Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[dlgegg]

I think I asked this before, but hospital messed with my head.  Is Winstrol 
something you can get ahead of time and store either in the fridge or room 
temperature?  would be nice to have on hand so could start it asap when needed.


 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> Sherri
> 
> I wouldn't recommend you run the liver enzymes. If they rise (and they often 
> do) it will cause your vet to try to get you to stop the Winstrol.
> 
> I was running a full biochemistry profile along with the full haematology 
> profile on Zander. So tests like ALP, AST, ALT, TBili and DBili are 
> indicators of liver function. With Zander, they rose sharply, but there was 
> simply no other option but to continue. I had done all my research, tried out 
> the two most likely new and promising therapies (LTCI and Interferon) and 
> they were not at all (I mean AT ALL) helpful. So, discontinuing the Winstrol 
> meant certain death for Zander. I am so glad I ignored the liver enzymes. 
> They settled down on their own, and Zander never had any liver problems after 
> almost a FULL YEAR on Winstrol.
> 
> I had another cat with a nasal sarcoma, who was 16 when she got the sarcoma 
> and a tiny skinny thing. I put her on Winstrol because again, there were no 
> really good options. Again, I had a great response, with it upping her 
> appetite dramatically, and keeping the sarcoma in a shrunken state with far 
> less discharge and swelling than prior to the administration of the Winstrol. 
> Her liver enzymes went through the roof and the vet (a very good friend of 
> mine who is the head of vet oncology and a brilliant man) knowing how I feel 
> about Winstrol, just asked if I would agree to discontinue the Winstrol to 
> see if the liver enzymes would reduce. (Very gently. He knew he was on thin 
> ice.)  I did, for a few weeks, then put her back on. She lived to age 19 with 
> that sarcoma, because the Winstrol kept her eating, and happy and strong.
> 
> One of the smart folks on this chatline, recently sent me what was likely the 
> stupid vet research publication which likely started the whole "liver" scare. 
> Look it up because I cannot attach it to this email as it will not go 
> through. The title is, "Hepatotoxicity of stanozolol in cats" by Kenneth R. 
> Harkin, et. al. in JAVMA, Vol. 217, No. 5, September 1, 2000. Bizarrely, in 
> this study, the authors put the cats on a "loading dose" of 25 mg 
> intramuscularly, then 2 mg a day by mouth, every 12 hours. So, just for 
> starters, you see that for some reason, they started the cats on TEN TIMES 
> the normal dose, and them kept them on at least TWO TIMES the normal dose for 
> the rest of the study. Even then, here are some telltale pieces of 
> information:
> 
> 
> 1.  They start the paper by discussing abuse of stanozolol "by young male 
> athletes" - one has to wonder what the relevance might be.
> 
> 2.  They state, that, "these results (of hepatotoxicity in cats) were 
> unexpected, because to our knowledge, stanozolol has not been reported to be 
> hepatotoxic in cats".
> 
> Despite overloading the cats with bizarrely high levels of stanozolol, they 
> reported that most of the signs of hepatotoxicity (that being the high liver 
> enzymes) disappeared after the stanozolol was discontinued.
> 
> The levels of stanozolol used on these cats were the same as a previous study 
> which found stanozolol effective and helpful in treating sled dogs. THEY USED 
> THE SAME DOSE IN CATS AS THEY DID FOR THE SLED DOGS!!
> 
> That's like saying that a study where people were given the equivalent of 20 
> aspirin intramuscularly, and then given double the recommended aspirin dose 
> daily for several weeks, proves that aspirin is bad for you. Or how about 
> giving a group of people the same dose of medication as they give to treat a 
> rhinoceros, and deciding that the medication is toxic to humans, based on 
> that study?
> 
> I don't know what the purpose of this study was, but I am disappointed that 
> so many vets just "heard" that Winstrol causes liver damage, but never 
> bothered to actually read the literature. Anyone reading this paper, with any 
> modicum of scientific training, would be able to spot the serious problems 
> with it. The fact that it was coupled with the preamble regarding the abuse 
> of athletes using steroids, just seems to suggest that the study was intended 
> to bury Winstrol, so no one could get their hands on it - including those 
> cheating athletes. (I keep saying, if Winstrol is NOT effective, then why are 
> athletes who take it, considered to be cheating)
> 
> I gave the paper recently to my vet, who is very much in my corner and 
> thrilled with my many successes with my cats. She was very appreciative and 
> told me she would read it. That is what a good vet looks like.
> 
> (TIME TO CLIMB OFF THE SOAP BOX AGAIN.)
> 
> Amani
> 
> 
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Sherri Godschalk
> Sent: S

[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Amani Oakley]

Sherri

I wouldn't recommend you run the liver enzymes. If they rise (and they often 
do) it will cause your vet to try to get you to stop the Winstrol.

I was running a full biochemistry profile along with the full haematology 
profile on Zander. So tests like ALP, AST, ALT, TBili and DBili are indicators 
of liver function. With Zander, they rose sharply, but there was simply no 
other option but to continue. I had done all my research, tried out the two 
most likely new and promising therapies (LTCI and Interferon) and they were not 
at all (I mean AT ALL) helpful. So, discontinuing the Winstrol meant certain 
death for Zander. I am so glad I ignored the liver enzymes. They settled down 
on their own, and Zander never had any liver problems after almost a FULL YEAR 
on Winstrol.

