Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 04.02.21 um 09:12 schrieb Korn Moffle:

unsubscribe me


idiot - how dumb are you when you believe writing that into a random 
answer with a random subject could work?


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and no, if that don't work it won't help not stating that and spam the 
list because i can't fukcing unsusbcribe you nor can other subscribers


List-Id: FFmpeg user questions 
List-Unsubscribe: ,
 
List-Archive: 
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> Sent from Outlook

ok, everything is clear now
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Korn Moffle]

unsubscribe me


Sent from Outlook


From: ffmpeg-user  on behalf of Phil Rhodes via 
ffmpeg-user 
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2021 12:12 AM
To: ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org 
Cc: Phil Rhodes 
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: 
minterpolate problem]

On Monday, 1 February 2021, 23:36:19 GMT, Jim DeLaHunt 
 wrote:


 > In many projects, "instead of complaining, submit a patch" is good
> advice. It turns users into contributors. But FFmpeg is not just any> project.

Quite. Knowing what I know, I'd sooner eat catfood than submit changes to 
ffmpeg.

The way it would usually work, if someone was willing to do some pro bono 
technical writing, is that it'd be written as a word document, because that's 
how writers work, revised using the features built into word documents for that 
exact purpose, and submitted to some sort of content management system.

Of course all of these things are laughably impossible in the case of ffmpeg 
because er, reasons and stuff. How else would they maintain such wonderful, 
class-leading documentation?

P
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Jim DeLaHunt]

On 2021-02-02 12:29, Michael Koch wrote:

Another suggestion: A programmer who adds a new feature to FFmpeg 
shouldn't write the documentation for this feature himself. Because 
for him everything is totally clear and he forgets to describe some 
important details. It's better if someone else tests the new feature 
and writes the documentation.



I think this is a great idea.

Also, if the developers of FFmpeg want to commit to better documentation 
for FFmpeg, they could make a policy that new code changes go into 
feature branches, not directly into master. Then someone writes the 
corresponding documentation which describes the changed feature 
behaviour, to the quality and accuracy level the project expects for 
documentation, and checks that into the feature branch too.  Only when 
the code is in the branch and reviewed, *and* the documentation is in 
the branch and reviewed, may be branch be merged into the master branch.


This policy would require an initialisation condition, because many 
parts of the documentation are probably not up to whatever quality and 
accuracy level the project demands. The initialisation condition needs 
to provide a way for the documentation to catch up to the present code, 
and trade this off against slowing down the rate of change in the code.


Developers of FFmpeg could commit to better testing also, by making a 
similar policy for unit test fixtures. I believe that FATE does not 
validate all of the important behaviours of the code at the moment.


    —Jim DeLaHunt

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Mark Filipak (ffmpeg)]

On 02/02/2021 04:23 PM, Michael Koch wrote:

Am 02.02.2021 um 22:05 schrieb Mark Filipak (ffmpeg):

On 02/02/2021 03:29 PM, Michael Koch wrote:
-snip-

In my opinion, it would be best to have all documentation in a wiki.


A wiki? Available to all to modify?


Available to all who are registered to the wiki. Why not? The wiki has a history and changes can be 
undone, if required. The first submissions from new members can be moderated.


I guess it's worth a try, eh? I do think there needs to be an editor, though, to act as facilitator 
and coordinator. A good editor can take a lot of the load. ffmpeg documentation is a big job.

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Michael Koch]

Am 02.02.2021 um 22:05 schrieb Mark Filipak (ffmpeg):

On 02/02/2021 03:29 PM, Michael Koch wrote:
-snip-

In my opinion, it would be best to have all documentation in a wiki.


A wiki? Available to all to modify?


Available to all who are registered to the wiki. Why not? The wiki has a 
history and changes can be undone, if required. The first submissions 
from new members can be moderated.


Michael

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Mark Filipak (ffmpeg)]

On 02/02/2021 03:29 PM, Michael Koch wrote:
-snip-

In my opinion, it would be best to have all documentation in a wiki.


A wiki? Available to all to modify? I respectfully disagree.

Another suggestion: A programmer who adds a new feature to FFmpeg shouldn't write the documentation 
for this feature himself. Because for him everything is totally clear and he forgets to describe 
some important details. It's better if someone else tests the new feature and writes the documentation.


