Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-27 Thread Jean-Baptiste Kempf
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, at 05:49, Gyan Doshi wrote:
> Of course. The format is alive but the publisher has abandoned it, so 
> hacks are all that is left.

Or you define a proper extension with proper documentation and reviewing.

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Kempf -  President
+33 672 704 734
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Hendrik Leppkes
On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 5:50 AM Gyan Doshi  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2021-07-26 22:51, Hendrik Leppkes wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 5:16 PM Gyan Doshi  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:
> >>> 在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> >>>
>  On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:
> 
> > 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> >> Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
> >>
> > Not only, you can find whole history on:
> >
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
> > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
> > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581
> >
>  try play this sample in ticket
>  The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
>  concern when muxing.
> 
>  no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which
> >>> codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is 
> >>> hevc
> >>> from users flv? This is very unreasonable.
> >> By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...
> >>
> >>
> > Which just screams ugly hack even more then anything else.
>
> Of course. The format is alive but the publisher has abandoned it, so
> hacks are all that is left.
>

That doesn't mean we have to endorse those hacks.

HEVC in FLV, and a few other codecs, have been brought up numerous
times. You can find all the arguments in the ML archives. Just posting
yet-another-patch is not going to change those arguments or the
reasons to not apply such a patch.

- Hendrik
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Steven Liu
在 2021年7月27日星期二,Gyan Doshi  写道:

>
>
> On 2021-07-27 04:28, Steven Liu wrote:
>
>> 在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:
>>
>>
>>> On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:
>>>
>>> 在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:


 On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:
>
> 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:
>
>> Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
>>>
>>> Not only, you can find whole history on:
>>>
>> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581
>>
>> try play this sample in ticket
>>
> The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
> concern when muxing.
>
> no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which
>
> codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is
 hevc
 from users flv? This is very unreasonable.

 By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...
>>>
>> i do not think this can play all flv from other muxing, just private
>> demuxing, so why add it in ffmpeg? It is your private format, it can not
>> play all flv with hevc.
>>
>
> Is there a sample HEVC-in-FLV file for which this method won't work?

Maybe you can find it in the past mail context

>
> Regards,
> Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Gyan Doshi



On 2021-07-27 04:28, Steven Liu wrote:

在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:



On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:


在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:



On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:

2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:

Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?

Not only, you can find whole history on:

https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581

try play this sample in ticket

The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
concern when muxing.

no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which


codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is
hevc
from users flv? This is very unreasonable.


By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...

i do not think this can play all flv from other muxing, just private
demuxing, so why add it in ffmpeg? It is your private format, it can not
play all flv with hevc.


Is there a sample HEVC-in-FLV file for which this method won't work?

Regards,
Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Gyan Doshi



On 2021-07-26 22:51, Hendrik Leppkes wrote:

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 5:16 PM Gyan Doshi  wrote:



On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:

在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:


On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:


2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:

Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?


Not only, you can find whole history on:

https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581


try play this sample in ticket
The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
concern when muxing.

no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which

codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is hevc
from users flv? This is very unreasonable.

By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...



Which just screams ugly hack even more then anything else.


Of course. The format is alive but the publisher has abandoned it, so 
hacks are all that is left.


Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Steven Liu
在 2021年7月27日星期二,Hendrik Leppkes  写道:

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 5:16 PM Gyan Doshi  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:
> > > 在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> >  Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
> > 
> > >>> Not only, you can find whole history on:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
> > >>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
> > >>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581
> > >>>
> > >> try play this sample in ticket
> > >> The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is
> a
> > >> concern when muxing.
> > >>
> > >> no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which
> > > codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is
> hevc
> > > from users flv? This is very unreasonable.
> >
> > By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...
> >
> >
>
> Which just screams ugly hack even more then anything else.
> Maybe FLV should just export any unknown streams as data and the user
> can just deal with identifying and using them.

Third way about flv with hevc/av1/opus.  :D

>
> - Hendrik
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Steven Liu
在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:

>
>
> On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:
>
>> 在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:
>>
>>
>>> On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:
>>>
>>> 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:

> Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
>
> Not only, you can find whole history on:

 https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
 https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
 https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581

 try play this sample in ticket
>>> The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
>>> concern when muxing.
>>>
>>> no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which
>>>
>> codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is
>> hevc
>> from users flv? This is very unreasonable.
>>
>
> By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...

i do not think this can play all flv from other muxing, just private
demuxing, so why add it in ffmpeg? It is your private format, it can not
play all flv with hevc.

