Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies
Beth, Sorry it took me so long to reply. Toxic is a strange word. It is sort of like 'allergy' in the world of pharmacology. When taking an antibiotic people/animals often experience GI problems and some will call it an allergy. It is not it is more like a side effect than an allergy. Toxic is the same kind of thing. When something causes damage to say the kidney, liver, CNS (central nervous system), retina, lungs or heart I would certainly call it toxic. When it causes loose stool or diarrhea I would be less inclined to call it toxic. With respect to Aloe vera, the skin of the plant contains a factor than can be a strong laxative. In juice form this is a less potent problem as the skin is not present. There are groups that have tried to extract the active immunoregulatory components of aloe and removed the laxative effects. Mannatech is one such organization. They sell a product called ambotrose. If one prefers to avoid the possible GI effects they could try this. So, to the best of my knowledge, the plant itself can cause severe diarrhea, the juice less so and the processed Ambotrose virtually no problems with GI issues. Hope this helps, and Gary I forgot, but I will get the abstracts to you. Jenny On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:05 PM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't know anything about this, so forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but isn't Aloe Vera toxic to cats? I know our rescue adopted out a cat that got very ill from munching on her new owner's Aloe Vera Plant. Beth --Original Message-- From: jbero tds.net Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org ReplyTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies Sent: Mar 28, 2010 7:51 PM Gary, You ask a loaded question. Technically oral 'acemannan' is not yet available. What I was referring to was the oral form of sugars that are an extract from the aloe vera plant. The best product would be an organic all natural aloe vera juice preparation. There are a few good ones out there. With respect to specific papers supporting it's efficacy. Well, this is convoluted. Largely because felv is so unpredictable and it's hard to say whether any of these treatments are really doing anything anyway. Having said that, there are many papers written about the value of aloe vera poly- and mono-saccharides in viral infections and immune support. In reference to felv specifically most studies have been done around the IP injection. There is a paper comparing the use of IP injection and oral preparation in fiv cats - comparable results in each group. I don't have access to pub meb from this computer, but can get it from work and send you the abstract. To me the big issue is whether or not things are absorbed through the oral preparation - the fiv paper supports that it does and most of what I know about intestinal absorption supports easy passive and active diffusion of the sugars. Additionally any IP injection would also require absorption into the vascular system. To the best of my knowledge no specific research has yet been done or at least published to answer your exact question. Although it always nice to have evidence to support actions, sometimes the data just isn't there. I still believe in the value of acemannan and believe it can be used orally if only as a support measure in assisting the immune system. I have recently, however, spoken with a number of holistic vets who have better success with a oral supplement known as Moducare - it is a plant sterol derivative known to modulate the immune system. Some of them have also expressed support of the Standard Process feline immune support supplement. Who knows. I wish there was a straight forward easy answer to this disease. I really do, but I haven't found it yet. I will keep searching and I hope that if you find anything of value that you share it with me. Thanks and I will send you the paper when I can. Jenny On 3/26/10, Gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: I would be very interested in the source of the oral product and the protocol for FeLV cats. Also, any articles or studies relating to the use of oral Acemannan. Thanks, Gary jbero tds.net wrote: Minnie, 3. Acemannan - a supplement known to help fight off the virus. I would get them on an oral dose of this daily. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies
I don't know anything about this, so forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but isn't Aloe Vera toxic to cats? I know our rescue adopted out a cat that got very ill from munching on her new owner's Aloe Vera Plant. Beth --Original Message-- From: jbero tds.net Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org ReplyTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies Sent: Mar 28, 2010 7:51 PM Gary, You ask a loaded question. Technically oral 'acemannan' is not yet available. What I was referring to was the oral form of sugars that are an extract from the aloe vera plant. The best product would be an organic all natural aloe vera juice preparation. There are a few good ones out there. With respect to specific papers supporting it's efficacy. Well, this is convoluted. Largely because felv is so unpredictable and it's hard to say whether any of these treatments are really doing anything anyway. Having said that, there are many papers written about the value of aloe vera poly- and mono-saccharides in viral infections and immune support. In reference to felv specifically most studies have been done around the IP injection. There is a paper comparing the use of IP injection and oral preparation in fiv cats - comparable results in each group. I don't have access to pub meb from this computer, but can get it from work and send you the abstract. To me the big issue is whether or not things are absorbed through the oral preparation - the fiv paper supports that it does and most of what I know about intestinal absorption