I agree wholeheartedly! Further, I prefer that the documentarian submit their writings to an editor, 
an editor who would also perform documentation triage in the ffmpeg-user list. Even seasoned writers 
and encyclopedia writers are required to submit their writing to editors. An editor can correct 
English grammar, can advocate for comprehension goals, can coordinate documentation style, and can, 
when appropriate, liaison between documentarians and developers. Rather than as a gatekeeper, the 
editor can function as a first critic who can help relieve the load that developers and 
documentarians will naturally feel.


Here is the way that I document filters for my own use:
(Hopefully, your email client will not trash this too much.)

minterpolate   ...Convert video frames to a specified frame rate by dropping frames or by inserting 
new frames via frame duplication, blending, or motion compensation.
minterpolate=fps=60:mb_size=16:mc_mode=ombc:me_mode=bilat:me=epzs:mi_mode=mci:scd_threshold=10:scd=fdiff:search_param=32:vsbmc=0 
  ...Defaults.
minterpolate=fps   ...The output frame rate (integer or 
fraction). [1]

 fps=30 or fps=3/1001 or fps=30/1.001   ...Examples.
minterpolate=mb_size  ...Macroblock size (integer):
 mb_size=4 to mb_size=16
minterpolate=mc_mode...Motion compensation mode (integer or 
string):
 mc_mode=0 or mc_mode=ombc   ...Overlapped block. [2]
 mc_mode=1 or mc_mode=aobmc   ...Adaptive overlapped block. [2][3]
minterpolate=me_mode  ...Motion estimation mode (integer or 
string):
 me_mode=0 or me_mode=bidir   ...Bidirectional motion estimation. 
[2][4]
 me_mode=1 or me_mode=bilat   ...Bilateral motion estimation. [2][5]
minterpolate=me  ...Motion estimation algorithm to apply (integer 
or string):
 me=1 or me=esa   ...Exhaustive search algorithm. [2]
 me=2 or me=tss   ...Three step search algorithm. [2]
 me=3 or me=tdls   ...Two dimensional logarithmic search algorithm. 
[2]
 me=4 or me=ntss   ...New three step search algorithm. [2]
 me=5 or me=fss   ...Four step search algorithm. [2]
 me=6 or me=ds ...Diamond search algorithm. [2]
 me=7 or me=hexbs   ...Hexagon-based search algorithm. [2]
 me=8 or me=epzs   ...Enhanced predictive zonal search algorithm. 
[2]
 me=9 or me=umh   ...Uneven multi-hexagon search algorithm. [2]
minterpolate=mi_mode   ...Motion interpolation mode (integer or 
string):
 mi_mode=0 or mi_mode=dup...Duplicate previous or next frame for interpolating new 
ones.

 mi_mode=1 or mi_mode=blend   ...Blend source frames. [6]
 mi_mode=2 or mi_mode=mci   ...Motion compensated interpolation.
minterpolate=scd_threshold ...Scene change detection 
threshold (integer):
 scd_threshold=0 to scd_threshold=100
minterpolate=scd...Scene change detection method (integer or 
string):
 scd=0 or scd=none   ...Disable scene change detection. [7]
 scd=1 or scd=fdiff   ...Frame difference. [7][8]
minterpolate=search_param...Search parameter 
(integer):
 search_param=4 to search_param=INT_MAX   ...?
minterpolate=vsbmc...Variable-size block motion compensation (integer):
 vsbmc=0   ...Off.
 vsbmc=1   ...On.
[1] For each 'current' frame, whenever the prior-output-to-current-input time stamp difference is 
less than 1/'fps' (i.e. the input frame rate exceeds 'fps'), the current frame is dropped.

[2] Ignored unless 'mi_mode=mci' (or 'mi_mode=2').
[3] To reduce oversmoothing, window weighting coefficients are controlled adaptively according to 
the reliability of the neighboring motion vectors.

[4] Motion vectors are estimated for each source frame in both forward and 
backward directions.
[5] Motion vectors are estimated directly for interpolated frame.
[6] Interpolated frames are the mean of previous and next frames.
[7] Scene change leads motion vectors to be in random directions. Scene change detection replaces 
interpolated frames by duplicated ones. May not be needed for mi_mode=dup or mi_mode=blend.
[8] Corresponding pixel values are compared and, if they do not exceed the scd_threshold, scene 
change is detected.


