Re: [Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
On Apr 18, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Leigh Daniels wrote: wondering why Concert Pitch A in America is 440 Hz and different in Europe. He said when he was touring in Europe, he had to request the American 440 Hz tuning and if the piano was tuned to the European standard, the other performers had a hard time playing. I know that in the last 500-odd years the range has been 440 plus or minus about 50 Hz. Does anyone on the list know how America came to have 440 and Europe has a different frequency? **Leigh Ok, first of all, there is no different standard. The A-440 standard was adopted because in ages when instrumental music dominates, there is a constant pressure to raise the pitch because instruments sound more brilliant at higher pitches. Without regulation, the result is pitch inflation to uncomfortably high levels. Since A 440 was adopted as an international standard (by convention, not by law) ca. 100 yrs. ago, pitch inflation has been successfully capped--but it has not been abolished. A great many orchestras play sharp by small amounts, and this is what your friend seems to have encountered in Europe--though believe me, he could have easily found it in this country too. You're wrong about past pitch standards too. Instruments first came to the fore in the 16th century, and the resulting pitch inflation got so bad that by 1610 pitch was fully a minor third higher than it is today (Praetorius, for example, gives C below the bass staff as the standard bottom note for choral basses). Singers were going hoarse trying to sing old music at the notated pitches, and string players were snapping strings when they tuned up. To get around this, competing Chorton and Kammerton pitch standards were adopted for different types of ensembles. The two came back together in the late 18th c. (exactly how has never been clear to me), but pitch inflation persisted, and had once more become troublesome by the mid-19th c. A series of commissions settled on A-440 as a compromise, and that's how it's been ever since. (And since someone's bound to mention it, yes I know that the US held out for C-256 for many years after everyone else adopted A-440--but eventually we came round, and the end result is unity on a single standard. Watch for a similar outcome in RE the metric system.) There is, BTW, a short-wave radio station that does nothing but broadcast a continuous A-440 worldwide as the embodiment of the standard. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re(2): [Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
Andrew, Thanks for the detailed information! **Leigh On Tue, Apr 19, 2005, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, first of all, there is no different standard. The A-440 standard was adopted because in ages when instrumental music dominates, there is a constant pressure to raise the pitch because instruments sound more brilliant at higher pitches. Without regulation, the result is pitch inflation to uncomfortably high levels. Since A 440 was adopted as an international standard (by convention, not by law) ca. 100 yrs. ago, pitch inflation has been successfully capped--but it has not been abolished. A great many orchestras play sharp by small amounts, and this is what your friend seems to have encountered in Europe--though believe me, he could have easily found it in this country too. You're wrong about past pitch standards too. Instruments first came to the fore in the 16th century, and the resulting pitch inflation got so bad that by 1610 pitch was fully a minor third higher than it is today (Praetorius, for example, gives C below the bass staff as the standard bottom note for choral basses). Singers were going hoarse trying to sing old music at the notated pitches, and string players were snapping strings when they tuned up. To get around this, competing Chorton and Kammerton pitch standards were adopted for different types of ensembles. The two came back together in the late 18th c. (exactly how has never been clear to me), but pitch inflation persisted, and had once more become troublesome by the mid-19th c. A series of commissions settled on A-440 as a compromise, and that's how it's been ever since. (And since someone's bound to mention it, yes I know that the US held out for C-256 for many years after everyone else adopted A-440--but eventually we came round, and the end result is unity on a single standard. Watch for a similar outcome in RE the metric system.) There is, BTW, a short-wave radio station that does nothing but broadcast a continuous A-440 worldwide as the embodiment of the standard. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re(2): [Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
You can find more information here: http://encyclopedia.lockergnome.com/s/b/ Pitch_(music)#Historical_pitch_standards Michael Cook On 19 avr. 05, at 21:12, Leigh Daniels wrote: Andrew, Thanks for the detailed information! **Leigh On Tue, Apr 19, 2005, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, first of all, there is no different standard. The A-440 standard was adopted because in ages when instrumental music dominates, there is a constant pressure to raise the pitch because instruments sound more brilliant at higher pitches. Without regulation, the result is pitch inflation to uncomfortably high levels. Since A 440 was adopted as an international standard (by convention, not by law) ca. 100 yrs. ago, pitch inflation has been successfully capped--but it has not been abolished. A great many orchestras play sharp by small amounts, and this is what your friend seems to have encountered in