supports easy passive and active diffusion of the sugars. Additionally any IP injection would also require absorption into the vascular system. To the best of my knowledge no specific research has yet been done or at least published to answer your exact question. Although it always nice to have evidence to support actions, sometimes the data just isn't there. I still believe in the value of acemannan and believe it can be used orally if only as a support measure in assisting the immune system. I have recently, however, spoken with a number of holistic vets who have better success with a oral supplement known as Moducare - it is a plant sterol derivative known to modulate the immune system. Some of them have also expressed support of the Standard Process feline immune support supplement. Who knows. I wish there was a straight forward easy answer to this disease. I really do, but I haven't found it yet. I will keep searching and I hope that if you find anything of value that you share it with me. Thanks and I will send you the paper when I can. Jenny On 3/26/10, Gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: I would be very interested in the source of the oral product and the protocol for FeLV cats. Also, any articles or studies relating to the use of oral Acemannan. Thanks, Gary jbero tds.net wrote: Minnie, 3. Acemannan - a supplement known to help fight off the virus. I would get them on an oral dose of this daily. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies
Gary, You ask a loaded question. Technically oral 'acemannan' is not yet available. What I was referring to was the oral form of sugars that are an extract from the aloe vera plant. The best product would be an organic all natural aloe vera juice preparation. There are a few good ones out there. With respect to specific papers supporting it's efficacy. Well, this is convoluted. Largely because felv is so unpredictable and it's hard to say whether any of these treatments are really doing anything anyway. Having said that, there are many papers written about the value of aloe vera poly- and mono-saccharides in viral infections and immune support. In reference to felv specifically most studies have been done around the IP injection. There is a paper comparing the use of IP injection and oral preparation in fiv cats - comparable results in each group. I don't have access to pub meb from this computer, but can get it from work and send you the abstract. To me the big issue is whether or not things are absorbed through the oral preparation - the fiv paper supports that it does and most of what I know about intestinal absorption supports easy passive and active diffusion of the sugars. Additionally any IP injection would also require absorption into the vascular system. To the best of my knowledge no specific research has yet been done or at least published to answer your exact question. Although it always nice to have evidence to support actions, sometimes the data just isn't there. I still believe in the value of acemannan and believe it can be used orally if only as a support measure in assisting the immune system. I have recently, however, spoken with a number of holistic vets who have better success with a oral supplement known as Moducare - it is a plant sterol derivative known to modulate the immune system. Some of them have also expressed support of the Standard Process feline immune support supplement. Who knows. I wish there was a straight forward easy answer to this disease. I really do, but I haven't found it yet. I will keep searching and I hope that if you find anything of value that you share it with me. Thanks and I will send you the paper when I can. Jenny On 3/26/10, Gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: I would be very interested in the source of the oral product and the protocol for FeLV cats. Also, any articles or studies relating to the use of oral Acemannan. Thanks, Gary jbero tds.net wrote: Minnie, 3. Acemannan - a supplement known to help fight off the virus. I would get them on an oral dose of this daily. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies
I would be very interested in the source of the oral product and the protocol for FeLV cats. Also, any articles or studies relating to the use of oral Acemannan. Thanks, Gary jbero tds.net wrote: Minnie, 3. Acemannan - a supplement known to help fight off the virus. I would get them on an oral dose of this daily. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies
Minnie, I am sorry for your recent discovery. I am not sure how many responses you got from the group as they usually have a great deal of insight and suggestions. I can give you mine. First testing positive - you can get a false positive test but given that three of the five tested positive, it is likely real. You can also get false negatives so it is possible that your negative testing kittens are really positive. If it were me, I would operate on the assumption that all are positive. You could try separating the two negatives, but it is likely they will test positive in the near future - sometimes it takes awhile for the immune response to be picked up by the test. Here's the hardest part - the cats most often negatively affected by felv are cats under the age of one. Generally they do poorly and don't make it past two years. This is certainly not always the case, but often. Having said that, however, the flip side is that if you try treating now you may reverse the viral status and completely eradicate the virus. If you want to try this, now is the time. You will need a forward thinking vet that is open to alternative choices because conventional vet med utterly fails are treating this disease. These are your options: 1. interferon - used in conventional medicine - I wouldn't start here 2. LTCI - aka Imulan - I would do this, especially in the young and early infected - this is when the best results are seen. The thought is that the thymus (a gland that is developing in the young cats and is responsible for the production of lymphocytes that will kill the virus) starts to involute (shrink) because of the fel virus. Imulan has been shown to stimulate thymic activity and restore the normal immune response to fight the virus. I would start this as early as Imulan can be given - I do not currently recall when that is, but I believe within a few weeks of life. 3. Acemannan - a supplement known to help fight off the virus. I would get them on an oral dose of this daily. 