--

Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

 On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 20:29:44 GMT, Michael Koch 
 wrote:

 > In my opinion, it would be best to have all documentation in a wiki.
I think that's probably a good idea. For something the size and complexity of 
ffmpeg, trying to embed the documentation into the executable is crazy.
> Another suggestion: A programmer who adds a new feature to FFmpeg> shouldn't 
> write the documentation for this feature himself. Because for> him everything 
> is totally clear and he forgets to describe some> important details.
This is a very important point. Often, documenting something like ffmpeg will 
requires an enormous amount of back and forth between technical people and 
writers to ensure that everything's documented in a way that's both technically 
rigorous and understandable. A lot of open source projects fail hard on this 
because what happens is exactly what you fear - whoever implemented it, who is 
not a writer to begin with, and may be operating in a second language, writes 
up a very thin description with an enormous amount of prerequisites and assumed 
knowledge.
P  
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Michael Koch]

Am 02.02.2021 um 19:54 schrieb Mark Filipak (ffmpeg):
Is there a middle way? Is the choice really, 1, an automated system, 
or 2, chaos?


How about a single person who receives all documentation submittals 
and fits them into a documentation structure?


An editor.

That's how the non-coder world works. And it works well. And it's 
flexible. And it can evolve with needs.




Currently FFmpeg has three documentations:
(1) The official documenation:  ffmpeg-all.html
(2) The built-in help functions (I rarely use them)
(3) The wiki:  https://trac.ffmpeg.org/

Problems:
-- (1), (2) and (3) may contain different informations about a subject. 
You have to consult all three.
-- The union of (1), (2) and (3) is still incomplete. Especially there 
should be more examples.
-- For many users (including me), it's impossible to submit changes to 
(1), because the git procedure is too complicated. The logical 
consequence is that in (1) many things are unclear or missing.

-- (3) is easy to edit, but currently very incomplete.

In my opinion, it would be best to have all documentation in a wiki.

Another suggestion: A programmer who adds a new feature to FFmpeg 
shouldn't write the documentation for this feature himself. Because for 
him everything is totally clear and he forgets to describe some 
important details. It's better if someone else tests the new feature and 
writes the documentation.


Michael

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Mark Filipak (ffmpeg)]

Is there a middle way? Is the choice really, 1, an automated system, or 2, 
chaos?

How about a single person who receives all documentation submittals and fits them into a 
documentation structure?


An editor.

That's how the non-coder world works. And it works well. And it's flexible. And it can evolve with 
needs.


--
Someone's sneaking in and turning up the flame so that my food burns.
I'm sure of it.
And the older I get, the more sure of it I become.
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/2/2021 2:59 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:


do you fucking idiot realize that i have *nothing* to do with the ffmpeg 
project? i'm an ordinar yffmoeg user like you


Then why are you arguing about the tools that other people use? If it gets 
the job done, use it. Oh, have have you ever tried seriously using a VCS for 
documentation? There's a reason most people don't, and it's not laziness- 
pretty much all work processors and document prep software include their own 
purpose-built change tracking and management, and that's what the industry uses.


the difference between both of you is "only" that i am 43 years old and 
started programming computers with the age of 9


OK, mine's bigger. I've been programming professionally for longer than 
you've been alive. (And all of that is completely irrelevant.)



z!
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Nicolas George]

Chris Angelico (12021-02-02):
> And Phil learned basic courtesy.

You mistake the absence of profanity with courtesy. It is a common
mistake.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 02.02.21 um 12:13 schrieb Chris Angelico:

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 10:00 PM Reindl Harald  wrote:




Am 02.02.21 um 11:54 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:



  On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 10:17:11 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:
(snip)
Well, you just keep telling yourself all that, and we'll keep admiring the 
fantastic documentation ffmpeg has. Obviously, it's a brilliant endorsement of 
whatever your approach is.
You have people offering to do free work for you and you're rejecting it (among 
oh so many other reasons) because of some insane software fashionability 
position.


do you fucking idiot realize that i have *nothing* to do with the ffmpeg
project? i'm an ordinar yffmoeg user like you

the difference between both of you is "only" that i am 43 years old and
started programming computers with the age of 9


And Phil learned basic courtesy


what is that good for when lacking any common sense?

