Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp

[Maribel Piloto]

Thank you guys.Very encouraging.  Now let’s see if I can get my vet to 
prescribe the Winstrol.   I’m sending him all the things you have written.

Maribel

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
-Mohandas Ghandi

> On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so very often 
> now.
>  
> Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the effects of 
> erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because erythropoietin tells 
> the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With FeLV, it infects the cells in 
> the bone marrow which produce all three cell lines (red cells, white cells, 
> platelets). The cells are taken over and destroyed by the virus, which means 
> that the bone marrow can no longer produce red cells, white cells and/or 
> platelets. The erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to these cells and 
> telling them to churn out more red cells, but the bone marrow cells can no 
> longer do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that after my cat had the 
> very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % RETICULOCYTES, etc.) and 
> AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood transfusions, the Winstrol 
> turned back on the bone marrow and he began producing red cells, white cells 
> and platelets again.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sandy
> Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM
> To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
>  
> This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer 
> lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your 
> vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need 
> to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy 
> W
> 
>  
> 
> Winstrol – 1 mg twice a day
> 
> Doxycycline – 1/5 to ¼ tablet (100 mg) twice a day
> 
> Prednisolone – ½ 5 mg tablet, twice a day
> 
> If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow 
> moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of 
> the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ¼ tablet of 
> apometocloprimide.
> 
> If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low – like below 5-8, you might 
> consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and 
> kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely 
> increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might 
> also increase the liver enzymes faster.
> 
>  Hope this helps! Amani
> 
>  
> 
>  From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary
> Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
> 
>  Amani,
> 
> Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they 
> must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.
> 
> Thanks,   Gary
> 
>  On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:
> 
> Hi Sherri
> 
> I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is 
> that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back 
> into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to 
> interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, 
> though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. 
> But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the 
> Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it 
> from rising.
> 
> Amani
> 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 
> Hi Liz
> 
> The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol 
> (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are 
> used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid.
> 
> Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.
> 
> Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right 
> now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or 
> inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA 
> duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but 
> neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly 
> and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated 
> again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have been 
> contacted directly by several people from this group, who have reported to me 
> that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats’ 
> gums/ears/pads pinkening up.
> 
> The problem is that Winstrol is a 

Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp

[Amani Oakley]

Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so very often 
now.

Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the effects of 
erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because erythropoietin tells 
the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With FeLV, it infects the cells in 
the bone marrow which produce all three cell lines (red cells, white cells, 
platelets). The cells are taken over and destroyed by the virus, which means 
that the bone marrow can no longer produce red cells, white cells and/or 
platelets. The erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to these cells and telling 
them to churn out more red cells, but the bone marrow cells can no longer do 
that. My experience with the Winstrol is that after my cat had the very worst 
results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % RETICULOCYTES, etc.) and AFTER I had 
given him several bouts of blood transfusions, the Winstrol turned back on the 
bone marrow and he began producing red cells, white cells and platelets again.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sandy
Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM
To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp


This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer 
lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your vet 
will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need to act 
immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy W



Winstrol – 1 mg twice a day

Doxycycline – 1/5 to ¼ tablet (100 mg) twice a day

Prednisolone – ½ 5 mg tablet, twice a day

If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving 
stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the 
effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ¼ tablet of 
apometocloprimide.

If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low – like below 5-8, you might 
consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and 
kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase 
in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also 
increase the liver enzymes faster.

 Hope this helps! Amani



 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV

 Amani,

Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they must 
have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.

Thanks,   Gary

 On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Hi Sherri

I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is 
that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back into 
the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to interfere 
with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, though I 
believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. But at the 
outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on 
board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising.

Amani

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Hi Liz

The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol 
(Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are 
used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid.

Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.

Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right 
now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or 
inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA duplication. 
The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but neither of these 
helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on 
the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At 
least it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several 
people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw almost 
immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats’ gums/ears/pads pinkening up.

The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also what 
professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite 
unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that 
association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both animal 
and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to be 
effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia.