I had another cat with a nasal sarcoma, who was 16 when she got the sarcoma and 
a tiny skinny thing. I put her on Winstrol because again, there were no really 
good options. Again, I had a great response, with it upping her appetite 
dramatically, and keeping the sarcoma in a shrunken state with far less 
discharge and swelling than prior to the administration of the Winstrol. Her 
liver enzymes went through the roof and the vet (a very good friend of mine who 
is the head of vet oncology and a brilliant man) knowing how I feel about 
Winstrol, just asked if I would agree to discontinue the Winstrol to see if the 
liver enzymes would reduce. (Very gently. He knew he was on thin ice.)  I did, 
for a few weeks, then put her back on. She lived to age 19 with that sarcoma, 
because the Winstrol kept her eating, and happy and strong.

One of the smart folks on this chatline, recently sent me what was likely the 
stupid vet research publication which likely started the whole "liver" scare. 
Look it up because I cannot attach it to this email as it will not go through. 
The title is, "Hepatotoxicity of stanozolol in cats" by Kenneth R. Harkin, et. 
al. in JAVMA, Vol. 217, No. 5, September 1, 2000. Bizarrely, in this study, the 
authors put the cats on a "loading dose" of 25 mg intramuscularly, then 2 mg a 
day by mouth, every 12 hours. So, just for starters, you see that for some 
reason, they started the cats on TEN TIMES the normal dose, and them kept them 
on at least TWO TIMES the normal dose for the rest of the study. Even then, 
here are some telltale pieces of information:


1.  They start the paper by discussing abuse of stanozolol "by young male 
athletes" - one has to wonder what the relevance might be.

2.  They state, that, "these results (of hepatotoxicity in cats) were 
unexpected, because to our knowledge, stanozolol has not been reported to be 
hepatotoxic in cats".

Despite overloading the cats with bizarrely high levels of stanozolol, they 
reported that most of the signs of hepatotoxicity (that being the high liver 
enzymes) disappeared after the stanozolol was discontinued.

The levels of stanozolol used on these cats were the same as a previous study 
which found stanozolol effective and helpful in treating sled dogs. THEY USED 
THE SAME DOSE IN CATS AS THEY DID FOR THE SLED DOGS!!

That's like saying that a study where people were given the equivalent of 20 
aspirin intramuscularly, and then given double the recommended aspirin dose 
daily for several weeks, proves that aspirin is bad for you. Or how about 
giving a group of people the same dose of medication as they give to treat a 
rhinoceros, and deciding that the medication is toxic to humans, based on that 
study?

I don't know what the purpose of this study was, but I am disappointed that so 
many vets just "heard" that Winstrol causes liver damage, but never bothered to 
actually read the literature. Anyone reading this paper, with any modicum of 
scientific training, would be able to spot the serious problems with it. The 
fact that it was coupled with the preamble regarding the abuse of athletes 
using steroids, just seems to suggest that the study was intended to bury 
Winstrol, so no one could get their hands on it - including those cheating 
athletes. (I keep saying, if Winstrol is NOT effective, then why are athletes 
who take it, considered to be cheating)

I gave the paper recently to my vet, who is very much in my corner and thrilled 
with my many successes with my cats. She was very appreciative and told me she 
would read it. That is what a good vet looks like.

(TIME TO CLIMB OFF THE SOAP BOX AGAIN.)

Amani



From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri 
Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 7:54 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Oh my gosh Amani! What an incredible story. The chances that he could survive 
from where he was. I cannot imagine the joy you felt when you saw his gums were 
pink. What a long road for the both of you. Says so much about you. So your vet 
knew of the treatment but w

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Sherri Godschalk]

Oh my gosh Amani! What an incredible story. The chances that he could
survive from where he was. I cannot imagine the joy you felt when you saw
his gums were pink. What a long road for the both of you. Says so much about
you. So your vet knew of the treatment but was afraid of it. Hopefully the
next FELV cat they saw in their office, they remembered the success that you
experienced and prescribed accordingly. How lucky that you had the knowledge
you did, the confidence to respectfully challenge the ones telling you there
was no hope. Zander was one lucky kitty.

I can¹t say that I don¹t worry about the side effects of the drugs Bogey is
taking. But I understand that he has to survive THIS first. I am not so sure
that my vet has anything against using Doxycicline as much as he just
doesn¹t see a need for it yet. What test was run on Zander to check the
liver enzymes you mentioned?

Getting the message out about this drug and it¹s positive response in FELV
anemic cats is something I truly hope happens. When my vet gave me this pill
for Bogey, I had no idea what it was. He told me it was a steroid that body
builders take. I ran home, gave the cat the pill, sat down at my computer
and Googled ³Felv Stanzolol² and this site came up. I have written a bit
about my experience thus far here, and on a Facebook page for FIV and FELV
cats. But it makes me feel bad for the people that read it and get hopeful,
go to their vets and get the ³doesn¹t help², ³bad for livers² or just ³No².
I know it is very early in Bogey¹s treatment and she may not continue to get
better with just what she is taking. But I am glad for every moment that I
have with her. I hope I have hundreds and thousands more.

