Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
On Tue, 22 May 2001 19:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Lynn Allen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: The eydroppers intimidate the **ll out of me. I guess I'm hoping to see Instant Results (i.e. feedback), which doesn't always happen. Just got a new PS book from the library, from the Not QUITE for Dummies series. Thanks for the nudge, Tony, I'll work on that. I am a dummy with PS, don't use much of it at all and keep on discovering stuff I never realised existed. I assume there's still tons more I don't know about, so I am always wary about posting any advice here, 'cos someone is likely to pop up and say 'nah, that's a really silly way to go about things'. However I stumbled on this a few months ago having accidentally double-clicked on an eyedropper, and it really does help with colour negs. Regards Tony Sleep http://www.halftone.co.uk - Online portfolio exhibit; + film scanner info comparisons
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
On Wed, 23 May 2001 01:29 +0100 (BST) Tony Sleep ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: When selecting the tone and colour setting for the highlight dropper, drag the little circle to where you want it on the big graduated picker panel. I usually *don't* use the highlight dropper for the brightest highlight, used this way, but select a bright value which still has some detail in. By setting it to the tone and colour you want, you let the brightest highlights look after themselves (usually specular so beyond any detail anyhow), but PS straightens out a lot of the colour correction. OK, it seems I really didn't explain this adequately! More requests for clarification and here it is:- Thanks for the response at your end, BTW. Yes, I double click on the highlight eyedropper in Levels and get the box you're describing, with the little circle and graduated colors. Guess I'm dense but whether I use the eyedropper or move the little circle there is no change in either the picture or histogram. I must be missing a step. Which is the next step! Having selected with the eyedropper what colour and tone you want your target area of near-highlight to appear, you must then click the eyedropper on that part of the image. Magic ensues. For example say a subject has light gray hair, but in the image it has a blue cast, so looks like a bad blue rinse. Select the light gray it should be using the picker, then click on the area of hair you want to fix. PS will correct the entire image to sort out the colour rendition so that the blue hair now appears the selected, correct gray. As the eyedropper samples either 1x1 or 3x3 pixels, you may need to try a few times to get the best effect. Regards Tony Sleep http://www.halftone.co.uk - Online portfolio exhibit; + film scanner info comparisons
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Joel Wilcox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, works for me. My Crop|Buffer setting is 2% (I think the default) and that seems to work well for my full frame crops. A person could probably increase this to 10% to make sure the black can't influence the auto values. The default 2% often doesn't work for me, so I have increased it to 5% and will check what difference it makes. Perhaps 5% should be the default? My main point wasn't about the exposure, it was about how difficult the Vuescan crop box is to place accurately - even after zooming - because dragging an edge seems to sometimes drag the whole box. I wish Photoshop had a crop tool like the one in PSP - the problem with the normal rectangular selection is that you can't drag the sides once you've placed it. That means you have to guess the starting corner very well or you'll lose some image when you crop. In PSP you can roughly set the crop outline, then zoom to 1:1 to adjust it. PSP won't edit in 16bit mode however. :( The behaviour of the PSP crop tool is *exactly* how the Vuescan crop outline should work - it nearly does, but not as predictably. Rob
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
It might be nice to have a second crop-like box that functioned something like a spot-meter or a center-weighted meter: the scan exposure and processing would primarily be based on the marked off section. John M. Rob Geraghty wrote: Joel Wilcox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, works for me. My Crop|Buffer setting is 2% (I think the default) and that seems to work well for my full frame crops. A person could probably increase this to 10% to make sure the black can't influence the auto values. The default 2% often doesn't work for me, so I have increased it to 5% and will check what difference it makes. Perhaps 5% should be the default? Rob
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
You definitely can reset the crop outline in Photoshop. Or alter it. Easily. In contrast with PSP, or some other programs, what you do in PS is: 1 Use Marquee tool to draw box outline. It can also be a circle, etc. 2.To add to the box, hold shift key down (don't have to) and redraw box, or just redraw the box. Curser defaults to +, so the default is to add to the box. If you want to subtract in any way from the box, hold shift and Option key down (at least on the Mac). Box will redraw to smaller box. If you hold down just the Option key when redrawing the marquee outline, the curser shows a - (minus), meaning that wnen you crop, the contents of that outline will be deleted from the image, leaving you with a frame section of the image. Option/Shift gets you a smaller box; the curser contains neither a +, or -. 3. Alternately, to resize the marquee outline arbitrarily, any side, execute transform selection from the Select Menu. You have other choices as well to modify the marquee outline, such precise grow/shrink. 