Re: [Finale] fun with MIDI/composer-client public relations
Michael, You could provide the straight-out-of-Finale MIDI free of charge, but charge for any modifications to this. Hopefully, that deterrent (if the scale of charges are appropriate) would remove/reduce the requests and if not, at least you would be paid for the work. Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Category break multimeas rests
Hi Robert, Is there a reason why it would be a big deal to uncouple the positioning? Even when you uncheck the box, the expression's positioning defaults to the category defaults until you change anything, right? A bigger problem is that I find that the "break multimeasure rests checkbox item does not, in fact, reliably break multimeasure rests. I still find I have to use barline attributes for that. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 27 Sep 2012, at 7:00 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > I have an expression category that does not use a staff list, but I would > like it to break multimeas rests on any staff where it is assigned. I can't > seem to find a way to do this unless I uncouple the expression's > positioning from its category. Does anyone have help? A plugin maybe? It > seems like an arbitrary restriction of the UI. > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] multimeasure rests in linked part with voices
There is a Staff Style, called Blank Notation with Rests Layer 1. Apply in the part, TO THE PART ONLY, and then you will able to make a multimeasure rest with those measures IN THE PART ONLY. There is another one for Layer 4, but none for Layer 2, AFAIK, so you'll have to create it if you ever have Clar 1 playing while Clar 2 rests. Check the other one to see what they did. Christopher On Thu Sep 27, at ThursdaySep 27 7:38 PM, Ryan wrote: > Clarinets 1 and 2 share a line in the score. > The voices are specified like this for the linked parts: > > Clarinet 1 > Selected Notes from one or more layers > 1st Note > Include Single Note Passages > Display Layer 1 > > Clarinet 2 > Selected Notes from one or more layers > 2nd Note > Include Single Note Passages > Display Layer 2 > > Here's the situation: Clarinet 1 rests for two bars while Clarinet 2 plays. > I entered Clarinet 2's music in Layer 2, with nothing in Layer 1. In the > part, I'd like a two bar rest to show for Clarinet 1, but it's showing the > music in Layer 2 (because that's how it's defined). If I enter real whole > rests in layer one, then the music in Layer 2 won't display (which is what > I want) but then I can't get a multimeasure rest. > > Aside from extracting the parts, is there a solution to this? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] multimeasure rests in linked part with voices
Clarinets 1 and 2 share a line in the score. The voices are specified like this for the linked parts: Clarinet 1 Selected Notes from one or more layers 1st Note Include Single Note Passages Display Layer 1 Clarinet 2 Selected Notes from one or more layers 2nd Note Include Single Note Passages Display Layer 2 Here's the situation: Clarinet 1 rests for two bars while Clarinet 2 plays. I entered Clarinet 2's music in Layer 2, with nothing in Layer 1. In the part, I'd like a two bar rest to show for Clarinet 1, but it's showing the music in Layer 2 (because that's how it's defined). If I enter real whole rests in layer one, then the music in Layer 2 won't display (which is what I want) but then I can't get a multimeasure rest. Aside from extracting the parts, is there a solution to this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Category break multimeas rests
I have an expression category that does not use a staff list, but I would like it to break multimeas rests on any staff where it is assigned. I can't seem to find a way to do this unless I uncouple the expression's positioning from its category. Does anyone have help? A plugin maybe? It seems like an arbitrary restriction of the UI. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] fun with MIDI/composer-client public relations
I think you told him that you weren't going to be massaging the MIDI (for whatever reason) and he has to accept that. If he wants you to do it (and you accept) then you should charge more money. If he doesn't like the additional expense, or if you aren't willing to do it, he can find someone else to do it, which shouldn't be very difficult. It IS fairly easy in Finale to get those things to play back better, though. The Create Tremolo in TG Tools mutes the notation and creates a playback passage in an hidden layer, so it is a one-step solution. The Tap Tempo function can let someone tap a key in the tempo needed to create more musical rits, etc. I often have similar discussions with clients. They are unwilling to sign off on anything that doesn't play back perfectly, regardless of the notation, or they are insistent on the real musicians playing something exactly like it was executed in MIDI. You just have to be more persuasive with the client, otherwise they will blame you for their lack of understanding. When I started out, I wanted to be the "can do!" guy, so I rarely spoke up. When I tentatively suggested once that another solution might be preferable, I was steamrolled over, and I backed down. When the project came to realisation and the place that I knew would be a problem WAS a problem, I pointed it out. The leader blamed me for not speaking up. I said I did speak up, and he said, "You should have been more convincing." He was right. He didn't need me to yell, he just needed me to make my reasons known in a way that he would understand. Christopher On Thu Sep 27, at ThursdaySep 27 8:34 AM, delius...