Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Amani Oakley]

Anne

None of this is your fault at all. I too was given no hope for my Zander. It is 
the reason I was so angry with the vet community when I stumbled upon Winstrol 
and found it worked. I was then so stunned to find out that I hadn’t just 
accidentally “discovered” something new. The vet I spoke with (who had been the 
internal medicine specialist looking after Zander and pressuring me to put him 
down – saying that I needed to consider his “quality of life”) surprised me by 
telling me that he knew about Winstrol and that I had gone “old school”. He 
told me that they used to use Winstrol “years back” but had stopped when a 
report had surfaced suggesting that it might cause liver damage.

Then, after having proof positive that the Winstrol had done this amazing thing 
with Zander and brought him back from the brink of death, still I encountered 
vets who were resistant to using Winstrol. I couldn’t understand it at all. 
They preferred to put a cat down than to even TRY the Winstrol. Thus my 
conclusion that Winstrol has been “black balled” because of its association 
with performance enhancement in athletes. Seriously, nothing else makes any 
sense. When a cat is dying, whether or not a vet believes that there may be 
side-effects to a medication, it makes no sense to withhold something that MAY 
be beneficial when the end result is certainly going to be bad.

Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart – the cause of his 
death at 7 years.

My experience is the reason I found this group and was determined to share my 
experience. I hoped that sharing my experience might mean that others may find 
that Winstrol is helpful for their cats as well, and I have since used it in a 
number of other situations of cats given no hope. Obviously, it is impossible 
to know if Sam might have been helped, but you clearly did everything you could 
and gave him every chance.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
annetbur...@aol.com
Sent: November-27-15 1:00 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.

I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.

I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them.

Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up.

I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.

Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive.

I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated.

I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Oh, Christine, I am so sorry.


You did all you could do, and wanted to give her every chance. I wish it could 
always work out that they never suffer for a second, but it just doesn't happen 
sometimes. I've been there too.
thank you, for responding. It is giving me peace, to hear from you and some 
other members. I wish this disease could be eradicated. among many others.
take care.
Anne



-Original Message-
From: Christine Dundas 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



Anne
First of all I'm very sorry for your loss.
I've been on both sides.  Just recently, I was dealing with FELV cat.  Very 
anemic.  I kept holding off on putting her to sleep, trying different things.  
Ruthie had been maintaining. then started to go downhill fast.  The morning she 
passed, we were going to take her in to be put to sleep.
she was in terrible respiratory distress.  Our Vet would come in later that 
morning.  30 mins before we were going to bring her in, she passed in my 
husband's arms.  
It was awful knowing that she suffered.
So you see, I feel guilty knowing we should have done it before she suffered.
There is no right way with this awful virus.
Christine 
On Nov 27, 2015 1:00 PM,   wrote:

Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive. 


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a micro 
chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am thinking 
that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested soon, at 
another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am 
worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the 
cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , searching, as 
to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping that my Domino is one of 
the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off (If I understand that 
process correctly).


I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The vets were 
not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for Sam. I do not always 
believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in this practice, but I also know 
that doubts are normal, when you have had to make this 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Thank you Marsha, for your kind reassurance and wisdom. I don't think Sam would 
have made it another day, actually, now that I realize it was severe anemia 
making him weak. I didn't think of that right off, but I  once treated a 
beloved cat with epogen, for kidney disease related non regenerative anemia, 
and I can recognize now what was going on with Sam. The white of his eyes 
conjunctiva had alarmed me, a few days earlier, but I didn't know why. now I 
remember. 
I appreciate your kind response, and hope that someday, this disease can be 
eliminated.


Anne


-Original Message-
From: Marsha 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



My condolences on your loss of Sam.   You gave him the best life you could, 
and you made a reasonable  decision in the end.  There is no guarantee for 
the treatments  some have tried, and by the time you researched each, found 
 someone who would work with you, and then ordered and received it,  it 
may have been too late anyway.  I think a "for sure"  treatment/cure for 
FeLV is many years away, if ever, because there  is noplace investing 
research money in it, especially since the  vaccine that is available has 
reduced the number of cases.  
  
  Marsha
  
  
  On 11/27/2015 12:00 PM, annetbur...@aol.com wrote:


Hello. Myname is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on 
   Wednesday, due to his having felv and being very ill.



I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to  let some 
furbabies go in the past, and I always have those  doubts, even though 
I know it was the right thing for them.  




I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed,  taken to vet, 
treated, and have found homes for some. I  rescued Sam and his brother 
Domino, when they were young  kittens, the babies of a feral/stray 
momma. An evil neighbor  trapped their mom, brother, and sister, and 
took them to  Animal friends in our town, where they were euthanized
  immediately... the animal warden made me aware of this when I  
called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 




Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl,  Roxie, have 
been my only ones for the past few years. Sam and  Dom are four years 
old. Sam was always sickly, with colds. the  vet thought it was 
probably feline herpes, and he was treated  for colds, and finally 
didn't get them anymore, though he  began to have issues ... 
stomatitis. it was getting harder and  harder to get it to clear up. 




I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months  old. I 
thought they had a felv shot at that time, but  Wednesday, I learned 
that they had not.




Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed  kitty :), 
but his mouth became very inflamed and  I took him  in to the vet. She 
gave him zenequin and prednisone. It wasn't  working, and he became 
worse, not eating much, and I took him  back. they then gave him 
fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was  to call back in two days. He 
became lethargic the day after  the shot.. hardly walking, eyes became 
bloodshot and running a  lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They  called me to say that they tested him and he was feline  
leukemia positive. 




I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was  anemic by 
this time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible.  not even standing 
by this point! I honestly could not imagine  him coming back from this 
point, and asked them if it was the  best thing to let him go. They 
said yes, that he was just  going to keep going down hill (he was 
already bottomed out, in  my opinion). So I went in, and held him while 
giving him  freedom from his pain and suffering. It is breaking my 
heart  and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I  
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 




I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet  store cat, 
who was abandoned by a relative who was supposed to  be caring for her. 
she had a micro chip and I was able to talk  to her owner who was away 
at college. I am thinking that Roxie  had had her vaccine for that. I 
will be having her tested  soon, at another vets, where she has a 
treatment plan. The  same for Domino, who I am worried about, although 
he has been  

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Marsha]

Amani, do you know of any references I can look at regarding FeLV effect 
on the heart?  Brock has restrictive cardiomyopathy, which results from 
scar tissue or protein deposits in the heart muscle.  The vet thought it 
could be congenital.  Are there any studies showing percentage of FeLV+ 
cats with heart damage?


Marsha

On 11/27/2015 12:53 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:


Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize 
completely with your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about 
Winstrol BEFORE Zander decompensated so badly. I think that because he 
did, the virus was allowed to continue attacking his body and left 
scarring on the heart – the cause of his death at 7 years.





___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Amani,


Thank you. I actually read quite a few of your posts about Winstrol. I am glad 
for you, and sweet Zander, that you found something to give him more time.. 
lots of love and living in that extra time, I am sure. 
I am sorry for your loss, though. Seven years just isn't enough, but Zander was 
blessed to have your care and dedication.


I am hoping that my other cats will test negative, but if they do not, I have a 
wonderful vet, at another practice, who will work with me, I believe with my 
heart that she will. Thank you for sharing your experience! It means the world 
to us, when we can keep our furbabies healthier. How sad that some vets are 
afraid, or reluctant, about the winstrol. I agree, that treating, even if side 
effects are not so good, is better than their dying without trying everything 
we can.


my best 
Anne


-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



Anne
 
None of this is your fault at all. I too was given no hope for my Zander. It is 
the reason I was so angry with the vet community when I stumbled upon Winstrol 
and found it worked. I was then so stunned to find out that I hadn’t just 
accidentally “discovered” something new. The vet I spoke with (who had been the 
internal medicine specialist looking after Zander and pressuring me to put him 
down – saying that I needed to consider his “quality of life”) surprised me by 
telling me that he knew about Winstrol and that I had gone “old school”. He 
told me that they used to use Winstrol “years back” but had stopped when a 
report had surfaced suggesting that it might cause liver damage.
 
Then, after having proof positive that the Winstrol had done this amazing thing 
with Zander and brought him back from the brink of death, still I encountered 
vets who were resistant to using Winstrol. I couldn’t understand it at all. 
They preferred to put a cat down than to even TRY the Winstrol. Thus my 
conclusion that Winstrol has been “black balled” because of its association 
with performance enhancement in athletes. Seriously, nothing else makes any 
sense. When a cat is dying, whether or not a vet believes that there may be 
side-effects to a medication, it makes no sense to withhold something that MAY 
be beneficial when the end result is certainly going to be bad.
 
Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart – the cause of his 
death at 7 years.
 
My experience is the reason I found this group and was determined to share my 
experience. I hoped that sharing my experience might mean that others may find 
that Winstrol is helpful for their cats as well, and I have since used it in a 
number of other situations of cats given no hope. Obviously, it is impossible 
to know if Sam might have been helped, but you clearly did everything you could 
and gave him every chance.
 
Amani
 
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of 
annetbur...@aol.com
Sent: November-27-15 1:00 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv
 
Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.

 

I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  

 

I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 

 

Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 

 

I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.

 

Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Marsha]

My condolences on your loss of Sam. You gave him the best life you 
could, and you made a reasonable decision in the end.  There is no 
guarantee for the treatments some have tried, and by the time you 
researched each, found someone who would work with you, and then ordered 
and received it, it may have been too late anyway.  I think a "for sure" 
treatment/cure for FeLV is many years away, if ever, because there is 
noplace investing research money in it, especially since the vaccine 
that is available has reduced the number of cases.


Marsha


On 11/27/2015 12:00 PM, annetbur...@aol.com wrote:
Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on 
Wednesday, due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some 
furbabies go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though 
I know it was the right thing for them.


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, 
treated, and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother 
Domino, when they were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray 
momma. An evil neighbor trapped their mom, brother, and sister, and 
took them to Animal friends in our town, where they were euthanized 
immediately... the animal warden made me aware of this when I called 
him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them.


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have 
been my only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years 
old. Sam was always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was 
probably feline herpes, and he was treated for colds, and finally 
didn't get them anymore, though he began to have issues ... 
stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to clear up.


