Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
At 10:57 PM -0800 1/12/10, Mark D Lew wrote: On Jan 12, 2010, at 6:52 PM, John Howell wrote: You can ask the publisher, but you KNOW what they'll say!!! The publisher is Kalmus with no copyright notice, so you know what THAT means! Are we still on the Peter the Wolf thread? (Sorry; I've lost track.) If so, then in the normal course of events that would indicate PD. In fact under the 1909 law, publication without copyright notice automatically put any work in the PD. But I suspect that whatever law or treaty it was that restored those copyrights took that into consideration, and of course once a piece is printed, that copy will never reflect later changes in copyright status. Which is why it's often difficult to figure out whether an original copyright has been renewed. No date either, but based on the vendor name stamped inside I know I bought it no later than 1984. Probably late 1970s. Yes, and I think that would be before the restoration of copyrights to Soviet works. I haven't had time to check what the current law might have to say about it. Anyone? John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
On Jan 13, 2010, at 10:59 AM, John Howell wrote: Are we still on the Peter the Wolf thread? No, I'm talking about my Shostakovich preludes. I'm pretty sure I know what happened. In the 1970s, they were unprotected, so Kalmus printed them up (but didn't claim it as its own). Now, I assume it's protected again. Why wouldn't it be? mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
On Jan 11, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I'm not sure there is standard practice. The two std. rep. pieces for orchestra with narration that come to mind are Peter and the Wolf and Mendelssohn's MIdsummer Night's Dream. The Prokofiev includes the entire narration in the score, as I believe also does the Mendelssohn. (The parts for both only have excerpts of the narration as needed.) If it were me, I would include the entire narration in the score in the pauses where they are to be delivered. At the very least I would look at both those scores before making a final decision. Fortunately, both are available from Dover and hence in the public domain. What's the story on Russian copyrights? I remember that a lot of 20th century Russian works were in the public domain long before they otherwise would have been, on account of the fact that the United States did not recognize Soviet copyrights. I also remember that some time in the mid-1990s, after the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, the United States began to recognize Russian copyrights again, as a result of some trade agreement, and a whole lot of Russian works that had been available were pulled from the shelves and went out of print. So what does that mean for something like Peter and the Wolf? Is it truly in the public domain? Or is it just easily available but technically under protection now? As an American, I'm mostly interested in U.S. law but presumably the same questions apply to Europe and elsewhere. Peter and the Wolf was published in 1936 and Prokofiev died in 1953, so it seems to me that the work ought to be protected under either the American or European rules. (But I hope I'm wrong, because there's a certain Shostakovich prelude I'd love to arrange) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
As far as I know, Peter and the Wolf is back under protection. Evidence of that is that Dover made some of their Prokofiev orchestral scores unavailable (glad I already had a copy). You can check the ASCAP website for a list of restored works. It's up to you to figure out whether the work has lived out its natural life. I hear pdinfo.com or .org is a good resource, but I haven't checked it out myself, though I've heard that ASCAP and BMI both consult it. On Jan 12, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Mark D Lew markd...@earthlink.net wrote: On Jan 11, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I'm not sure there is standard practice. The two std. rep. pieces for orchestra with narration that come to mind are Peter and the Wolf and Mendelssohn's MIdsummer Night's Dream. The Prokofiev includes the entire narration in the score, as I believe also does the Mendelssohn. (The parts for both only have excerpts of the narration as needed.) If it were me, I would include the entire narration in the score in the pauses where they are to be delivered. At the very least I would look at both those scores before making a final decision. Fortunately, both are available from Dover and hence in the public domain. What's the story on Russian copyrights? I remember that a lot of 20th century Russian works were in the public domain long before they otherwise would have been, on account of the fact that the United States did not recognize Soviet copyrights. I also remember that some time in the mid-1990s, after the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, the United States began to recognize Russian copyrights again, as a result of some trade agreement, and a whole lot of Russian works that had been available were pulled from the shelves and went out of print. So what does that mean for something like Peter and the Wolf? Is it truly in the public domain? Or is it just easily available but technically under protection now? As an American, I'm mostly interested in U.S. law but presumably the same questions apply to Europe and elsewhere. Peter and the Wolf was published in 1936 and Prokofiev died in 1953, so it seems to me that the work ought to be protected under either the American or European rules. (But I hope I'm wrong, because there's a certain Shostakovich prelude I'd love to arrange) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
At 6:02 PM -0800 1/12/10, Mark D Lew wrote: What's the story on Russian copyrights? I remember that a lot of 20th century Russian works were in the public domain long before they otherwise would have been, on account of the fact that the United States did not recognize Soviet copyrights. I believe it was the Soviet Union that did not recognize copyrights--ANY copyrights. Everything in theory belonged to The People. I also remember that some time in the mid-1990s, after the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, the United States began to recognize Russian copyrights again, as a result of some trade agreement, and a whole lot of Russian works that had been available were pulled from the shelves and went out of print. They just went back into copyright, as I recall. But that affected the price, which affected the availability. I remember at the time that it was made clear that any copies that had been sold while they were public domain remained legal, but that any newly-sold copies (or rentals, I assume) were now protected by copyright as of when they COULD have been copyrighted. It wasn't that they went out of print, the prices just went up. But I also remember that the re-copyrighting was NOT automatic, and it had to be specifically requested for each work involved. So what does that mean for something like Peter and the Wolf? Is it truly in the public domain? Or is it just easily available but technically under protection now? I would assume that it is now under copyright protection under U.S. law, based on the dates you gave. Nothing technical about it. I note that Peter is not listed in either the Luck's or Kalmus catalogs, which suggests that it may now be available only from the publisher. The previous poster--I've lost track of who it was--assumed that it was PD, but that's not necessarily true. We performed it last November and I know we didn't rent it, but our conductor may have had it in his library from when it was PD. As an American, I'm mostly interested in U.S. law but presumably the same questions apply to Europe and elsewhere. Yes, but under the applicable copyright law of each country. A 1936 copyright would still be under copyright in the U.S. under the 1909 law, a 1953 death would affect European and other copyright laws that at the time were based on death plus 50 years or death plus 70 years, depending on what the current laws read. Peter and the Wolf was published in 1936 and Prokofiev died in 1953, so it seems to me that the work ought to be protected under either the American or European rules. Depends on how the EU rules now read. 1953 plus 50 years would be a 2003 expiration. But if it's figured as plus 70 years it would be 2023. What I don't know is whether any of those works got credit added for the years in which they were public domain. (But I hope I'm wrong, because there's a certain Shostakovich prelude I'd love to arrange) You can ask the publisher, but you KNOW what they'll say!!! John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
On Jan 12, 2010, at 6:52 PM, John Howell wrote: You can ask the publisher, but you KNOW what they'll say!!! The publisher is Kalmus with no copyright notice, so you know what THAT means! No date either, but based on the vendor name stamped inside I know I bought it no later than 1984. Probably late 1970s. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