4. Wei Qi Booster - a chinese supplement thought to help balance the immune response in this disease - I used it with my felv cat for awhile and she did well while on it, but I know little about how or whether it really works - this would require the aid of an alternative vet. 5. High dose IV Vitamin C- a woman by the name of Sally in this group is an absolutely excellent source of information pertaining to this and I would highly seek out her advice. If you want to eradicate the virus using this method - now would be the time. It is a daily IV drip for a matter of 1-2 weeks. If given in high enough dose and proper duration there is potential for eradication of the virus. 6. Colloidal silver - I don't know much about this, Sally also may have insight into this. So in the end you have options. How much it will cost and what path you choose is up to you. I can tell you this about the disease though. It is a virus that attacks the immune system (including the bone marrow) . If contracted early it nearly destroys their immune response and they can't fight it. As a result the virus gets into the cells of the bone marrow and causes them to behave oddly. This results in malignancy - like lymphomas, and lack of production of bone marrow elements including red blood cells (this leads to anemia). As a result these little ones usually die of anemia (they get weaker and weaker, stop eating and die) or a malignancy like lymphoma. The virus buries itself into the DNA of the cat's cells and cannot be pryed out. If you stop the virus early enough you may be able to keep this from happening. If you are too late, generally all you can do is support their failing immune system. So what I am saying is act now or forever hold your peace. Little things that add up are - good diet (I would go with raw or a good brand like evo or nature's variety instinct), low stress environment, stay away from vaccines, supplement with vitamin C, lysine, probiotics and acemannon orally. Hope this helps, if you have any other thoughts or questions just ask. Good luck and God bless. Jenny On 3/12/10, M C mliciou...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello, I'm joining this list serv with a heavy heart. We rescued a young Mom cat and her 4 babies. They appeared healthy for all intents and circumstances. Mom just tested positive for FeLV, 2 babies also did (one slight positive, the other one was definitely positive), and 2 tested negative on the Elisa. I need some help in deciding what to do... I'd love some feedback, as the Internet only yields so much useful information... 1. If the two kittens tested negative, are they likely negative? 2. Should the positive kitten be separated from the slightly positive one as well? 3. If Momma is about 6 mos old, how likely is it that she has FeLV, considering 2 of the babies also tested for it? Is there a chance she too could fight off the infection? At what point should Mom be retested with the PCR
Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Positive Young Mom Cat Babies
Lots of questions here. Some here may be better to answer I do not want you to think you will not get answers. This is a fantastic group. DO not do anything rash. Even though they are testing postive the kittens could throw off the virus. Also there is no way to know how long they will live. So enjoy your time with them. Give supportive care. Treat secondary infections aggressively. You will want to retest. I think it is 90 days. The IFA is more reliable than the snap test. Thanks for rescuing these babies. Take a breath. Sally On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:26 PM, M C mliciou...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello, I'm joining this list serv with a heavy heart. We rescued a young Mom cat and her 4 babies. They appeared healthy for all intents and circumstances. Mom just tested positive for FeLV, 2 babies also did (one slight positive, the other one was definitely positive), and 2 tested negative on the Elisa. I need some help in deciding what to do... I'd love some feedback, as the Internet only yields so much useful information... 1. If the two kittens tested negative, are they likely negative? 2. Should the positive kitten be separated from the slightly positive one as well? 3. If Momma is about 6 mos old, how likely is it that she has FeLV, considering 2 of the babies also tested for it? Is there a chance she too could fight off the infection? At what point should Mom be retested with the PCR or IFA? 4. What supplements or foods should we feed these kitties, to help them fight off the virus? 5. How long does Mom have to live, if she is confirmed to have FeLV? What are the alternatives? We rescue a lot of kittens and cats, so she will end up living in a cage alone unless we can find her a new home, which I doubt is going to be very likely. We don't have the funds to send her to a sanctuary, and we also have several FIV positive cats we are sanctuarying. Space is also an issue, as that is one less cat or litter we can rescue since she will be in that cage for a long, long time... I'd appreciate your insights and thoughts. Thanks, Minnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally(me), Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soul mate angel), Lionel(angel),Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black(MIA), Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior, Hotdog (newest) Silver, and Spike ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
