Re: [Finale] Dorico 2
David's post here could almost have been written by me (except that I only started using Finale at version 3.5). I bought version 1 of Dorico, and I immediately purchased version 2. What I find interesting is that there are parallels in the development of Dorico and the development of Sibelius, most notably the playback of repeat structures. Version 2 can now handle 1st/2nd ending repeats, but still can't handle D.S. or D.C. That was true of Sibelius version 2 for Windows (and presumably for Mac since both versions seem always to have been in lock-step with each other). I believe D.S., D.C. playback in Sibelius came with version 3 if I remember correctly. Either that or version 4. I didn't become a serious Sibelius user until version 5. I have done very little with Dorico so far since it's new workflow seems very alien to my way of thinking and I haven't had the time to sit down and do more than a couple of small projects with it. That parallels my experience with Sibelius, which I first purchased with version 2 for Windows on a cross-grade special, same as I did for Dorico version 1. It wasn't until Sibelius version 5 that I sat down and learned the program as a brand new program instead of trying to use "finale-think" and getting frustrated because that wasn't how Sibelius worked. Now I find I'm using a combination of "finale-think" and "sibelius-think" whenever I start up Dorico so I know I'm going to have to sit down and start from scratch with Dorico. The manual is still only at version 1, so I hope they bring out version 2 of the manual quickly. Like David Froom, I am supporting Dorico because I have confidence in Daniel Spreadbury and the development team, many of whom were with Danieal at Sibelius. And the updates they released for version 1 each brought major new capabilities and bug-fixes with them. I am confident this pattern will continue through each new version. And since Steinberg already owns Dorico we don't have to worry about it being sold off to a major DAW producer such as Avid, which might not care as much about the development, or sold to some totally unrelated sports training company as happened with Finale. I am confident that Dorico is here to stay. While I'm disappointed that the major thrust of Dorico version 2 seems to be scoring to video, I realize that's a very large and growing segment of the notation/composition software market so it should be a means to even better cementing Dorico's future. One major thing which Dorico did when it released version 2 for Dorico is that they now have a lighter version called Dorico Elements at a more entry level price point. At only $99 for the full version it's a great tool for people who only work on small projects (up to 12 staves) but also a great way for people not to spend too much and find out if the Dorico workflow is good for them. They have also implemented really refined midi control, large time signatures, rhythm slashes and repeat bars (don't play back yet but that's promised for soon), measure repeats (single, double, quadruple), a new handwritten font (Petaluma), plus countless "under the hood" tweaks, bug-fixes, etc. They have provided an extensive library of video tutorials also. So I'll wait and see how things develop. But for now, I have confidence it will continue to grow and develop into the truly full-fledged notation program that will give Sibelius and Finale a run for their money! David H. Bailey On 5/31/2018 2:18 PM, dfr...@smcm.edu wrote: I bought Dorico when it came out, and have been learning it, on and off. Generally, I’ve stopped when I encounter a problem, confirm with John Barron or Daniel Spreadbury that my problem is something not yet addressed. Then, when an update comes out (there have been 3 or 4 free updates — this one was paid), I take it up again. Rinse and repeat. There is nothing Dorico does that Finale can’t do. I began with Finale at 1.0, so I know its DNA, and can usually guess what to do to solve whatever needs solving. That said, there are some remarkable things about Dorico, and it may indeed by my go-to program. But not yet. The font is beautiful. The default notation and layout choices — all of which can be overridden — are almost all really smart ones. So, generally speaking, out of the box, things look great. The program is stable and launches quickly. You get only one computer-based license, and if you want to move from computer to computer regularly, you need to put the license on a dongle. You don’t need a dongle if you can use it on only one computer. Things that are faster in Dorico: The new divisi, which is quite good. The same method can handle ossias. Also pianos adding and dropping staves. Quick to implement, easy to use, easy to edit. Pedalling (piano and vibes) of any style is amazingly easy to use. Note spacing algorithms are quite good. I find only a very few things I need to fix.
