Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)

[tim-cates]

However, in most pop music charts that I've seen (especially the 
Contemporary Christian genre) - G2 would be played as G-A-B-D (i.e. 
including the 3rd) - the sound you're talking about is most often seen 
as G2(no 3rd) in this arenaFWIW.

TC
On Apr 26, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:31 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
One of the reasons I like G2 for A-D-G (or any of the inversions 
thereof) is that it indicates an acoustic root for a stack of 4ths.
Hmm.  I see -- interesting.
So long as players know there's a fifth in "G2," I can see the 
usefulness of the symbol when it comes to notating alt bass chords 
concisely.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)

[Darcy James Argue]

On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:31 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
One of the reasons I like G2 for A-D-G (or any of the inversions 
thereof) is that it indicates an acoustic root for a stack of 4ths.
Hmm.  I see -- interesting.
So long as players know there's a fifth in "G2," I can see the 
usefulness of the symbol when it comes to notating alt bass chords 
concisely.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)

[Christopher Smith]

On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Well, I *did* suggest "G5 (add 2)" as an alternative to Gsus2, which I 
think is a little clearer than "G2 (add5)" because it's based on a 
standard chord symbol ("G5"), but the result is the same.

As for the chord's "real" name, I have to admit I really don't care 
about such issues.  IMO, the "real" name is the symbol that's actually 
on the part. If all the parts say "Gsus2" than that's the "real" name, 
regardless of what the player might or might not be thinking.  If you 
play in a scene where "G2 (add 5)" or whatever is used instead of 
"Gsus2", then *that* is the "real" name for the chord in that musical 
community.


One of the reasons I like G2 for A-D-G (or any of the inversions 
thereof) is that it indicates an acoustic root for a stack of 4ths. If 
I am trying to write a progression based on a three-note stack of 4ths, 
but with a foreign bass note, there is no easy way to notate it without 
a quick-to-read symbol like G2. Triads over foreign bass notes are easy 
to notate, like

A/D  Bb/A  A/D
instead of
Dmaj9(omit3)  A7(b13b9sus4)  Dmaj9(omit3)
but how compact would a comparable progression with 4th stacks be?
Eb2/Ab  Db2/Bb  C2
compared with
Ebsus2/Ab  Dbsus2/Bb  Csus2
which I suppose could be written functionally as
Ab6/9  Bbm11  Cadd9
for blowing purposes, but there is so much space saved with the first 
method, plus it's airier without the 3rds.

Christopher
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Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)

[Darcy James Argue]

On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:36 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Gsus2 was a full of surprised to me, so I called a couple studio 
musician
friends in NYC.  Darcy was of course right.  They are very familiar 
with
sus2 chord, but they also told me it's a CODE for convenience
Isn't that what I said?
Besides, all chord symbols are codes for convenience.  That's the whole 
point of using them.

 only common in NYC
Probably LA too.  Also very common in publishing, although Chris is 
right that it's sometimes mis-used.  (I might argue in response that 
there's a lot of sloppy pop publishing out there, and virtually all 
chord symbols are mis-used at one point or another.  But it is used 
correctly and consistently in publications where the editor wasn't 
MIA.)

and they also told me the chord's real name is G2(add5).  I was
glad to hear they don't insists on 'sus'!
Well, I *did* suggest "G5 (add 2)" as an alternative to Gsus2, which I 
think is a little clearer than "G2 (add5)" because it's based on a 
standard chord symbol ("G5"), but the result is the same.

As for the chord's "real" name, I have to admit I really don't care 
about such issues.  IMO, the "real" name is the symbol that's actually 
on the part. If all the parts say "Gsus2" than that's the "real" name, 
regardless of what the player might or might not be thinking.  If you 
play in a scene where "G2 (add 5)" or whatever is used instead of 
"Gsus2", then *that* is the "real" name for the chord in that musical 
community.

Disputes about whether, for example, C Eb Gb Bb is "really" "C minor 
seven flat five" or "C half diminished" are, IMO, pointless.  Since 
virtually everyone now understands both terms for the chord, I'm only 
interested in the most economical way of conveying to the player which 
notes are in the chord (i.e., "Cø").  You can tell me it isn't "really" 
half-diminished all day long, but it doesn't make the slightest 
difference to me so long as the player reads the symbol I wrote and 
plays the notes I want.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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[Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)

[A-NO-NE Music]

keith helgesen / 05.4.26 / 08:41 PM wrote:

>You tomAYto, I say tomARto!  Does it matter?

Unfortunately it does.
Jazz theory is still young, and we are responsible for its unifying
process.  Gary Burton did an amazing job contributing to this, but it is
still far from unified.

There is almost always the best analysis than others.  You must collect
all the possible explanations to help chose the best analysis.

If Chick Corea voices C - F - Bb - E, that is not C7sus(add3) to me. 
What would be the derived scale especially when you hear what context he
uses it.  It's Bb Lyd on C most of the times.  Of course this doesn't
imply when Chick is in his Spanish mode context, which is not what we
have been discussion on this thread.

Anyway, you can't have 11th in major chord family because it creates
minor ninth interval, which destroys the identity of the tonal harmony. 
A dominant chord, however, can have minor 9th interval because the tri-
tone will stand out above minor 9th interval dissonance.  Other minor 9th
interval along with the tri-tone even help tri-tone's 'wanting to
resolve' effect.  However, note that even tri-tone will be destroyed if
minor 9th interval is placed against it, namely 11th.

Gsus2 was a full of surprised to me, so I called a couple studio musician
friends in NYC.  Darcy was of course right.  They are very familiar with
sus2 chord, but they also told me it's a CODE for convenience only common
in NYC, and they also told me the chord's real name is G2(add5).  I was
glad to hear they don't insists on 'sus'!

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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