Re: [Finale] Printing: off topic

[Bill Baker]

On Tue Aug 21 09:27:02 CDT 2018, Lawrence David Eden wrote:

I have a question regarding my Brother laser printer.  It was a low end model 
HL-L2315DW <https://www.brother-usa.com/products/HLL2315DW>
The printer used to handle two sided copying with ease, but now I get a paper 
jam every time the first sheet is pulled back into the printer.

I am sure that I am not the first to experience this annoyance and am looking 
forward to a suggestion as to how to fix.


Thanks,
Larry
It sounds like there is a piece of paper stuck in the printer.  Not 
necessarily an entire 8.5x11 piece, as a small fragment can cause this 
to happen.  Usually it's just a matter of taking out the cartridges and 
opening it up until you find it.  If not, you may need to contact a 
computer repair tech to get it out.  But every time I've come across 
this situation, if I looked hard enough, I'd find the errant paper 
without needing a professional to disassemble it.


--Bill
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Re: [Finale] to upgrade or not...

[Bill Baker]

On July 12, 2016 at 1:16:37 PM, Johannes Gebauer ([1]li...@musikmanufaktur.com)
 wrote:

I am wondering whether I should upgrade my ancient version of Finale
(2k9) to the current. Can someone outline in some brief words what I
will gain apart from retina support (which may well be worth it just by
itself...)

Thanks,
Johannes

   Just putting my 2 cents in here, I have not upgraded since 2001, and if I
   upgrade I am definitely going to wait for the 64-bit version.  I just hope
   upgrading will solve my problem of needing to have the CD handy every single
   time I want to run the program.

References

   1. https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
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Re: [Finale] Vertical Text

[Bill Baker]

Pardon me, but what about using Microsoft Word, or any other word
processing program for this?  If the title page has no music on it,
that's how I would do it, rather than trying to force Finale to do
something it wasn't designed to do.  The right tool for the right job,
and all.  As long as it looks good when it prints out.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:10:06, Ryan Beard  wrote:
>
>
> Yes I know I can do that. But I have linked parts and adding an invisible 
> first measure creates too many other problems to overcome. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> > On Oct 7, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Barbara Touburg  wrote:
>> > 
>>> >> On 7-10-2015 21:48, Ryan wrote:
>>> >> The text will appear on a cover page. Custom Smart Shapes are required to
>>> >> be attached to a staff. There is no music on the page, so there is 
>>> >> nothing
>>> >> to attach the shape.
>> > 
>> > Not necessarily so.
>> > Insert a measure before the first measure. Insert the title page before 
>> > the first page. Move the inserted first measure to the title page 
>> > (insert a system break and a page break).
>> > Change the first inserted measure to invisible using a staff style 
>> > (check: force hide staff: cutaway).
>> > Attach your smart shape. It will show. I've just checked it and it works.
>> > ___
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>> > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> > 
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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

OK, I tried that, but when I enter a D below the bass clef staff, then
turn on percussion style playback and select my map, it goes to the
space below the 10th ledger line below the staff.  If I use the D on the
bass clef staff, it shows up where I want it to, but no sound comes
out.  When I turn on the percussion style for that, the notes go to the
7th ledger line below the staff again.  But it does sound like a snare drum.

On June 1, 2014, at 3:40 AM, Peter Taylor pe...@euphonium.plus.com   wrote:
 As I said before, change the notation style to Standard, so you're not using 
 a map, and use a normal bass clef.  Then you'll be able to enter notes on 
 the staff in their positions according to their MIDI numbers.  Note 38 is 
 D2, which is the D space below the bass clef staff.

 Once you've entered all the notes on your drum staff the sounds will be 
 correct but the staff positions all wrong.  This is where the map comes in. 
 Turn the Percussion style back on and play around with your map to move the 
 notes to the staff positions you want.

 Peter


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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

OK, I followed your instructions exactly, and the same thing happened. 
Then I followed your instructions on a new document with a single staff
line and it worked perfectly.  I then created a whole new score, pasted
the other parts from the old score to the new score (except for the
snare drum line) and went to work on the snare drum line, doing it
exactly the same way.  The notes then jumped ten ledger lines below the
staff and don't sound anything like a snare drum.

WHAT?!!! (insert Jackie Chan meme image)

On June 1, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Peter Taylor pe...@euphonium.plus.com   wrote:
 Golden Rule (not to be broken):

 ** Do not enter notes on the percussion staff while you have a map applied. 
 **

 They most likely won't sound correctly, or maybe not sound at all.  This is 
 why you're not hearing anything on D1, which should be a High Tom.  Always 
 enter the notes as I described, in Standard notation style, and remember 
 what I said about the black notes.

 The notes are jumping way below the staff because you haven't configured the 
 map properly.  The maps are not pre-configured.  Once you've entered all the 
 notes on the staff in standard style, make a list of all the different MIDI 
 note numbers you've used, and only then can you go on to edit your map.

 In the map edit window, click on each note number you've used in the list to 
 highlight it and then check the Highlighted Note box, which places an 
 asterisk against it.  You can give it a name if you wish, then drag the 
 handle up or down to the required position on the staff and choose the 
 closed and open notehead shapes you want for it.  Do this routine for every 
 MIDI note number you've used.  When you exit the edit window and choose 
 Select, the notes will jump to the positions and shapes you've set and the 
 playback will still be correct.

 You can always add different sounds later if you want, but *always do it in 
 Standard style* and then edit the map again.

 Good luck!

 Peter


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[Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

I'm a casual user of Finale and I haven't upgraded since 2001, but I'm
trying to figure out how to enter percussion parts so that they'll play
back correctly.  What I've done so far is to enter a note on a staff and
test its playback.  If what I get isn't the correct sound, I'll drag it
to a different position in speedy entry, listening to all the sounds it
plays while I'm dragging the note.  However, none of the sounds are of a
snare drum.  Is that sound really so rare that Finale didn't include it
in its percussion sounds?  The instrument list says I'm using Standard
Kit on channel 10, program 1.  I've tried to find the answer online and
in the documentation, but everything I've read tells me to build my own
percussion library with no specific instructions on how to do it.  Can
anyone help me with this?

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Re: [Finale] Finale Digest, Vol 130, Issue 25

[Bill Baker]

   That sounds like a whistle to me.

   On 05/31/2014 01:00 PM, dershem [1]ders...@cox.net  wrote:

On 5/31/2014 10:46 AM, Bill Baker wrote:
 I'm a casual user of Finale and I haven't upgraded since 2001, but I'm
 trying to figure out how to enter percussion parts so that they'll play
 back correctly.  What I've done so far is to enter a note on a staff and
 test its playback.  If what I get isn't the correct sound, I'll drag it
 to a different position in speedy entry, listening to all the sounds it
 plays while I'm dragging the note.  However, none of the sounds are of a
 snare drum.  Is that sound really so rare that Finale didn't include it
 in its percussion sounds?  The instrument list says I'm using Standard
 Kit on channel 10, program 1.  I've tried to find the answer online and
 in the documentation, but everything I've read tells me to build my own
 percussion library with no specific instructions on how to do it.  Can
 anyone help me with this?

Snare drum is usually found on space 3.

cd

References

   1. mailto:ders...@cox.net
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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

Sorry, I meant to reply to this one.

   That sounds like a whistle to me.

   On 05/31/2014 01:00 PM, dershem [1]dershem at cox.net  wrote:

On 5/31/2014 10:46 AM, Bill Baker wrote:
 I'm a casual user of Finale and I haven't upgraded since 2001, but I'm
 trying to figure out how to enter percussion parts so that they'll play
 back correctly.  What I've done so far is to enter a note on a staff and
 test its playback.  If what I get isn't the correct sound, I'll drag it
 to a different position in speedy entry, listening to all the sounds it
 plays while I'm dragging the note.  However, none of the sounds are of a
 snare drum.  Is that sound really so rare that Finale didn't include it
 in its percussion sounds?  The instrument list says I'm using Standard
 Kit on channel 10, program 1.  I've tried to find the answer online and
 in the documentation, but everything I've read tells me to build my own
 percussion library with no specific instructions on how to do it.  Can
 anyone help me with this?

Snare drum is usually found on space 3.

cd

References

   1. https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

   I just found a note on the 7th ledger line below the staff that sounds like
   a snare drum.  Seems like an odd position to put it in.  Now I'd like to
   find a bass drum sound, and like Dennis, figure out how to make a snare drum
   roll sound.  Also, I'm looking for sounds like a rim shot and clicking
   sticks together.  No luck there yet.  Anyone have any ideas?

   On 05/31/2014 02:03 PM, dershem [1]ders...@cox.net  wrote:

On 5/31/2014 10:46 AM, Bill Baker wrote:
 I'm a casual user of Finale and I haven't upgraded since 2001, but I'm
 trying to figure out how to enter percussion parts so that they'll play
 back correctly.  What I've done so far is to enter a note on a staff and
 test its playback.  If what I get isn't the correct sound, I'll drag it
 to a different position in speedy entry, listening to all the sounds it
 plays while I'm dragging the note.  However, none of the sounds are of a
 snare drum.  Is that sound really so rare that Finale didn't include it
 in its percussion sounds?  The instrument list says I'm using Standard
 Kit on channel 10, program 1.  I've tried to find the answer online and
 in the documentation, but everything I've read tells me to build my own
 percussion library with no specific instructions on how to do it.  Can
 anyone help me with this?

Snare drum is usually found on space 3.

cd

References

   1. mailto:ders...@cox.net
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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

On 05/31/2014 06:06 PM, Peter Taylor pe...@euphonium.plus.com  wrote:
 Bill, if you're using Finale 2001 then you're probably using a MIDI synth 
 rather than Garritan samples, am I right?  Finale just sends MIDI data and 
 it's the synth the generates the sounds.  Finale has lots of irritating 
 habits, but I think it's unfair to blame Finale here.
Yes, that's correct.  And I was criticizing Finale for not making it
obvious, or at least easy, to get something as simple as a snare drum sound.
 First off, are using a Percussion map in staff attributes?  The map moves 
 notes from their true pitch to the lines and spaces that drummers 
 understand.  If you're using a map you might need to check which sounds have 
 been activated. You won't hear the snare sound if it hasn't been set.  If 
 this is confusing, I suggest you change the notation style in Staff 
 Attributes from Percussion to Standard, and then you'll be able to hear 
 every percussion sound on its relative line/space on the staff.
All I did was choose Snare Drum in the score wizard.  Beyond that, I
have no idea.
 Unlike the other channels, where each note has a different pitch, on channel 
 10 each semitone has a different instrument.  As you drag your note up and 
 down on the staff, you'll hear only the sounds which fall on notes in the C 
 scale (i.e. the white keys on a piano) and you're skipping over the sounds 
 assigned to the black keys.  If you sharpen the note (using the + key in 
 speedy) before dragging you'll find there are a lot more sounds you hadn't 
 discovered before, and hopefully you'll find what you need.  Having said 
 that, the snare drum sounds are on notes in the C scale, so there might be 
 something else going on here.
I have noticed that when I drag a note up or down but keep it on the
same line or space that it will give me a different sound.
 The manual has a chart showing which percussion sounds are on which notes on 
 channel 10.  It's called the General MIDI Percussion Map Table, in the 
 appendix section.  The acoustic snare drum is on note number 38, or D2 
 (where middle C is 60 or C4).  The electric snare is on note 40 (E2).

 Hope this helps.

 Peter
I'm just not sure how to switch between the different mappings.

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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

   I assume you're talking about this?
   [1]https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GMStandardDrumMap.gif
   I would love to have that upper drum map, but it looks like I'm stuck on the
   lower one.
   Also, I don't know how to make the different size bass drums, like in a
   marching band.

   On  05/31/2014 05:44 PM, Michael Mathew [2]mmathew_musicp...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

[3]File:GMStandardDrumMap.gif - Wikimedia Commons


   [4]File:GMStandardDrumMap.gif - Wikimedia Commons
I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following lic
enses:
View on commons.wikimedia.org Preview by Yahoo

 This is one of several percussion map layouts on the internet.

Here is one from the general MIDI manufacturers group:

GM1 Sound Set


 GM1 Sound Set
General MIDI's most recognized feature is the defined list of sounds or patche
s.
View on [5]www.midi.org Preview by Yahoo


Michael
[6]mmathew_musicprep at yahoo.com
[7]http://www.musicengravers.com/cgi-bin/engravers.pl
[8]http://oregonmts.com/mathew/

References

   1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GMStandardDrumMap.gif
   2. mailto:mmathew_musicp...@yahoo.com
   3. file://localhost/tmp/GMStandardDrumMap.gif
   4. file://localhost/tmp/GMStandardDrumMap.gif
   5. http://www.midi.org/
   6. https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
   7. http://www.musicengravers.com/cgi-bin/engravers.pl
   8. http://oregonmts.com/mathew/
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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

I think I'm on the right path here, but I'm not sure what to do next.  I
found the Percussion Map Designer in the Staff Tools.  I made my own map
and chose playback note 37 (side stick) to play at staff position 6 and
playback note 38 (snare drum) to play at staff position 7.  I selected
my percussion map and tried to enter notes at positions 6 and 7, but the
old sounds still play there (short whistle and long whistle).  What am I
doing wrong?