>
>
> This patch is only concerned with demuxing, so we are only talking about
>>> files generated by others.
>>>
>>> The only technical issue is the assignment of FLV_CODECID which can be
>>> mitigated by letting the user specify it at runtime. So muxers which use
>>> different values can be accommodated.
>>>
>>> About other codecs, HW enc/dec for HEVC are widely available, not so for
>>> VVC, AV1, VP? ..etc, so the slippery slope is not a concern in the near
>>> or
>>> mid-term.
>>>
>>   opus? HEVC is just one codec today, what about tomorrow? This is why so
>> many people objection about this kind of patchset.
>>
>
> The slippery slope is theoretical. It will only come up when *other* FLV
> producers start muxing new codecs and *other* consumers start accepting
> such files.
> Without that co-ordination and certain amount of market buy-in, this is
> not a concern.

 Of course, We are using now, ok?

>
> Regards,
> Gyan
>
>
>
>> Regards,
>>> Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Hendrik Leppkes
On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 5:16 PM Gyan Doshi  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:
> > 在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> >
> >>
> >> On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:
> >>
> >>> 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:
>  Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
> 
> >>> Not only, you can find whole history on:
> >>>
> >>> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
> >>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
> >>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581
> >>>
> >> try play this sample in ticket
> >> The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
> >> concern when muxing.
> >>
> >> no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which
> > codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is hevc
> > from users flv? This is very unreasonable.
>
> By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...
>
>

Which just screams ugly hack even more then anything else.
Maybe FLV should just export any unknown streams as data and the user
can just deal with identifying and using them.

- Hendrik
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Gyan Doshi



On 2021-07-26 19:49, Steven Liu wrote:

在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:



On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:


2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:

Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?


Not only, you can find whole history on:

https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581


try play this sample in ticket
The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
concern when muxing.

no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which

codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is hevc
from users flv? This is very unreasonable.


By making it a user option: ffmpeg -f flv -hevc_id 12 -i rtmp://...



This patch is only concerned with demuxing, so we are only talking about
files generated by others.

The only technical issue is the assignment of FLV_CODECID which can be
mitigated by letting the user specify it at runtime. So muxers which use
different values can be accommodated.

About other codecs, HW enc/dec for HEVC are widely available, not so for
VVC, AV1, VP? ..etc, so the slippery slope is not a concern in the near or
mid-term.

  opus? HEVC is just one codec today, what about tomorrow? This is why so
many people objection about this kind of patchset.


The slippery slope is theoretical. It will only come up when *other* FLV 
producers start muxing new codecs and *other* consumers start accepting 
such files.
Without that co-ordination and certain amount of market buy-in, this is 
not a concern.


Regards,
Gyan





Regards,
Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Steven Liu
在 2021年7月26日星期一,Gyan Doshi  写道:

>
>
> On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:
>
>>
>> 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:
>>>
>>> Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
>>>
>> Not only, you can find whole history on:
>>
>> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
>> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581
>>
> try play this sample in ticket

> The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a
> concern when muxing.
>
> no not only muxing, it’s format spec, and no documentation said which
codec id is hevc. 10?11?12?13?14?15? How do you make sure which one is hevc
from users flv? This is very unreasonable.


> This patch is only concerned with demuxing, so we are only talking about
> files generated by others.
>
> The only technical issue is the assignment of FLV_CODECID which can be
> mitigated by letting the user specify it at runtime. So muxers which use
> different values can be accommodated.
>
> About other codecs, HW enc/dec for HEVC are widely available, not so for
> VVC, AV1, VP? ..etc, so the slippery slope is not a concern in the near or
> mid-term.

 opus? HEVC is just one codec today, what about tomorrow? This is why so
many people objection about this kind of patchset.

>
> Regards,
> Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Gyan Doshi



On 2021-07-26 16:39, Steven Liu wrote:



2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:

Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?

Not only, you can find whole history on:

https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581
The objections mainly center on compliance with Adobe's spec which is a 
concern when muxing.