Thanks for sharing the story about Zander. Amazing.





From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:11 PM
To:  "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] FW:  Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Yes, Sherri. There¹s no question this is a frustrating, devastating disease,
made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to just
putting down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander¹s haematocrit was actually down to 5
initially, and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his haemoglobin
was so low his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to the cells
in his body. I gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see that
they were only temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had a
reaction, so I was told he couldn¹t have any more transfusions, as the next
one would kill him. As a former medical technologist, I knew that to be
true. (In Canada, they didn¹t test for blood type at the time ­ don¹t know
if they do now.)
 
After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI (or
whatever it is called ­ I always mix up the letters), I totally by chance,
opened up my drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because his
haematocrit had dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood
transfusion, back down to 10, and I knew I was going to lose him soon. He
was on Doxycycline and Prednisone, but it wasn¹t doing a thing for his cell
lines, which were all depressed ­ with the most critical being the red
cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total surprise when, after I gave him
some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I started noticing his ears and
gums taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 days after starting the
Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of steadily down.
 
My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, really, what
are the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander¹s results kept slowly
but steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out of danger
and then into the normal reference range for all his results.
 
Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had very kindly
told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that he KNEW
about Winstrol and said that I had gone ³old-school² and this has been
something they used to use for this disease until ³word² spread that the
drug could cause liver damage!
 
Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people in this
situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in health
care, my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would often
diagnose things before them and/or I would identify problems they hadn¹t
seen) AND very likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no for an
answer, my vets were good enough to back off and let me do my thing. They
recognized that, OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the Winstrol
didn¹t work. They faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at my
request, and ran the weekly bloodwork, and agreed that there were no
positive effects. They saw the positive effects with the WInstrol. They
tried on a few occasions to talk me into discontinuing or reducing the
Winstrol when the liver enzymes increased, but after what

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[dlgegg]

JUST TO LET EVERYONE KNOW I AM WATCHING, JUST GOT HOME FROM HOSPITAL
 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> Yes, Sherri. There's no question this is a frustrating, devastating disease, 
> made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to just 
> putting down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander's haematocrit was actually down to 5 
> initially, and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his haemoglobin 
> was so low his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to the cells 
> in his body. I gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see that they 
> were only temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had a reaction, so 
> I was told he couldn't have any more transfusions, as the next one would kill 
> him. As a former medical technologist, I knew that to be true. (In Canada, 
> they didn't test for blood type at the time - don't know if they do now.)
> 
> After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI (or 
> whatever it is called - I always mix up the letters), I totally by chance, 
> opened up my drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because his 
> haematocrit had dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood transfusion, 
> back down to 10, and I knew I was going to lose him soon. He was on 
> Doxycycline and Prednisone, but it wasn't doing a thing for his cell lines, 
> which were all depressed - with the most critical being the red 
> cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total surprise when, after I gave him 
> some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I started noticing his ears and gums 
> taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 days after starting the 
> Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of steadily down.
> 
> My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, really, what 
> are the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander's results kept slowly 
> but steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out of danger 
> and then into the normal reference range for all his results.
> 
> Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had very kindly 
> told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that he KNEW 
> about Winstrol and said that I had gone "old-school" and this has been 
> something they used to use for this disease until "word" spread that the drug 
> could cause liver damage!
> 
> Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people in this 
> situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in health care, 
> my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would often diagnose 
> things before them and/or I would identify problems they hadn't seen) AND 
> very likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no for an answer, my vets 
> were good enough to back off and let me do my thing. They recognized that, 
> OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the Winstrol didn't work. They 
> faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at my request, and ran the 
> weekly bloodwork, and agreed that there were no positive effects. They saw 
> the positive effects with the WInstrol. They tried on a few occasions to talk 
> me into discontinuing or reducing the Winstrol when the liver enzymes 
> increased, but after what Zander had been through - being on the brink of 
> death - I was not open to discussing this option. On a few occasions I would 
> reduce the Wi
 nstrol briefly, only to see his haematology drop. I would then hold my breath 
for a few days or weeks, to let the liver enzymes settle a bit, before getting 
him back on the WInstrol. However, I don't think any of the vets were prepared 
to argue with the obvious success. They had seen the unbelievably low 
haematocrit and red cell count, for themselves.
> 
> I just don't know how we can get this message across to mainstream vets. This 
> is NOT an evil drug which must be avoided at all costs. I wish I could 
> address a vet convention. If I had LITTLE TIME, I would write a paper and 
> submit it for publication in a vet publication.
> 
> I get angered when I hear about all the trouble everyone has, getting some 
> Winstrol for their cats, despite the desperate circumstances the cats are in.
> 
> Sherri, the odd thing for you is that your vet is okay with the Winstrol but 
> not the Doxycycline. Really bizarre!
> 
> No wonder underground markets flourish. It just shouldn't be this hard to be 
> at least given an opportunity and a bit of hope to save our cats.
> 
> Amani
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Sherri Godschalk
> Sent: September-30-16 5:53 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
> 
> Thanks Amani.
> 
> I called the vets office right after I read what you wrote below and asked 
> again for the Doxycycline and he insisted she did not need it. I am just 
> going to have to hope that Bogey continues to get better on the regiment we 
> are on. I feel very thank