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Re: [Finale] Finale Digest, Vol 130, Issue 25

[Bill Baker]

How do I enter MIDI note 38 in speedy entry?  I don't have a synthesizer
keyboard, only a regular qwerty computer keyboard.

On 05/31/2014 11:48 PM, Ryan Beard ry.squa...@gmail.com  wrote:
 Ah, you're not defining which notes you play to get the sound you want, 
 you're defining where the snare drum note heads appears on the staff. To 
 enter a snare drum note in speedy entry, you'll always use midi note 38. 
 Finale will place it on the staff wherever you define in the percussion map 
 designer. 
 This distinction confused me for some time as well. 

 Sent from my iPad


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Re: [Finale] Percussion playback

[Bill Baker]

I am using speedy entry, but the only thing that shows up in the upper
left hand corner of the edit box is V1.  If I use the up and down
arrows, it just moves to a different line or space.

On June 1, 2014, at 12:41 AM, Ryan Beard ry.squa...@gmail.com  wrote:
 How do you enter notes and rests? Do you use simple entry? I'm not well 
 versed in that, so I'm not much help. But in speedy, you can position the 
 cursor using the up and down arrows. In the top left of the speedy frame 
 it'll cycle through all the percussion instrument sounds assigned to that 
 staff position. Once it says Snare Drum, you should be good. 

 Sent from my iPad


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Re: [Finale] IMSLP down?

[Bill Thompson]

They have been having server or connectivity problems intermittently for
the last several days. FWIW I just connected a minute ago...

Bill


On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote:

 Hi gang,

 Anyone know whether this is just a temporary outage? Or is the IMSLP
 Petrucci Music Library RIP?

 http://imslp.org/

 Cheers,

 - DJA
 -
 WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org



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[Finale] Won't play tie marks avross bar lines.

[bill sinclair]

I am using the Simple ENTRY tool, and T for forward tie, or Shift T for 
backward tie.

Maybe whatever tool you use does not create the problem ?

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com

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[Finale] How do I insert 2 beats (part of a measure)?

[bill sinclair]

I don't know how it happened, but 2 beats got left out of the middle of my 
concert score.

So I want to insert them in again. It's half a measure, so I can't use Add 
measure stack.

Is there a quick and easy way to do that? 

The select part of a measure option apparently has been moved somewhere where 
I can't find it.

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com

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[Finale] Playback ignores tie marks across measure lines.

[bill sinclair]

This seems to occur more often when one is EDITING the score and places tie 
marks across bar lines.

It treats the notes as sepaarate entities.

Just wondering why no one wants to fix this.

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com

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[Finale] Key signature menus

[bill sinclair]

I talked to a couple of composers I know:

Thay don't make any distiction between Major and Minor keys, i.e.
G natural minor is the same as Bb major as far as they're concerned.

If it was harmonic or melodic minor, they put accidentals where appropriate.

But for them it's notation on a printed page. They are not as involved in 
software
issues like we are talking about here. They turn that over to a copyist.

However, a copyist dees NOT know which kind it is when he sees the key 
signature. He just sees
two flats. So, giving them an artificial name is nonsensical.

In other words, the composer/arranger does not say by the way this is G minor, 
not Bb major or vica versa.

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com

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[Finale] Key signature menus

[bill sinclair]

What you say is true, BUT
There are three different patterns.
1) Natural minor is 2 flats, on B and E. That's
identical to the Bb major key. (standard)
2( Melodic minor is 1 flat on E.
3) Harmonic minor if one flat (E) and one sharp (F).
Practically all orchestraters or composers would just use the natural minor, 
and put accidentals where appropriate.

In the last 20 years I have not seen a non-standard key signature like we
are talking about here. Modern classical composers are more likely to do that.


 

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com

 

 
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[Finale] Awkward key signature menu

[bill sinclair]

I thought about the enharmonic spelling issue - -

You could set up up a non-standard key signature for melodic minor, 
for
instance for G melodic minor, use F#, and B flat.

That is the only place I can think of where major or minor might be 
treated differently.
But another way to handle it would be another box saying major or 
minor.

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com


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[Finale] awkward key signature menu (correction)

[bill sinclair]

Actually, for G harmonic minor you would use B flat and F sharp.
For melodic minor, you would use just E flat,
and for the natural minor, use B and E flat.

When you say G minor, there is a lot of ambiguity, since there are 3 
possible choices.
That's why I think it's better NOT to give it a name.

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com


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[Finale] Why do my messages keep bouncing?

[bill sinclair]

 Up until recently, my AOL text messages went through OK.
Now I get Ignoring non-mime or it doesn't think they are straight text any 
more.
It doesn't like =20

How can I make them go through?

 

bill sinclair
billsi...@aol.com

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[Finale] Awkward key signature menu

[bill sinclair]

They have a really awkward feature that I wish would be fixed - - -

When you request a key signature, it makes a distinction between a
major key and a minor key with the exact same pattern of sharps and
flats. For example, they call C minor a DIFFERENT key signature than E
flat major.

Why even give it a name? There should be only 15 choices 1-7 sharps,
1-7 flats or NONE. Instead they make you do about 30 choices. you have
the 12 keys, but there are TWO name for 3 of them.

This creates a lot of confusion. Whether you transpose the notes or not
should be a option which is checked or unchecked. Instead they call it
other. There are lots of situations where you want to change the key
signature, but keep the note pitches the same.

This could be put on a greatly simplified menu. For example:
1) no of sharps or flats, and
2) what kind it is: sharp or flat, or non-standard.
3) three check boxes: No tranpose, enharmonic, or diatonic.

By non-standard I mean a melodic minor for example.





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Re: [Finale] How do I deal with harmony that mixes two clefs?

[bill sinclair]

There are too many ledger lines for the parts where it is in the treble clef.
Otherwise I would put everything in the bass clef.

Does that merge music utility work?

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
To: finale finale@shsu.edu
Cc: bill sinclair billsi...@aol.com
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Finale] How do I deal with harmony that mixes two clefs?


On 11/4/2011 2:05 PM, bill sinclair wrote:

 Hello -

 I was given three part harmony. The top voice is all in the TREBLE clef, the
 bottom part in all in the BASS clef.

 But the middle part is partly in treble , partly in bass clef.

 So when I split the voices, I'm going to have two staffs for the middle voice.
 Unless someone can suggest a shortcut to MERGE the two staffs.

 Any ideas, other than having to re-enter everything for the middle voice?

 The middle voice is a tenor sax, which transposes up a ninth, and his key is 
always treble clef.


that's what staff styles are for -- enter the middle line entirely in 
the bass clef, and then use a staff style where the transposition is 
defined as up a major 9th and in the treble clef on those sections where 
it's supposed to be tenor sax.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com

 
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[Finale] How do I deal with harmony that mixes two clefs?

[bill sinclair]

Hello -

I was given three part harmony. The top voice is all in the TREBLE clef, the
bottom part in all in the BASS clef.

But the middle part is partly in treble , partly in bass clef.

So when I split the voices, I'm going to have two staffs for the middle voice.
Unless someone can suggest a shortcut to MERGE the two staffs.

Any ideas, other than having to re-enter everything for the middle voice?

The middle voice is a tenor sax, which transposes up a ninth, and his key is 
always treble clef.

Thanks;  Bill S.
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[Finale] Tied notes of unequal pitches

[bill sinclair]

I have consulted with several professional arrangers and copyists about this.

You don't have tied notes between pitches that aren't HEARD the same,
for example G to B natural. A tie mark in that setting is a SLUR.

You can, however, have a tied note between G sharp and A flat, provided
there is a key signature change. In such a case, the tie mark would have to go 
UNDER the key signature,
connecting the two notes.

I bring this up because when you CHANGE a pitch of a tied note currently,
Finale does NOT change the other notes it is tied to. So if you want to keep 
the note as tied, you
have to adjust all the others on the staff.

Otherwise the tie mark is hanging in space.

The programmers should be more concerned about getting it right, than
what is convenient.
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Re: [Finale] Scanning Software recommendations

[Bill Thompson]

I own an older version of SmartScore, and for the most part I find it to 
be pretty effective. A friend of mine uses Visiv SharpEye, and I've been 
very impressed with how well it scans. So much so that it is on my wish 
list.


The differences between SmartScore and SharpEye, from my limited 
experience with SharpEye, are mostly speed - SharpEye is faster - and 
the ability to deal with less than perfect source material. Put another 
way, if you have a clean copy of a score both programs seem to read with 
about the same accuracy. If the score is smudged, bent, folded, 
spindled, or mutilated in any way then SharpEye tends to provide a more 
accurate scan.


SharpEye is available in a demo version, download it HERE 
http://www.visiv.co.uk/dload.htm.
SmartScore also has a demo, available HERE 
http://www.musitek.com/downloads.html.


I hate to be so wishy-washy, but really, you're probably best served by 
trying both demos. But I will grow a backbone long enough to strongly 
urge you to demo SharpEye...


Bill

Ken Parsons wrote:

I'm thinking about purchasing the SmartScore Pro software for use with Finale, 
but wondered if there's a better program out there, or if SmartScore is the way 
to go.

Any suggestions welcome!

Ken



Ken Parsons

Technology Coordinator

School of Music

Southern Adventist University

Collegedale, TN 37315

(4230 236-2886

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[Finale] OT Finale and Sibelius in Linux?

[Bill Baker]

All I can tell you is that a few years ago I attempted to install Finale
2001 on a Linux machine using Wine and was unsuccessful.  It installed
fine, but I couldn't get the fonts to work.  Just now I attempted to
install 2001 again on a machine running Ubuntu 8.10 and it runs
perfectly, the fonts showing and all (MIDI playback doesn't seem to
work, but that's not unexpected).

One thing I had to do to install it that I had to figure out on my own
was instead of referencing the install program by its absolute path
(wine /media/Finale2001/SETUP.EXE), I had to use wine D\:\\SETUP.EXE.

With newer versions of Finale, you may experience issues trying to
install and run it with wine, but older versions may work better.

On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 05:52:28 -0500, yateslawre...@aol.com wrote:
 Hi and Happy New Year to all.
  
 Someone on another list is asking if Finale and/or Sibelius work in
 Linux.
  
 Anybody know please?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Lawrence
  
 lawrenceyates.co.uk

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Re: [Finale] Help file with Firefox 3

[Bill Thompson]

Hi Dennis,

Yup, only it's more insidious than that, the help file won't work at all 
in IE7, and functionality is severely limited in FF3.03. I can't be 
certain that I used the help file before my most recent Firefox update, 
but I'd be really surprised if I did not, so I think it worked briefly 
in earlier FF3 releases.


Last night I just needed to get some work done, so I reverted to FF2 and 
everything was fine, except the IE7 problem. Now I almost never use IE, 
so I have no idea if that ever worked, and I'll leave regressing to 
someone else who is comfortable with the task.


Tonight I will try to find the previous FF3 installers and see what I find.

If there is another fix I'd be very interested in hearing about it!

Bill

dc wrote:
Since I upgraded to Firefox 3, the search function no longer works in 
the Help file (2008) ... Anyone else come across this problem?


Thanks,

Dennis


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Owner
Audio Enterprise
--
Pure mathematics is, in its way, 
the poetry of logical ideas.

~Albert Einstein
--
I am not discouraged because every 
wrong attempt discarded is another 
step forward.

-Thomas A. Edison


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[Finale] Changing staves mid-measure in Finale 2008a (Win)

[Bill Thompson]

Hi all,

I am what would probably be characterized as a casual user, in that I 
discover how to do cool things as I need them. I am currently trying to 
create parts for pit band, and the piano part will be ever so much more 
readable if I can flip between treble and bass clef at certain points. 
Most of these switches occur at measure boundaries, but there are three 
or four places where I believe it will be more readable if I change 
mid-measure.


According to the documentation (don't tell anyone I read it) I am 
supposed to be able to access a handle after I insert a clef, but when I 
follow the directions the entire measure is highlighted, not the clef 
marker.


I suppose this may still be me learning to do without the mass-mover 
toolG, although I have (finally) decided it was a good move... I can 
do most of the things I need to do now as quickly, or even more quickly 
than before. It was quite a hurdle to get used to it though!


So, am I doing something wrong or have I stumbled across a bug?

Thanks,

Bill

--
Bill Thompson
Owner
Audio Enterprise
--
Pure mathematics is, in its way, 
the poetry of logical ideas.

~Albert Einstein
--
I am not discouraged because every 
wrong attempt discarded is another 
step forward.

-Thomas A. Edison


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Re: [Finale] Hiding Staff Lines for Rhythmic Notation

[Bill]

I suppose I should respond to this one:

The hidden/reduced shorthand rhythm staff above the main staff is already 
pre-defined for alternate notation rhythm entry.