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I 
thought they had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned 
that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), 
but his mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She 
gave him zenequin and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became 
worse, not eating much, and I took him back. they then gave him 
fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call back in two days. He 
became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, eyes became 
bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline 
leukemia positive.


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by 
this time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing 
by this point! I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this 
point, and asked them if it was the best thing to let him go. They 
said yes, that he was just going to keep going down hill (he was 
already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went in, and held him while 
giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is breaking my 
heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I see 
things online now, where people say it can be treated.


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, 
who was abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. 
she had a micro chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away 
at college. I am thinking that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I 
will be having her tested soon, at another vets, where she has a 
treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am worried about, although 
he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the cast, and a 
long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , 
searching, as to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping 
that my Domino is one of the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown 
it off (If I understand that process correctly).


I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The 
vets were not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for 
Sam. I do not always believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in 
this practice, but I also know that doubts are normal, when you have 
had to make this terrible choice, for your beloved furbaby.


any reassurances are welcome.
thank you,
anne



___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Dear Lance,


Thank you so very much. It means so much to me to have the input from those who 
understand the disease, and who also love their furbabies. 
I will have them tested, sooner than later, because every time I look at them 
now, I fear for them.


Thank you for the link. It was helpful and I will check it out more fully.
best wishes, 
anne



-Original Message-
From: Lance 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



Anne,


I’m sorry for your loss. Sam sounds adorable (we have a squirrel-tail, too). 
You did what you thought was best for him based on the advice of the vet. And 
that’s okay. It’s the best any of us can do. We all walk a fine line between 
wanting to give them every chance to rebound and wanting to prevent avoidable 
suffering.


It’s worth looking over the AAFP’s official paper on feline  retroviruses.


http://www.catvets.com/guidelines/practice-guidelines/retrovirus-management-guidelines


It’ll be good to get both Dom and Roxie tested. It’s unnerving to wait for it. 
Many of us have had cats we were certain had contracted FeLV through extensive 
contact with known positives, and tests later showed no infection in these 
“vulnerable” ones.


Perhaps some of these cats have latent infections that are unlikely to ever 
surface. Or, they just weren’t infected when overexposed to the virus, and 
they’re resistant.


I hope you get good news about both cats once you get them in for their tests. 


Best,


Lance



On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:00 PM, annetbur...@aol.com wrote:


Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive. 


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a micro 
chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am thinking 
that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested soon, at 
another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am 
worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the 
cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , searching, as 
to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping that my Domino is one of 
the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off (If I understand that 
process correctly).


I am so 

[Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive. 


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a micro 
chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am thinking 
that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested soon, at 
another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am 
worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the 
cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , searching, as 
to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping that my Domino is one of 
the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off (If I understand that 
process correctly).


I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The vets were 
not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for Sam. I do not always 
believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in this practice, but I also know 
that doubts are normal, when you have had to make this terrible choice, for 
your beloved furbaby.


any reassurances are welcome. 
thank you,
anne
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Christine Dundas]

Anne
First of all I'm very sorry for your loss.

I've been on both sides.  Just recently, I was dealing with FELV cat.  Very
anemic.  I kept holding off on putting her to sleep, trying different
things.  Ruthie had been maintaining. then started to go downhill fast.
The morning she passed, we were going to take her in to be put to sleep.

she was in terrible respiratory distress.  Our Vet would come in later that
morning.  30 mins before we were going to bring her in, she passed in my
husband's arms.

It was awful knowing that she suffered.

So you see, I feel guilty knowing we should have done it before she
suffered.
There is no right way with this awful virus.

Christine
On Nov 27, 2015 1:00 PM,  wrote:

> Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on
> Wednesday, due to his having felv and being very ill.
>
> I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some
> furbabies go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I
> know it was the right thing for them.
>
> I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet,
> treated, and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother
> Domino, when they were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An
> evil neighbor trapped their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to
> Animal friends in our town, where they were euthanized immediately... the
> animal warden made me aware of this when I called him, to talk about the
> neighbor trapping them.
>
> Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been
> my only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam
> was always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline
> herpes, and he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore,
> though he began to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and
> harder to get it to clear up.
>
> I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought
> they had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had
> not.
>
> Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but
> his mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him
> zenequin and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating
> much, and I took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol
> shot. I was to call back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the
> shot.. hardly walking, eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he
> was in trouble, and took him back in. They called me to say that they
> tested him and he was feline leukemia positive.
>
> I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this
> time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this
> point! I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and
> asked them if it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he
> was just going to keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my
> opinion). So I went in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain
> and suffering. It is breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do
> this prematurely I see things online now, where people say it can be
> treated.
>
> I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who
> was abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had
> a micro chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I
> am thinking that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her
> tested soon, at another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for
> Domino, who I am worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg,
> an infection in the cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to
> be re -casted.  he has always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have
> been reading , searching, as to whether some cats may not get it, and I am
> hoping that my Domino is one of the lucky ones who may have had it and
> thrown it off (If I understand that process correctly).
>
> I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The vets
> were not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for Sam. I do not
> always believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in this practice, but
> I also know that doubts are normal, when you have had to make this terrible
> choice, for your beloved furbaby.
>
> any reassurances are welcome.
> thank you,
> anne
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

I will definitely ask my vet, if my others should be positive too. I have found 
that often, we know things that some vets have no experience with. Some resent 
it, but some are humble and the animal is more important than their egos.
Anne



-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



 
Zander was just the most wonderful cat, Anne. My husband and I would have done 
anything at all for him. We loved him dearly and desperately and he loved us 
right back. We have been involved in rescuing strays for quite a while, and 
that sweet little boy was certainly one who made a huge mark on our lives.
 