Here is a blurb I found about it:

Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the 

Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp

[Sandy]

This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer 
lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your vet 
will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need to act 
immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy W


Winstrol – 1 mg twice a day

Doxycycline – 1/5 to ¼ tablet (100 mg) twice a day

Prednisolone – ½ 5 mg tablet, twice a day

If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving 
stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the 
effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ¼ tablet of 
apometocloprimide.

If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low – like below 5-8, you might 
consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and 
kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase 
in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also 
increase the liver enzymes faster.

 Hope this helps! Amani


 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV

 Amani,

Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they must 
have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.

Thanks,   Gary

 On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Hi Sherri

I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is 
that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back into 
the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to interfere 
with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, though I 
believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. But at the 
outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on 
board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising.

Amani

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Hi Liz

The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol 
(Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are 
used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid.

Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.

Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right 
now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or 
inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA duplication. 
The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but neither of these 
helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on 
the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At 
least it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several 
people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw almost 
immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats’ gums/ears/pads pinkening up.

The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also what 
professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite 
unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that 
association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both animal 
and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to be 
effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia.

Here is a blurb I found about it:

Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop 
Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, 
Winthrop’s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started 
manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets.

In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But 
later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting growth 
and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of the 
manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol was among 
those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. 
During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia – as it had the 
power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial 
swelling or angioedema.

When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation 
Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, Ovation 
Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol products 
available today in the American markets are only generic and not pharmaceutical 
grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still manufacture and 
sell Winstrol.

Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it 
separates from the liquid into micrometer 

[Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp

[Maribel Piloto]

Hi all,
I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic.  Her name is Flaqui.  She 
showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago (already spayed) 
and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat with not much time left so I 
took her home to give her some comfort in her final days.  When I took her to 
the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+. 
  I decided to keep her in my room where I have another Leuk+ guy.  I'm 
building a little catio for them outside one of the bedroom windows so they can 
enjoy the outside.
Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were...
RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOWHCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOWHGB 6.8 g/dl 
(9.0-15.1) LOWMCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0)MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0)MCHC - 33.8 g/dL 
(29.0-37.5)RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0)%RETIC - 1.3%RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) 
HIGHWBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50)EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGHPLT - 663 K/uL 
(175-600)Everything else was normal
I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 
among other things.  Also giving her Vetri-DMG.   She initially had very bad 
diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole.  She's also been 
dewormed and got Revolution.   Despite eating and showing an interest in food, 
she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had bloodwork done 
again.  Here are the results...
RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOWHCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOWHGB 8.1 g/dl 
(9.0-15.1) LOWMCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOWMCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGHMCHC - 
--- g/dL (29.0-37.5)RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0)%RETIC - 1.1%RETIC - 40.7 K/uL 
(3.0-50.0)WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGHNEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) 
HIGHPLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGHEverything else was normal
My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count was 
high which is indicative on an infection somewhere.  I was really alarmed by 
the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure and anemia some 
years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below 20% it can be very 
dangerous.   With that cat, Grayson, I used Aranesp very successfully to treat 
his anemia.  He eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept 
his anemia at bay.
I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with 
Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area 
(South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other cats 
at home with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth extraction for 
stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui.
Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her?  She does 
not have kidney problems.  However, based on the reticulocyte levels, she does 
seem to have  non-regenerative anaemia.   I read this document at Tanya's 
Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains that the 
reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV...

In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage terms, 
they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% 
reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% reticulocytes 
in a cat with a PCV of 10%.   Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the 
measured reticulocyte count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured 
count, then divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many 
laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of 0.39%, 
which indicates non-regeneration. In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and 
the measured reticulocyte count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. 
This also indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the 
corrected value, the lower the regenerative response).

Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 
which indicates non-regeneration.
Any help would be appreciated.  Flaqui has been doing better the last couple of 
days.  I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could improve those 
HCT numbers.
Maribel & Flaqui.
"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
-Mohandas Ghandi___
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