Using Speedy, just click on the desired measure, enter any pitch with the 
desired rhythm (staff lines and notes will show up in the speedy window). 
Then, close the window.  Staff lines will be hidden, and the pitches will 
display as rhythmic notation.


Additional Staff Styles, such as repeats or slashes, can be applied as 
usual.


Bill Duncan




Hello Group,

I'm using FinMac 2007 and Bill Duncan's BD 1-Staff-Chords8x11 template.

I want to indicate a particular chord rhythm in a bar using the reduced
staff above the main staff. If I apply a staff style for that measure
that shows staff lines to allow me to enter the notes, how do I hide the
staff lines for that bar without also hiding the notes?

Thanks.

**Leigh





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Re: [Finale] If I only had an option

[Bill]

FWIW, I created a Hairpins font specifically for this purpose.  The length 
of the actual hairpin is fixed (but available in many lengths), but can be 
note-attached as a text expression, useful for fairly short hairpin 
situations.  With the advent of multiple fonts being available since Fin2k4, 
this would make expressions like pmf very easy to create as a single 
expression, and flexible as any other text expression as far as assignment 
is concerned.


I admit that this isn't the best solution, and I totally agree that MM 
should modify the Smart Shapes tool to allow this natively.  The Hairpins 
font was the best solution for me, particularly for short combinations, 
until that happens.


At the risk of sounding overly commercial, here is the URL to check it out:

http://www.gwmp.com/MusicFontsFrameset.htm

I would be happy to forward a complete EPS key map if anyone is interested.

Bill Duncan

- Original Message - 
From: Scot Hanna-Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] If I only had an option



Note attached hairpins period would be a great thing. I still can't
figure out why this hasn't already been implemented (FinMac2006d).

-Scot

On 8/17/06, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Aug 17, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Dejan Badnjar wrote:

 Can you imagine if Finale 2007 had an option to draw hairpins in
 the Smart Shape Tool/Tab Slide/Smart Line Designer so that you can
 be able to make all instances of dynamic changes (eg. Pmp, mff,
 fpp, etc) and display them in a separate menu for selection (with
 metatools), applying them as Pedal markings attached to notes. Talk
 about consistency and accuracy. In my long experience with
 engraving scores this is where you spend most time, and more when
 you do the same thing for extracted parts. I have asked Tobias
 years ago about this. This should really be easy to implement.
 Music Press has similar feature but with separate dynamics and
 hairpins.


Yes, great idea! And probably very easy to implement, as you said.

I experimented with creating a Shape expression with P on one end and
F on the other and two hand-drawn lines between. It worked, more or
less, and I could manually stretch it to fit, but I want better
control over the distances between items than this method gives me.
The point of the V tends to change as it is dragged, either
separating or crossing, and the lines increase distance from the P
and F as it grows. A Smart Shape most likely would not have this
problem. Plus it is a mighty pain to create in the Shape Designer, a
primitive tool if I ever saw one.

Christopher


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Choral Music Teacher
Tecumseh Middle School
Tecumseh High School
---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] 2007 Announced!!

[Bill Thompson]

And this has to be a bit embarrassing... their web site is not
working... at least the last five times I triedG...

Bet a bunch of folks are hitting it...

Bill


Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
 Well, Gang-

 It's now out; the most widely-advance-discussed upgrade seems to be
 (drum roll) linked parts.   I guess they DO listen to our discussions
 when Sibelius' advancements are praised
  
 http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/features/new/linkedparts.aspx

 Best,

 */Les
 /*Les Marsden
 Founding Music Director and Conductor,
 The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
 Music and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!
  
 http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
 http://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm
 http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
 http://www.geocities.com/%7Ejbenz/lesbio.html  

  
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Providing Technical Services to Audio Professionals
and Creative Music and Audio Services to everyone
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Re: [Finale] Repeat box bugs (was External Numeric keypad - FinWin)

[Bill]

The lines that form repeat boxes are not smart, that is, they keep the 
same length regardless of how the music gets spaced, and they do not break 
intelligently at system breaks.


I had a very long first ending over three systems, and I had to manually 
adjust the box ends for the

1) first box start
2) first box end
3) add in a Smart Shape line to cover the middle system so that it showed 
as if it was a repeat box


and I had to do this on ALL my extracted parts, then again in the score (I 
couldn't set it in the score, because sometimes the line is so long I 
can't even see the handles in Page View, and have to resize them in Scroll 
View) so there is an hour or so of my life I will never get back again... 
grr!


Furthermore, when a first ending ends with a multimeasure rest, I often 
lose the repeat bracket over the dotted double line in the extracted 
parts. I have to delete the repeat and enter it again, once more for every 
extracted part that has a multimeasure rest just before the repeat.


Christopher



That's why I always use Custom Line Styles for my Repeate boxes/lines.  They 
are smart and always size properly.  Also, you can add continuation text for 
multi-system 1st endings.  I also like to put a right-arrow head at the end 
of the 2nd ending line...not traditional, but REALLY clear.


Bill Duncan 


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Re: [Finale] OT: Win2K install help needed

[Bill Baker]

On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 11:44 -0400, A-NO-NE Music [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Sorry for OT post.  There are many Win experts on list, and hoping
 someone knows the answer.
 
 My wife wants to use my old Thinkpad 240 sitting in my closet.  It has
 IBM USB external CDROM drive, which won't boot, naturally.  I have
 searched bootdisk.com and IBM site but there is no DOS driver for this
 drive.
 
 The only way I could think of how to clean install Win2K is:
 1) Create 4 boot diskettes off the installer CD
 2) Boot from the diskettes and copy all the cab files to C:
 I'd think C: needs to be FAT since NT installer is DOS
 3) Convert FAT to NTFS then expand the partition size afterward
 
 This is a tedious procedure.  I was wondering if anyone know any
 better way.
 Thanks in advance.
 
 P.S. Boy Mac is easier... 

I don't see any reason why you would have to make C: be a FAT partition,
since you would be booting from Win2K installer disks.  I believe the
text-based part of the install will support NTFS.

Now if you're going to boot from a Win98 disk and start the install
program, then yes, you would need to create partitions first, and they
would have to be FAT32.  However, depending on the size of the disk, you
wouldn't necessarily have to resize the partition, since FAT32 supports
up to a 32GB partition and you mentioned that your laptop was old.

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Re: Re(4): [Finale] Chord Symbol Polychord Spacing Question

[Bill]

I am staying out of this argument.  I try to document everything I sell or 
send.  If the page #s are different, I suggest you review the content as it 
is context and content relevent.


Bill

- Original Message - 
From: themark [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Re(4): [Finale] Chord Symbol Polychord Spacing Question




- Original Message - 
From: Leigh Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Finale List finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: Re(4): [Finale] Chord Symbol Polychord Spacing Question



It's on p. 53 of the Finale Productivity manual that Bill Duncan sends
with his great package.

**Leigh

Ah, so one who buys only one or two of his separated packages (one of 
these

I bought is the Chord one) has not rights to have that manual?

Hmmm...

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Re: [Finale] RE: [Olist] Sibelius/Finale question [lengthy Baileyreply] (cross-posted from OrchestraList)

[Bill]

Eric,

Engraver Time ships with Finale.  My version of it, Big Time, is exactly 
the same but with Cut and Common time added (and the + glyph added).  My 
version of big time signatures for scores is a bit smaller than Karen's (to 
save horizontal space, but quite readable for any conductor as old as I am). 
I can divulge my settings if anyone wants.


Bill Duncan


Of course, this assumes he has Bill's Finale Productivity fonts...

Karen wrote:

Hi Owain,

Here are the settings I use for this.  You can make adjustments to your 
liking of course but maybe this will give you a starting point.


Document SettingsFonts I set the Notation: Time font to EngraverTime 
72 plain


Document SettingsTime Signatures   Under the Vertical Adjustments 
section - Top Symbol .098  Bottom Symbol -.98


-K


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[Finale] Finale versions for Mac?

[Bill Spencer]

Hi there: I am currently using FinMac2kc and am wondering if someone could let 
me know at what point newer versions would run under Classic. (I had my eye on 
a 2003 version on eBay but got outbid.) In order to use what I have I must boot 
in OS9; it crashes in Classic. Sure I could buy the current version and not 
worry about Classic at all, but since I am currently unemployed I would much 
rather not spend that kind of money.

Thanks in advance!



Bill Spencer in NH
BW G3/400mhz/rev.2/896mb/12G + 14G dual HDs/LaCie 52x burner/Panther (10.3.9)



Bill Spencer 

Be civil to all; sociable to many; familiar with few; friend to one; enemy to 
none. --Benjamin Franklin
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[Finale] Shapes question

[Bill]

Hi All,

I am trying to delete extraneous shapes (sometimes in the 100's) from the 
Shapes Library and can't figure out how to delete those that are apparently 
in use  I get the message, This Library Element cannot be deleted. It is 
in use in the piece.  How can it be in use when there are no entries in the 
template?  Any ideas?


Bill Duncan 


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Re: [Finale] Shapes question

[Bill]

Bill wrote:

I am trying to delete extraneous shapes (sometimes in the 100's) from the 
Shapes Library and can't figure out how to delete those that are 
apparently in use  I get the message, This Library Element cannot be 
deleted. It is in use in the piece.  How can it be in use when there are 
no entries in the template?


The shape is in use if the shape id is specified in an execute shape block 
in an expression, even if the expression is set for no playback.  Also, 
those shapes which are shape expressions are flagged as in use.
Go through the expressions table, set all (or at least all those you don't 
want) the execute shape entries to zero.  Shapes might also be used as 
an articulation.

ns


I should have mentioned that this was a FinMac03 issue (since I still have 
to use that platform quite a bit).  I cannot find an expression table 
anywhere in it.  Also, there is a difference between the alert I quoted 
above, and the dialog that allows you to either replace the entry or delete 
it from the library and score.


-Bill 


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Re: [Finale] Staccatissimo font

[Bill]

Hi Pierre,

I have something close...like a small wedge in my Articulations font. 
http://www.gwmp.com/MusicFontsFrameset.htm


If that's not exactly what you're looking for, I could be persuaded to make 
one if I could see an example of exactly what you're talking about.


Bill Duncan

- Original Message - 
From: Pierre Bailleul [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 6:02 AM
Subject: [Finale] Staccatissimo font



Dear list,
I'm searching another staccatissimo sign than finale fonts. I'd like an 
elongated point (circle on the top).

Thanks for your responses.
Pierre.
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Re: [Finale] Staccatissimo font

[Bill]

You know, there might be an apostrophe that would work as well in some stock 
text fonts, but I haven't looked yet.


Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Staccatissimo font



On 14.04.2006 Pierre Bailleul wrote:

Dear list,
I'm searching another staccatissimo sign than finale fonts. I'd like an 
elongated point (circle on the top).

Thanks for your responses.
Pierre.


There is a wedge in the newer versions of Maestro. Is that not what you 
are looking for?


A long time ago designed a wedge which was part of the dynamic 
articulation library, which may or may not still be available at Jari's 
tips site. Today I prefer the Maestro version, which is a little shorter.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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[Finale] Font Annotation

[bill]

Hi Chuck,

Here's the revised annotation file will all characters tweaked.

I have some more testing to do, but this might save you some time.

Bill

Articulations.fan
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Finale] Font Annotation

[Bill]

OOOPS!sorry



- Original Message - 
From: bill [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: [Finale] Font Annotation



Hi Chuck,

Here's the revised annotation file will all characters tweaked.

I have some more testing to do, but this might save you some time.

Bill







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Re: [Finale] Two questions WinFin 2004b

[Bill]

Now I remember why I never used it:  The Meastro Default version is based on
a 2-segment vertical tilde and always draws about a 5th too tall.  I tried
it with a 1-segment vertical tilde and it's still about a 3rd too tall.
That could be manageable if the top adjustment handle would adjust the
height instead of the entire vertical placement, since the roll is anchored
to the bottom note.  But in it's current state, there is too much screwing
around involved to even use it.  I'll stick to my Rolls font for now until
MM could make it possible do rolls properly, add arrows, as well as use the
same procedure for brackets.

Bill


If you enter it as a metatool (hold R, click bottom note of chord) then it 
will auto-size to the height of the chord. If you don't attach it to the 
bottom note, it won't auto size, and you will have to drag the handles to 
resize it.


Christopher


On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:44 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

Articulation #31 in the Finale Default File (Fin2006). [It's in earlier 
default files as well, of course, but may be in a slightly different 
slot.]


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://secretsociety.typepad.com
Brooklyn, NY



On 24 Mar 2006, at 8:43 PM, D. Keneth Fowler wrote:

I vaguely remember long ago using a character to mark chords that are to 
be rolled. As I remember I could enter the character and drag it to any 
desired length. The ones I can find are all fixed length.

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Re: [Finale] Two questions WinFin 2004b

[Bill-PC]

- Original Message - 
From: D. Keneth Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 5:43 PM
Subject: [Finale] Two questions WinFin 2004b



These are probably in Finale 101, but  . . . .

How do I place brackets on eighth note triplets? The quarters seem to get 
brackets automatically, but no luck with eighths. Did I miss it in the 
Manual?


If you *must* use brackets on beamed notes, use the Tuplet tool, click on
the first note of the tuplet, double-click on the tuplet handle and the
Tuplet Definition dialog will come up.  The options for including a beam are
there.

Someone here will probably yell at me, but you really shouldn't use tuplet
brackets with beamed notes because the beam itself serves as the bracket.



I vaguely remember long ago using a character to mark chords that are to 
be rolled. As I remember I could enter the character and drag it to any 
desired length. The ones I can find are all fixed length.


If there is, I haven't been able to find it.  That's why I created a Rolls
font with many lengths (even 2-staff), with and without arrows, that can be
used as articulations and will automatically space to avoid collisions with
a previous barline or other notes.  This would be something that Finale
should be able to do natively in future versions.

Bill Duncan



Your help is greatly appreciated.

Ken Fowler


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Re: [Finale] Expression marks

[bill]

Title: Re: [Finale] Expression marks



Jonathan,

I agree. To expand on that, I follow these rules:

1) Things that apply to *all* parts, i.e. stuff that a conducter needs to know (letter A, tempo markings, accl., rit., rall., etc), should *always* be places above the staff. They are structural markers and should always be extremely clear and predictable. No exceptions here...*EVER*

2) _expression_ directions (dolce, espress., legato, etc.) should be place where it is meaningful, particularly when there is more than one voice involved in a single part. There are so many variables involved, that no one rule works 100% of the time. Some of you say that putting them below the staff, but when there are many dynamics and hairpins involved, that makes no sense at all because there is no room for the _expression_ without putting it so far below everything else, that it is not readily seen. I put them closest to where they apply.

3) Hairpins, and cresc . . . poco . . . a . . . poco, etc. should be placed under the staff...HOWEVER...many rules go out the window with polyphonic writing, which demands that these are placed closest to the line that it applies. 

4) With articulations, the only things that should be on the note side and within the staff are staccatos and tenutos; everything else should be above the staff. For those of you who have seen my articulations font examples shows many other articulations under the staff. This is to demonstrate that flipped characters do exist in the font and not my preferred practice, but to be available for polyphonic writing.

My mantra is be impossible to be misunderstood. If you are paying $6000 per hour in a recording session, it makes a huge difference if there are no questions about what you mean. Several people here have said before that rhythm is paramount. I would include structural clarity to that. That is, to me, the only hard and fast rule to notation. The rest depends on the situation: The right way is NOT to generate questions about what you mean.

Bill Duncan



From: Jonathan Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:14:42 +0100
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] _expression_ marks


Into which category do you place rit, accel, rallentando, ect?

These are all changes of tempi which should be placed above the staff and be clear to read as they will apply to all instruments.

Jonathan


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Re: [Finale] change font note head

[bill]

Hi Dragos,

Not yet, as far as I know.  That is a much-needed fix.  Can I ask what
notehead you are trying to get to work?  It is my guess that it might be a
rhythmic notation note head that always offsets vertically incorrectly.  I
finally gave up with fighting that and made my own fonts.  You can, however,
tweak positioning issues with the Font Annotation settings, once you get
beyond the innane design of that tool.

Bill Duncan



 From: Dragos Oltean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:27:03 +0200
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: [Finale] change font note head
 
 I use Maestro font for engraving music.
 I want change a note head but with other font, not Maestro. It's possible?
 
 Thanks,
 Dragos
 F2006c, WinXP
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Re: [Finale] Chorus question

[bill]

I have no idea why this is even a question.  Make a separate staff for the
soloist, and then indicate go get coffee or something when she doesn't
sing.  I am opposed to anything that is too accedemic for
musically-challanged chorus members to digest.  I am not that financially
well-endowed to pay for the time it takes for 25 people to ask what does
that mean?

Acedemia is wonderful in it's own merit.  But, I have been a producer for
over 25 years and pay for miscommunications that acedemia creates.  I
suggest you all stop it, and try to be impossible to misunderstand,
irregardless of tradition.  That's the whole point of notation, isn't it?

What's wrong with, tenor solo??  Seems clear to me.  And, when thing get
complicated, then split the parts out.  Do I dectect some laziness here?

sorry to ramble...it is my opinion.

Bill



 From: Bruce K H Kau [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:31:41 -1000
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Chorus question
 
 In choral music I've seen, it's been more or less a non-issue, since
 each part has a separate staff (or at least a separate line on a staff -
 stems up / stems down). The soloist is also broken out as a separate
 staff. If the soloist is from a particular part (for example, a single
 tenor from the tenor section, as opposed to a feature soloist), the way
 I've seen it is that it is marked Solo and All Tenors on the same staff.
 
 Darcy James Argue wrote:
 
 On 27 Feb 2006, at 9:08 PM, John Bell wrote:
 
 In a Call and Response situation, solo and gli altri seems to me to
 be very clear.
 
 So would I, but apparently my client does not.
 
 There are also passages where the soloist sings a moving line with
 simple choral backgrounds, both on the same staff. (Yes, it's quite
 clear without splitting the solo part out onto its own staff.)
 
 How about just Solo and Chorus?
 
 - Darcy
 -
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://secretsociety.typepad.com
 Brooklyn, NY
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Finale] Stem length and tremelo settings

[bill]

Hi Don,

I made a font called Articulations which addresses that without any
tweaking with stem length, as well as many other annoying issues.  The trem
angle is reduced from the stock MM choices, and a tad wider one was made for
whole notes.  

Look at the examples at:  http://www.gwmp.com/MusicFontsFrameset.htm

Almost everything is entered and positioned without any tweaking at all, as
if it was mass-applied.

Bill Duncan


 
 Does anyone have, and would you be willing to share settings for 1) stem
 length and 2) positioning of the 3 slash tremelo articulation that work
 harmoniously together?
 
 By harmonious I mean stems long enough so there's space between the
 tremelo and the notehead, and between the tremelo and the beam or the end of
 the stem, but not long enough to adversely affect the look of the music
 otherwise.  Is this a pipedream, and am I bound to need to adjust manually
 one way or the other?  If so, has anyone filtered this down to the least
 amount of tweaking?
 
 I know this is subjective to a great extent, but I'd appreciate knowing if
 any of you feel able to handle this successfully and how so.
 
 Thanks much.
 
 Don Hart 
 
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Re: [Finale] disappearing posts

[bill]

I can relate to dissapearing posts.  Through the thread of 8th = quarter, I
offered a font solution which can handle any and all you are arguing about.
As far as I am concerned, previous becomes current.  That's it.  Those
of you who hold on to historic tradition should realize that those who came
before us may have been wrestling with the issue without a firm resolution.
I think there is NO question as to what is right for tempo transitions now.
The rest of you who disagree with that, shut up...you are patently wrong.

Either way, try making arrows on the fly, and multiple fonts who's stems are
too tall, or have to use multiple fonts to make a single tempo expression.
I don't know about you all, but I got sick of that.  I've done the work for
you...sorry if I want to be paid for my time.  I am considering deleting
this list, as it is becomming too intellectual at the expense of what is
real, fighting, and not very productive any more, although David Fenton is
behaving himself as of late.  My favorite person in the world is Chuck...at
least he listens, and is way more nice and open-minded than most of you are.

I can seem juvenile some times, but it is to add levity to things on here.
Christopher, I genuinely envy you; I wish I could have played the bass
trombone.  Chuck, I envy you for your fortunate sequence of events that made
you what you are now.  Darcy, I wish I could meet you sometime...I used to
be a Mac guru, but sorta lost the incentive to keep up with it like you
have, after being forced to spend over $10,000 to upgrade all of my software
to OS X when 9.2.2 was working just fine.

As far as lost postings, this one will be the deciding factor.  I really
don't think I am all that cold, and I sometimes advertise my stuff because I
think it might help everyone on here.  Personally, I hate ads, so this is
not all that easy for me.

Thanks for listening.

Bill

 
 
 On Feb 12, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
 
 Every so often one of my postings disappears between my keyboard and
 the list. For example, earlier today I sent a reply to the query about
 orchestral forces in various works   that never seems to have reached
 its destination.
 
 Among other things I asked (partly just to be provocative) whether by
 Schubert's 9th was meant the Great C Major or the Unfinished, since
 the two have recently changed places--and I attended a concert last
 week in which the C Major was performed as Symphony No. 8.
 
 Just asking...
 
 Oh: and why  are my  postings, some of them, disappearing?
 
 
 I got that post.
 
 I guess the question would be: why are YOU not getting some of your
 posts? They would seem to be disappearing not, as you say, between your
 keyboard and the list, but between the list and your inbox.
 
 Christopher
 
 
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Re: [Finale] Swing expressiom

[bill]

Title: Re: [Finale] Swing expressiom



I sell a font called TempoTime which handles that and just about any tempo transition you can think of without having to deal with Shapes. I also use this as my Time Signature font as well. http://www.gwmp.com/MusicFontsFrameset.htm

Bill


Hi All,
 
I need to make a swing _expression_ (2 8ths = quarter / 8th triplet) where the 2 8th notes are beamed together and the quarter / eighth notes have a triplet bracket above them. I've seen this many times in scores. How do I make it Finale 2006 (windows)? I made an _expression_ shape but when I try to resize it, it gets totally messed up. I've tried to make it in an Ossia measure. This is cumbersome, I think. There must be an easier way. Thanks to anyone who can help!!
 
Lee Dengler
Minister of Music and Arts - College Mennonite Church
Assistant Professor of Music - Goshen College
Director - Goshen Community Chorale
Composer, Editor, Engraver
574-535-7262

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Re: [Finale] Swing expressiom

[bill]

This is why I made it possible with fonts.  I was never able to get Shapes
to maintain their integrity when resizing, even if the individual shape
elements are grouped, so I abandoned that tool in Fin02, except for single,
rudimentary shapes.  Maybe they're better now, but having them available as
a font makes for much more flexibility.

Bill


 
 David,
 
 This is helpful, but how does one resize this Shape Expression.  I need
 something smaller.  If I try to stretch this shape it becomes very
 distorted.
 
 Lee Dengler
 
 - Original Message -
 From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:58 PM
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Swing expressiom
 
 
 LEE DENGLER wrote:
 Hi All,
 I need to make a swing expression (2 8ths = quarter / 8th triplet) where
 the 2 8th notes are beamed together and the quarter / eighth notes have a
 triplet bracket above them.  I've seen this many times in scores.  How do
 I make it Finale 2006 (windows)?  I made an expression shape but when I
 try to resize it, it gets totally messed up.  I've tried to make it in an
 Ossia measure.  This is cumbersome, I think.  There must be an easier
 way.  Thanks to anyone who can help!!
 
 
 It's already in the program as a shape expression -- use the Expression
 tool, and then click the radio button labeled SHAPE, and you'll find it
 ready to use.
 
 -- 
 David H. Bailey
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] [Fwd: Musical Humor] repost: Trombone problems

[bill]

I think bass trombonists are cool.

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Re: [Finale] [Fwd: Musical Humor] repost: Trombone problems

[bill]

Christopher, I hope you are not offfended by that.  Being an ex-lead
trombone player, I always envied the bass.  So much cool plumbing!  I could
never afford it, but I always loved the sound.

Sorry to be sophomoric, but bass trombones rule...and violists

Bill

 
 bill wrote:
 
 I think bass trombonists are cool.
 
 Don't worry - you can get help.
 :)
 cd

 

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Re: [Finale] Font face/size for Triplets MM rests?

[bill]

Composers can be total idiots.  Don't rely on their example as they have
other issues on their mind besides notation.

Bill



 From: Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:05:00 -0500
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Font face/size for Triplets  MM rests?
 
 
 On Jan 22, 2006, at 4:26 PM, Éric Dussault wrote:
 
 I'm not sure I remember ever seeing a Sans Serif font for tuplet in
 pre-computerized music publications, but I may be wrong.
 
 You often see it in contemporary music. See, e.g., Xenakis: Eonta
 (Boosey and Hawkes No. 799)
 
 Andrew Stiller
 Kallisti Music Press
 http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
 
 
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[Finale] FinMac2006c bug

[bill]

Hi all,

Has anyone discovered that underlining something in a text block will make a
big rectangular blob where the underlined text is.  I am still using 10.3.9.
I've tried this with several fonts and it is the same thing.

Bill

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Re: [Finale] Paper Sizes and Finale.

[bill]

 
 On Jan 20, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
 
 Since I don't have much experience with larger formats of paper and
 use of Finale,
 I was wondering if anyone could tell me about Finale's performance?
 
