Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
Theoretically, this makes the measure a sixteenth too long, but it spaced perfectly for me on the same repeated pitch. Christopher set hidden tuplet last note 1 8th : 1 16th -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] bariolage beaming
I know this has been discussed in the past, but I forgot what the outcome was, and perhaps there are better ways in newer versions? What is the best way to get bariolage beaming? Ie, first note down, second note up, third note down, fourth note up, all ups beamed to gether, all downs beamed together. I know this is possible with some canny workarounds, but what is the best way to do it? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
I would suggest using separate layers for stems-up and stems-down, hiding the rests, then using Robert Patterson's Beam Selection plugin to create the beams. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 11 Mar 2007, at 10:44 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I know this has been discussed in the past, but I forgot what the outcome was, and perhaps there are better ways in newer versions? What is the best way to get bariolage beaming? Ie, first note down, second note up, third note down, fourth note up, all ups beamed to gether, all downs beamed together. I know this is possible with some canny workarounds, but what is the best way to do it? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Darcy James Argue wrote: I would suggest using separate layers for stems-up and stems-down, hiding the rests, then using Robert Patterson's Beam Selection plugin to create the beams. That, unfortunately, doesn't work, as it breaks the secondary beams on the rests as soon as I hide the rest, no matter what I do. That is precisely the dilemma. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
Hey Johannes, Sorry, I thought these were just eighths -- didn't realize there were secondary beams involved. I assume you can't just check Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests? (It affects the entire document, obviously.) Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 11 Mar 2007, at 11:43 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 11.03.2007 Darcy James Argue wrote: I would suggest using separate layers for stems-up and stems-down, hiding the rests, then using Robert Patterson's Beam Selection plugin to create the beams. That, unfortunately, doesn't work, as it breaks the secondary beams on the rests as soon as I hide the rest, no matter what I do. That is precisely the dilemma. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11 Mar 2007, at 12:26 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I assume you can't just check Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests? (It affects the entire document, obviously.) Oh, wait -- I see that doesn't even work. Hidden rests *always* break secondary beams. What a pain. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
At 04:43 PM 3/11/2007 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 11.03.2007 Darcy James Argue wrote: I would suggest using separate layers for stems-up and stems-down, hiding the rests, then using Robert Patterson's Beam Selection plugin to create the beams. That, unfortunately, doesn't work, as it breaks the secondary beams on the rests as soon as I hide the rest, no matter what I do. That is precisely the dilemma. You can do that, then use the extend secondary beam tool, choose the left handle, double click for the dialog box, check only the secondary beams (not the primary beam), and drag it to the right. If you dislike the tiny gap it leaves on the left side, grab the right handle and drag it to the left. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
It's tedious, but I've gotten good results by throwing hidden tuplets into the mix: no need for hidden rests then. (That is, 3 16ths in the time of 3 8ths, or whatever.) On 3/11/07, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Johannes, Sorry, I thought these were just eighths -- didn't realize there were secondary beams involved. I assume you can't just check Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests? (It affects the entire document, obviously.) Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 11 Mar 2007, at 11:43 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 11.03.2007 Darcy James Argue wrote: I would suggest using separate layers for stems-up and stems-down, hiding the rests, then using Robert Patterson's Beam Selection plugin to create the beams. That, unfortunately, doesn't work, as it breaks the secondary beams on the rests as soon as I hide the rest, no matter what I do. That is precisely the dilemma. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Darcy James Argue wrote: Oh, wait -- I see that doesn't even work. Hidden rests *always* break secondary beams. What a pain. Indeed. And for no reason I can find. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: You can do that, then use the extend secondary beam tool, choose the left handle, double click for the dialog box, check only the secondary beams (not the primary beam), and drag it to the right. If you dislike the tiny gap it leaves on the left side, grab the right handle and drag it to the left. You mean, I should do that for like 12 measures? Isn't there a better way to do this? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Darcy James Argue wrote: I assume you can't just check Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests? (It affects the entire document, obviously.) Try it, as soon as you hide the rests this setting does not have any effect any more. At least as far as I can work out. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Robert Patterson wrote: It's tedious, but I've gotten good results by throwing hidden tuplets into the mix: no need for hidden rests then. (That is, 3 16ths in the time of 3 8ths, or whatever.) I am not sure I get this. I am talking about four note patterns. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 3/11/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure I get this. I am talking about four note patterns. Here's how to do 4-patterns of 16ths and have them all metrically align correctly. (That is, 2 stems up and 2 stems down in each group.) All tuplets are hidden. L1: 2 16ths in the time of 2 8ths. L2: hidden 16th rest, 1 16th in the time of 1 8th, 1 16th, If you need other patterns, you can extend this approach. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On Mar 11, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I know this has been discussed in the past, but I forgot what the outcome was, and perhaps there are better ways in newer versions? What is the best way to get bariolage beaming? Ie, first note down, second note up, third note down, fourth note up, all ups beamed to gether, all downs beamed together. I know this is possible with some canny workarounds, but what is the best way to do it? Am I missing something? I had no trouble in FinMac entering eighth note, eighth rest for a bar of 4/4 in layer 1, then going back and beaming everything together (watch what you are on, because if you hit the / while on a NOTE, it BREAKS the beam and you can't create one at all for that note now! Make sure you are on the REST.) After that, THEN hide the rests. Repeat for layer 2, but start with a rest. It all works perfectly. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Christopher Smith wrote: Am I missing something? I had no trouble in FinMac entering eighth note, eighth rest for a bar of 4/4 in layer 1, then going back and beaming everything together (watch what you are on, because if you hit the / while on a NOTE, it BREAKS the beam and you can't create one at all for that note now! Make sure you are on the REST.) After that, THEN hide the rests. Repeat for layer 2, but start with a rest. It all works perfectly. Sorry, I should have mentioned I need bariolage in 16th. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On Mar 11, 2007, at 12:51 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Mar 11, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I know this has been discussed in the past, but I forgot what the outcome was, and perhaps there are better ways in newer versions? What is the best way to get bariolage beaming? Ie, first note down, second note up, third note down, fourth note up, all ups beamed to gether, all downs beamed together. I know this is possible with some canny workarounds, but what is the best way to do it? Am I missing something? I had no trouble in FinMac entering eighth note, eighth rest for a bar of 4/4 in layer 1, then going back and beaming everything together (watch what you are on, because if you hit the / while on a NOTE, it BREAKS the beam and you can't create one at all for that note now! Make sure you are on the REST.) After that, THEN hide the rests. Repeat for layer 2, but start with a rest. It all works perfectly. Sorry, I misunderstood. I just read the emails that came afterwards. The problem is the sixteenth beams getting broken. I got good results with a variation of Robert's approach in 2/4. I entered the starting sixteenths in Layer 1 as 4 sixteenths in the space of 1 half, tuplet indications hidden. I then entered in Layer 2 a sixteenth rest, which I hid, then 4 sixteenths as a tuplet in the space of 1 half again hidden. Theoretically, this makes the measure a sixteenth too long, but it spaced perfectly for me on the same repeated pitch. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
At 05:39 PM 3/11/2007 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 11.03.2007 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: You can do that, then use the extend secondary beam tool, choose the left handle, double click for the dialog box, check only the secondary beams (not the primary beam), and drag it to the right. If you dislike the tiny gap it leaves on the left side, grab the right handle and drag it to the left. You mean, I should do that for like 12 measures? Isn't there a better way to do this? I don't know. It's just a few clicks drags from my p.o.v., and you can drag-copy the measure first and change pitches later if that helps. Robert's tuplet suggestions always work very well in these kinds of situations, but since I compose into Finale, it's too easy for me to forget where these were done when I go back to change something. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: You mean, I should do that for like 12 measures? Isn't there a better way to do this? I don't know. It's just a few clicks drags from my p.o.v., and you can drag-copy the measure first and change pitches later if that helps. Actually, in this particular case, since I have already entered the music, it may well turn out to be easiest this way in combination with Robert's MassCopy plugin, which does copy these changes. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 3/11/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert's MassCopy plugin, For future reference, Mass Copy can also copy tuplets, so once you've entered the tedious tuplet pattern once, it is easy to replicate. It has occurred to me that it would be quite feasible to create a Bariolage Beam plugin that works similarly to the TGTools Tremolo tool. That is, enter normal 16ths (or whatever) and the plugin would convert it to L1/L2 bariolage with all the hidden tuplets automatically created. Maybe one of us will do that some day. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] bariolage beaming
Is this the kind of beaming you're after?: http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/owainsutton/bariolage.jpg I just put in groups of seven semiquavers, and used the custom stem tool to create blank stems for the skipped ones. The hidden rests are at the ends of the groups, so there's no problems with breaking beams. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johannes Gebauer Sent: 11 March 2007 16:39 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming On 11.03.2007 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: You can do that, then use the extend secondary beam tool, choose the left handle, double click for the dialog box, check only the secondary beams (not the primary beam), and drag it to the right. If you dislike the tiny gap it leaves on the left side, grab the right handle and drag it to the left. You mean, I should do that for like 12 measures? Isn't there a better way to do this? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
Cool solution, Owain. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 11 Mar 2007, at 1:39 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: Is this the kind of beaming you're after?: http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/owainsutton/bariolage.jpg I just put in groups of seven semiquavers, and used the custom stem tool to create blank stems for the skipped ones. The hidden rests are at the ends of the groups, so there's no problems with breaking beams. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
On 11.03.2007 Owain Sutton wrote: Is this the kind of beaming you're after?: http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/owainsutton/bariolage.jpg I just put in groups of seven semiquavers, and used the custom stem tool to create blank stems for the skipped ones. The hidden rests are at the ends of the groups, so there's no problems with breaking beams. I had actually done this before, but in this particular case it doesn't work. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] bariolage beaming
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johannes Gebauer Sent: 11 March 2007 18:41 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming On 11.03.2007 Owain Sutton wrote: Is this the kind of beaming you're after?: http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/owainsutton/bariolage.jpg I just put in groups of seven semiquavers, and used the custom stem tool to create blank stems for the skipped ones. The hidden rests are at the ends of the groups, so there's no problems with breaking beams. I had actually done this before, but in this particular case it doesn't work. Johannes What goes wrong with this method? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] bariolage beaming
There is another way, but tedious (tho it did not take me much time), of getting bariolage beaming: using several Special tools, that might be useful in certain situations (don't know which, indeed): - First, input the notes as there were no bariolage involved (just the 16th notes) - Apply Couble/Split Stem Tool to change stem direction of desired notes. - Hide undesired stems (with Beam Stem Adjust Tool or with a blank stem with the Custom Stem Tool) - Reduce long bems with Beam Extension Tool as necessary. Yes, it's too much work, but you get what you want. I think this can be copied with Mass Edit or Robert Patterson's Mass Copy. You can check the result at http://www.geocities.com/rjunchaya/pub/Bariolage.jpg Hope it works for you Rafael Junchaya ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