4. After selecting Transform Selection, you have handles at corners to rotate, pull/push, you can grab any side to pull/push, and in general do anything you want to modify the marquee outline. Extremely userful when attempting to level an image with the horizon. When done, push enter 5. And, you can go back to any stage at any time to redo (if not saved and reopened) by looking over the history.. (That is something I would like PS to incorporate - saved history - but it would significantly increase the size of the file) Nope. Photoshop didn't leave anything out. And you can do anything of the above in 8 or 16 bit mode, plus use the marquee outlines in a variety of other ways, such as have more than one marquee; e.g. one box inside the other - for a cutout frame, for example, Or two independent marquees. Or the marquee outline can become a mask, which can be saved. On and on. From: Rob Geraghty [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wish Photoshop had a crop tool like the one in PSP - the problem with the normal rectangular selection is that you can't drag the sides once you've placed it. That means you have to guess the starting corner very well or you'll lose some image when you crop. In PSP you can roughly set the crop outline, then zoom to 1:1 to adjust it. PSP won't edit in 16bit mode however. :( The behaviour of the PSP crop tool is *exactly* how the Vuescan crop outline should work - it nearly does, but not as predictably. Rob
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Or move it incrementally one pixel at a time in any direction using the arrow keys. Larry You definitely can reset the crop outline in Photoshop. Or alter it. Easily. In contrast with PSP, or some other programs, what you do in PS is: 1 Use Marquee tool to draw box outline. It can also be a circle, etc. 2.To add to the box, hold shift key down (don't have to) and redraw box, or just redraw the box. Curser defaults to +, so the default is to add to the box. If you want to subtract in any way from the box, hold shift and Option key down (at least on the Mac). Box will redraw to smaller box. If you hold down just the Option key when redrawing the marquee outline, the curser shows a - (minus), meaning that wnen you crop, the contents of that outline will be deleted from the image, leaving you with a frame section of the image. Option/Shift gets you a smaller box; the curser contains neither a +, or -. 3. Alternately, to resize the marquee outline arbitrarily, any side, execute transform selection from the Select Menu. You have other choices as well to modify the marquee outline, such precise grow/shrink. 4. After selecting Transform Selection, you have handles at corners to rotate, pull/push, you can grab any side to pull/push, and in general do anything you want to modify the marquee outline. Extremely userful when attempting to level an image with the horizon. When done, push enter 5. And, you can go back to any stage at any time to redo (if not saved and reopened) by looking over the history.. (That is something I would like PS to incorporate - saved history - but it would significantly increase the size of the file) Nope. Photoshop didn't leave anything out. And you can do anything of the above in 8 or 16 bit mode, plus use the marquee outlines in a variety of other ways, such as have more than one marquee; e.g. one box inside the other - for a cutout frame, for example, Or two independent marquees. Or the marquee outline can become a mask, which can be saved. On and on. *** Larry Berman http://BermanGraphics.com http://IRDreams.com http://ImageCompress.com ***
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Rob - if you meant Photoshop and not Vuescan, it does have a crop tool which is adjustable on each edge. It is not the Rectangular Marquee Tool that I think you are referring to, but the Crop Tool on the same location in the tool palette. Hold mouse down on the corner of the Rectangular Marquee tool to expand and select the last one which is the crop tool (in Ver 5.5 anyway). Julian At 20:04 20/05/01, you wrote: I wish Photoshop had a crop tool like the one in PSP - the problem with the normal rectangular selection is that you can't drag the sides once you've placed it. That means you have to guess the starting corner very well or you'll lose some image when you crop. Julian Robinson in usually sunny, smog free Canberra, Australia
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Richard wrote: You definitely can reset the crop outline in Photoshop. Or alter it. Easily. [snip] OK, as usual with Photoshop, there are lots of features which are there but not obvious or intuitive. You say easily and it is if you know how, but it's nowhere near as straightforward as the click and drag behaviour in PSP. I'm not saying that to encourage a religious war about software. Thanks for letting me know how it's done in PS - I'll have to try it out. Rob Rob Geraghty [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wordweb.com
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
At 09:20 21/05/01, Rob wrote: You say easily and it is if you know how, but it's nowhere near as straightforward as the click and drag behaviour in PSP. As I said it is exactly as straightforward if you use the Crop Tool and not the Marquee Tool. Julian Robinson in usually sunny, smog free Canberra, Australia
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Has anyone else experienced this? I'd have to say that the behaviour of the crop box outline is the most frustrating feature of Vuescan. Yes and it bugs me, too. I've sort of learned how to compensate for it but it and the lack of a histogram remain my only two significant complaints about the present version of Vuescan. Otherwise, I think it's a wondeful program and allows me to produce much better scans than I was able to do with the OEM software Minolta and Microtek provide. Jeff Goggin Scottsdale, AZ
re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Rob: have you tired increase the buffer %? Maybe double it do Vuescan ignores #% of the image from the border to make sure it doesn't pick up the black film edge. Alan Vuescan appears to move the whole crop box sometimes when dragging one side. This makes getting the outline right frustrating or impossible. The autocrop doesn't always eliminate strips of black at the edges of a frame, and including them can greatly affect the exposure.