i told him multiple times that i am not part of the ffmpeg projects

i fired hundrets of times against the "only current HEAD is supported 
here" attitude


he still talks to me like i am the ffmpeg project
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 10:00 PM Reindl Harald  wrote:
>
>
>
> Am 02.02.21 um 11:54 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:
> >
> >
> >  On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 10:17:11 GMT, Reindl Harald 
> >  wrote:
> > (snip)
> > Well, you just keep telling yourself all that, and we'll keep admiring the 
> > fantastic documentation ffmpeg has. Obviously, it's a brilliant endorsement 
> > of whatever your approach is.
> > You have people offering to do free work for you and you're rejecting it 
> > (among oh so many other reasons) because of some insane software 
> > fashionability position.
>
> do you fucking idiot realize that i have *nothing* to do with the ffmpeg
> project? i'm an ordinar yffmoeg user like you
>
> the difference between both of you is "only" that i am 43 years old and
> started programming computers with the age of 9

And Phil learned basic courtesy.

ChrisA
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 02.02.21 um 11:54 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:
  


 On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 10:17:11 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:
(snip)
Well, you just keep telling yourself all that, and we'll keep admiring the 
fantastic documentation ffmpeg has. Obviously, it's a brilliant endorsement of 
whatever your approach is.
You have people offering to do free work for you and you're rejecting it (among oh so many other reasons) because of some insane software fashionability position. 


do you fucking idiot realize that i have *nothing* to do with the ffmpeg 
project? i'm an ordinar yffmoeg user like you


the difference between both of you is "only" that i am 43 years old and 
started programming computers with the age of 9

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

 

On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 10:17:11 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:
(snip)
Well, you just keep telling yourself all that, and we'll keep admiring the 
fantastic documentation ffmpeg has. Obviously, it's a brilliant endorsement of 
whatever your approach is.
You have people offering to do free work for you and you're rejecting it (among 
oh so many other reasons) because of some insane software fashionability 
position. If you want it in a wiki, put it in a wiki, but let's agree that if I 
don't tell you how to do your job, you don't tell me how to do mine. Reasonable?
P  
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 02.02.21 um 11:11 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:
  


 On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 10:04:44 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:
  > sorry but in most cases when someone comes up with word/excel files> instead 
of pure plaintext things only become worser and that will not> change in 100 years
I'm going to assume from that you've never worked on anything with a large, 
serious documentation effort


well, you are even not capable to get a single line quote right


Hang on, let me check the ffmpeg docs.
No, you've never worked on anything with a large, serious documentation effort


if it's about tracking changes you use a VCS and not a fucking office 
suite the same way as you use a VCS for maintaining 300k lines of code 
over 15 years


or even a wiki but for no money in the world a office suite where people 
start to change fonts, styles and colors like there is no tomorrow 
without any real structure


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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

 

On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 10:04:44 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:  
 > sorry but in most cases when someone comes up with word/excel files> instead 
 > of pure plaintext things only become worser and that will not> change in 100 
 > years
I'm going to assume from that you've never worked on anything with a large, 
serious documentation effort.
Hang on, let me check the ffmpeg docs.
No, you've never worked on anything with a large, serious documentation effort.
P  
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 02.02.21 um 10:46 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:
  


 On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 06:30:35 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:

muhahaha - a word document is how writers work?

Yeah. I mean, think about it - how else are you going to track changes in a 
document?
I guess you could improvise some sort of solution by, I don't know, sending 
each other emails with lines added or removed prefixed by a plus or minus sign? 
Heh, it'd be like everyone's stuck in the 1970s with access to nothing more 
than a mechanical teletype machine, it'd be an almost unreadable nightmare, but 
I guess it could work.
But obviously, nobody in their right mind would ever possibly do that, right?


if people would be capable to operate a mail-client you would be 
impressed how good things are working


but, yeah when mixing quoting-styles, html, plaintext, top-posting, 
inline-quoting, TOFU it beomes a nightmare


sorry but in most cases when someone comes up with word/excel files 
instead of pure plaintext things only become worser and that will not 
change in 100 years

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

 

On Tuesday, 2 February 2021, 06:30:35 GMT, Reindl Harald 
 wrote:  
> muhahaha - a word document is how writers work?
Yeah. I mean, think about it - how else are you going to track changes in a 
document?
I guess you could improvise some sort of solution by, I don't know, sending 
each other emails with lines added or removed prefixed by a plus or minus sign? 
Heh, it'd be like everyone's stuck in the 1970s with access to nothing more 
than a mechanical teletype machine, it'd be an almost unreadable nightmare, but 
I guess it could work.
But obviously, nobody in their right mind would ever possibly do that, right?
P