 I'm not sure what the dimensions are for the Barenreiter Urtext
 editions (e.g. Complete Mozart Edition,
 Telemann Edition, Monterverdi Complete Edition), but they're very
 roomy (and very expensive). I'm noticing
 whenever you have a project with a lot of instruments in the system or
 you have some sophisitcated note patterns, printing on
 8.5 X 11 paper makes for small layout and sometimes it's not easy to
 read. So I'd like to try my hand
 at the Barenreiter size. What those dimensions? Does Finale perform
 ok at larger dimensions?
  
 I have notice that whenever I used a zoom tool on a PDF, you see
 artificats near where beams
 cross the note stems, and wondered if this is more apparent when you
 print at a much larger format/resolution.
  
 Thank you very much...
 I use a Windows version of Finale too...
  
 Kim Patrick Clow
 
 
 Finale works GREAT on large paper sizes, the question is: how does your
 printer do?
 
 I don't know the Barenreiter size, but I print sometimes on 9-1/2 X 12
 and also on 11 X 17 and legal (8-1/2 X 14) and it all works great.
 There is a bit of fussing around with paper size in several different
 dialogue boxes (Mac version), but I have the list of settings on a
 Post-It so I don't mess up when I switch over.
 
 The extra inch given at 9-1/2 X 12 increases legibility to an
 astounding degree, I find. It's only the cost and the inconvenience
 that keeps me from doing all my parts that size. (Some clients want the
 simple typewriter-sized paper so they can auto-feed it for
 photocopying, and so it will fit in their libraries of that sized
 paper.)
 
 As for the PDF, AFAIK it is supposed to print at the resolution of your
 printer. This might be a Windows thing, as I haven't noticed any of the
 artifacts you mention on my Mac-generated PDFs. You say it prints this
 way, and it ISN'T just a screen/display issue?
 
 Christopher

I agree with Christopher.  Finale works great at large sizes.  Personally, I
use 9.5 X 12.5 for parts, and 19 X 12 for large scores, and the print
quality is as good as your printer's maximum resolution no matter what the
paper size.  

Might I add, that in a remote recording situation where things are Faxed
about, and most on-site copy machines only support 8.5 X 11 and/or 11 X 17,
it makes sense keep things in that format in you know in advance.

As far as PDF artifacts, some 3rd party PDF emulators are pretty bad.  The
PDF option in OS X is quite an improvement from what I had available in OS
9, and quite satisfying to me.  (I'm too cheap to get the full version of
Acrobat!).  It also makes a difference to have the settings correct...as in
embedding fonts enabled.  I don't really have any experience with the
Windows PDF generation issue, however...sorry.

Bill


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Re: [Finale] Font problem

[bill]

David,

Apple has been messing around with TrueType fonts in OS X to accommodate
native Windows versions, and STILL don't have it right.  The glyph you are
talking about in Engraver is Shift-Opt-6 and will not display or print
properly with the TrueType version.  Other broken combinations include
Shift-Opt-2 and 5, and one more I can't think of at the moment.

I am not up to speed on font technicalities, even though I have created a
few;  I am more on the artistic side rather than the technical.  If you have
access to the PostScript versions, use those...you will have all characters
available.  I am continuing to try to solve this problem, and I welcome any
input from anyone who knows.

Bill Duncan

 
 Hello,
 I use Finale 2005, and just upgraded to Mac OS 10.4.4 from 10.3.9.  I
 deleted that apple.com.ATS folder, as instructed.  Most of my fonts show up
 fine, but I noticed, in the first file I opened, that an Engraver font
 accent-with-staccato shows up as a box in its flipped form.  The regular one
 is fine.
 
 I double clicked it.  In the dialog box, the flipped form shows up as that
 box.  When I go to change it, the correct flipped accent-staccato has
 already been selected.  But it shows up as the box again when I hit OK, and
 remains as the box when I leave the articulations dialog box.
 
 Has anyone encountered and solved this problem?
 
 Thank you very much in advance,
 
 David Froom
 
 
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[Finale] Articulations font ready...

[bill]

Hi All,

I finally got my new Articulations font pages up at my website and ready for
purchase.

http://www.gwmp.com/MusicFontsFrameset.htm

The Examples page is also up there now for those of you who haven't seen it
yet and are interested.

My thanks to all who helped me make this font possible.

Bill Duncan

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Re: [Finale] Smart Slurs - Engraver Slurs

[bill]

 
 Contra Don and Andrew, I find Engraver Slurs much better-looking by
 default and much easier to tweak. It's true that unedited Engraver
 Slurs can be somewhat buggy (occasionally getting very tall for no
 reason), but this can be avoided by nudging them all by one pixel and
 then nudging them back.
 
 [Is this bug still a problem in Fin2006? I forget whether it was
 addressed or not.]
 
 However, it would be nice if people who use Engraver Slurs could post
 their settings here. I'll do mine eventually (not now -- too busy) if
 anyone cares, but I'm more curious to see everyone else's.
 
 - Darcy

I completely agree with Darcy.  I use them all the time.  Remember that the
Font Annotation files were created specifically to enable Engraver Slurs to
work properly, and if the .fan files are not installed, the slurs don't know
what to do and will behave erratically.

Also remember that font structures were originally designed to accommodate
letter fonts which don't change in size vertically.  With music fonts, the
vertical size of the individual glyphs is all over the place, but when used
in an application, the application reads the horizontal metrics just fine,
but only uses the ascent and descent of THE ENTIRE FONT to position the
characters vertically.

The Font Annotation file allows you to override the vertical defaults and
customize the vertical boundries of each individual character so the
vertical spacing works the same as the horizontal.  If you ever get an
Engraver Slur that gets really high, say going into a staccato, it means
that Engraver Slurs think the top of the staccato is the ascent value of the
staccato's parent font (instead of the top of the staccato) if no .fan file
exists.  Font Annotation is DEFINITELY worth getting to know, as once you
know that you're doing, you can do some pretty sneaky things with it.

I hope this helps.  I will get some of my settings up here in a bit.  I am
finalizing my Articulations font now, so I'm a bit busy at the moment.

Cheers!

Bill
 

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Re: [Finale] Re: RTFM, no. It shouldn't be necessary.

[bill]

 
 God, I can just imagine it.  A treble clef-shaped annoying looking thing
 that would say things like:
 
 It looks like you're about to type an anacrusis.  Would you like some help
 with that?
 
 Cleffy has noticed some parallel 5ths or octaves in your score.  Would you
 like him to correct these to a better voicing?
 
 This passage is very high for the bassoon.  Would you like to re-score it
 for alto saxophone?

hehehehe

I haven't laughed so hard in months!   Thanks, Colin

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[bill]

I use Quark XPress (which is a bit pricy) and eps graphics are wonderful.  I
often save entire Finale pages as eps docs and they print like lightening.
I often use an expamples page and use bits and pieces of it as needed with
only one eps page as the source...all beautiful and fast.

Quark is incredibly useful for many different things, and rock-solid.  I
think it's about $700 new, but I wouldn't use anything else.  Just my
opinion...

Bill



 From: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:01:07 -0800
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word
 
 Hello all,
 
 I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
 graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
 pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
 they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
 or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
 lines, etc.).
 
 Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
 things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
 things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
 and mail them, and that seems so last century!
 
 TIA,
 
 Chuck
 
 
 Chuck Israels
 230 North Garden Terrace
 Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
 phone (360) 671-3402
 fax (360) 676-6055
 www.chuckisraels.com
 
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Re: [Finale] Smart Line Designer problem

[bill]

Title: Re: [Finale] Smart Line Designer problem



Thanks for the plug, Chuck. As usual, I owe you a lot. 

Johannes, there is no way that Finale provides to do what you are trying to do easily. The best workaround that I have found is to create the Smart Line with the text beginning and ending, and then apply a text _expression_ (with the same font/size/style) with an opaque enclosure with the enclosure line thickness set to 0 to white out the dashed Smart Line line. Apply that text _expression_ to something in the middle and you're good to go. This will also work in situations like cresc - - - a - - - poco - - a - - - poco - - -, as the Smart Line origin and ending remain anchored, and the interior text (being opaque) will always interrupt (block out) the line no matter where it is.

Bill



From: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 08:38:53 -0800
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Smart Line Designer problem


Hi Johannes,

Bill Duncan has smart lines in his Finale Productivity package that can be modified to do things like this (with three elements), and they work beautifully.  There is nothing exactly like what you describe, but I've been able to figure out how to edit the existing ones to achieve things just like this.  Whether it's worth the cost is another story, but there are other things in the package that might also be useful, and I think it's worth a look.

www.gwmp.com


Merry Christmas,

Chuck

5, at 5:22 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

I am trying to get

morendo

Unfortunately I cannot get the dashed line to stop for the center text, instead it always seems to go right through it. Is this a limitation, or am I just missing something?

Happy Christmas!

Johannes
-- 
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Chuck Israels
 
230 North Garden Terrace
 
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
 
phone (360) 671-3402
 
fax (360) 676-6055
 
www.chuckisraels.com
 


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Re: [Finale] New Articulations font

[bill]

Hi All,

I tried to post a pdf of the draft of my new Articulations font on here, but
apparently, the moderator won't let me post anything bigger than 40K (the
pdf is around 90K).

For those of you who are interested, if you want to take a gander at it and
make suggestions (no matter how pickey), email me at:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   and
I'll forward it to you for your perusal.

Those of you who give me constructive input will get a free copy of the font
when it's done.  I'm hoping that, with your help, this could be the
definitive articulations font, if that's even possible.

Thanks

Bill Duncan
206-780-2875

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Re: [Finale] 2006b, GPO vs Non GPO sounds

[bill]

 From: Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:37:15 +0100
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] 2006b, GPO vs Non GPO sounds
 
 On 17.12.2005 Darcy James Argue wrote:
 Johannes, your advice might make sense if you are only writing for a
 small ensemble. However, because of the way Finale handles channels
 for AU/VST instruments, if you are writing for more than 8
 instruments, it is MUCH faster to use the Setup Wizard. Manually
 configuring your GPO setup is tedious, time-consuming and introduces
 the possibility of error (especially the error of accidentally
 loading a non-notation instrument).
 
 Even if you need to modify staff names or attributes after the fact,
 that's still quite a bit faster than manually loading GPO
 instruments, one at a time, for an entire orchestral score.
 
 I am not so sure what is more time consuming (see below), however, my
 main point is that the setup wizard in conjunction with GPO does not at
 all work how it should work.
 


FWIW, the ensembles.txt and instruments.txt files can be customized to
make the Setup Wizard behave more to your liking.  Just mimmick the
formatting and revise at will in a simple text editor.  Not having Fin2006
yet (it's coming), I am not familiar with GPO yet, but I'll study it when I
get it.

Bill Duncan

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[Finale] New Articulations Font

[bill]

 From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:37:20 -0800
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
 
 I think we need more articulations in Maestro for Jazz. I think Bill
 Duncan was going to do something but who knows.
 
 I can't really think of anything that I complain about other than
 looking for some sort of jazz articulation, and not finding it, and when
 I get done with a project and have to extract and format
 parts..always dread that.


Hi all,

I am working on a new Articulations font as we speak.  It will contain all
traditional music articulations, including those for jazz notation, in an
engraver style.  When it is presentable, I will post a PDF of everything
up here for your comments and suggestions.  I am hoping that this might
become the definitive articulations font, and I value your input.  I trust
you all much more than those at MM who make artistic decisions.  Any input
and/or wish lists from you are welcome.

Bill Duncan

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Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts

[bill]

 From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:25 -0500
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
 
 A minor dilemma:
 
 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting
 parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like
 to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as
 well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't
 just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest,
 a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest.

Enter actual rests in the resting parts and apply the fermata to the target
rest.  Multimeasure rests will be broken for that measure, and it will be
clear as a bell to the resting player, especially appreciated by orchestral
percussion players.

 
 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters.

That would depend on the rhythmic pattern being played elsewhere.  For
example, dotted-quarter/eighth repeated patterns are much more clearly
indicated with a dotted quarter rest then a quarter/eighth.
 
 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat
 2Š and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new
 tempo on beat 1 of the following measureŠ it seems like a dotted half
 rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case?

It depends on where the upbeat to the next measure is and what is going on
with that upbeat.  Always allow some clear representation of what the upbeat
is (and what's going on with it) with either a note or a rest.

Bill Duncan


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Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts

[bill]

Darcy,

After thinking a bit more, what is really the best thing to do is to put a
cue line in the resting parts (either with notes or rhythms) and indicate it
as such.  Make sure you include the applicable pick-ups for the next
downbeat.  It will be even less ambiguous than simply entering rests.  If,
however, it is a simple fermata on the last note and a simple downbeat to
the following measure, don't annoy the cat by giving unnecessary
information.  Apply the fermata as a measure expression, position it
accordingly, and us a double bar or a tempo change indication (if
applicable) to visually flag the section.  Again, it depends on the
situation.