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Amani Oakley]

Yes, Sherri. There's no question this is a frustrating, devastating disease, 
made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to just putting 
down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander's haematocrit was actually down to 5 initially, 
and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his haemoglobin was so low 
his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to the cells in his body. I 
gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see that they were only 
temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had a reaction, so I was told 
he couldn't have any more transfusions, as the next one would kill him. As a 
former medical technologist, I knew that to be true. (In Canada, they didn't 
test for blood type at the time - don't know if they do now.)

After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI (or whatever 
it is called - I always mix up the letters), I totally by chance, opened up my 
drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because his haematocrit had 
dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood transfusion, back down to 10, 
and I knew I was going to lose him soon. He was on Doxycycline and Prednisone, 
but it wasn't doing a thing for his cell lines, which were all depressed - with 
the most critical being the red cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total 
surprise when, after I gave him some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I 
started noticing his ears and gums taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 
days after starting the Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of 
steadily down.

My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, really, what are 
the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander's results kept slowly but 
steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out of danger and 
then into the normal reference range for all his results.

Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had very kindly 
told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that he KNEW 
about Winstrol and said that I had gone "old-school" and this has been 
something they used to use for this disease until "word" spread that the drug 
could cause liver damage!

Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people in this 
situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in health care, 
my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would often diagnose 
things before them and/or I would identify problems they hadn't seen) AND very 
likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no for an answer, my vets were 
good enough to back off and let me do my thing. They recognized that, 
OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the Winstrol didn't work. They 
faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at my request, and ran the weekly 
bloodwork, and agreed that there were no positive effects. They saw the 
positive effects with the WInstrol. They tried on a few occasions to talk me 
into discontinuing or reducing the Winstrol when the liver enzymes increased, 
but after what Zander had been through - being on the brink of death - I was 
not open to discussing this option. On a few occasions I would reduce the 
Winstrol briefly, only to see his haematology drop. I would then hold my breath 
for a few days or weeks, to let the liver enzymes settle a bit, before getting 
him back on the WInstrol. However, I don't think any of the vets were prepared 
to argue with the obvious success. They had seen the unbelievably low 
haematocrit and red cell count, for themselves.

I just don't know how we can get this message across to mainstream vets. This 
is NOT an evil drug which must be avoided at all costs. I wish I could address 
a vet convention. If I had LITTLE TIME, I would write a paper and submit it for 
publication in a vet publication.

I get angered when I hear about all the trouble everyone has, getting some 
Winstrol for their cats, despite the desperate circumstances the cats are in.

Sherri, the odd thing for you is that your vet is okay with the Winstrol but 
not the Doxycycline. Really bizarre!

No wonder underground markets flourish. It just shouldn't be this hard to be at 
least given an opportunity and a bit of hope to save our cats.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri 
Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 5:53 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Thanks Amani.

I called the vets office right after I read what you wrote below and asked 
again for the Doxycycline and he insisted she did not need it. I am just going 
to have to hope that Bogey continues to get better on the regiment we are on. I 
feel very thankful for my vet that he prescribing the Winstrol. I hope it is 
enough.

Your boy Zander must have been one strong cat to recover from how sick he was. 
It sounds like you really monitored him and gave him the best treatment. Your 
advise and knowledge 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Sherri Godschalk]

Thanks Amani. 

I called the vets office right after I read what you wrote below and asked
again for the Doxycycline and he insisted she did not need it. I am just
going to have to hope that Bogey continues to get better on the regiment we
are on. I feel very thankful for my vet that he prescribing the Winstrol. I
hope it is enough.

Your boy Zander must have been one strong cat to recover from how sick he
was. It sounds like you really monitored him and gave him the best
treatment. Your advise and knowledge of this awful disease and the benefits
and pitfalls of trying to treat it is invaluable to all of us who are caring
for these lovely creatures.

I read this messaging board and feel so bad that cat owners who desperately
need this drug cannot get it. I believe without a doubt that as fast as
Bogey¹s counts were dropping, she would probably not still be with me today
without it. I am sure the stigma attached to it keeps a lot of vets from
prescribing it or maybe they are just uneducated about it. My other vet
wouldn¹t even discuss a transfusion as she was certain that nothing could
help us for very long. She was quite intent on me putting this cat down and
just wanted to wash her hands of us it seemed. So the stigma isn¹t just
about this treatment, it is around the disease itself. Her statement ³There
are plenty of other healthy cats that need good homes² is proof enough of
that.

How frustrating for all of us.

Thank you again for your insight.