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
In a message dated 5/19/2001 7:05:01 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Am I the only one who has problems with the crop outline in Vuescan? I have been wondering why it is so incredibly difficult to position correctly. Try zooming into the image before dragging the crop outline. In addition, make sure you're using the latest version of VueScan (7.0.21). Regards, Ed Hamrick
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Hi Ed! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try zooming into the image before dragging the crop outline. This helps a bit, but the crop box still has a tendency to jump around when releasing the mouse button after dragging. I don't want to *have* to use the zoom, as each step slows things down. The tendency to jump seems greatest for the top and bottom sides of the box, as well as when moving the whole box to the bottom extremity of the preview. In addition, make sure you're using the latest version of VueScan (7.0.21). It seems a little better but the problem is still there. Regards, Rob
RE: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Rob wrote: Am I the only one who has problems with the crop outline in Vuescan? clip The autocrop doesn't always eliminate strips of black at the edges of a frame, and including them can greatly affect the exposure. Has anyone else experienced this? I'd have to say that the behaviour of the crop box outline is the most frustrating feature of Vuescan. I'm probably being a bit of a Philistine here, but I've never let Vuescan be the Last Call for my images--that right is reserved for me, because it's my d*mned computer and they're my d*mned photos! I *always* do the touchup in another program, and I'm leaning toward doing *all* of the color-correction from Raw scans there, too. Not that Vuescan's correction-algorithms aren't good (they definitely are), but because with the diversity of the shots I take and/or have taken, one size does *not* fit all. Batch scanning, when I can do it at all, usually turns out better from Raw scans, since each picture is different and adjusting every one in Vuescan is...well, you've been there. So clipping and cropping the borders is a minor thing. I never save a Vuescan crop in JPEG, always in TIFF, because it's been shown that the more JPEG saves you make of an image, the more pictorial information (data) you lose, and retouching a TIFF is much easier and more accurate. One scan-driver I sometimes use saves everything in a bit-map form of GIF. I can work with it, but I'd rather have a choice in the matter. In a positive mode, I think that, somehow, Vuescan pumps more light through a piece of film (it probably just slows down the scan speed, in Scanwit, which supposedly has a fixed scan-rate). I wouldn't be without it [Vuescan], but it can sometimes make you a little crazy. Hell, do you think I've ALWAYS been this way?!! ;-) Best regards--LRA --- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Lynn writes ... Rob wrote: Am I the only one who has problems with the crop outline in Vuescan? clip ... I'm probably being a bit of a Philistine here, but I've never let Vuescan be the Last Call for my images-- I suppose I am with Lynn ... afterall, whether you use Vuescan to crop, or not, it still scans the entire frame, simply delivering what's within the area to the cropped file. Lynn I would suggest much better editing tools are available after the scan ... save yourself a headache and use them. (... which, of course, isn't to say Ed should be getting your feedback ... if VS offers area cropping is should be relatively easy to use ...) shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
I suppose I am with Lynn ... afterall, whether you use Vuescan to crop, or not, it still scans the entire frame, simply delivering what's within the area to the cropped file. The problem is the little slivers of black border that are left cause it to calculate the scan exposure incorrectly. To avoid this, I have to crop the image ever so slightly and Vuescan's cropping tool makes this inconvenient. Lynn I would suggest much better editing tools are available after the scan ... save yourself a headache and use them. Yes but this doesn't address the above problem. Jeff Goggin Scottsdale, AZ
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Jeffrey writes ... I suppose I am with Lynn ... afterall, whether you use Vuescan to crop, or not, it still scans the entire frame, simply delivering what's within the area to the cropped file. The problem is the little slivers of black border that are left cause it to calculate the scan exposure incorrectly. To avoid this, I have to crop the image ever so slightly and Vuescan's cropping tool makes this inconvenient. Wouldn't the Vuescan buffer variable solve this problem ... leastwize, I thought that it was its purpose ... set it once ... don't worry about the exposure again(?) shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
From: shAf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 11:43:30 -0700 Jeffrey writes ... I suppose I am with Lynn ... afterall, whether you use Vuescan to crop, or not, it still scans the entire frame, simply delivering what's within the area to the cropped file. The problem is the little slivers of black border that are left cause it to calculate the scan exposure incorrectly. To avoid this, I have to crop the image ever so slightly and Vuescan's cropping tool makes this inconvenient. Wouldn't the Vuescan buffer variable solve this problem ... leastwize, I thought that it was its purpose ... set it once ... don't worry about the exposure again(?) shAf :o) Yup, works for me. My Crop|Buffer setting is 2% (I think the default) and that seems to work well for my full frame crops. A person could probably increase this to 10% to make sure the black can't influence the auto values. Joel W. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: filmscanners: OK, Vuescan is driving me nuts
Lynn Allen: I *always* do the touchup in another program, and I'm leaning toward doing *all* of the color-correction from Raw scans there, too. Is that with slides or negs Lynn? I have been trying some processing of raw neg scans in PS lately, but reproducing the tonal range/gamma that VueScan's crop file achieves is not easy for me. Should I be restoring the full 0 - 255 (or slightly less) range of the RGB channels before or after gamma/ curve correction? Also, presumably it is best to get the Invert function out of the way first, so that you can see what you are doing on a positive image. It is all a bit hit and miss so far. Colin Maddock
