Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-11 Thread PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
Dear colleagues,

Yes, the foundations are trembling... as usual during quite long a time. Maybe 
too many aspects have to be put into line in order to have new, more consistent 
foundations for human knowledge. Until now the different crisis of Mechanics, 
the dominant scientific culture, have been solved at the small price of 
leaving conceptual inconsistencies until the rug of brand new fields or 
subdisciplines while at the same time fictive claims of unity of sceince, 
reductionism, etc. were upheld. Good for mechanics, as probably there were few 
competing options around --if any. Bad for the whole human knowledge, as 
multidisciplinary schizophrenia has been assumed as the natural state of 
mental health.

My opinion is that information science should carefully examine the problematic 
claims at the core of mechanical ways of explanation, as some (many?) of them 
refer to the information stuff: unlimited communication (even between physical 
elements), arbitrary partitions and boundary conditions, ideal status of the 
acting laws of nature, ominiscient observer, idealized nature of human 
knowledge  (no neurodynamics of knowledge), disciplinary hierarchies versus 
heterarchical interrelationships, logical versus social construction and 
knowledge recombination, idealized social information, etc.etc. Probably I have 
misconceived and wrongly expressed some of those problems, but in any case it 
is unfortunate that there is a dense feedback among them and a strong 
entrenchment with many others, so the revision task becomes Herculean even if 
partially addressed.

The big problem some of us see, and I tried to argument about that in the last 
Beijing FIS meeting, is that without an entrance of some partial aspect in the 
professional science system, none of the those challenges has the slightest 
possibility of being developed in the amateur mode/marginal science our studies 
are caught into. Therefore a common challenge for FIS, the new ISIS society, 
ITHEA, Symmetrion, INBIOSA, etc. is to take some piece or problem, with 
practical implications, and enter it into the institutional system, it does not 
matter where and by whom, and little by little expand the initial stronghold 
with the collective support of all of us. There is a terrific collection of 
individualities and scholars in the FIS enterprise and the germane entities, so 
that any small oficializing attempt should prosper quite soon.

Let us think about that... there is hope for non-trembling foundations! 
Provided we are institutionally clever.

best wishes

---Pedro

PS. by the way, I would like to hear in this list from our flamboyant Beijing 
FIS Group, as without discussion they and the colleagues at Wuhan are the best 
situated to try to respond institutionally to the above challenge. My special 
greetings to all the Chinese FIS friends!




- Mensaje original -
De: Koichiro Matsuno cxq02...@nifty.com
Fecha: Sábado, 3 de Noviembre de 2012, 6:11 am
Asunto: Re: [Fis] The Information Flow
A: fis@listas.unizar.es

 Folks,
 
    Bob U said The foundations, they are trembling! I 
 have taken it to imply that propositional
 calculus itself is also in a bad shape. This observation reminds 
 me of the hanging paradox first
 invented by an American logician Arthur Prior more than 60 years 
 ago. It goes like this:
 
    On a certain Saturday a judge sentenced a man to 
 be hanged on Sunday or Monday at noon,
 stipulating at the same time that the man would not know the day 
 of his hanging until the morning of
 the day itself. The condemned man argued that if he were hanged 
 on Monday, he would be aware of the
 fact by noon on Sunday, and this would contravene the judge's 
 stipulation. So the date of his
 hanging would have to be Sunday. Since, however, he had worked 
 this out on Saturday, and so knew the
 date of his hanging the day before, the judge's stipulation was 
 again contravened. The date,
 therefore, could not be Sunday either. The prisoner concluded 
 that he would not be hanged at all.
 However, the official gazette issued on Tuesday reported that 
 the man was hanged on last Sunday. 
 
    The logician-prisoner (the externalist) was right 
 in his deduction upon the trusted propositional
 calculus, while the judge (the internalist) was also right in 
 faithfully executing the sentence. But
 both cannot be right at the same time. Despite that, the 
 internalist could finally come to preside
 over this empirical world. I had a hard time to convince myself 
 of it. Strange?
 
    Cheers,
    Koichiro Matsuno
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Fis] The Information Flow - