Re: [Finale] 18th Century Horn question
There's a nightmare scenario in one of Graupner's ouvertures. First, it's a draft score (very unsual for him, most everything is fair copy), so the writing is nearly impossible to read. Then Graupner uses a horn in F major, and one in G major and the key of the piece is D major, then he uses bass clef. Then Graupner apparently got confused during the sketching process, and made errors, he was confused which key the horn was in. Oy vey! It took a lot of slaving away on that to get it right (and with the help of three friends). Thanks Kim On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Martin Banner wrote: > I hadn't thought about the possibility of the horn parts being written out > in concert pitch. I have an autograph score of a Credo for double chorus and > orchestra by Giacomo Puccini "senior" where he wrote the tromba and corni in > concert pitch in the full score. > > Martin > > > On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: > >> Sounds like he was writing the horns out in concert pitch (Graupner >> would do that too), but when you look at the parts, they are obviously >> in D major. Here's two samples from the same symphony: >> >> http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale >> >> I hope this helps ;) >> >> Thanks >> Kim >> >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Martin Banner wrote: >>> >>> Alto clef with two sharps, the piece is in D Major, so the strings also >>> have >>> 2 sharps, and so do the horn staves. Wouldn't that make the horns in C, >>> not >>> D? >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Lawrence Yates wrote: >>> If I've got this right, alto clef with 2 sharps looks like horn in D (without the two sharps) If it's for a modern horn player, write it out in treble! Cheers, Lawrence 2009/8/19 Martin Banner > Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? > > I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work > from > 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are > written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so > I > will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note > (in > alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the > first > note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as > written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will > they > sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player > understand > how to play this, or should I re-notate these two horn parts in treble > clef? > > Thanks for your wisdom. > > Martin > > > > > > > > > Martin Banner > mban...@hvc.rr.com > > http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 > > http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search > > http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner > > http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html > > http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= > > http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Martin Banner >>> mban...@hvc.rr.com >>> >>> http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 >>> >>> http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search >>> >>> http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner >>> >>> http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html >>> >>> http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= >>> >>> http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner >>> >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Kim Patrick Clow >> "Just be yourself! Everyone else is taken!" >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > > > > > > Martin Banner > mban...@hvc.rr.com > > http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 > > http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search > > http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner > > http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html > > http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= > > http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Fi
Re: [Finale] 18th Century Horn question
I hadn't thought about the possibility of the horn parts being written out in concert pitch. I have an autograph score of a Credo for double chorus and orchestra by Giacomo Puccini "senior" where he wrote the tromba and corni in concert pitch in the full score. Martin On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: Sounds like he was writing the horns out in concert pitch (Graupner would do that too), but when you look at the parts, they are obviously in D major. Here's two samples from the same symphony: http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale I hope this helps ;) Thanks Kim On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Martin Banner wrote: Alto clef with two sharps, the piece is in D Major, so the strings also have 2 sharps, and so do the horn staves. Wouldn't that make the horns in C, not D? Martin On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Lawrence Yates wrote: If I've got this right, alto clef with 2 sharps looks like horn in D (without the two sharps) If it's for a modern horn player, write it out in treble! Cheers, Lawrence 2009/8/19 Martin Banner Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work from 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so I will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note (in alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the first note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will they sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player understand how to play this, or should I re-notate these two horn parts in treble clef? Thanks for your wisdom. Martin Martin Banner mban...@hvc.rr.com http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Martin Banner mban...@hvc.rr.com http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Kim Patrick Clow "Just be yourself! Everyone else is taken!" ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Martin Banner mban...@hvc.rr.com http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 18th Century Horn question
Sounds like he was writing the horns out in concert pitch (Graupner would do that too), but when you look at the parts, they are obviously in D major. Here's two samples from the same symphony: http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale I hope this helps ;) Thanks Kim On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Martin Banner wrote: > Alto clef with two sharps, the piece is in D Major, so the strings also have > 2 sharps, and so do the horn staves. Wouldn't that make the horns in C, not > D? > > Martin > > > > On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Lawrence Yates wrote: > >> If I've got this right, alto clef with 2 sharps looks like horn in D >> (without the two sharps) >> >> If it's for a modern horn player, write it out in treble! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Lawrence >> >> 2009/8/19 Martin Banner >> >>> Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? >>> >>> I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work from >>> 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are >>> written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so I >>> will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note (in >>> alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the first >>> note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as >>> written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will they >>> sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player understand >>> how to play this, or should I re-notate these two horn parts in treble >>> clef? >>> >>> Thanks for your wisdom. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Martin Banner >>> mban...@hvc.rr.com >>> >>> http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 >>> >>> http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search >>> >>> http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner >>> >>> http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html >>> >>> http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= >>> >>> http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner >>> >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lawrenceyates.co.uk >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > > > > > > Martin Banner > mban...@hvc.rr.com > > http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 > > http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search > > http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner > > http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html > > http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= > > http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > -- Kim Patrick Clow "Just be yourself! Everyone else is taken!" ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 18th Century Horn question