We still ache for him. Our vets were happy to let us lead the charge on his 
care. My vet and another senior vet at Guelph Veterinary College, suggested – 
sort of joking but not completely – that I should write a paper on his 
recovery. I considered it, but I am so swamped at work, I never did. When he 
died, it took all the wind out of my sails.
 
I feel for your loss. The blame doesn’t lie with you but again, my frustration 
is that the vets should be at least offering Winstrol in a situation where 
there is profound anemia since it did wonders to stimulate red cell production 
with Zander, and I have seen it with other cats now. I remain unable to 
comprehend why the vet community would rather not tell us about this option, 
and allow us to have to accept death or euthanasia instead.
 
Amani
 
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of 
annetbur...@aol.com
Sent: November-27-15 2:03 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv
 
Amani,

 

Thank you. I actually read quite a few of your posts about Winstrol. I am glad 
for you, and sweet Zander, that you found something to give him more time.. 
lots of love and living in that extra time, I am sure. 

I am sorry for your loss, though. Seven years just isn't enough, but Zander was 
blessed to have your care and dedication.

 

I am hoping that my other cats will test negative, but if they do not, I have a 
wonderful vet, at another practice, who will work with me, I believe with my 
heart that she will. Thank you for sharing your experience! It means the world 
to us, when we can keep our furbabies healthier. How sad that some vets are 
afraid, or reluctant, about the winstrol. I agree, that treating, even if side 
effects are not so good, is better than their dying without trying everything 
we can.

 

my best 

Anne

-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv


Anne

 

None of this is your fault at all. I too was given no hope for my Zander. It is 
the reason I was so angry with the vet community when I stumbled upon Winstrol 
and found it worked. I was then so stunned to find out that I hadn’t just 
accidentally “discovered” something new. The vet I spoke with (who had been the 
internal medicine specialist looking after Zander and pressuring me to put him 
down – saying that I needed to consider his “quality of life”) surprised me by 
telling me that he knew about Winstrol and that I had gone “old school”. He 
told me that they used to use Winstrol “years back” but had stopped when a 
report had surfaced suggesting that it might cause liver damage.

 

Then, after having proof positive that the Winstrol had done this amazing thing 
with Zander and brought him back from the brink of death, still I encountered 
vets who were resistant to using Winstrol. I couldn’t understand it at all. 
They preferred to put a cat down than to even TRY the Winstrol. Thus my 
conclusion that Winstrol has been “black balled” because of its association 
with performance enhancement in athletes. Seriously, nothing else makes any 
sense. When a cat is dying, whether or not a vet believes that there may be 
side-effects to a medication, it makes no sense to withhold something that MAY 
be beneficial when the end result is certainly going to be bad.

 

Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart – the cause of his 
death at 7 years.

 

My experience is the reason I found this group and was determined to share my 
experience. I hoped that sharing my experience might mean that others may find 
that Winstrol is helpful for their cats as well, and I have since used it in a 
number of other situations of cats given no hope. Obviously, it is impossible 
to know if Sam might have been helped, but you clearly did 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Lance]

Anne,

I’m sorry for your loss. Sam sounds adorable (we have a squirrel-tail, too). 
You did what you thought was best for him based on the advice of the vet. And 
that’s okay. It’s the best any of us can do. We all walk a fine line between 
wanting to give them every chance to rebound and wanting to prevent avoidable 
suffering.

It’s worth looking over the AAFP’s official paper on feline  retroviruses.

http://www.catvets.com/guidelines/practice-guidelines/retrovirus-management-guidelines

It’ll be good to get both Dom and Roxie tested. It’s unnerving to wait for it. 
Many of us have had cats we were certain had contracted FeLV through extensive 
contact with known positives, and tests later showed no infection in these 
“vulnerable” ones.

Perhaps some of these cats have latent infections that are unlikely to ever 
surface. Or, they just weren’t infected when overexposed to the virus, and 
they’re resistant.

I hope you get good news about both cats once you get them in for their tests. 