@aol.com wrote: > What has happened is he has latched onto the idea that the MIDI is this > perfect demonstration of his music, so if anything sounds a little off to him > > (not note-wise, mind you, but tempo), he goes crazy and starts asking me to > alter where things go. I told him, for instance, that a rit. is a rit. as > far as Finale analyzes things, that it doesn't know poco and molto unless > they're programmed, and, again, I ain't doin' it! So, in one movement, > there are tremolos between two chords, and we know how the convention goes > for > how they are written; these particular ones fill big measures (12/4) > bars), so there are lots of double whole notes. Finale looks at these and > is > literally playing one set of whole notes and then the other set of whole > notes, and it doesn't know how to tremolo so it sounds pretty silly. I > received this note concerning these bars: ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] fun with MIDI/composer-client public relations
> From my > corres-pondence with other pianists, I get the impression that they like to > rely > on the MIDI to help them learn a piece faster. Hell no! Not me nor any other professional pianist.. Never! Steve P. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] fun with MIDI/composer-client public relations
On 2012-09-27 14:34, delius...@aol.com wrote: > I'm glad I had the chance to vent; anyone care to comment on this? Finale "knows" lots more about these problems than you state. If you'd be using HP in the last couple of Finale versions, these things should not happen. IIRC, HP understood tremolo markings in its very first version. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] fun with MIDI/composer-client public relations
Dear Michael, You have my sympathy. I wish I had a helpful response, but you can only be responsible for the clarity of your explanation of the limitations of MIDI playback and what it takes to make it resemble music. You cannot be responsible for how that may be perceived (and misunderstood) by your client. As playback from notation improves, and Robert Piechaud has done remarkable work, expectations increase unrealistically. In a way, the people who spend time and energy exploring how to massage MIDI files into something that approaches human performance are engaged in the study of robotics, another pursuit and area of expertise. When I wrote an arranging book with examples that play back (for Gary Garritan), he found someone who worked on the notation files - making them at least a recognizable sketch of the music - something like the sketches the police use in an attempt to find a suspect. Even that takes hours of skilled work. I could expand on this subject - how it represents an impoverishment of the understanding of music (as I experience it), but I doubt that it will convince your client. This is a philosophical dilemma. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 5:34 AM, wrote: > Dear Finalelist, > > I am happy to report that my situation from the summer resolved itself > amicably, so thanks to everyone who gave me advice on that aspect. > > I have a new issue, different, but concerning, all the same. I'm working > on engraving a piano sonata for someone who advertised through the > Orchestralist that I contacted. Actually, they were looking to have it > recorded, > and when it was sent, I told him it needed engraving, first. This person > seems to be a journeyman composer, and frequently isn't even sure of what he > wants, so somewhere along the way he asked me to create MIDI files for him. > I told him I would give them to him at no extra charge, but I wasn't > responsible for how they sounded, as I wasn't being paid, nor is there enough > > time in the day, to worry about programming human-style playback as far as > I'm concerned. I mean, it's a piano sonata, not an orchestral piece, and > these were in preparation for someone making actual recordings. > > What has happened is he has latched onto the idea that the MIDI is this > perfect demonstration of his music, so if anything sounds a little off to him > > (not note-wise, mind you, but tempo), he goes crazy and starts asking me to > alter where things go. I told him, for instance, that a rit. is a rit. as > far as Finale analyzes things, that it doesn't know poco and molto unless > they're programmed, and, again, I ain't doin' it! So, in one movement, > there are tremolos between two chords, and we know how the convention goes > for > how they are written; these particular ones fill big measures (12/4) > bars), so there are lots of double whole notes. Finale looks at these and > is > literally playing one set of whole notes and then the other set of whole > notes, and it doesn't know how to tremolo so it sounds pretty silly. I > received this note concerning these bars: > > > > It troubles me a little, however, to have the MIDI misreading your score > so that it comes out sounding differently from what I