Re: [Finale] Dorico 2
I’m not anywhere near switching, but I’ve been following Dorico’s development with more than a little interest. Such informative posts like this one are quite useful and much appreciated - thanks for such a detailed, well-thought-out, well-stated comparison and review. Doug > On May 31, 2018, at 11:18 AM, dfr...@smcm.edu wrote: > > I bought Dorico when it came out, and have been learning it, on and off. > Generally, I’ve stopped when I encounter a problem, confirm with John Barron > or Daniel Spreadbury that my problem is something not yet addressed. Then, > when an update comes out (there have been 3 or 4 free updates — this one was > paid), I take it up again. Rinse and repeat. > > There is nothing Dorico does that Finale can’t do. I began with Finale at > 1.0, so I know its DNA, and can usually guess what to do to solve whatever > needs solving. That said, there are some remarkable things about Dorico, and > it may indeed by my go-to program. But not yet. > > The font is beautiful. The default notation and layout choices — all of which > can be overridden — are almost all really smart ones. So, generally speaking, > out of the box, things look great. The program is stable and launches > quickly. You get only one computer-based license, and if you want to move > from computer to computer regularly, you need to put the license on a dongle. > You don’t need a dongle if you can use it on only one computer. > > Things that are faster in Dorico: > > The new divisi, which is quite good. The same method can handle ossias. Also > pianos adding and dropping staves. Quick to implement, easy to use, easy to > edit. > > Pedalling (piano and vibes) of any style is amazingly easy to use. > > Note spacing algorithms are quite good. I find only a very few things I need > to fix. > > General layout control — what goes where on what page — is a bit hard to > learn, but once you have it, the control you have is astonishing. > > Cross-measure beaming is a snap. This (and other things) arise from Dorico > not thinking in terms of measures, but flows of notes. It knows the rules — > but you can change or insert meter changes at any time — or work without > meter — and Dorico rebeams properly. And, of course, things can be overridden. > > Keyboard shortcuts are customizable — all of them. So I changed them to match > my Finale habits, and had to learn very few (to match the Dorico conception > for things like tuplets, dynamics, and a few other things). I find I was > able, after doing a short piece or two, to get my speed up to my Finale speed. > > Every user wants different things. For me, the last two deal-breakers are: > > You can’t have two (or more) instruments on a single staff and then break > them out into separate parts in the parts layout. I’m shocked that this is > still so, given that they clearly want to sell to people doing large ensemble > composing/arranging. I HAVE to assume this will be fixed soon, but it > seriously isn’t there — and there is no easy workaround (other than separate > files). > > Playback doesn’t read trills nor string harmonics (tremolos are fine). I am > led to believe that NotePerformer is as good as Garritan? I don’t know this > first hand, but that’s what people say (actually, they say it is better). > That’s now being integrated (though a separate purchase), so, generally > speaking, playback should be good. They provide a way to use Garritan, but it > is not simple to do, and I’ve not figured out how to get Garritan to work as > well as is does with Finale. Dorico people acknowledge that the problems with > all of this are on their end. > > I paid for the first version because I want to support their efforts and > continuing development. I believe Steinberg was forcing them to release this > to prove they were going to start to recoup their investment. I bought the > upgrade because I want to continue supporting them, and every release so far > has been a big step forward. They are getting close. > > The other reason I paid up is that I got a great deal — academic cross-grade > — on the initial purchase. On the upgrade, they had shown that they have > committed themselves to fix things continuously, acknowledge the > shortcomings, and release multiple, substantial improvements for free for a > good long time (about a year?). They also have fabulous communication — > especially Daniel Spreadbury and John Barron, both of whom are looped > completely into the development of the program, both of whom are completely > honest (and humble), and both of whom seem to respond within minutes to > queries that come in 24/7. > > My two cents, > David Froom > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Final
Re: [Finale] Dorico 2
I bought Dorico when it came out, and have been learning it, on and off. Generally, I’ve stopped when I encounter a problem, confirm with John Barron or Daniel Spreadbury that my problem is something not yet addressed. Then, when an update comes out (there have been 3 or 4 free updates — this one was paid), I take it up again. Rinse and repeat. There is nothing Dorico does that Finale can’t do. I began with Finale at 1.0, so I know its DNA, and can usually guess what to do to solve whatever needs solving. That said, there are some remarkable things about Dorico, and it may indeed by my go-to program. But not yet. The font is beautiful. The default notation and layout choices — all of which can be overridden — are almost all really smart ones. So, generally speaking, out of the box, things look great. The program is stable and launches quickly. You get only one computer-based license, and if you want to move from computer to computer regularly, you need to put the license on a dongle. You don’t need a dongle if you can use it on only one computer. Things that are faster in Dorico: The new divisi, which is quite good. The same method can handle ossias. Also pianos adding and dropping staves. Quick to implement, easy to use, easy to edit. Pedalling (piano and vibes) of any style is amazingly easy to use. Note spacing algorithms are quite good. I find only a very few things I need to fix. General layout control — what goes where on what page — is a bit hard to learn, but once you have it, the control you have is astonishing. Cross-measure beaming is a snap. This (and other things) arise from Dorico not thinking in terms of measures, but flows of notes. It knows the rules — but you can change or insert meter changes at any time — or work without meter — and Dorico rebeams properly. And, of course, things can be overridden. Keyboard shortcuts are customizable — all of them. So I changed them to match my Finale habits, and had to learn very few (to match the Dorico conception for things like tuplets, dynamics, and a few other things). I find I was able, after doing a short piece or two, to get my speed up to my Finale speed. Every user wants different things. For me, the last two deal-breakers are: You can’t have two (or more) instruments on a single staff and then break them out into separate parts in the parts layout. I’m shocked that this is still so, given that they clearly want to sell to people doing large ensemble