Best,

Lance

> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:00 PM, annetbur...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on 
> Wednesday, due to his having felv and being very ill.
> 
> I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some 
> furbabies go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know 
> it was the right thing for them.  
> 
> I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, 
> treated, and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, 
> when they were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil 
> neighbor trapped their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal 
> friends in our town, where they were euthanized immediately... the animal 
> warden made me aware of this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor 
> trapping them. 
> 
> Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
> only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
> always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
> he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he 
> began to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get 
> it to clear up. 
> 
> I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought 
> they had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.
> 
> Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
> mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him 
> zenequin and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating 
> much, and I took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. 
> I was to call back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. 
> hardly walking, eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in 
> trouble, and took him back in. They called me to say that they tested him and 
> he was feline leukemia positive. 
> 
> I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
> time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this 
> point! I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and 
> asked them if it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was 
> just going to keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my 
> opinion). So I went in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain 
> and suffering. It is breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do 
> this prematurely I see things online now, where people say it can be 
> treated. 
> 
> I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
> abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a 
> micro chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am 
> thinking that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested 
> soon, at another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, 
> who I am worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an 
> infection in the cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re 
> -casted.  he has always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been 
> reading , searching, as to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping 
> that my Domino is one of the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off 
> (If I understand that process correctly).
> 
> I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The vets were 
> not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for Sam. I do not always 
> believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in this practice, but I also 
> know that doubts are normal, when you have had to make this terrible choice, 
> for your beloved furbaby.
> 
> any reassurances are welcome. 
> thank you,
> anne
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Amani Oakley]

Zander was just the most wonderful cat, Anne. My husband and I would have done 
anything at all for him. We loved him dearly and desperately and he loved us 
right back. We have been involved in rescuing strays for quite a while, and 
that sweet little boy was certainly one who made a huge mark on our lives.

We still ache for him. Our vets were happy to let us lead the charge on his 
care. My vet and another senior vet at Guelph Veterinary College, suggested – 
sort of joking but not completely – that I should write a paper on his 
recovery. I considered it, but I am so swamped at work, I never did. When he 
died, it took all the wind out of my sails.

I feel for your loss. The blame doesn’t lie with you but again, my frustration 
is that the vets should be at least offering Winstrol in a situation where 
there is profound anemia since it did wonders to stimulate red cell production 
with Zander, and I have seen it with other cats now. I remain unable to 
comprehend why the vet community would rather not tell us about this option, 
and allow us to have to accept death or euthanasia instead.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
annetbur...@aol.com
Sent: November-27-15 2:03 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

Amani,

Thank you. I actually read quite a few of your posts about Winstrol. I am glad 
for you, and sweet Zander, that you found something to give him more time.. 
lots of love and living in that extra time, I am sure.
I am sorry for your loss, though. Seven years just isn't enough, but Zander was 
blessed to have your care and dedication.

I am hoping that my other cats will test negative, but if they do not, I have a 
wonderful vet, at another practice, who will work with me, I believe with my 
heart that she will. Thank you for sharing your experience! It means the world 
to us, when we can keep our furbabies healthier. How sad that some vets are 
afraid, or reluctant, about the winstrol. I agree, that treating, even if side 
effects are not so good, is better than their dying without trying everything 
we can.

my best
Anne
-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley >
To: felvtalk >
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv
Anne

None of this is your fault at all. I too was given no hope for my Zander. It is 
the reason I was so angry with the vet community when I stumbled upon Winstrol 
and found it worked. I was then so stunned to find out that I hadn’t just 
accidentally “discovered” something new. The vet I spoke with (who had been the 
internal medicine specialist looking after Zander and pressuring me to put him 
down – saying that I needed to consider his “quality of life”) surprised me by 
telling me that he knew about Winstrol and that I had gone “old school”. He 
told me that they used to use Winstrol “years back” but had stopped when a 
report had surfaced suggesting that it might cause liver damage.

Then, after having proof positive that the Winstrol had done this amazing thing 
with Zander and brought him back from the brink of death, still I encountered 
vets who were resistant to using Winstrol. I couldn’t understand it at all. 
They preferred to put a cat down than to even TRY the Winstrol. Thus my 
conclusion that Winstrol has been “black balled” because of its association 
with performance enhancement in athletes. Seriously, nothing else makes any 
sense. When a cat is dying, whether or not a vet believes that there may be 
side-effects to a medication, it makes no sense to withhold something that MAY 
be beneficial when the end result is certainly going to be bad.

Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart – the cause of his 
death at 7 years.

My experience is the reason I found this group and was determined to share my 
experience. I hoped that sharing my experience might mean that others may find 
that Winstrol is helpful for their cats as well, and I have since used it in a 
number of other situations of cats given no hope. Obviously, it is impossible 
to know if Sam might have been helped, but you clearly did everything you could 
and gave him every chance.

Amani

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Amani Oakley]

Marsha

At 2 mg a day, a person would need a whole lot of vet pills to use on 
themselves. The normal dose for humans is 10 to 12 mg a day, and athletes use 
it at way higher levels to enhance performance. In any event, I would think 
that a vet could reassure themselves by just limiting the number of pills given 
over to a client to 50 or so at a time unless the vet knows the client very 
well, as mine do. Winstrol would hardly be the only vet medication that could 
be abused or sold if someone was of a mind to do that.

Zander was the only FeLV cat I have had, that I knew about anyway. I wouldn't 
be so adamant about the Winstrol if it hadn't been for my serial blood testing 
throughout the time I was treating Zander, first with other treatments and then 
with Winstrol. The Winstrol was absolutely tied to his steady rise in red cell, 
haematocrit, platelets, and retic count and whenever I stopped for a time, his 
results would tumble.

