in dogs is caused by a paramyxovirus. "Distemper"  in cats is 
caused by a parvovirus.

There is a virus in the family paramyxovirus that affects cats, but it is 
thought to cause kidney problems, while the dog form is respiratory.

From Vetvine; "It is speculated that a feline nephrotropic virus, such as 
FmoPV, may trigger a ... Feline morbillivirus, a previously undescribed 
paramyxovirus ..."

It's really difficult to explain to some clients that no, your dog can't get 
"distemper" from your cat, or vice versa, but they can get similar diseases, 
which are in reality not at all the same thing.

Off soapbox...

Margo


-Original Message-
From: Kelley S
Sent: Oct 26, 2015 1:20 AM
To: felvtalk
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

My understanding of panleuk (distemper) and parvo are that they are 2 
different things, that dog parvo may have mutated from panleuk but they are not 
the same.but I am not a vet so...

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Amani Oakley  
wrote:

No – it’s primarily for red cell production. It is used for this in 
humans too, with severe cases of genetically-caused anemia. I found it worked 
on all three cell lines though, but it was the RBC’s/haematocrit (PCV) values 
that bounced back first. I think that because it has stimulating effects on the 
bone marrow, this is why it eventually perks up production of white cells and 
platelets as well.

 

As I mentioned in my summary of what happened to Zander, we first 
noticed that Winstrol was having a positive effect because his gums started to 
pink up.

 

Amani

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
Of Maya D'Alessio
Sent: October-24-15 7:36 AM
To: Margo; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

 

Question about the Winstrol - is it good for RBC too? or mostly just 
the WBC? Has anyone used it in concert with Epogen (Erythropoeitin)? Or used 
Epogen instead?

 

I'm concerned about the paleness of Merlot's gums. He still has decent 
energy though.

 

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[Felvtalk] OT; Panleuk/parvo/distemper was; Feline vaccines

[Margo]

Kelley wrote; "My understanding of panleuk (distemper) and parvo are that they 
are 2 different things, that dog parvo may have mutated from panleuk but they 
are not the same.but I am not a vet so..."

Which is why I said "sort of".  Both Panleukopenia and Canine Parvo are 
parvoviridae. They are caused by different forms of parvovirus, and don't seem 
to cross species, but similar enough that the same test can be used to test for 
both.

Now I'm going to digress ;)

You've brought up another interesting and annoying bit of terminology ;) 
"Distemper" in dogs is caused by a paramyxovirus. "Distemper"  in cats is 
caused by a parvovirus.

There is a virus in the family paramyxovirus that affects cats, but it is 
thought to cause kidney problems, while the dog form is respiratory.

From Vetvine; "It is speculated that a feline nephrotropic virus, such as 
FmoPV, may trigger a ... Feline morbillivirus, a previously undescribed 
paramyxovirus ..."

It's really difficult to explain to some clients that no, your dog can't get 
"distemper" from your cat, or vice versa, but they can get similar diseases, 
which are in reality not at all the same thing.

Off soapbox...

Margo


-Original Message-
From: Kelley S
Sent: Oct 26, 2015 1:20 AM
To: felvtalk
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

My understanding of panleuk (distemper) and parvo are that they are 2 
different things, that dog parvo may have mutated from panleuk but they are not 
the same.but I am not a vet so...

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Amani Oakley  
wrote:

No – it’s primarily for red cell production. It is used for this in 
humans too, with severe cases of genetically-caused anemia. I found it worked 
on all three cell lines though, but it was the RBC’s/haematocrit (PCV) values 
that bounced back first. I think that because it has stimulating effects on the 
bone marrow, this is why it eventually perks up production of white cells and 
platelets as well.

 

As I mentioned in my summary of what happened to Zander, we first 
noticed that Winstrol was having a positive effect because his gums started to 
pink up.

 

Amani

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
Of Maya D'Alessio
Sent: October-24-15 7:36 AM
To: Margo; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

 

Question about the Winstrol - is it good for RBC too? or mostly just 
the WBC? Has anyone used it in concert with Epogen (Erythropoeitin)? Or used 
Epogen instead?