  
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 02.02.21 um 07:39 schrieb Carl Zwanzig:

On 2/1/2021 10:30 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

muhahaha - a word document is how writers work?

in case microsoft office (or libre office writer) is the solution i 
want my problem back


So far off-topic, but YES, most writers (technical, legal, fiction, and 
otherwise) work in ms-word (with the occasional libre-office or other 
word processor) unless they use a purpose-built system (newspapers, 
broadcast journalism, screen-writers, etc). They do not use basic text 
editors as programmers do.


You don't have to like it, and you can have your problem back if you 
want, but that's how it is.


well, that explains the amount of idiots writing html mails without a 
single char formatted :-)

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/1/2021 10:30 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

muhahaha - a word document is how writers work?

in case microsoft office (or libre office writer) is the solution i want my 
problem back


So far off-topic, but YES, most writers (technical, legal, fiction, and 
otherwise) work in ms-word (with the occasional libre-office or other word 
processor) unless they use a purpose-built system (newspapers, broadcast 
journalism, screen-writers, etc). They do not use basic text editors as 
programmers do.


You don't have to like it, and you can have your problem back if you want, 
but that's how it is.


z!

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Reindl Harald]

Am 02.02.21 um 01:12 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:


The way it would usually work, if someone was willing to do some pro bono 
technical writing, is that it'd be written as a word document, because that's 
how writers work, revised using the features built into word documents for that 
exact purpose, and submitted to some sort of content management system.


muhahaha - a word document is how writers work?

in case microsoft office (or libre office writer) is the solution i want 
my problem back

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

 On Monday, 1 February 2021, 23:36:19 GMT, Jim DeLaHunt 
 wrote:
 

 > In many projects, "instead of complaining, submit a patch" is good
> advice. It turns users into contributors. But FFmpeg is not just any> project.

Quite. Knowing what I know, I'd sooner eat catfood than submit changes to 
ffmpeg.

The way it would usually work, if someone was willing to do some pro bono 
technical writing, is that it'd be written as a word document, because that's 
how writers work, revised using the features built into word documents for that 
exact purpose, and submitted to some sort of content management system.

Of course all of these things are laughably impossible in the case of ffmpeg 
because er, reasons and stuff. How else would they maintain such wonderful, 
class-leading documentation?

P  
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[FFmpeg-user] "instead of complaining, submit a patch" [was: Re: minterpolate problem]

[Jim DeLaHunt]

On 2021-01-31 05:05, Rodney Baker wrote:

On Friday, 29 January 2021 21:12:06 ACDT Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user wrote:

 On Friday, 29 January 2021, 09:43:09 GMT, Mark Filipak (ffmpeg)

 wrote:

Try 'ffmpeg -h type=filter.
It fails. Why? Because "filter" is a "type", not a "name" -- never mind
that the details says "... named decoder/encoder ..."

Yes, this is the sort of thing that causes the problem. Easy to fix, though,
you'd have thought. P


Well, if you have a solution, instead of complaining, submit a patch to the
ffmpeg-devel mailing list. If it gets accepted, congratulations - you've just
helped to improve the product!


In many projects, "instead of complaining, submit a patch" is good 
advice. It turns users into contributors. But FFmpeg is not just any 
project.


How has submitting documentation patches gone for you?

In my experience, substantive documentation patches trigger immune 
responses, and either don't get accepted but cause pain ([1a], [1b], 
[1c]), or get accepted only after much pain ([2a], [2b]). Both those 
attempts also earned me a private email from a senior developer wishing 
I would go away and stop participating in FFmpeg. The patches that get 
accepted straightforwardly were minor FAQ changes([3a], [3b]) or repo 
fixes [4].


[1a] https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-April/261467.html
[1b] https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-May/261792.html
[1c] https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-May/261811.html
[2a] https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-November/220528.html
[2b] 
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-December/221596.html
[3a] 
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-November/219782.html,
[3b] 
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-November/219925.html
[4] 
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-November/220095.html


My experience has persuaded me that "instead of complaining, submit a 
patch" is not an easy path to follow in this project.


    —Jim DeLaHunt


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