However, I have mentioned on a few occasions that I used the Winstrol on a cat 
with nasal sarcoma who was 16. Again, I had tried a number of other medications 
and treatments for her to keep her eating and to keep the mucous being 
profusely produced by the sarcoma, under control. She underwent radiation 
therapy, and the vet who was looking after her at the time was amazed at how 
well the Winstrol worked to keep her eating, and keep the mucous production 
reduced, and commented that the cats are often lost because of loss of 
appetite, both with this condition and with the radiation therapy. She lived 
for 3 more years with the sarcoma.

I used it on a kitten who had come from a feral colony, who was very very ill - 
running eyes, nose, incredibly high temperature, not eating, laboured 
breathing, swollen belly, with a number of others from her colony being 
diagnosed with FIP and dying. I had her on a number of things for a while, like 
antibiotics, prednisolone, fluid therapy, etc. and was not getting any good 
response until I added the Winstrol. Within days, she began to eat, play, her 
nose and eyes stopped running, her belly deflated and she was left with some 
laboured breathing but nothing else.

I used it on a kitten who had been given to me because he was considered to 
have a touch of the "wobbles" - thought to maybe be some cerebellar hypoplasia. 
Instead of that, I noted that his anal sphincter didn't seem to be working 
properly - it was "relaxed" and stool not properly formed and "falling out" and 
problems urinating (wrong places, but also retention and crying when he went 
into the litter box). In humans, these symptoms are consistent with cauda 
equina syndrome, which is the result of damage to the nerves in the lower part 
of the spine. Then my husband and I noticed that he carried his tail straight 
out and didn't seem to be able to lift it straight up and there was a large 
bump at the base of his tail. I took him in to the vet - surprise - there was 
nothing they could recommend because the apparent spinal injury wasn't 
significant enough to show on xray. I put him on Winstrol, and a very short 
time after that (2-3 weeks) his anal sphincter tightened up and his urinary 
control improved. We thought he was over whatever problem there was but we 
found that he would occasionally do something that would seem to reinjure his 
spine - eg - trying to jump on the table and missing - and then the symptoms 
come back. Another few weeks of Winstrol clears him right up. We took him in 
for an MRI and they found a very very small lesion in the spinal column, 
exactly where I told them to look. They are unable to tell right now if the 
lesion is potentially cancerous or is the remains of healed injury, and they 
have asked us to videotape him the next time he starts having neurological 
symptoms (which include an almost drunken walk at his back end) and to NOT put 
him on the Winstrol so they can assess the lesion when it is at its worst. In 
the meantime, he is doing just fine. I wonder what would have happened to this 
kitten had he landed in almost anyone else's house - he peed on our bed about 2 
weeks after we got him, and just kept peeing on the bed and on the couch, etc.  
All the while, I had the distinct feeling he didn't WANT to pee there (crazy, 
right??! Try telling the vet that you have the FEELING that the cat DOESN'T 
WANT to pee in the wrong place).

I have used Winstrol in a few other situations where a cat hasn't been feeling 
well or eating well, and I have gotten good responses every time.

I didn't get any response from the use of Winstrol on one of my cats who seemed 
to contract some kind of virus from the vet's office, and developed kidney 
failure. Despite being prepared to dialyse or try paracentesis, she passed 
away. Very very recently, I came across an article that described a newly 
discovered virus named feline morbillivirus, which causes tubulointerstitial 
nephritis in cats, which results in potentially fatal kidney disease. 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Amani Oakley]

Marsha

This is same sort of thing that Zander eventually died from at age 7. In his 
case, it was dilated cardiomyopathy, but the vet also commented on the 
extensive scar tissue in the heart.

Someone else on the chatline mentioned their FeLV cat died from cardiomyopathy.

Researching this on line (like so many cat-related conditions) shows, once 
again, how little is known about cats since almost every site you go to just 
says that most causes of heart disease in cats is unknown. I haven't seen a 
study, such as the one you are looking for, linking FeLV with heart issues. 
However, there is information regarding the fact that when the FeLV causes 
anemia, this can have an effect on the heart rhythm, heart sounds, heart 
effectiveness, etc. but of course, none of this means that there is necessarily 
a physical effect on the heart - other than the "thinner" blood causing the 
heart to not beat properly or need to beat faster to distribute blood which is 
reduced in its ability to distribute oxygen.


I was able to find one cite 
http://www.petplace.com/article/cats/diseases-conditions-of-cats/heart-blood-vessels/dilated-cardiomyopathy-in-cats-dcm
 which set out some causes of dilated cardiomyopathy and include:



Myocarditis (inflammation of the myocardium)

Severe global myocardial ischemia (lack of blood supply to the heart - what 
Zander had during his FeLV crisis)


It's always possible that the condition is genetic, but given the fact that 
FeLV can cause such a wide range of conditions such as lymphoma, etc., in the 
body, I would bet there is a connection with the scar tissue in the heart as 
well, particularly when one of the possible causes is inflammation of the heart 
muscle.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marsha
Sent: November-27-15 1:59 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

Amani, do you know of any references I can look at regarding FeLV effect on the 
heart?  Brock has restrictive cardiomyopathy, which results from scar tissue or 
protein deposits in the heart muscle.  The vet thought it could be congenital.  
Are there any studies showing percentage of FeLV+ cats with heart damage?