Bill

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Re: [Finale] Possible new fonts (jazz chords and articulations)

[bill]

Title: Re: [Finale] Possible new fonts (jazz chords and articulations)



I'm beginning to like this group! Thanks all for your kind remarks. Karen, what you said about my work almost made me tear up because during my experience in LA, no one seemed to care. What you said kind of made my LA-hell experience almost worth the trouble. Thank you.

As far as what font I use, it's a mixture of Maestro and Engraver and some others for the default music font (I made my own). My Chord fonts took over a year to develop with the help of several A-list session players in LA who have seen just about everything. My only goal was to make something compact yet easy to read...especially for those of us over 45 (you know who you are and why I bring that up). 

My mantra for notation is this and this only: Be impossible to misunderstand. I don't care about tradition. I am not a music notation historian and I refuse to go down that road for the sake of tradition only, as some traditional practices frankly stink. As you all have made very clear, music notation still has a bit of growing to do, and the advent of electronic notation has opened a new can of worms.

I would like to be a part whatever is going on and to help make things better for all of us. And, I am looking forward to getting to know you all better, as I have not had the privilege of being with my peers for some time. Thanks for this.

Bill Duncan



I agree with what Chuck is saying here.  I too use the Maestro font for Jazz Chartsunless a client absolutely insists that I use the Jazz font.  The Jazz font doesn't look as professional in my opinion.  I have shape expressions for scoops etc. that I use.  

I don't own any of Bill Duncan's fonts but I visited his site the other day and I must say, that is some of the most beautiful Finale work that I have ever seen.  It doesn't get any clearer than that!  Beautiful work Bill!  

FWIW

Karen


Just for the record, I have said before that I prefer the Maestro/Duncan combination to the jazz font (and any other hand written style font I've seen), even with the scoops, bends and fall-offs from the jazz font when they are necessary.  Please, no flames.  This is just one person's preference - based on considerable experience, but still, just an opinion.  If Bill is able to come up with a set of jazz articulations (not so many, really) that look as if they belong to Maestro, I'll be happy enough.

I do like fonts, and design, and elements that ad beauty and interest to the graphic representation of music, but in the end, it's clarity and ease of communication of the musical idea that trumps everything else for me, and I find Maestro less distracting than the Jazz font.  If Eric is counting votes in this informal poll, David Berger falls into the camp that doesn't like the Jazz font.  He thinks it looks like the work of a bad copyist.

Chuck

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Re: [Finale] JazzFont, etc.

[bill]

I have two enclosure fonts.  Rehearsal has drop-shadows and is very
useful for pointing out structure.  The second is Enclosure which I only
use for text situations where the standard text box enclosures are
unavailable (custom smart shape lines, etc.).

For simple enclosures, I use the stock enclosure option in the Text
Expression Designer with a line thickness of 2.5 EVPUs and make the
enclosure Opaque.  This allows the use of arrow lines to point to specific
notes or whatever in the staff from anywhere in the enclosed text, with the
beginninng of the line being (being hidden by the opaque internal text
field) appearing to be perfectly attached to the enclosure every time, from
anywhere, and with extremely little fuss.

To me, this makes more sense than to be stuck with a fixed indicator on a
text box font character because there are few choices as to where the box
can be.

FWIW...

Bill Duncan



 From: Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:32:27 -0400
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] JazzFont, etc.
 
 
 On Oct 27, 2005, at 3:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
 
 While I think the Jazz Font settings look very poor by default, I also
 think it's very possible to get good results with the font if you
 spend some time setting up your own template. There are examples on my
 music prep website, and, not to climb on a high horse or anything, but
 I don't think they look like very amateur hand copying.  (They would
 look even better if Robert's Patterson Beams supported my ideal beam
 thickness of 15 EVPUs.)
 
 I would also have to agree with those who feel that the choice of font
 is relatively unimportant compared to the details of size, layout,
 spacing, phrasing, line weights, placement, etc, that separate a
 well-copied chart from a poorly-copied chart. 
 
 In fact, the main reason I used the Jazz Font in the first place was
 not the music characters, but the text enclosures, which are
 absolutely key in sight-reading situations. This is why I hesitated
 long and hard before switching to Maestro for my own work. (Which is
 still an experiment -- I may still switch back to JazzFont, especially
 if Bill comes out with a nice manuscript-style chord font.) There is
 still not really any equivalent to the Jazz Text enclosures in any
 non-manuscript font. There is Bill Duncan's Enclosure font, which is
 very nice, but -- unlike Jazz Text -- lacks the ability to include a
 visual cue as to whether it has been assigned above the staff or
 below.
 
 
 Not that I would be particularly eager to kludge this, but now that you
 can mix fonts in text expressions you CAN use the JazzText enclosures
 with other fonts.
 
 I'm not convinced that it would necessarily look great, though. Those
 enclosures (like everything else in JazzFont) are pretty bold, and suit
 the JazzText better than they suit any other font that I commonly use.
 
 Christopher
 
 
 
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Re: [Finale] MIDI file questions

[bill]

Chuck,

That's a tall order to accomplish on here.  Maybe give me a call and 
I'll walk you through it.  It's not difficult, but there's a lot of 
stuff to consider.


Thanks again for your kind words!

Bill Duncan


On Oct 27, 2005, at 9:06 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:


Hi Folks,

I am preparing some scores for Gary Garritan to use as demos for the 
new Jazz/Big Band library, and I have some questions (never having 
done this kind of thing before).  Does the midi file care what 
playback instruments were assigned to staves in the score?  I imagine 
not, but I'd like to be sure.  I have no percussion map.  I don't use 
playback for drum parts.  Will whoever works on these files and tweaks 
the music be able to assign percussion sounds?


What must I know/do to make this work as smoothly as possible.  At 
this point, all I've done is to save the scores as type 1 MIDI files.


Thanks in advance for your information and advice.

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] Possible new fonts (jazz chords and articulations)

[bill]

 
 What I say is: either use proper computer fonts for music, or
 switch off and take to pen and ink again.
 
 I fall in to this camp, but I am curious about the things that Mark
 describes.  I am not at all unhappy with the engraved look of my
 music in Maestro and Bill Duncan's additions to it.
 

ditto...not so much for my stuff, but for the concept.

Bill

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Re: [Finale] trill notation question

[bill]

I don't remember who brought it up (Karen, I think?  I apologize!), but I
really like the idea of tr 1/2 and tr WH, which I have never seen
before.  It makes perfect sense to me, and is so easy, but it is not (as of
yet) common practice.  I understand that a tr implies trilling diatonically,
but so many composers are writing chromatic scores these days that even a
trill must be defined precicely every time.  Unfortunately the parenthesized
target note is a pain in the neck to do, even with TGTools, having to
repair the parenthetical target note all the time (one more thing to
forget to do when you're under the gun).  Just a comment...

Bill Duncan



 From: Mark D Lew [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:27:05 -0700
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] trill notation question
 
 
 On Oct 23, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
 
 But if you really want the belt-and-suspenders approach (so your pants
 REALLY won't fall down!) then tr b would certainly be correct.
 [...]
 
 While I agree that nothing is technically wrong with the tr b
 notation, I wouldn't call it the true belt-and-suspenders solution.
 The way I see it, if you don't mark the trill at all, the player is
 naturally going to trill to Ab.  What are the alternatives?  Without
 any markings, there's no reason why a player would think he's supposed
 to go to Abb (ie, G nat), and trilling Gb to A nat is going to feel
 very weird, so of course he'll do Ab.
 
 If, on the other hand, you actually mark a flat in there, the player is
 going to double-take and think, wait, why did they write a flat there?
 It's already flat. Am I supposed to go to double-flat?  And then the
 player is overthinking the situation and unsure what to do, whereas if
 you'd said nothing at all he would have been fine.
 
 So I'd say that the simple solution is to not mark the trill at all,
 and the belt-and-suspenders solution is either a flat in parentheses or
 a spell it out with a cue note.
 
 mdl
 
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Re: [Finale] Possible new fonts (jazz chords and articulations)

[bill]

Hi all,

I can imbed horizontal offsets in the font so that scoops and falls place
correctly by clicking directly on the note (with some help using H  V
handle position values in the Articulations Editor).  I have had much
success with this in my Salzedo font (the L.V. symbol...sideways
parenthesis), and my Brackets and Rolls fonts.  This should not be a
problem.

Also, from the limited discussion so far, there seems to be a clear
consensus of what both the jazz chord and the articulations fonts should
look like.  More examples are always welcome, but what I really need most is
a comprehensive collection of jazz articulations.  I suppose I could plow
through the Jazz font and get them from there, but I am guessing that their
key mapping is a bit non-intuitive, which I also intend to fix.

Anyway, I'll get on it in late November after my ballet gig is over.  In the
meantime, any more input is always welcome.

Bill Duncan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
206-780-2875



 From: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:58:34 -0700
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Possible new fonts (jazz chords and articulations)
 
 
 On Oct 24, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
 
 There will always be a problem placing non-centred articulations
 like a fall or scoop, because the horizontal positioning works from
 your click point. If you are a millimetre too far left, then the
 articulation will be, too. The bend places correctly every time
 because it has the box checked Centre over note, which cannot be
 checked for the scoops and falls.
 
 So, does this mean that it is impossible (impractical) to set the
 handles of such articulations to be centered over the note head, and
 the articulation offset for correct placement?  Is there a problem I
 don't understand which would prevent that solution?
 
 
 
 The bend is a reasonable match I think, though it still looks a bit
 crafted for Maestro.
 
 My sentiments too.  It's just the variation in line thickness that
 makes it look as if it doesn't match Maestro.  I don't mind the
 softened line ends.  They relate nicely to Bill's chord slashes and
 rhythmic notation.
 
 
 The other two are ridiculously bold for the delicate head and stem
 of the Maestro notes, but you could always reduce the point size of
 those articulations to make them less bold, and at the same time
 smaller (so you might have to choose a different character to make
 it look the same length.)
 
 You've suggested this to me earlier, and I fooled around with it a
 little but didn't get close enough to be any more satisfied.  Have
 you done this with any success?
 
 
 
 But to match Maestro perfectly, this will take some of Bill's magic...
 
 Exactly.  Please tell Bill what you'd like.  He seems to be in the
 mood to tackle this, and my impression is that once he gets into that
 mode of operation, it's not that much harder to supply a variety of
 useful shapes.
 
 I always appreciate your suggestions.
 
 Chuck
 
 
 
 
 Christopher
 
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 Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
 phone (360) 671-3402
 fax (360) 676-6055
 www.chuckisraels.com
 
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[Finale] Possible new fonts (jazz chords and articulations)

[bill]

Hi guys,

Chuck, would you like to be my sales rep???  hehehe  You are so kind to talk
about my stuff the way you do.

I had a thought about about a new articulations font:

From what I am hearing, there are not a lot of jazz articulations needed, so
I am thinking about an all-inclusive Articulations font that contains
everything (both jazz and legit).  There seems to be plenty of slots in the
font to accommodate them all.  I don't know about you all, but I'm still not
satisfied with any of the out-of-the-box articulations in the fonts that MM
supplies.  Maybe I could put together an articulations font that all of us
agree with for everything and be done with it.

For what it's worth, I'm not really interested in doing the work unless it
can be the definitive font for articulations, so I guess I'm asking for
input from anyone here.  I trust you guys way more than those who influence
MM's artistic decisions, and I admit that I don't know
everything...especially with jazz articulations.

As far as the jazz chords font, could someone send me a scanned page of
anything (containing lots of chords, of course) from Sher Music Co's The
Standards Real Book?  If it's not for sale, I'm not really in a position to
get it.  Also, if anyone has anything else that they feel particularly
strongly about, I'd love to see them too.

All the best!  I'm getting excited about this...

Bill Duncan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
206-780-2875



 From: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:26:36 -0700
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Jazz version of ChordSuf?
 
 
 On Oct 23, 2005, at 1:13 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
 
 Yeah, I too bought the Ash Font, but have rarely used it. I do use
 the jazz font, but basically only to use the articulations in it,
 as it does have scoops and what not. I also bought the swing font
 (www.jazzfont.com), from the author of the Jazz Font. Though, I
 have found that I don't care for the look of it anymore.
 
 If Bill could come up with articulations, then I might buy his
 Productivity product. Looking at the examples, he has just about
 everything else one would want in his library except for
 articulations and jazz type things
 
 Eric,
 
 There are many things in Bill's productivity package that are
 overkill for my needs, but every time I use one of the things that
 I do need, I wonder how I'd have done without it.  There are some
 really good smart shapes and special staff styles, as well as
 specialized harp notation, which I rarely need, but which I imagine
 would be terrific for anyone who did a lot of harp writing.  Some
 other things are specially good for recording circumstances, where
 there can be no doubt about what's on the page, and there's little
 tolerance for error.  Those things may be overly bold for more normal
 circumstances, but they're still worth a look.  There's a lot of good
 stuff there.
 
 Chuck
 
 
 
 
 And on the Bill Rowen thing, I'm sure if you gave examples of how
 he wrote things, someone around here probably has the know how to
 make a font out of it.
 
