Re: [Finale] Questions about microtonal accidentals
Jari, I too use the up and down arrows. Thank you for the great work you are doing out there. Giovanni Andreani On 29 Dec 2011, at 01:34, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi Jari, * Does anyone use the accidentals with arrows up/down? Yes, and that's always been my preferred style of quarter-tone notation. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 28 Dec 2011, at 3:49 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote: Hello! In the plug-in JW Change plug-in (which I currently work on), it will be possible to change the accidental appearances pretty easily (without changing the basic key of the piece, which is my preferred way of working with quarter tones in Finale). I have some questions regarding microtonal accidentals in Finale: * In the Maestro Percussion font, I find quarter tone flat at #66, quarter tone sharp at #181, 0.75 tone sharp at #247 - but where's the 0.75 tone flat using the same system (=the composite symbol with one reversed flat and one ordinary flat)? Same question for EngraverFontExtras, JazzPerc and Broadway Copyist Perc. * Does anyone use the accidentals with arrows up/down? * The sharp/flat with 4 (#36 and #245 in Maestro) - anyone using that? * What's #73 and #105 in Maestro Percussion? * Do any of the Finale fonts contain the Turkish microtonal accidental symbols, in the Arel Ezgi system (1/4/5/8/9 commas)? If not, which fonts do? Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Upgrade from Fin08 to Fin12
On 12/28/2011 11:15 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: Thanks Aaron. In my (limited) experience, the magnifiers affect only the cell size, not the % size of the content. (Boo.) Well, if the content had been downsized to fit in the cell, the magnifier will expand the content by making the cell bigger. It is true that there is no way to make the content larger than actual size. I see the description text now that you've told me where to look, but it is of limited value since it does not display in the grid. Yes, I agree. Personally, I find categories very useful, but the UI of that dialog was not well thought out. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Upgrade from Fin08 to Fin12
What's needed is a proper grid with options for what to show and sorting with clickable headers. But one might as well wish for a flying car. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Aaron Sherber aa...@sherber.com wrote: On 12/29/2011 10:22 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote: I would NOT want all the description texts clutter the grid view. But it would be nice as an option, for those who prefer the old single-column view with descriptions. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Test - please ignore
Test -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Questions about microtonal accidentals
In the plug-in JW Change plug-in (which I currently work on), it will be possible to change the accidental appearances pretty easily (without changing the basic key of the piece, which is my preferred way of working with quarter tones in Finale). can you explain this a little more? i use a system - setting default characters in accis prefs - without fudging or changing default appearance that requires checking only a few pitches in transposed instrument parts. all traditional symbols with parentheses are used to indicate quarter tones: (b) = 1/4b (bb) = 3/4b (#) = 1/4# (x) = 3/4# so accis in parentheses are not able to be used with default settings, but these are so generally not needed in contexts with 1/4-tones that it is not really a loss. * In the Maestro Percussion font, I find quarter tone flat at #66, quarter tone sharp at #181, 0.75 tone sharp at #247 - but where's the 0.75 tone flat using the same system (=the composite symbol with one reversed flat and one ordinary flat)? before creating my own fonts, i recall using another font for this, but can't figure out which it was (tamburo, acoustica, concreta etc. don't have them) * Does anyone use the accidentals with arrows up/down? **never** for anything standard like 1/4 and 3/4 tones arrows can be used on all accis in 1/4-tone tempered to indicate eighth tones, or inflections from the tempered scale. of course this needs to be indicated in the legend. * The sharp/flat with 4 (#36 and #245 in Maestro) - anyone using that? jeezuzz no! * What's #73 and #105 in Maestro Percussion? alternate 1/4 and 3/4 flat notation, i have only come across it regularly in the fonts included with finale (like the bartók pizz with stem down) the most generally recognized and clear system is using the characters you mentioned. the arrows are always a problem because so many people have used them in so many different ways for so many things, and should **especially** not be used for 1/4 and 3/4 tone notation. 20th-century microtonal notation (gardner read) lists hundreds of pieces and shows how they are notated, by the way, if you haven't had a chance to look through it i strongly suggest it. the book is quite useful in showing the massive disregard for existing notation standards. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Questions about microtonal accidentals
jari, just noticed hindson's accidentals font has the 3/4b character you are looking for http://www.hindson.com.au/wordpress/free/free-fonts-available-for-download ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Questions about microtonal accidentals
On 2011-12-29 11:07, SN jef chippewa wrote: can you explain this a little more? i use a system - setting default characters in accis prefs - without fudging or changing default appearance that requires checking only a few pitches in transposed instrument parts. all traditional symbols with parentheses are used to indicate quarter tones: (b) = 1/4b (bb) = 3/4b (#) = 1/4# (x) = 3/4# so accis in parentheses are not able to be used with default settings, but these are so generally not needed in contexts with 1/4-tones that it is not really a loss. The plug-in will basically do what you do in the Document Options as local edits. If you look at this preview movie that I posted a couple of days ago, you can see how the beam separations and beam thickness are edited locally by the plug-in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_2k0Nh4rE Accidental editing uses the same approach. the most generally recognized and clear system is using the characters you mentioned. the arrows are always a problem because so many people have used them in so many different ways for so many things, and should **especially** not be used for 1/4 and 3/4 tone notation. 20th-century microtonal notation (gardner read) lists hundreds of pieces and shows how they are notated, by the way, if you haven't had a chance to look through it i strongly suggest it. the book is quite useful in showing the massive disregard for existing notation standards. I have the microtonal book by Read that you refer to, and it clearly shows the historical mess regarding microtonal accidentals. Thanks alot for your insights on this topic! Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Upgrade from Fin08 to Fin12