 

I'm concerned about the paleness of Merlot's gums. He still has decent 
energy though.

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy

[Margo]

Is this all the same Vet? Are you in the US?

-Original Message-
>From: Ardy Robertson 
>Sent: Oct 25, 2015 10:16 PM
>To: felineres...@frontier.com, felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy
>
>Yes, he had the vaccination and quit eating/drinking so they gave him sub-cu
>fluids and put him on some pills. I read the side effects of the pills and
>it said it could cause convulsions in puppies but there had never been a
>recorded case of convulsions in cats. Scotchy had a convulsion and died. I
>told them that it must have been a side effect of the pills but they didn't
>think so. I believe it all started with the rabies vaccination. Now, I do
>not vaccinate my cats for rabies if they are going to be lifetime house
>cats. I had to get a stray cat vaccinated for rabies because I was getting
>her spayed and they would not spay until she was vaccinated. She turned into
>a very expensive stray because I took her in to be fixed, and they did an
>ultrasound and found babies! So we had to wait until her babies were born to
>get her spayed. I was able to find good homes for all 4 of the babies.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
>Lorrie
>Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 2:13 PM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy
>
>On 10-25, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>
>> Ya, after Scotchy died following his rabies vaccination, they insisted 
>> on testing him for rabies because he had dug his claws into my arm 
>> hanging onto me for dear life when I took him back to the vet. They 
>> said they had to be sure he didn't have rabies in which case I would 
>> have been exposed. I had to pay $100 for them to send his head to 
>> Madison to be tested for rabies. They were really encouraging me to 
>> pay $700 to send his whole body down there.
>> Hello!! I already had a dead cat - if they wanted to send his whole 
>> body they could do it without my $700. (I paid the $100 and tried not 
>> to think about what was going to happen.)
>-
>How awful for you. I'm sorry you lost Scotchy and went thru that ordeal.
>Did he die due to a reaction from his rabies vaccination?
>
>Lorrie
>
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>
>
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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

[Kelley S]

My response was in response to someone who seemed to be saying canine and
feline "parvo virus" are the same thing  Though I could have misunderstood.

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:53 AM, Amani Oakley 
wrote:

> They are not the same virus, but I don’t understand your point in response
> to my post. The leukemia virus in cats can cause:
>
>
>
> Weight Loss
>
> Fever
>
> Imunodeficiency and infections (from, among other things, reduction in
> WBC’s)
>
> Anemia
>
> Immune-mediated disease
>
> Reproductive problems
>
> Gastrointestinal problems
>
> Neurologic disease
>
> Platelet disorders
>
> Lymphadenopathy (enlarged lymph nodes)
>
> Cancer
>
> Respiratory and eye infections
>
> Oral disease
>
>
>
> As can be seen from this list, all three cell lines can be affected by the
> virus.
>
>
>
> This list comes from an article from peteducation.com.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Kelley S
> *Sent:* October-26-15 1:21 AM
> *To:* felvtalk
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol
> (Winstrol(R))
>
>
>
> My understanding of panleuk (distemper) and parvo are that they are 2
> different things, that dog parvo may have mutated from panleuk but they are
> not the same.but I am not a vet so...
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Amani Oakley 
> wrote:
>
> No – it’s primarily for red cell production. It is used for this in humans
> too, with severe cases of genetically-caused anemia. I found it worked on
> all three cell lines though, but it was the RBC’s/haematocrit (PCV) values
> that bounced back first. I think that because it has stimulating effects on
> the bone marrow, this is why it eventually perks up production of white
> cells and platelets as well.
>
>
>
> As I mentioned in my summary of what happened to Zander, we first noticed
> that Winstrol was having a positive effect because his gums started to pink
> up.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Maya D'Alessio
> *Sent:* October-24-15 7:36 AM
> *To:* Margo; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>
>
>
> Question about the Winstrol - is it good for RBC too? or mostly just the
> WBC? Has anyone used it in concert with Epogen (Erythropoeitin)? Or used
> Epogen instead?
>
>
>
> I'm concerned about the paleness of Merlot's gums. He still has decent
> energy though.
>
>
>
>
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