Could you post a screenshot of the part? Just curious. I work a lot with 18th century horn parts and they can be messy. Christoph Graupner would write the horn parts in bass clef an octave lower, then he would copy out the parts in treble clef at the right pitch. I have no idea why he would write the score in one way and do the parts another. It would seem like it would be so easy to make mistakes doing the mental transcription in your head. My editor/publisher wants the scores I prepare to match the manuscript scores, but when parts are created, they can be done in several methods, usually at the request of the person ordering the score/parts. BUT typically the horn parts are moved up to treble clef and are transposed to C. Thanks Kim >> Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? >> >> I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work from >> 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are >> written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so I >> will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note (in >> alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the first >> note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as >> written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will they >> sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player understand >> how to play this, or should I re-notate these two horn parts in treble clef? >> >> Thanks for your wisdom. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin Banner >> mban...@hvc.rr.com >> >> http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 >> >> http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search >> >> http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner >> >> http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html >> >> http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= >> >> http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > > > -- > Lawrenceyates.co.uk > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > -- Kim Patrick Clow "Just be yourself! Everyone else is taken!" ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 18th Century Horn question
Alto clef with two sharps, the piece is in D Major, so the strings also have 2 sharps, and so do the horn staves. Wouldn't that make the horns in C, not D? Martin On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Lawrence Yates wrote: If I've got this right, alto clef with 2 sharps looks like horn in D (without the two sharps) If it's for a modern horn player, write it out in treble! Cheers, Lawrence 2009/8/19 Martin Banner Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work from 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so I will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note (in alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the first note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will they sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player understand how to play this, or should I re-notate these two horn parts in treble clef? Thanks for your wisdom. Martin Martin Banner mban...@hvc.rr.com http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Martin Banner mban...@hvc.rr.com http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 18th Century Horn question
If I've got this right, alto clef with 2 sharps looks like horn in D (without the two sharps) If it's for a modern horn player, write it out in treble! Cheers, Lawrence 2009/8/19 Martin Banner > Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? > > I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work from > 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are > written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so I > will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note (in > alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the first > note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as > written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will they > sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player understand > how to play this, or should I re-notate these two horn parts in treble clef? > > Thanks for your wisdom. > > Martin > > > > > > > > > Martin Banner > mban...@hvc.rr.com > > http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 > > http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search > > http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner > > http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html > > http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= > > http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 18th Century Horn question
Are there any 18th Century horn specialists on this list? I have an autograph manuscript of a combined choral/orchestral work from 18th Century Italy. The piece is in D major and the two horn parts are written in alto clef. There are two sharps written in for the horns, so I will assume these are horns in C. For the first horn, the first note (in alto clef) is F#, written on fourth space. For the second horn, the first note is D (in alto clef), written on the third space. When played as written, will these sound as F# and D right above middle C, or will they sound in a different octave? Will a trained modern horn player understand how to play this, or should I re- notate these two horn parts in treble clef? Thanks for your wisdom. Martin Martin Banner mban...@hvc.rr.com http://www.alliancemusic.com/peopledetails.cfm?iPeopleID=22 http://hinshawmusic.com/search_results.php?keyword=banner&search=Search http://collavoce.com/search.php?cmd=search&mode=normal&words=Banner http://sbmp.com/SeeItNowFolder/SeeItNowMen.html http://carlfischer.com/Fischer/search.cfm?cfT=&cfC=Banner&cfID= http://lorenz.com/results.aspx?srch=quick&cid=Martin+Banner ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinWin 2010 startup freeze [Vista SP2]
On 2009/08/18(火), at 後12:28, David W. Fenton wrote: My understanding was that on the Mac the preferences were as binary file, and thus, not susceptible to being edited in part. Maybe I'm wrong on that? You are correct in case of Finale. Since OSX, Apple has been encouraging developers to replace bin pref with XML, the plist. Many apps dated before OSX have note been moved out of bin pref file format, where the trouble occurs. If the developer closes pref file every time user chose to save the pref, like FinMac has such option, then crash won't corrupt pref file, while most of developers choose to close the pref file at its exit. Open/close often during a session may cause performance hit. If crash happens before closing, the pref file will be corrupt. The puzzling part of FinMac is that it seems they are keep opening it till exit even though they added Save Pref menu. I constantly have to trash FinMac pref file because it gets corrupted so easily when I move default window position around. This is a known bug to MM. Unfortunately FinMac keeps both bin pref and XML plist, the former records recent open files, and latter records last used directory. I think they need to do some cleaning up to do in this department. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Greater Boston http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
