Jorge -- Then, it is hard to get away from the model where, in 'downward
causation', large scale signals impact simultaneously many small scale
processes, while in upward causation, small scale signals need to accumulate
into some kind of ensemble message. But Conrad 'fluctuons' seem to be
trying to get beyond this 'standard physical model'. In a paper :
Salthe, S.N., 2005,b. Asymmetry and self-organization. Symmetry, Culture
and Science 16: 71-90.
I suggested that a single small scale fluctuation near thermodynamic
equilibrium might have an upscale effect if a larger scale configuration was
in place (perhaps by way of a larger scale fluctuation) that was able to be
impacted by that fluctuation in such a way as to alter its configuration in
a way that would be preserved long enough for it to be detected by a still
larger scale configuration, thus letting one signal go from micro through
meso to macro. But, for this to be other than a passing event, this would
require some kind of system for which such information might be adaptive,
and so it would be specially organized in such a way as to play this game
rather than being limited to the well-known physical model of ensemble
detection of lower scale events. Or it would just be a passing accidental
synchronization of fluctuations at different scales.
STAN
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Jorge Navarro López <
jnavarro.i...@aragon.es> wrote:
> Dear Stan & Joseph,
>
> Many thanks for your responses and for your interest in my naive comments.
> My interpretation of M. Conrad views in that wonderful abstract is that most
> molecular recognition events are per se isolated or followed by some very
> specific pathway. Then in many cases an accessory tool is needed to
> integrate their specific molecular work into the general cellular processes.
> In that sense, second messengers are reading and measuring the outcome of
> quite many microscopy happenstances and driving to a mesoscopic, highly
> amplified value of their own concentrations (e.g., calcium ions, AMP-cyclic,
> glycerol... ). This mesoscopic value is broadcast then through Brownian
> motion to a variety of targets, putting into action other microscopic and
> mesoscopic processes, etc.
> In summary, my view is that second messengers represent the transition
> from many micro- to a meso- and then to many other micro- and so on, in this
> way driving the general percolation of information flows (Pedro has also
> written about the measurement roles of second messenger within signaling
> systems of eukaryotes): I am more interested in the prokaryotes and I am
> currently working in the signalome of *M. tuberculosis* (any help will be
> welcome!! it is awfully complex).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jorge
>
>
> --
>
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