This patch is only concerned with demuxing, so we are only talking about 
files generated by others.


The only technical issue is the assignment of FLV_CODECID which can be 
mitigated by letting the user specify it at runtime. So muxers which use 
different values can be accommodated.


About other codecs, HW enc/dec for HEVC are widely available, not so for 
VVC, AV1, VP? ..etc, so the slippery slope is not a concern in the near 
or mid-term.


Regards,
Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Steven Liu


> 2021年7月26日 下午6:57,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> 
> Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?
Not only, you can find whole history on:

https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/6389
https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3581

And there have lots of use case in China Mainland:
https://github.com/CDN-Union/Code

As many developers said in irc, maybe there need some add a new format looks 
like flv in RFC or IEEE, I think this is a better way, or choose mkv :D

Thanks

Steven Liu

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Gyan Doshi



On 2021-07-26 13:45, Steven Liu wrote:



2021年7月26日 上午11:44,Gyan Doshi  写道:



On 2021-07-25 19:07, James Almer wrote:

On 7/25/2021 10:04 AM, Xiaolei Yu wrote:

Explicitly supply an HEVC codec id to enable this feature.
---
   libavformat/flv.h|  1 +
   libavformat/flvdec.c | 21 ++---
   2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

This has been rejected time and time again, last time not even a month ago.

We may not support muxing it, since that is apparently out of spec, but what's 
wrong with demuxing?

We support demuxing PCM in MP4 but not muxing it. There are a couple of other 
examples which I can't recall off hand. Isn't Postel's law accepted here?

There maybe have lots of codecs, not only hevc, for example opus av1 vvc av2 
vp8 vp9 and so on, but there have no enough codec id in flv format.
Yes this patch can fix his hevc in his flv, but cannot fix mine. Because it’s 
not the only one hevc in flv. And not only one patch for demuxing hevc in flv 
in history mails.


Are you referring to the choice of FLV_CODECID values?

Regards,
Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-26 Thread Steven Liu


> 2021年7月26日 上午11:44,Gyan Doshi  写道:
> 
> 
> 
> On 2021-07-25 19:07, James Almer wrote:
>> On 7/25/2021 10:04 AM, Xiaolei Yu wrote:
>>> Explicitly supply an HEVC codec id to enable this feature.
>>> ---
>>>   libavformat/flv.h|  1 +
>>>   libavformat/flvdec.c | 21 ++---
>>>   2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
>> 
>> This has been rejected time and time again, last time not even a month ago.
> 
> We may not support muxing it, since that is apparently out of spec, but 
> what's wrong with demuxing?
> 
> We support demuxing PCM in MP4 but not muxing it. There are a couple of other 
> examples which I can't recall off hand. Isn't Postel's law accepted here?

There maybe have lots of codecs, not only hevc, for example opus av1 vvc av2 
vp8 vp9 and so on, but there have no enough codec id in flv format.
Yes this patch can fix his hevc in his flv, but cannot fix mine. Because it’s 
not the only one hevc in flv. And not only one patch for demuxing hevc in flv 
in history mails.
> 
> Regards,
> Gyan
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Thanks

Steven Liu

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-25 Thread Gyan Doshi



On 2021-07-25 19:07, James Almer wrote:

On 7/25/2021 10:04 AM, Xiaolei Yu wrote:

Explicitly supply an HEVC codec id to enable this feature.
---
  libavformat/flv.h    |  1 +
  libavformat/flvdec.c | 21 ++---
  2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)


This has been rejected time and time again, last time not even a month 
ago.


We may not support muxing it, since that is apparently out of spec, but 
what's wrong with demuxing?


We support demuxing PCM in MP4 but not muxing it. There are a couple of 
other examples which I can't recall off hand. Isn't Postel's law 
accepted here?


Regards,
Gyan
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/flvdec: add HEVC demuxing support

2021-07-25 Thread James Almer

On 7/25/2021 10:04 AM, Xiaolei Yu wrote:

Explicitly supply an HEVC codec id to enable this feature.
---
  libavformat/flv.h|  1 +
  libavformat/flvdec.c | 21 ++---
  2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)


This has been rejected time and time again, last time not even a month ago.
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