meant. From my > corres-pondence with other pianists, I get the impression that they like to > rely > on the MIDI to help them learn a piece faster. Thus, if the MIDI gives the > wrong impression it could confuse them, or cause them to have to unlearn the > slow tempo after they have learned it, which could waste a lot of time. > Can you find a way to notate it so that the MIDI plays it right? Listening > to > it a few more times, I think the whole section with the tremolos (meas. 61 > to 68) is slowed down to half the tempo I intended. Is there nothing can > be done about this? > I told him that this would be an issue, and he still isn't listening to > me. I really can't believe that the pianists he picked are so stupid (yes, > I > said it) that they can't learn the music from looking at the score rather > than relying on a computer-generated sound file. I'm at a loss to know how > to respond; this is probably the fourth time he's told me the MIDI is > right and I need to change something to make the MIDI better, that the MIDI > is > more accurate than I give it credit for, etc, etc. In this case there > isn't a thing I can do for him; the convention is the convention. Let me > iterate that these are in about four bars of music that is causing this > major > concern for him. Again, how stupid can these performers be? Count and > figure it out! He's given metronome markings, so just play the blasted note > values! I censored myself, there, if you hadn't noticed. > I'm glad I had the chance to vent; anyone care to comment on this? I'm > about to tell him to just forget it as this is taking wa
[Finale] fun with MIDI/composer-client public relations
Dear Finalelist, I am happy to report that my situation from the summer resolved itself amicably, so thanks to everyone who gave me advice on that aspect. I have a new issue, different, but concerning, all the same. I'm working on engraving a piano sonata for someone who advertised through the Orchestralist that I contacted. Actually, they were looking to have it recorded, and when it was sent, I told him it needed engraving, first. This person seems to be a journeyman composer, and frequently isn't even sure of what he wants, so somewhere along the way he asked me to create MIDI files for him. I told him I would give them to him at no extra charge, but I wasn't responsible for how they sounded, as I wasn't being paid, nor is there enough time in the day, to worry about programming human-style playback as far as I'm concerned. I mean, it's a piano sonata, not an orchestral piece, and these were in preparation for someone making actual recordings. What has happened is he has latched onto the idea that the MIDI is this perfect demonstration of his music, so if anything sounds a little off to him (not note-wise, mind you, but tempo), he goes crazy and starts asking me to alter where things go. I told him, for instance, that a rit. is a rit. as far as Finale analyzes things, that it doesn't know poco and molto unless they're programmed, and, again, I ain't doin' it! So, in one movement, there are tremolos between two chords, and we know how the convention goes for how they are written; these particular ones fill big measures (12/4) bars), so there are lots of double whole notes. Finale looks at these and is literally playing one set of whole notes and then the other set of whole notes, and it doesn't know how to tremolo so it sounds pretty silly. I received this note concerning these bars: It troubles me a little, however, to have the MIDI misreading your score so that it comes out sounding differently from what I meant. From my corres-pondence with other pianists, I get the impression that they like to rely on the MIDI to help them learn a piece faster. Thus, if the MIDI gives the wrong impression it could confuse them, or cause them to have to unlearn the slow tempo after they have learned it, which could waste a lot of time. Can you find a way to notate it so that the MIDI plays it right? Listening to it a few more times, I think the whole section with the tremolos (meas. 61 to 68) is slowed down to half the tempo I intended. Is there nothing can be done about this? I told him that this would be an issue, and he still isn't listening to me. I really can't believe that the pianists he picked are so stupid (yes, I said it) that they can't learn the music from looking at the score rather than relying on a computer-generated sound file. I'm at a loss to know how to respond; this is probably the fourth time he's told me the MIDI is right and I need to change something to make the MIDI better, that the MIDI is more accurate than I give it credit for, etc, etc. In this case there isn't a thing I can do for him; the convention is the convention. Let me iterate that these are in about four bars of music that is causing this major concern for him. Again, how stupid can these performers be? Count and figure it out! He's given metronome markings, so just play the blasted note values! I censored myself, there, if you hadn't noticed. I'm glad I had the chance to vent; anyone care to comment on this? I'm about to tell him to just forget it as this is taking way too much time for the way too little money I asked for to do this, anyway. Thanks in advance, as always! Michael Wittenburg ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