From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Friday, September 30, 2016 at 2:29 PM
To:  "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject:  [Felvtalk] FW:  Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Hi Sherri
 
Keep up with the bloodwork. Good for you. Because I did Zander¹s bloodwork
weekly, I was able to watch his counts very carefully as well, and this is
why I am so firm on what I saw that worked and what I saw that didn¹t work.
Keeping a close eye on the bloodwork will help you immediately point to the
effects of the medication, and I am sure that the stall you got on the
improvement of the bloodwork is solely because he removed her off the
Winstrol. I saw this drop or stagnation every time I even tried to wean
Zander down from 2 mg a day to 1 mg a day, for the first 10 months, but I
was starting at much worse blood results than you were. Zander¹s haematocrit
was 10 when I started the Winstrol.
 
Interesting about your vet¹s background. That may well explain his openness
to using Winstrol where so many others refuse. Those in athletics are well
aware of the amazing body building, muscle building, strength building
properties of Winstrol, and the fact that the rumoured side-effects are very
very exaggerated ­ probably to try and scare off athletes from using the
stuff. Once you use it, you find out it really doesn¹t have all those
terrible side effects, and it makes a real difference to improving body
strength. That is why I have come to the conclusion that, very sadly, we are
being denied access to Winstrol, not because it doesn¹t work or because it
has bad side effects, but because in the media it is BAD to take steroids if
you are an athlete. Why that should affect cats, or elderly people with
osteoporosis for that matter, is way way beyond me and very frustrating.
 
With respect to the platelets, my concern remains that the low platelet
count and the high lymphocyte count show that the virus is still actively
attacking cells. My theory is that while the Winstrol is working to build up
bone marrow and allow it to regenerate the lost red cells, the virus is
still attacking. That is why I believe that the Winstrol on its own will not
be enough, and you need to double-team the virus with the Doxycycline on the
one side, interfering with the ability of the virus to reproduce and the
Winstrol on the other hand, working to repair some of the damage caused by
the virus.
 
I don¹t think there is anything that directly will give you a boost on the
platelets, and my concern is that when the platelets drop so low, you have a
real risk of internal bleeding. I don¹t know what else to suggest.
 
Amani
 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Sherri Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 2:11 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
 


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[Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Amani Oakley]

Hi Sherri

Keep up with the bloodwork. Good for you. Because I did Zander's bloodwork 
weekly, I was able to watch his counts very carefully as well, and this is why 
I am so firm on what I saw that worked and what I saw that didn't work. Keeping 
a close eye on the bloodwork will help you immediately point to the effects of 
the medication, and I am sure that the stall you got on the improvement of the 
bloodwork is solely because he removed her off the Winstrol. I saw this drop or 
stagnation every time I even tried to wean Zander down from 2 mg a day to 1 mg 
a day, for the first 10 months, but I was starting at much worse blood results 
than you were. Zander's haematocrit was 10 when I started the Winstrol.

Interesting about your vet's background. That may well explain his openness to 
using Winstrol where so many others refuse. Those in athletics are well aware 
of the amazing body building, muscle building, strength building properties of 
Winstrol, and the fact that the rumoured side-effects are very very exaggerated 
- probably to try and scare off athletes from using the stuff. Once you use it, 
you find out it really doesn't have all those terrible side effects, and it 
makes a real difference to improving body strength. That is why I have come to 
the conclusion that, very sadly, we are being denied access to Winstrol, not 
because it doesn't work or because it has bad side effects, but because in the 
media it is BAD to take steroids if you are an athlete. Why that should affect 
cats, or elderly people with osteoporosis for that matter, is way way beyond me 
and very frustrating.

With respect to the platelets, my concern remains that the low platelet count 
and the high lymphocyte count show that the virus is still actively attacking 
cells. My theory is that while the Winstrol is working to build up bone marrow 
and allow it to regenerate the lost red cells, the virus is still attacking. 
That is why I believe that the Winstrol on its own will not be enough, and you 
need to double-team the virus with the Doxycycline on the one side, interfering 
with the ability of the virus to reproduce and the Winstrol on the other hand, 
working to repair some of the damage caused by the virus.

I don't think there is anything that directly will give you a boost on the 
platelets, and my concern is that when the platelets drop so low, you have a 
real risk of internal bleeding. I don't know what else to suggest.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri 
Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 2:11 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Thanks Amani for the response.

I think I can work with him about keeping her on the Winstrol. Last time when 
he took her off, since she has not been spayed, she went into heat and it 
really took a lot out of her. And he immediately put her back on it. I think I 
can convince him to not take her off until/if she is well enough to be fixed. I 
am not sure why the resistance to the Doxycycline. I am sure I am pestering him 
with these blood tests but don't really care if I am. They are not free and I 
always pay each visit so in a perfect world it shouldn't matter. I figure if I 
can get her in every couple of weeks without much guff from him I feel I am 
able to keep a pretty good watch on her counts.

By the way, he is a coach at one of the large high schools here in Fort Wayne 
and played sports himself when younger. So good call by you on his history with 
athletics.

I feel quite worried about her platelets. Everything else was going the right 
direction. To your knowledge is there anything I can do for her for this 
problem?