composing/arranging. I HAVE to assume this will be fixed soon, but it seriously isn’t there — and there is no easy workaround (other than separate files). Playback doesn’t read trills nor string harmonics (tremolos are fine). I am led to believe that NotePerformer is as good as Garritan? I don’t know this first hand, but that’s what people say (actually, they say it is better). That’s now being integrated (though a separate purchase), so, generally speaking, playback should be good. They provide a way to use Garritan, but it is not simple to do, and I’ve not figured out how to get Garritan to work as well as is does with Finale. Dorico people acknowledge that the problems with all of this are on their end. I paid for the first version because I want to support their efforts and continuing development. I believe Steinberg was forcing them to release this to prove they were going to start to recoup their investment. I bought the upgrade because I want to continue supporting them, and every release so far has been a big step forward. They are getting close. The other reason I paid up is that I got a great deal — academic cross-grade — on the initial purchase. On the upgrade, they had shown that they have committed themselves to fix things continuously, acknowledge the shortcomings, and release multiple, substantial improvements for free for a good long time (about a year?). They also have fabulous communication — especially Daniel Spreadbury and John Barron, both of whom are looped completely into the development of the program, both of whom are completely honest (and humble), and both of whom seem to respond within minutes to queries that come in 24/7. My two cents, David Froom ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Dorico 2
I mean, Finale is capable of producing all the results shown in the "Smart Staff Management" video. But the U.I. for doing it can be quite laborious. On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Will Roberts wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Sure, I found it here: > > https://www.dorico.com/new-in-2/ > > Looks like it's on YouTube here: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp8qDzPA77A > > I also saw some worked-through examples in the review on Scoring Notes.com. > > I'm right in saying that Finale has nothing like this, right? Or did I > miss the memo? > > Best, > -WR > > -- > Will Roberts > whrcompo...@fastmail.fm > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, at 7:01 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > > Could you send a link to the demo? I would be interested in seeing how > > sting divisi are handled. > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 5:11 AM, Will Roberts > > wrote: > > > > > Did anybody else get an email from Steinberg yesterday about the new > > > version of Dorico? I tried the first version out about a year ago but > > > didn't buy it at the time. Interested to check it out again now. > > > > > > The main new features are for composing to picture and playback > > > automation, which doesn't interest me, but it looks like the slashes > and > > > ditto bars are pretty neat. For me the thing that looks really > interesting > > > is the way string divisi is handled – I would love to have a tool like > that > > > in Finale. Maybe it's already possible and I'm just too dumb to figure > it > > > out! > > > > > > No trial version yet, though, so I can't see if it works as well as the > > > demos make it look! > > > > > > Best, > > > -WR > > > > > > -- > > > Will Roberts > > > whrcompo...@fastmail.fm > > > > > > ___ > > > Finale mailing list > > > Finale@shsu.edu > > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > > > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > > ___ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.edu > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Dorico 2
Hi Robert, Sure, I found it here: https://www.dorico.com/new-in-2/ Looks like it's on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp8qDzPA77A I also saw some worked-through examples in the review on Scoring Notes.com. I'm right in saying that Finale has nothing like this, right? Or did I miss the memo? Best, -WR -- Will Roberts whrcompo...@fastmail.fm On Thu, May 31, 2018, at 7:01 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Could you send a link to the demo? I would be interested in seeing how > sting divisi are handled. > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 5:11 AM, Will Roberts > wrote: > > > Did anybody else get an email from Steinberg yesterday about the new > > version of Dorico? I tried the first version out about a year ago but > > didn't buy it at the time. Interested to check it out again now. > > > > The main new features are for composing to picture and playback > > automation, which doesn't interest me, but it looks like the slashes and > > ditto bars are pretty neat. For me the thing that looks really interesting > > is the way string divisi is handled – I would love to have a tool like that > > in Finale. Maybe it's already possible and I'm just too dumb to figure it > > out! > > > > No trial version yet, though, so I can't see if it works as well as the > > demos make it look! > > > > Best, > > -WR > > > > -- > > Will Roberts > > whrcompo...@fastmail.fm > > > > ___ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.edu > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Dorico 2
Could you send a link to the demo? I would be interested in seeing how sting divisi are handled. On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 5:11 AM, Will Roberts wrote: > Did anybody else get an email from Steinberg yesterday about the new > version of Dorico? I tried the first version out about a year ago but > didn't buy it at the time. Interested to check it out again now. > > The main new features are for composing to picture and playback > automation, which doesn't interest me, but it looks like the slashes and > ditto bars are pretty neat. For me the thing that looks really interesting > is the way string divisi is handled – I would love to have a tool like that > in Finale. Maybe it's already possible and I'm just too dumb to figure it > out! > > No trial version yet, though, so I can't see if it works as well as the > demos make it look! > > Best, > -WR > > -- > Will Roberts > whrcompo...@fastmail.fm > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
[Finale] Dorico 2
Did anybody else get an email from Steinberg yesterday about the new version of Dorico? I tried the first version out about a year ago but didn't buy it at the time. Interested to check it out again now. The main new features are for composing to picture and playback automation, which doesn't interest me, but it looks like the slashes and ditto bars are pretty neat. For me the thing that looks really interesting is the way string divisi is handled – I would love to have a tool like that in Finale. Maybe it's already possible and I'm just too dumb to figure it out! No trial version yet, though, so I can't see if it works as well as the demos make it look! Best, -WR -- Will Roberts whrcompo...@fastmail.fm ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