 Chuck Israels wrote:
 
 Hi Bill et al,
 
 Perhaps Chris, Darcy, Greg Hamilton, and some others can help to
 come up with a set of a few jazz articulations that most of us
 need.  I use few of them; a fall-off, a scoop up to pitch, and one
 that indicates a drop and rise in pitch.  Something for a brass
 shake would also be useful to many.  That's all I'd need, but
 there are undoubtedly others who have different requirements.  I
 am using shapes from the Jazz Font articulations for these at the
 moment, and it is true that they seem overly thick and bold for
 the rest of the Maestro Font that I am using, but I can live with
 them.  If you (Bill) can improve on them - with advice from
 thoughtful people here, I'm sure many would appreciate it.
 
 I don't use the Jazz font - with the exception of those
 articulations, but many do.  I am sympathetic to the desire to
 achieve a look that is more informal, perhaps more spontaneous
 looking than Maestro and Engraver, but I have yet to find a
 handwritten style font that I like.  (I looked at the Ash Font
 and even bought a copy.  I prefer it to Jazz, but not enough to
 use it regularly.)  There is something about high quality hand
 copying that I love, and I got used to beautiful work from Bill
 Rowen, who did most of the copying for the National Jazz Ensemble,
 and from whom I learned a great deal about music preparation.  I
 don't think we'd have fired a good copyist whose style looked like
 the Jazz Font, but we'd surely have continued to look for the kind
 of elegant work that Bill Rowen produced for us.
 
 Chuck
 
 
 
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 230 North Garden Terrace
 Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
 phone (360) 671-3402
 fax (360) 676-6055
 www.chuckisraels.com

Re: [Finale] Jazz version of ChordSuf?

[bill]

Hi Christopher,

I would be happy to except that MakeMusic would have to sanction it because
of their copyright issues.  I have had problems with them in the past, and
they  have absolutely no interest (that I know of) in the work I have done
with my chord font set.  Possibly you and other interested parties could
petition MM to allow me to do it, as I seem to carry little weight with
them on my own.

Bill Duncan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



 From: Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:40:15 -0400
 To: finale@shsu.edu
 Subject: [Finale] Jazz version of ChordSuf?
 
 Bill Duncan,
 
 Glad to see you on the list, where I can publicly buttonhole you and
 ask you outright: Any chance of you coming up with a chord suffix font
 like your brilliant, ingenious ChordSuf, but that matches more closely
 with the JazzFont, to replace the inadequate JazzCord? I, for one,
 would be an enthusiastic client, and I hope that some of the other
 listers who (try to) use JazzFont in their work will support me on
 this.
 
 Then, in an ideal world, MakeMusic will pay you big bucks to include it
 in the next version of Finale...
 
 Hopefully,
 
 Christopher
 
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Re: [Finale] Jazz version of ChordSuf?

[bill]

Hi Darcy and others,

No one I know uses or likes the Jazz fonts, so I had no idea that there 
was so much interest in this.  Is it possible for you or someone to 
send me a pdf scan of what you think is ideal?  Also, Chuck Israels and 
Greg Hamilton expressed interest in a jazz articulation font that is 
not as loud as the jazz font but nicer than improvising from an 
existing text font or those awful Finale shapes that are pretty 
useless from an Automatic Music Spacing aspect.  I am not a jazzer, so 
I don't really have a good vocabulary of those and any input would be 
appreciated, as I think that font as well would be useful to all.


I will be able to start work on one or both at the end of November, and 
any/all input is welcome.


Bill Duncan


On Oct 22, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:


Hi Bill,

I don't think Chris meant that he wanted you to copy JazzChord exactly 
-- which would might involve copyright issues (although I don't know 
-- there are obviously lots of font knock-off versions out there).  I 
think he just meant that he would be interested in a 
handwritten-looking version of ChordSuf, which would not involve any 
copyright issues at all.  [Nobody owns the copyright on any and all 
handwritten-style chord fonts!]


Given your expertise, I'm sure you could come up with a 
handwritten-looking chord font that is far superior to anything else 
out there -- and if you're looking for inspiration, check out Sher 
Music Co's The Standards Real Book -- which is by far the 
nicest-looking handwritten chord font I've seen.  It is 
(unfortunately) not for sale.  But if you could come up with something 
of similar quality, that included the ease-of-use of ChordSuf, I'm 
sure it would sell like gangbusters.


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://homepage.mac.com/djargon
Brooklyn, NY



On 22 Oct 2005, at 3:48 PM, bill wrote:


Hi Christopher,

I would be happy to except that MakeMusic would have to sanction it 
because
of their copyright issues.  I have had problems with them in the 
past, and
they  have absolutely no interest (that I know of) in the work I have 
done
with my chord font set.  Possibly you and other interested parties 
could
petition MM to allow me to do it, as I seem to carry little weight 
with

them on my own.

Bill Duncan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





From: Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:40:15 -0400
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] Jazz version of ChordSuf?

Bill Duncan,

Glad to see you on the list, where I can publicly buttonhole you and
ask you outright: Any chance of you coming up with a chord suffix 
font
like your brilliant, ingenious ChordSuf, but that matches more 
closely

with the JazzFont, to replace the inadequate JazzCord? I, for one,
would be an enthusiastic client, and I hope that some of the other
listers who (try to) use JazzFont in their work will support me on
this.

Then, in an ideal world, MakeMusic will pay you big bucks to include 
it

in the next version of Finale...

Hopefully,

Christopher

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Re: [Finale] Notes EVERYWHERE

[bill]

Hi gang,

Chuck got it right concerning Update Layout (command-\ on a Mac).  
Being a casual lurker, I must admit that this forum is the best I've 
seen, and those who read the postings here are being given first class 
advice for free.  Bravo!


However, after listening to you all, I am even more leery of 2k6.  I'm 
still on 2k5 and the Update Layout issue should not be an issue since 
it was never a problem since Fin 98 (ish) up until recently.  This is 
only one of many that MM doesn't seem to want to fix or even recognize. 
 It makes me wonder who does their beta-testing.


I am wondering of this group here might band together and lobby to have 
MM spend the paltry 1% of their development resources to get it right 
for us and be done with it.  Or, possibly, encourage them to release a 
Finale Pro version without the stupid garbage they've concentrated on 
in the past few versions.  I'm getting really frustrated with MM, as 
I'm sure most of you are too.  Would it make any sense to compile a 
master wish list and present it to MM as a group?  Sorry to vent...


Bill Duncan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.gwmp.com


On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:49 PM, Brennon Bortz wrote:

After opening a new default document and entering notes in Speedy 
Entry in
Scroll View, I switch to Page View and suddenly notes have veered off 
the
edges of the page on nearly every staff.  Applying any time of music 
spacing

only worsens the problem?  Redrawing the screen doesn't fix the problem
either.  Staff optimization does.  Is optimization the ONLY way to 
correct

this?

Thanks,
Brennon Bortz
--
Brennon Bortz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Finale] Notes EVERYWHERE

[bill]

On Oct 21, 2005, at 7:52 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:


On 21 Oct 2005 at 18:09, bill wrote:


I'm
still on 2k5 and the Update Layout issue should not be an issue since
it was never a problem since Fin 98 (ish) up until recently.  This is
only one of many that MM doesn't seem to want to fix or even
recognize.


I'm not understanding your point.

Are you saying that updating the layout *doesn't* update it?

Or that it isn't updating it properly?

Or simply that you believe you shouldn't have to tell Finale to
update the layout (which you don't, if you turn on automatic layout
update)?

What exactly is the issue that MakeMusic has not fixed? I don't see
one here -- all I see is a program design issue that trips up some
people for about 5 minutes until they realize that they have to do
something to get the layout updated.

--
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc



I feel really stupid:  My Automatic Update in 2k5 upgrade was unchecked 
after many years of assuming that upgrading to the next invaluable 
version of Finale would preserve previous and relevant settings.


However, I *do* have major problems with the direction that MM is 
going, and I feel that you are ignoring and dismissing my sentiments 
with that.  Even though I was incorrect in my last assertion, the issue 
with layout update should *never* occur, and that option should never 
be available, given the results rendered without it.


I am happy to debate you.  You decide whether or not you want to debate 
here in the open or privately, or not at all.  That's up to you.


I have owned my copy of Finale from the very beginning (very low 
3-digit serial # back when putting a staccato on a note took more than 
10 menu selections).  I can be brainless sometimes, as in this case I 
admit, but I am not stupid, and I am trying to find some way to coerce 
MM to spend 10 minutes and fix a long list of problems that they have 
continued to ignore for years.


The most obvious now it the new Text Expression Editor, which looks 
wonderful on the surface (and should have been done 10 years ago), but 
their extremely poor concept of dealing with text still remains, and 
some of the features are lost or poorly done...including baseline shift 
not behaving in the editor window as it does on the page, and, from 
what I hear, line spacing not working in 2k6 at all.


I am happy to give you my list when I have some time to write it, but I 
am busy with a ballet which goes on stage in mid-November.  The list is 
very long, and very nit-picky to some, but I don't think it is 
unreasonable, and easily solvable if MM actually cared about us 
professionals instead of marketing to music wannabes.  Personally, I 
would be happy to pay $2000 for a music notation program that actually 
worked and was stable, than to pay $5000 over the course of 10 years 
for something that is almost OK, and is always slightly better than 
the competition and doesn't really work very well, and with chronic 
problems that are never corrected.


As far as Update Layout is concerned (it used to be called Recalc 
Music in the early days), that should have been included as part of 
updating the preferences with the new version.  In the early days, 
there was no Automatic Update Layout, and I am so used to doing a 
command-\ every few measures that I didn't think about it at this 
later stage of Finale's existence.  I know that it's a small detail, 
but our business is made or broken in the details.


I welcome your comments, as well as those from anyone else.

Bill Duncan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Finale] Garritan

[Bill Thompson]

Hi Gary,
Great question!!!
Gary Griffiths wrote:
Im becoming more interested in the standard of my playback in Finale 
(WinFin2k5) and I am hearing a lot of good things about GPO. However, 
I cant find anything in the OLM about how to use it with Finale, 
apart from one section on Human playback that explains about GPO, but 
not exactly how to use it.

There are a number of tutorials and tips on the Garritan web site in 
their support section... but the short answer is that there is a pretty 
steep learning curve, or at least there was for me.

Does it work seamlessly with Human Playback once installed?
Not really... Human Playback uses various MIDI controller messages to 
try to imbue a score with some animation or human-ness, and GPO uses 
different MIDI controller messages to attain the same effect. The 
biggest difference is that GPO is really meant to be played, and the 
Human Playback feature in Finale is meant to interpret a sequence of 
events codified in a score. When you stop to think about it, they are 
two dramatically different approaches!!

Do you have to pick different samples for everything (solos, pizz, 
arco, trem etc. etc. etc.) or does that work seamlessly too?

There are a couple of mechanisms for picking different patches/samples, 
but you have to manage it yourself using either patch change messages or 
key switching. It works, but seamless would probably be a bit generous.

My scores are quite meticulous in their dynamics, articulations etc. 
Would Finale and GPO pick these up automatically?

This is probably the biggest rub... Finale uses MIDI volume messages and 
GPO uses the modulation wheel. At first I thought it was an odd choice, 
but after some experimentation I discovered that GPO is changing a lot 
more than just volume, and it makes for a much more expressive performance.

Do I need to export my score in some way into another programme and 
then process it through GPO?

That seems to be about the best way to go today. As this thread 
demonstrates, there are two camps, and they have rather opposite points 
of view. Camp #1 thinks that sequencers should sequence and scoring 
packages should present scores. This is, I believe, a result of 
technical limitations that existed for most of the life of the MIDI 
standard. Older computers could do only so much, and older programmers 
could write only so much code, or even have an appreciation for the 
finer points of so many topics. If you want a really powerful scoring 
tool you need to look at Finale, Sibelius, Rosegarden, and a couple of 
others. None of them provide what most would classify as even meager 
sequencing capabilities.

If you want complete control over the sequence then you need to look at 
tools like Sonar, Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, Freestyle, etc. I 
think all would agree that their scoring tools are weak, but you do have 
tremendous control over the performance itself, even if you don't have a 
musical keyboard or other MIDI controller for input.

I'm fairly active on a couple of Sonar mailing lists/newservers, and the 
request for better standard notation tools comes up frequently. 
Similarly, Finale users want to push the envelope on sequencing within 
Finale. I don't think either group is going to be completely happy any 
time soon. I think that the Human Playback feature works well enough for 
its intended purpose, which is a rough approximation of what humans 
might do with a score. In fact I think it works really well!

I am of the opinion that two tools are still necessary, and I go one 
step further, if I need an audio file I usually (not always, sometimes I 
get lazy or don't have time) play the parts in from the keyboard or a 
MIDI guitar controller. Then, if I'm feeling really ambitious I edit the 
daylights out of themG!

