Yes -- love and respect all people.  Absolutely.  But just as other faiths believe that Christians are infidels and doomed to be separated from God, the Christian faith is very clear also that aside from Jews, you must believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.  Read the Gospel of John.  In particular, John 14:6.
 
We should go off list if you want to discuss this further.  E-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
=^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^=
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Getting a bit off topic now...was; Tip is Gone

Oh, I hope you're right!... :)
 
...Hmmm...of course Christ also said He'd come again "before all now living are dead"...THAT's the part that leads me to believe that its possible.  Just as I believe you don't have to believe in Christ to get to heaven, but that He must believe in you...."let those who can accept this teaching do.....others will not be able to because the Father in Heaven had stopped their eyes from hearing, their eyes from seeing...."  Just as He gave us numberous languages, looks, bodies, and opinions....I believe He gave us different beliefs and presents His divine glory to ways too numberous to count.  I think that love, respect & acceptance of others is one of the ultimate tasks we must master in life...
 
I guess what I'm saying is I really don't have a clue...so I believe in what comforts me and let it go at that.....My main belief base being that the Divine created mankind flawed...so He MUST be grading on a curve !  :)
God Bless,
T
Terri Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I hear you, but I don't believe in reincarnation because in Hebrews, the author writes: "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him."  Hebrews 9:27-28
 
So you don't have to do this again!
 
=^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^=
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone

I forgot about that one.  I am certain there are other references in other religions as well...Someone else wrote about reincarnation.  I do actually believe in that...don't want to ...because, quite frankly, I don't want to do this again...and I worry about not being able to protect those who I love. But I do believe that many of us go around again and again until we've learned all that our soul is capable of learning & then perhaps move onto a heaven...and then there are those who choose to go around again to make a difference for the better.  I suppose if there is a Heaven, it might get a bit boring for some....and they might choose the excitement of life...afterall, if there is such a thing as an eternal soul...wouldn't that make a lifetime just one LONG weekend? 

Terri Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
HALLELUJAH!
 
I am with you 110% on this one.
 
You forgot the story about the talking donkey in the Old Testament.  God chose a donkey to warn the prophet.
 
=^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^=
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Tip is Gone

Sheila,
 
You mentioned Heaven, so I'm assuming you are Christian, so look in your Bible for the proof that animals go to Heaven.  (I'll state some references here, but I'm sorry I don't have the exact chapter & verse...I'm dislexic, I never could memorize those.)
 
1)  The story of Noah:  At one pt. in this passage, it speaks of animals having to attone for the sin of drawing human blood. (Why attone if no soul?)
 
2) Christ often speaks of the Lion laying down with the Lamb once all is said and done.  He also refers to himself as the Lamb of God...why liken yourself to something that is unimportant.  Lambs were used as sacrafices to God.  The sacrific meant two things..one, the one offering it would be going without that which the lamb could provide, fleece, & meat...2) why would God (in the Old Testament at any rate) be pleased by the sacrifice of something unimportant.  God didn't ask for a sacrifice of stone, or even water (as precious at that is in the middle east)...but like Christ Himself, it was the releasing of a soul to ascend back to God.
 
3) When Abraham was tested with sacrificing his own son, and the angel stayed his hand, he was instead instructed to sacrifice a ram (now note here, the ram wasn't one who strolled onto the scene all robust and healthy, but one caught in the bushes -I would imagine only sick or old animals would really suffer this fate-) and God instructed the release of this creature as equal to the sacrific of Issac.
 
4) Christ's death not only saved all of mankind, but was to be an end to the animal sacrifics as well.  Christ said something to the effect of : there is no farther need to burn sacrifices...for the Lamb of God will be the perfect sacrifice and die for all.
 
5) Christ likened Himself to a sheppard...not a blacksmith, or doctor, but someone who looks after those who are weak and need him...someone who looks after animals.  (Now mind you He did also compared us to sheep - who although are very cute and well meaning are really ...how do I put this kindly....rather dim-witted animals, and I think there too was a hint....  :)  )
 
6) Paul's horse/mule depending on which description you read, was the one who first saw the angel blocking his path on the road to Jerico.  WHY reveal yourself to something of no consequence.
 
7) In the Book of Revelations the angels of the Appocolypse dissend to earth on horseback.  They don't arrive by themselves and purchase horses to ride.  :)
 
ALL of creation is the work of the Divine.  Why would He create that which is only temporary?  I'm an artist -and although I KNOW that my work is temporary...I have a great affection for the successful pieces I create....I can only imagine what it would be like not only to create but to give life to a creature capable of LOVE.  The Divine is pure love....ALL LOVE comes from HIM.  The Divine can neither be created or destroyed...if all love is in essence from God or God itself, than any of creation with the ability to Love, can not and will not cease to exist simply because the vessel dies.
 
Also God knows your heart.  If reuniting with all your loved ones in the afterlife would be heaven for you - Then that is exactly what your heaven will be.
 
I taught Catholism to teens.  We got on this very discussion one Sunday.  One of my boys was arguing that animal do not go to heaven because they aren't saved....when, before I could answer, one of the girls piped up, "Well they never NEEDED to be SAVED, they NEVER BETRAYED THEIR CREATOR!"  Out of the mouths of babes.
 
Father Bob told the following story:  A man awoke abruptly after a long illness, fully restored in mind and body and realized he must have died.  There was nothing around but open land so he began walking.  All of a sudden he looked down as his childhood dog, Buddy, ran up to him.  He leaned down to give and receive a kiss and picked up a perfect stick and played fetch with his childhood friend for what seemed like hours as they walked along. 
 
Then as they both crested a hill tired and thirsty from their play, they came upon a set of glorious gates.  Made of gold and inset with gems it was and music and laughter could be heard therein.  The paths were golden and diamond flowers lined each side.  The man and his dog ran forward but at the gate was a sign: "NO ANIMALS ALLOWED."  "Please the man said, can't he come inside too?  He was always there for me when no one else was, never judged me and I know he loves me". 
 
"No, I'm sorry, only humans are saved," replied the gatekeeper " leave him at the gate and come inside."  All of a sudden the man saw a fountain of cool water spring up just inside of the gate and was longing to quench his thirst, but, slowly turned away and said to his dog, "common...we'll be fine out here." 
 
As the man walked he became nervous...had he turned his back on God? ..Yet, he had always believed that Buddy was a gift from God...How could he give up Heaven?.. He looked down into those brown eyes as his buddy wagged his tail and sighed, his heart filled with love.  With a smile and a toss of the stick they both bounded off without regret.  A bit farther on they came to another rise they came upon a second set of gates.  Wood they were, made of the living trees themselves, old beyond age and beautifully carved and at the gates sat a man in comfortable clothes.  He smiled as they approached.  The man and his dog walked up slowly, sure they would be turned away. Just beyond the gates, ran a cool stream of clear water. 
 
"Welcome" the gate keeper said, reaching out to hug the man and then his dog.  "Please come in!  We've been waiting for you both." 
 
"But.." begain the man his eyes filling with tears..."it really is ok if Buddy comes too?  After all they wouldn't let him into heaven" he asked pointing back the way they had come.
 
"Son," the gatekeeper said with a gleam in his eye, "Only those who would leave a friend behind can enter THOSE gates...that's NOT Heaven....its Hell." 
 
Sheila, God Bless &  never doubt....
 
You WILL be reunited again!
 
 
 
 
 


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you Sally - I have joined the AC talk list. I have only recently come to believe that talking to animals was really possible. If I ever have another go missing I will not waste time contacting an AC. Do you know of any books on animals in Heaven. I just need to know I will see Tipper again.

Love, Sheila


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