Marsha

On 11/27/2015 12:53 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart - the cause of his 
death at 7 years.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Marsha]

How high was Aphrodite's creatinine level?  Peaches' WBC had been scary 
low 5 days before I took her in for support over the weekend.  Tried 
clavamox and orbax for preventive reasons to tide her over the low 
point, but both made her feel ill.  They gave her enrofloxacin at the 
university, in case a kidney infection had taken hold, but no way to 
know.  I considered a necropsy of at least her kidneys, but opted out 
for a couple of reasons: 1) they wouldn't sew her back up, and I would 
not be allowed to directly pick up her remains, the cremation place 
would have to pick them up. I would have no say in asking that they 
treat her remains with respect while doing the necropsy.;  2) the 
information would be for me only, not put in a database anywhere where 
it could help others or expand the body of knowledge of outcomes of her 
very rare multiple myeloma.  If it's not part of an official study, they 
don't care.  That really irks me.  That should be a given, that they 
would want to find out what happened.  There is very little literature 
on multiple myeloma in cats, and its treatments and outcomes.  DUH, I 
wonder why.  NOT. Here they have this perfect opportunity to gain 
valuable knowledge, but there's no money attached, so they are done.


Marsha

On 11/27/2015 8:09 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:


Marsha

At 2 mg a day, a person would need a whole lot of vet pills to use on 
themselves. The normal dose for humans is 10 to 12 mg a day, and 
athletes use it at way higher levels to enhance performance. In any 
event, I would think that a vet could reassure themselves by just 
limiting the number of pills given over to a client to 50 or so at a 
time unless the vet knows the client very well, as mine do. Winstrol 
would hardly be the only vet medication that could be abused or sold 
if someone was of a mind to do that.


Zander was the only FeLV cat I have had, that I knew about anyway. I 
wouldn’t be so adamant about the Winstrol if it hadn’t been for my 
serial blood testing throughout the time I was treating Zander, first 
with other treatments and then with Winstrol. The Winstrol was 
absolutely tied to his steady rise in red cell, haematocrit, 
platelets, and retic count and whenever I stopped for a time, his 
results would tumble.


However, I have mentioned on a few occasions that I used the Winstrol 
on a cat with nasal sarcoma who was 16. Again, I had tried a number of 
other medications and treatments for her to keep her eating and to 
keep the mucous being profusely produced by the sarcoma, under 
control. She underwent radiation therapy, and the vet who was looking 
after her at the time was amazed at how well the Winstrol worked to 
keep her eating, and keep the mucous production reduced, and commented 
that the cats are often lost because of loss of appetite, both with 
this condition and with the radiation therapy. She lived for 3 more 
years with the sarcoma.


I used it on a kitten who had come from a feral colony, who was very 
very ill – running eyes, nose, incredibly high temperature, not 
eating, laboured breathing, swollen belly, with a number of others 
from her colony being diagnosed with FIP and dying. I had her on a 
number of things for a while, like antibiotics, prednisolone, fluid 
therapy, etc. and was not getting any good response until I added the 
Winstrol. Within days, she began to eat, play, her nose and eyes 
stopped running, her belly deflated and she was left with some 
laboured breathing but nothing else.


I used it on a kitten who had been given to me because he was 
considered to have a touch of the “wobbles” – thought to maybe be some 
cerebellar hypoplasia. Instead of that, I noted that his anal 
sphincter didn’t seem to be working properly – it was “relaxed” and 
stool not properly formed and “falling out” and problems urinating 
(wrong places, but also retention and crying when he went into the 
litter box). In humans, these symptoms are consistent with cauda 
equina syndrome, which is the result of damage to the nerves in the 
lower part of the spine. Then my husband and I noticed that he carried 
his tail straight out and didn’t seem to be able to lift it straight 
up and there was a large bump at the base of his tail. I took him in 
to the vet – surprise – there was nothing they could recommend because 
the apparent spinal injury wasn’t significant enough to show on xray. 
I put him on Winstrol, and a very short time after that (2-3 weeks) 
his anal sphincter tightened up and his urinary control improved. We 
thought he was over whatever problem there was but we found that he 
would occasionally do something that would seem to reinjure his spine 
– eg – trying to jump on the table and missing – and then the symptoms 
come back. Another few weeks of Winstrol clears him right up. We took 
him in for an MRI and they found a very very small lesion in the 
spinal column, exactly where I told them to look. They are unable to 
tell right now if the lesion is 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Amani Oakley]

Perhaps but that wasn't my experience, and if you go on line, you find others 
who find it extremely helpful for chronic kidney disease cases, just like you 
mentioned. But Marsha, if the concern is that the results were "lackluster", 
then what could possibly be the explanation for the pure REFUSAL to prescribe 
it? Obviously, it that was all there was to it, the vet could just say, "Well, 
I don't think you're going to get too far with this stuff, but it's up to you 
if you want to give it a try". Given that the option people often get with FeLV 
cats is zilch, then why not mention that it is a possibility, though not a 
great one. When I am sitting, balling my eyes out and the vet is telling me, 
"so sorry, there is nothing at all that can help" and "put him down for his own 
sake - you wouldn't want him to suffer", then I certainly expect that I should 
have been told about Winstrol. It's not like we have a lot of options with 
FeLV. None of the options are particularly great or can be relied on regularly, 
and most of the options are way way more expensive than the Winstrol.