Sherri

From: Felvtalk 
mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>>
 on behalf of Amani Oakley 
mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>>
Reply-To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>>
Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 12:33 PM
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Sorry Sherri

I didn't see your comments below the numbers. I don't agree with your vet about 
him taking her off the Winstrol. Given that you are running the blood work 
regularly, though, you will be able to see if her numbers drop when the 
Winstrol is removed. You already saw that when he took her off the Winstrol 
before, her numbers flattened. He is just wrong. He must be a body builder and 
familiar with how Winstrol is used in athletics - they cycle, but they are not 
in a debilitated state and they are not cats, who metabolize things differently 
than humans.

Anyhow, running the blood work regularly will help you if the need arises to 
argue with him about taking off the Winstrol. Also, since he seems willing to 
run the blood work regularly (as I did with Zander but I ran it weekly), at 
some point, try

Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Sherri Godschalk]

Thanks Amani for the response.

I think I can work with him about keeping her on the Winstrol. Last time
when he took her off, since she has not been spayed, she went into heat and
it really took a lot out of her. And he immediately put her back on it. I
think I can convince him to not take her off until/if she is well enough to
be fixed. I am not sure why the resistance to the Doxycycline. I am sure I
am pestering him with these blood tests but don¹t really care if I am. They
are not free and I always pay each visit so in a perfect world it shouldn¹t
matter. I figure if I can get her in every couple of weeks without much guff
from him I feel I am able to keep a pretty good watch on her counts.

By the way, he is a coach at one of the large high schools here in Fort
Wayne and played sports himself when younger. So good call by you on his
history with athletics.

I feel quite worried about her platelets. Everything else was going the
right direction. To your knowledge is there anything I can do for her for
this problem? 

Sherri

From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Friday, September 30, 2016 at 12:33 PM
To:  "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Sorry Sherri
 
I didn¹t see your comments below the numbers. I don¹t agree with your vet
about him taking her off the Winstrol. Given that you are running the blood
work regularly, though, you will be able to see if her numbers drop when the
Winstrol is removed. You already saw that when he took her off the Winstrol
before, her numbers flattened. He is just wrong. He must be a body builder
and familiar with how Winstrol is used in athletics ­ they cycle, but they
are not in a debilitated state and they are not cats, who metabolize things
differently than humans.
 
Anyhow, running the blood work regularly will help you if the need arises to
argue with him about taking off the Winstrol. Also, since he seems willing
to run the blood work regularly (as I did with Zander but I ran it weekly),
at some point, try again to discuss the Doxycycline and indicate that since
you are running the blood work regularly, you will be able to see quickly
enough, what the effect is.
 
Amani
 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Sherri Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 12:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
 

Hi everyone. I took Bogey back for another blood test today even though she
wasn¹t due until next week. I wanted to make sure we were going the right
direction with the meds and to try to push again for the Doxycyline. I may
not have spelled that right. No luck on that issue but her blood test all
showed improvement except that her platelets dropped which he didn¹t seem
that concerned about. She went without the Pet-tinic for a couple of days
because they were out and had to order it and he seemed to think that might
be part of that. Here is a comparison from 2 weeks ago. It is a gradual
improvement but none the less made me happy. She really doesn¹t appear to be
feeling any better as these number rise but maybe that is a side effect of
the powerful steroids.

 
30-Sep16-Sep24-Aug
RBC2.92.572.43
HCT17.915.315.3
HGB6.25.55.3
MCV61.759.162.6
MCH21.421.421.8
MCHC34.636.234.9
RDW25.223.723.9
RETIC82.178.161.5
WBC12.0114.4713.46
NEU3.964.074.03
LYM6.818.837.75
MONO1.171.521.58
EOS0.060.0040.01
BASO0.010.010
PLT538850
 

For people not familiar with Bogey she is 13 month old FEVL positive
diagnosed on 8-1. Started on 5 mg Prednisolone and 2 mg of Stanzolol on
8-18. She eats and drinks well and is sometimes quite playful. But she does
sleep a lot and tires easily. She is on her second cycle of the Stanzolol,
the first of which was only 2 weeks and off for 1 week. This cycle and
latest results are after 3 weeks. Dr is not taking her off it this time
until her numbers improve. He insists she must come off of it (cycling) for
it to be effective.

 

Just an update. Thanks for reading. Best to all.

 

Sherri
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Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Amani Oakley]

Sorry Sherri

I didn't see your comments below the numbers. I don't agree with your vet about 
him taking her off the Winstrol. Given that you are running the blood work 
regularly, though, you will be able to see if her numbers drop when the 
Winstrol is removed. You already saw that when he took her off the Winstrol 
before, her numbers flattened. He is just wrong. He must be a body builder and 
familiar with how Winstrol is used in athletics - they cycle, but they are not 
in a debilitated state and they are not cats, who metabolize things differently 
than humans.

