Dear Soren, I agree with your reading of Pedro’s proposal as to start with
cellular meaning, and then go thru the higher levels of evolution. It has the
advantage of beginning with the simplest case and then look at more complex
ones. See (1) for a corresponding approach.But I’m afraid I disagree with your
point regarding first person consciousness as not representing anything real,
as just being a bio-cultural artefact as you say. I take human consciousness as
being a reality resulting from an evolution of representations. But this is not
our today subject. Coming back to it, Walter Riofrio, (New FIS member) has an
interesting approach to the notion of meaning where he groups together the
emergence of autonomy, function and meaning (2). I understand his work as
associating inside a system a meaningful information with a function that needs
it in order to use it, in a background of autonomy. Such evolutionary link
between meaningful information and function looks as an interesting tool.
All the best Christophe(1) - Short paper:
http://crmenant.free.fr/ResUK/index.HTM - Full paper:
http://www.mdpi.org/entropy/papers/e5020193.pdf(2)
http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00114521/en/ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007
22:13:27 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: SV: [Fis] info meaning To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; fis@listas.unizar.es Dear Pedro Do I understand you
right when I see your models as: 1. There is no meaning in inanimate
nature. 2. Meaning is constructed on a first level by life in the form of
single cell life forms. 3. Second level is (chemical) communication between
cells. 4. Third level is multicellular organisms as species with a gene pool.
5. Fifth level is their communication. 6. Sixth level human construction of
meaning in 'life worlds'. But there is no object of meaning in itself.
Energy and mathematical information are the basic reality. First person
meaningful consciousness is a bio-cultural artifact useful for the
construction of life and culture, but it is not an image of anything real.
Best wishes Søren -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL
PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Pedro Marijuan Sendt: 4.
oktober 2007 14:23 Til: fis@listas.unizar.es Emne: Re: [Fis] info meaning
Dear colleagues, What if meaning is equivalent to zero? I mean, if we
backtrack to the origins of zero, we find those obscure philosophers related
to Buddhism in India, many centuries ago (Brahmagupta, 600 ad). It was
something difficult to grasp, rather bizarre, the fruit of quite a long and
winding thought, and frankly not of much practicity. Then after not many
developments during a few centuries, another scholar in central Asia
(al-Kwarismi) took the idea and was able to algorithmize the basic arithmetic
operations. Mathematics could fly... and nowadays any school children learns
and uses arithmetics algebra so easily. The idea is that if we strictly
identify (we zero on) meaning as a biological construct, work it rigorously
for the living cell as a tough problem of systems biology (and not as a
flamboyant autopoiectic or autogenic or selftranscence doctrines of
Brahmaguptian style), then we work for a parallel enactive action/perception
approach in neuroscience, and besides pen a rigorous view in social-economic
setting under similar guidelines --and also find the commonalities with
quantum computing and information physics... finally information science will
fly. Otherwise, if we remain working towards the other direction, the
undergrounds of zero downwards, we will get confined into bizarre, voluminous,
useless discussions doctrines on information. Cellular meaning is our zero
concept: we should go for it. best Pedro
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