Moreover, I find it hard to believe they got lackluster results. I have used 
this stuff now in more hard luck situations than you would believe, and I would 
say that in about 80% of the circumstances, I have had a good to an excellent 
result. Sometimes, I get no result.

I find it hard to believe that I just happened to be lucky.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marsha
Sent: November-27-15 3:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

Maybe part of it is because of lackluster results for the conditions they 
*were* using it for.  I found 2 "old school" vets in my area that had used it a 
couple of decades ago, then kind of forgot it existed after it got harder to 
find.  One said she forgot about it because it didn't make that big of an 
impression on her.  She had used it for anemia in CKD cats, I think.

Marsha

On 11/27/2015 1:21 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:

I feel for your loss. The blame doesn't lie with you but again, my frustration 
is that the vets should be at least offering Winstrol in a situation where 
there is profound anemia since it did wonders to stimulate red cell production 
with Zander, and I have seen it with other cats now. I remain unable to 
comprehend why the vet community would rather not tell us about this option, 
and allow us to have to accept death or euthanasia instead.

Amani


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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Marsha]

Amani, I think you already hit on the reasons for refusal earlier - the 
report about potential liver damage, but probably the bigger reason is 
that humans try to get hold of it for themselves to use illicitly.


What percentage of your cats that got Winstrol were FeLV+, and how many 
got it for other conditions?


It's too late for Peaches (FeLV negative with multiple myeloma), my 
little princess angel that passed on Sunday.  I had considered it for 
her anemia, but the oncologist suggested waiting until we knew how much 
she would recover just from coming off chemo. Otherwise, we wouldn't 
know what Winstrol did and what changing her treatment did.  But even 
though her bone marrow was starting to bounce back a little, her kidneys 
went into acute failure, with BUN and creatinine so high their machine 
had difficulty giving an accurate reading, and they sent it to another 
lab on campus.  She was on fluids and a feeding tube over the weekend, 
and they were being cautious, but the fluids still began to put too much 
strain on her heart so they had to stop the fluids.  She was such a good 
girl, they didn't even have an e-collar on her.  Unless they took it off 
for visiting purposes...but I think I asked someone, and they told me 
she was doing OK without one.


Marsha

On 11/27/2015 2:14 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:


Perhaps but that wasn’t my experience, and if you go on line, you find 
others who find it extremely helpful for chronic kidney disease cases, 
just like you mentioned. But Marsha, if the concern is that the 
results were “lackluster”, then what could possibly be the explanation 
for the pure REFUSAL to prescribe it? Obviously, it that was all there 
was to it, the vet could just say, “Well, I don’t think you’re going 
to get too far with this stuff, but it’s up to you if you want to give 
it a try”. Given that the option people often get with FeLV cats is 
zilch, then why not mention that it is a possibility, though not a 
great one. When I am sitting, balling my eyes out and the vet is 
telling me, “so sorry, there is nothing at all that can help” and “put 
him down for his own sake – you wouldn’t want him to suffer”, then I 
certainly expect that I should have been told about Winstrol. It’s not 
like we have a lot of options with FeLV. None of the options are 
particularly great or can be relied on regularly, and most of the 
options are way way more expensive than the Winstrol.


Moreover, I find it hard to believe they got lackluster results. I 
have used this stuff now in more hard luck situations than you would 
believe, and I would say that in about 80% of the circumstances, I 
have had a good to an excellent result. Sometimes, I get no result.


I find it hard to believe that I just happened to be lucky.

Amani

*From:*Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On 
Behalf Of *Marsha

*Sent:* November-27-15 3:04 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

Maybe part of it is because of lackluster results for the conditions 
they *were* using it for.  I found 2 "old school" vets in my area that 
had used it a couple of decades ago, then kind of forgot it existed 
after it got harder to find.  One said she forgot about it because it 
didn't make that big of an impression on her.  She had used it for 
anemia in CKD cats, I think.


Marsha



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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Marsha]

Maybe part of it is because of lackluster results for the conditions 
they *were* using it for.  I found 2 "old school" vets in my area that 
had used it a couple of decades ago, then kind of forgot it existed 
after it got harder to find.  One said she forgot about it because it 
didn't make that big of an impression on her.  She had used it for 
anemia in CKD cats, I think.


Marsha

On 11/27/2015 1:21 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:


I feel for your loss. The blame doesn’t lie with you but again, my 
frustration is that the vets should be at least offering Winstrol in a 
situation where there is profound anemia since it did wonders to 
stimulate red cell production with Zander, and I have seen it with 
other cats now. I remain unable to comprehend why the vet community 
would rather not tell us about this option, and allow us to have to 
accept death or euthanasia instead.


Amani




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