But, I grew up when editing tools could also be used to shave your beard 
after three long days in the studio. As a rule, I seldom perform edits 
to audio or MIDI data that I couldn't do with a razor blade or a mute 
switch. I find that this quite often helps me to preserve the feel of a 
performance, and that's usually what I'm after.

And that rule is not some kind of dinosaur reaction to the current 
tools, but just a line in the sand. And the wind does, from time to time 
move the line. But I like human performances, and since I can't afford 
to hire an orchestra every time I have to find the next best thing... 
which for me is samplers like GigaStudio and sample playback tools like 
GPO. In fact, while the quality of sample available for Gigastudio is 
superior to GPO, I find that lately I use GPO almost exclusively for the 
instruments it provides, and only turn to GigaStudio for things that 
aren't part of GPO.

My two cents
Bill
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Re: [Finale] Re: Johnny Williams

[Bill Thompson]

Rafael Velasco wrote:
He was born in Melbourne, Australia in 1941.
At least that is what I read at http://www.griot.de/biojohnwilliams.html
Thanks... I stand corrected!
Cool site tooG!!
Bill
--
Bill Thompson
Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
Most of us think of mathmatics as those chicken tracks-little wiggle signs. 
That isn't math!
That's the fossil remnants of a thought... Math is structured learning.
Richard Heyser
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[Finale] Common Names - was Re: Johnny Williams

[Bill Thompson]

Bernard Savoie wrote:
Been through this on another list I think.  There are so many John 
Williams it those start to get confusing.  Here's the list of the 
musical John Williams who I know about (don't even think about the 
telephone book): list snipped
I too suffer from a fairly common name... but it really isn't all bad! 
And especially after seeing that list!!!

In addition to me (which is really pretty arrogant when you think about 
the list) I've run across a bunch of Bill Thompsons in the 
Pro-Audio/MI/Music field. Some that I remember include the founder of 
Ashley Audio, one of the senior guys at Analog Devices (not sure what 
his role there is these days), the road manager for Jefferson Starship, 
the QA manager at Line6, and at least three other studio owners. It's a 
lot of fun at the AES showG!

Bill
--
Bill Thompson
Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
Most of us think of mathmatics as those chicken tracks-little wiggle signs. 
That isn't math!
That's the fossil remnants of a thought... Math is structured learning.
Richard Heyser
--
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Re: [Finale] Re: Johnny Williams

[Bill Thompson]

Rocky Road wrote:
Could you be referring to John Williams the British classical 
guitarist and founder of Sky??
I always thought of him as an Australian. I'm not sure why. Was he 
born in Australia?
I honestly don't know for certain. I am reasonably sure I read somewhere 
that he was British, but that particular brain cell could be damaged!

I'll do some homework...
Bill
--
Bill Thompson
Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
Most of us think of mathmatics as those chicken tracks-little wiggle signs. 
That isn't math!
That's the fossil remnants of a thought... Math is structured learning.
Richard Heyser
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Re: [Finale] Re: OT: Who are you?

[Bill Thompson]

Hello Michael...
So you are the guy I need to thank for MusicXML eh??? Well, thanks! I 
was introduced to this cool tool a couple of years ago when I needed to 
scan in some music, and the only solution that I could rely on was 
SharpEye, Finale, and MusicXML. I doff my cap in your general direction!!!

I'll get to the off-topic topic shortlyG...
Bill
--
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Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to 
discover them.
Galileo Galilei.
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Re: [Finale] Re: Johnny Williams

[Bill Thompson]

David Hage wrote:
On 4/1/05 6:00 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 

There are two John Williamses IIRC--one a jazz pianist and one a movie
composer.
Likewise with John Eaton-one jazz pianist, one composer.
Jim no relation to either Williams
   

If you are referring to Johnny Williams the jazz pianist around in the
early 50's they are one and the same.
Could you be referring to John Williams the British classical guitarist 
and founder of Sky??

Bill
--
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Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to 
discover them.
Galileo Galilei.
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Re: [Finale] TAN: 'Classical music' what is it?

[Bill Thompson]

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 01:57 PM 10/15/04 -0600, Jane Frasier wrote:
 

I have been asked by some non-musician  friends what the definition of 
classical music is. How is it different from non-classical music. 
   

Ow ow ow. Stop my lips from speaking! Mmewuvdascdjaldlasjlf..
Phew. Just in time.
Anybody else?
Oh heck, it's Friday afternoon, I'll take a stabG...
As another poster pointed out, there are periods of art/music history 
that are already more-or-less agreed upon, such as the baroque period, 
the romantic period, etc. Based on that timeline classical music is 
generally agreed upon to be from those periods, which is circular 
reasoning to a point, but since people like labels it works.

Modern music is a little more difficult to classify simply because we 
don't have the frame of reference.

One of the things I remember from my junior high school music classes is 
that classical music was defined, in part, as music that stood the test 
of time. That is, we were still listening to it hundreds of years later.

But I remember that same teacher explaining to us that very little 
popular music of the 60s and early 70s would survive that same test of time.

Hmmm...
In college we dug a little deeper, and we looked at the popular 
mechanisms that formed the framework in which classical music was 
created. Which led to another attempt to create a dividing line, the 
so-called serious music vs. popular music. Serious music had some 
mystical power that we couldn't really defineG!

For my own meager attempt to categorize my record and cd collection I 
tend to create the line by whether it is the composer or the artist that 
gets top billing. Certainly folks like Bernstein and even John Williams 
are more likely to be the draw than the orchestra that performs them. 
(Of course there are recordings of certain classical pieces I buy 
specifically because they were performed by the London Symphony 
Orchestra or the Philadelphia Orchestra or whatever - this doesn't 
really blur the line because it is still the composition that I am most 
interested in.)

Conversely, I really don't want to hear a cover of Chicago Transit 
Authority, I want to hear the boys who created it. The same is true of 
folk artists, blues artists, pretty much any popular music.

Jazz, of course, makes a mess of that whole theory, since there are both 
pieces and artists that get the limelight.

However, at least for the purpose of me finding a specific album, my 
composer vs performer concept helps. I mean you have to have some name 
by which to alphabetize things... don't you?

In the same line as the serious vs popular, jazz, at least the stuff 
that the serious jazz magazines write aboutG, is not nearly as 
accessible as pop. Could there be a dividing line based on 
accessibility? I don't think so, I think that borders on arrogant. 
Almost anyone can learn to appreciate classical or jazz music, I'm not 
certain the same is absolutely true for pop music!

For one example, let's look at artists like the belly baring blondes or 
the boy bands... they don't write their own music, they don't provide 
their own backing tracks, and they are not taken particularly seriously 
by anyone over the age of about 14. (And yes, I am very aware of the 
history of labels like MoTown... different rant for a different dayG). 
Will I ever learn to appreciate the music my 14 year old step-daughter 
listened to? I'm not sure, but I sort of hope not. Which is not to 
suggest that I dislike good pop music. I admire anyone who can write a 
great hook. However, I didn't hear great hooks in that stuff.

For another example, examine rap. I'm not about to argue the social 
issues, but the general level of anger, hate, etc, present in a lot of 
the music makes it inaccessible to me. There are rap artists I really 
like, but they tend to go past the boundaries of anger and hate. Check 
out Back on the Block by Quincy Jones if you want to hear what can be 
done in this idiom.

As my final example take a look at all the ambient and soft jazz stuff. 
I love experimental and electronic music, but I don't get the majority 
of the ambient music I've listened to. (Echoes is produced locally, and 
I do listen to it, and I even like some of it, but a lot of it gets past 
me.) And soft jazz? UGH! I just don't get the appeal of that stuff.

So, can any person learn to appreciate any musical form? Is that limited 
to serious music?

Heck if I knowG!
Have a great weekend...
Bill
--
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Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover 
them.
Galileo Galilei.
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[Finale] Shifting notes around...?

[Bill Spencer]

Hi there: For reasons I won't bore you with, I have one line of a multi-line
score where everything is shifted to the left by two quarter-notes. Is there
a way to insert those two quarters at the very beginning and realign it all?
The help stuff doesn't offer much of any help. I am poor and cheap enough to
be using FinMac2000c on OS9.1, FYI.



Bill Spencer in somewhat autumnal NH


If you don't go to other men's funerals, they won't go to yours.

--Clarence Day

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Re: [Finale] Crazy For You full score?

[Bill Thompson]

John Howell wrote:
However, I know of NO Broadway show that has a full score (Partiture 
to the librarians involved!) available, or even in existence.  I 
suspect that there was one and only one, R.R.Bennett's original, 
probably in pencil, and only the various copyists have ever seen it. 
Certainly none of the shows we've done as our summer musicals (13th 
year this summer) has had a full score.  Everything is 
Piano-Conductor, which is quite all right for conducting, but of no 
real help in rehearsals!  The orchestral parts for My Fair Lady 
are--surpise!--actually typeset, but still have lots of errors and a 
great many notations that do NOT match the piano-conductor and do NOT 
match other books.  The typesetting is great:  more notes per page, 
easier to read, fewer page turns.  The proofreading still leaves much 
to be desired, and of course NOBODY ever compiles and sends out lists 
of errata, so every production has to reinvent the wheel.
This thread has been great reading, though I've not worked on a musical 
in many many years. This last bit, thought, really got my attention. I 
played in pit bands for a number of years (sometimes miss it) strictly 
at the academic/amateur level, and we ALWAYS compiled a list of errata, 
which we sent to rental company when we returned the materials. I don't 
recall ever seeing one, which was probably why we created it! Odd that 
this information isn't shared!!!

Bill
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them.
Galileo Galilei.
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2005 development cycle?

[Bill Thompson]

Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Aaron Sherber wrote:
I'm not trying to be the king of Finale, and you're welcome to say 
whatever you like on this topic. My point was just that when we're 
discussing the bugs in Finale, the fact that you haven't encountered 
those bugs doesn't change the fact that they're still there. 
But does that mean that everyone encounters them? No. Oh, and now I 
can comment this topic even though your previous email said I 
shouldn't???
I've avoided responding to this thread because I knew things would get 
heated. But if I might interject for a moment...

I've been beta testing products in this arena since the late 1980's. 
Bugs are extremely frustrating things, and there are bugs that go out of 
their way to set new records in frustration.

Bugs exist.
Some bugs bite some people, but leave others alone, regardless of the 
features that everyone uses. Sometimes bugs are tied to the most arcane 
issues, like the version of a shared library that got installed by some 
other package, or the version of a driver, or even hardware device versions.

There are two issues that have to be considered. Most folks use the 
terms severity and priority to distinguish these issues.

For example, I had a bug where my system simply would not run the 
program in question (my apologies for dancing around specifics, there 
are NDAs involved) in a certain configuration. Out of a dozen people 
with very similar configurations (same motherboard, sound card, 
operating system, etc) I was the only one with the problem. It was, 
however, a fairly high priority bug for the developer because it could 
cause a lot of customers headaches. It was severe to me, but it wasn't 
severe, or even reproducible to other testers. In the end they found it, 
beats me how!

So, if Aaron has experienced a bug, and can reproduce it, it is severe 
to him. If Eric has never seen this particular bug it isn't severe to 
him. This does not imply that either user uses more features, that is 
one possible explanation, but it isn't the only one. And if you are 
Aaron, you get really really steamed when other folks don't have the 
same problem. And if you are Erik, you get annoyed at all the attention 
this bug gets from Aaron, and maybe others, cause you have other bugs or 
features that interest you.

And if you are MakeMusic, you are pulling your hair outG!
One of the single most difficult decisions a business has to make is 
which bugs and feature requests to address for any given version or 
patch. One factor is the amount of noise in the user community, and that 
is often a very fair metric (unless you are in the minorityG!) 
However, these software companies are often infested with technical 
folks, and technical folks have a whole nother view of the world. Among 
other things, they strive to write bug free code. They also usually have 
opinions on what is, and what is not important. And they are seldom shy 
in expressing them!!! Much to the chagrin of the marketing and sales and 
product management folks.

This list, and resources like it serve a very important purpose... they 
give us, the users, a voice. A very loud voice! And we need to use that 
feature as best we can. Part of that is not attacking eachother, or 
the folks at MakeMusic. It's hard not to attack sometimes.

I'm not a Finale power user by any stretch, but when it doesn't do 
something I want it to do I can get quite frustrated. Sometimes it is a 
product feature I just haven't figured out yet, and sometimes it is a 
bug, or a missing capability. Doesn't matter a whit in the heat of the 
moment... I get frustrated. (Fortunately my dog weighs about 80 pounds, 
so I couldn't kick him if I wanted to!)

So, my humble suggestion to everyone who wants to storm the MakeMusic 
castle (and it isn't completely undeserved)... take a moment, and then 
lets work together to get all of our requests and complaints heard. It 
is almost as important as the sharing of knowledge that goes on here.

Thanks, by the way, for all the knowledge I've gleaned from this group 
since I became a Finale user. Someday I hope to pay it back!

Bill
--
Bill Thompson
Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
--
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover 
them.
Galileo Galilei.
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