On 12/29/2011 10:22 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote: I would NOT want all the description texts clutter the grid view. But it would be nice as an option, for those who prefer the old single-column view with descriptions. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Upgrade from Fin08 to Fin12
On 2011-12-29 16:12, Aaron Sherber wrote: On 12/28/2011 11:15 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I see the description text now that you've told me where to look, but it is of limited value since it does not display in the grid. Yes, I agree. I would NOT want all the description texts clutter the grid view. But mouse-over hint support would be nice. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se wrote: On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
Hi Ryan, You want to make the minimum width larger, not smaller. Try making the minimum width 150 points or similar. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se wrote: On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
That didn't work, Darcy. It created the opposite of what I want. Did you perhaps mean to tell me to change the *maximum* width? That's already set at 75 spaces. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi Ryan, You want to make the minimum width larger, not smaller. Try making the minimum width 150 points or similar. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se wrote: On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
Hi Ryan, Your maximum width is set artificially low (which you did not mention). You should make it as big as Finale will allow. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. It does if your minimum width is smaller than your maximum width. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. Minimum measure width is in fact the variable that governs what you want. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 5:38 PM, Ryan wrote: That didn't work, Darcy. It created the opposite of what I want. Did you perhaps mean to tell me to change the *maximum* width? That's already set at 75 spaces. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi Ryan, You want to make the minimum width larger, not smaller. Try making the minimum width 150 points or similar. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se wrote: On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
Thanks for your advice, but I'm still getting whole rest measures that are wider than measures with music in them. Minimum Measure Width: 0 spaces Maximum Measure Width: 1365.29167 spaces (I entered 10,000 and Finale lowered it to that value). Try this in a default document: Meter 2/4. No key signature. First measure, half note A-nat, Second measure, whole rest, Third and Fourth measures, eighth rest, Ab eighth note, quarter rest. (Pick an Ab lower in the staff so that the stem goes up and Finale adds space for the flag.) Apply note spacing. In my document the space of the half note measure is 7.04167 spaces, the empty measures is 10.5 spaces, and third and fourth measures are is 10.29 spaces. Where does Finale get the the width of 10.5 spaces for the empty measure? I'd like it to be skinnier so that it more closely matches the 7-spaces-wide measure with the lone half note in it. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi Ryan, Your maximum width is set artificially low (which you did not mention). You should make it as big as Finale will allow. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. It does if your minimum width is smaller than your maximum width. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. Minimum measure width is in fact the variable that governs what you want. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 5:38 PM, Ryan wrote: That didn't work, Darcy. It created the opposite of what I want. Did you perhaps mean to tell me to change the *maximum* width? That's already set at 75 spaces. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi Ryan, You want to make the minimum width larger, not smaller. Try making the minimum width 150 points or similar. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se wrote: On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
Hi Ryan, One more time: set your *MINIMUM* measure width to 150 points or higher. (Not zero.) Leave your maximum measure width maxed. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 6:09 PM, Ryan wrote: Thanks for your advice, but I'm still getting whole rest measures that are wider than measures with music in them. Minimum Measure Width: 0 spaces Maximum Measure Width: 1365.29167 spaces (I entered 10,000 and Finale lowered it to that value). Try this in a default document: Meter 2/4. No key signature. First measure, half note A-nat, Second measure, whole rest, Third and Fourth measures, eighth rest, Ab eighth note, quarter rest. (Pick an Ab lower in the staff so that the stem goes up and Finale adds space for the flag.) Apply note spacing. In my document the space of the half note measure is 7.04167 spaces, the empty measures is 10.5 spaces, and third and fourth measures are is 10.29 spaces. Where does Finale get the the width of 10.5 spaces for the empty measure? I'd like it to be skinnier so that it more closely matches the 7-spaces-wide measure with the lone half note in it. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi Ryan, Your maximum width is set artificially low (which you did not mention). You should make it as big as Finale will allow. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. It does if your minimum width is smaller than your maximum width. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. Minimum measure width is in fact the variable that governs what you want. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 5:38 PM, Ryan wrote: That didn't work, Darcy. It created the opposite of what I want. Did you perhaps mean to tell me to change the *maximum* width? That's already set at 75 spaces. This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure width for a single measure of rest. That value has to be somewhere, right? You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi Ryan, You want to make the minimum width larger, not smaller. Try making the minimum width 150 points or similar. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se wrote: On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. Change the minimum width and respace. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