Anyhow, running the blood work regularly will help you if the need arises to 
argue with him about taking off the Winstrol. Also, since he seems willing to 
run the blood work regularly (as I did with Zander but I ran it weekly), at 
some point, try again to discuss the Doxycycline and indicate that since you 
are running the blood work regularly, you will be able to see quickly enough, 
what the effect is.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri 
Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 12:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Hi everyone. I took Bogey back for another blood test today even though she 
wasn't due until next week. I wanted to make sure we were going the right 
direction with the meds and to try to push again for the Doxycyline. I may not 
have spelled that right. No luck on that issue but her blood test all showed 
improvement except that her platelets dropped which he didn't seem that 
concerned about. She went without the Pet-tinic for a couple of days because 
they were out and had to order it and he seemed to think that might be part of 
that. Here is a comparison from 2 weeks ago. It is a gradual improvement but 
none the less made me happy. She really doesn't appear to be feeling any better 
as these number rise but maybe that is a side effect of the powerful steroids.


30-Sep

16-Sep

24-Aug

RBC

2.9

2.57

2.43

HCT

17.9

15.3

15.3

HGB

6.2

5.5

5.3

MCV

61.7

59.1

62.6

MCH

21.4

21.4

21.8

MCHC

34.6

36.2

34.9

RDW

25.2

23.7

23.9

RETIC

82.1

78.1

61.5

WBC

12.01

14.47

13.46

NEU

3.96

4.07

4.03

LYM

6.81

8.83

7.75

MONO

1.17

1.52

1.58

EOS

0.06

0.004

0.01

BASO

0.01

0.01

0

PLT

53

88

50


For people not familiar with Bogey she is 13 month old FEVL positive diagnosed 
on 8-1. Started on 5 mg Prednisolone and 2 mg of Stanzolol on 8-18. She eats 
and drinks well and is sometimes quite playful. But she does sleep a lot and 
tires easily. She is on her second cycle of the Stanzolol, the first of which 
was only 2 weeks and off for 1 week. This cycle and latest results are after 3 
weeks. Dr is not taking her off it this time until her numbers improve. He 
insists she must come off of it (cycling) for it to be effective.

Just an update. Thanks for reading. Best to all.

Sherri
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Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Amani Oakley]

Hi Sherri

The Winstrol does indeed make them feel much better, increases their appetite 
and seems to lift their mood. However, there is no question you are seeing a 
vast improvement on the numbers. The haematocrit, going up 2 points in a few 
weeks, is remarkable. The red cell counts are still struggling, but the 
reticulocyte count is showing that immature red cells are rising in numbers. 
The lymphocytes are gradually dropping, but still are not in normal ratio with 
the neutrophils. (Again, points to the need for the Doxycycline, but you are 
doing what you can.) I looked up the Pet-tinic, but I doubt that what is in 
Pet-tinic would help at all with the platelets - the iron would help with the 
haemoglobin count (haemoglobin is made up of an iron ring).

I do remain worried about the platelets, but you are certainly getting a good 
response on the red cells, haematocrit and haemoglobin.

Thank you for sharing.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri 
Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 12:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Hi everyone. I took Bogey back for another blood test today even though she 
wasn't due until next week. I wanted to make sure we were going the right 
direction with the meds and to try to push again for the Doxycyline. I may not 
have spelled that right. No luck on that issue but her blood test all showed 
improvement except that her platelets dropped which he didn't seem that 
concerned about. She went without the Pet-tinic for a couple of days because 
they were out and had to order it and he seemed to think that might be part of 
that. Here is a comparison from 2 weeks ago. It is a gradual improvement but 
none the less made me happy. She really doesn't appear to be feeling any better 
as these number rise but maybe that is a side effect of the powerful steroids.


30-Sep

16-Sep

24-Aug

RBC

2.9

2.57

2.43

HCT

17.9

15.3

15.3

HGB

6.2

5.5

5.3

MCV

61.7

59.1

62.6

MCH

21.4

21.4

21.8

MCHC

34.6

36.2

34.9

RDW

25.2

23.7

23.9

RETIC

82.1

78.1

61.5

WBC

12.01

14.47

13.46

NEU

3.96

4.07

4.03

LYM

6.81

8.83

7.75

MONO

1.17

1.52

1.58

EOS

0.06

0.004

0.01

BASO

0.01

0.01

0

PLT

53

88

50


For people not familiar with Bogey she is 13 month old FEVL positive diagnosed 
on 8-1. Started on 5 mg Prednisolone and 2 mg of Stanzolol on 8-18. She eats 
and drinks well and is sometimes quite playful. But she does sleep a lot and 
tires easily. She is on her second cycle of the Stanzolol, the first of which 
was only 2 weeks and off for 1 week. This cycle and latest results are after 3 
weeks. Dr is not taking her off it this time until her numbers improve. He 
insists she must come off of it (cycling) for it to be effective.

Just an update. Thanks for reading. Best to all.

Sherri
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[Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

[Sherri Godschalk]

Hi everyone. I took Bogey back for another blood test today even though she
wasn¹t due until next week. I wanted to make sure we were going the right
direction with the meds and to try to push again for the Doxycyline. I may
not have spelled that right. No luck on that issue but her blood test all
showed improvement except that her platelets dropped which he didn¹t seem
that concerned about. She went without the Pet-tinic for a couple of days
because they were out and had to order it and he seemed to think that might
be part of that. Here is a comparison from 2 weeks ago. It is a gradual
improvement but none the less made me happy. She really doesn¹t appear to be
feeling any better as these number rise but maybe that is a side effect of
the powerful steroids.