Europe--though believe me, he could have easily found it in this country too. You're wrong about past pitch standards too. Instruments first came to the fore in the 16th century, and the resulting pitch inflation got so bad that by 1610 pitch was fully a minor third higher than it is today (Praetorius, for example, gives C below the bass staff as the standard bottom note for choral basses). Singers were going hoarse trying to sing old music at the notated pitches, and string players were snapping strings when they tuned up. To get around this, competing Chorton and Kammerton pitch standards were adopted for different types of ensembles. The two came back together in the late 18th c. (exactly how has never been clear to me), but pitch inflation persisted, and had once more become troublesome by the mid-19th c. A series of commissions settled on A-440 as a compromise, and that's how it's been ever since. (And since someone's bound to mention it, yes I know that the US held out for C-256 for many years after everyone else adopted A-440--but eventually we came round, and the end result is unity on a single standard. Watch for a similar outcome in RE the metric system.) There is, BTW, a short-wave radio station that does nothing but broadcast a continuous A-440 worldwide as the embodiment of the standard. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
At 6:00 PM -0400 4/18/05, Leigh Daniels wrote: Hello Knowledgeable Finale-ists, As part of a conversation with a pianist friend today, we both were wondering why Concert Pitch A in America is 440 Hz and different in Europe. He said when he was touring in Europe, he had to request the American 440 Hz tuning and if the piano was tuned to the European standard, the other performers had a hard time playing. As usual, Andrew's analysis is most excellent, and there are not two different official standards even though there continue to be local variations. But the statement above bothers me. He was touring in Europe and the European musicians had a hard time playing with a piano tuned to the European standard? Does not compute! I know that in the last 500-odd years the range has been 440 plus or minus about 50 Hz. That's one way to look at it, but it's a 440-centric way. The hard thing for modern musicians to understand and accept is that THERE WAS NO PITCH STANDARD beyond the pitch of the local organ. Chamber pitch in Paris, judging from surviving woodwinds, may have been the lowest in Europe. Pitch in Venice was reported to be the highest in Europe. In the Germanic Kingdoms there were at least 4 separate standards in use, but they were probably not tied to specific frequencies as we are used to. Some flutes survive with half-a-dozen different length middle joints to allow them to be played at different pitch standards. When large groups of musicians came together (there's a very complete description of a 16th century wedding for which over 90 musicians were on hand), they could not and did not play together because their instruments were built to different pitch standards. Instead of a musician having HIS instrument, and taking it with him to a variety of different gigs as we do today, he would use the instruments owned by the church or the chourt or the chapel where he was playing, which were built to the local pitch standard. The inventory taken on the death of Henry VIII lists many, many instruments and sets of instruments, but there's no guarantee that the instruments at one castle could have been played with the instruments from another. Does anyone on the list know how America came to have 440 and Europe has a different frequency? Not so, as Andrew pointed out. I'll do a little more research and may have more detail to offer later. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re(2): [Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
His American colleagues were the ones having trouble playing with him when he was playing the Euro-tuned piano. I think it might have been some brass or wind players. **Leigh On Tue, Apr 19, 2005, John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As part of a conversation with a pianist friend today, we both were wondering why Concert Pitch A in America is 440 Hz and different in Europe. He said when he was touring in Europe, he had to request the American 440 Hz tuning and if the piano was tuned to the European standard, the other performers had a hard time playing. As usual, Andrew's analysis is most excellent, and there are not two different official standards even though there continue to be local variations. But the statement above bothers me. He was touring in Europe and the European musicians had a hard time playing with a piano tuned to the European standard? Does not compute! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
Hello Knowledgeable Finale-ists, As part of a conversation with a pianist friend today, we both were wondering why Concert Pitch A in America is 440 Hz and different in Europe. He said when he was touring in Europe, he had to request the American 440 Hz tuning and if the piano was tuned to the European standard, the other performers had a hard time playing. I know that in the last 500-odd years the range has been 440 plus or minus about 50 Hz. Does anyone on the list know how America came to have 440 and Europe has a different frequency? **Leigh ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Concert Pitch A: Europe v. America
It's 440 in Manchester (although it is creeping up) I wasn't aware that there was a new european standard, but that certain orchestras were tending to play slightly higher than 440. All the best, Lawrence "þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