  
  30-Sep 16-Sep 24-Aug
 RBC 2.9 2.57 2.43 
 HCT 17.9 15.3 15.3
 HGB 6.2 5.5 5.3  
 MCV 61.7 59.1 62.6
 MCH 21.4 21.4 21.8
 MCHC 34.6 36.2 34.9
 RDW 25.2 23.7 23.9
 RETIC 82.1 78.1 61.5
 WBC 12.01 14.47 13.46
 NEU 3.96 4.07 4.03
 LYM 6.81 8.83 7.75
 MONO 1.17 1.52 1.58
 EOS 0.06 0.004 0.01
 BASO 0.01 0.01 0  
 PLT 53 88 50 

For people not familiar with Bogey she is 13 month old FEVL positive
diagnosed on 8-1. Started on 5 mg Prednisolone and 2 mg of Stanzolol on
8-18. She eats and drinks well and is sometimes quite playful. But she does
sleep a lot and tires easily. She is on her second cycle of the Stanzolol,
the first of which was only 2 weeks and off for 1 week. This cycle and
latest results are after 3 weeks. Dr is not taking her off it this time
until her numbers improve. He insists she must come off of it (cycling) for
it to be effective.

Just an update. Thanks for reading. Best to all.

Sherri


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Re: [Felvtalk] Shaken Cat???

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Roxanne...

I am very sorry to hear of your loss  but please remember that you 
did what so few others would have done cared for and loved a FeLV 
cat and provided a home where she could be comfortable during her days 
rather that living an uncertain life outdoors or in a shelter. I am 
a little confused as to why you might have thought that your friend had 
dropped or shaken Neveah  is there reason to think so??    Given the 
symptoms you describe she does as though she experienced some form of a 
serious neurovascular event... ( CVA)   I am continually bothered at the 
number of things that can go wrong with FeLV cats. it can affect ANY 
bodily system none are immune to it's reach  my one boy has GI 
trouble, Severe Vision Problems, Hair Loss and is also losing weight 
quickly despite having a very good appetite... I am worried that I might 
lose him or need to put him down as his behavior has changed a lot over 
the past couple of days( hiding...not sleeping with me) to many 
things to mention  Point is.. you've done a fine thing in 
providing homes to FeLV cats. There aren't many who would do this 
and ,often, despite our best efforts, they can't be saved. I hope 
you feel better soon...

 
 
 On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
wrote:

 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: feline leuk and shaken cat syndrome ?? (Amani Oakley)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 04:53:48 +
From: Amani Oakley To: Roxanne Smith ,
"felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] feline leuk and shaken cat syndrome ??
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Roxanne

First, I am so very sorry for your loss. It never, ever gets any 
easier, but you must know how much you did for your baby.


Your question is not a stupid one. What you are asking about could 
theoretically be possible. A cat?s brain is no different than a baby?s 
brain, and if you shake a cat hard, you could possibly cause the cat?s 
brain to herniate (swell and ultimately push down into the hole at the 
base of the skull). However, from what you describe, the more likely 
answer is something akin to a stroke, which is the result of a clot 
lodging in the brain and/or a haemorrhagic stroke where blood vessels 
burst in the brain, blocking an area from receiving blood flow. Just 
like in people, strokes can happen in many conditions, particularly in 
debilitated patients.


I think that is the likely answer here Roxanne, so there is no reason 
to suspect your babysitter did something wrong.


Again, my heart goes out to you for your loss of Neveah.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
Of Roxanne Smith

Sent: September-27-16 2:26 AM
To: Felvtalk
Subject: [Felvtalk] feline leuk and shaken cat syndrome ??

It has been awhile since I have looked at my emails and or 
participated in this group-but I am desperate for some help and 
answers, of which I am not even sure I explain all in an email.
Here goes, another one of my feline leuk cats died yesterday (Monday) 
AM.
She dropped to 6.4 pounds, lost a pound in one month-has not really 
been eating for days, keeping to herself, hiding, but would sit by me. 
The last two or three days she would no longer sleep with me.
I went to Florida a couple of weeks ago, had a babysitter come in 
daily to check on her-and she appeared to be doing well but starting 
going downhill, Neveah--cat lost about one pound in a month time 
period.
So this is where I really need help-and please pass on to see 
additional answers. I have noticed only a few people ever answer or 
respond to emails but I can say much as I never do. :.(
So I took Neveah to the ER Monday AM, as her temp dropped to 98.5, she 
could not move, and her rt eye was dilated and would not go back to 
normal and left eye appeared to be fine. Sunday my friend was in the 
room with her for hours and noticed the cat Neveah was acting/walking 
not correctly. Is anyone every heard of shaken cat syndrome-is it 
possible my friend dropped Neveah, or shook her in the room and caused 
her to have a blood clot-yes I am grasping here.
As with everyone I feel bad, should I have been more aggressive in 
giving her sub q fluids, obviously too late now, she is gone.
I have requested her latest blood panel for my records, but I know her 
kidney panel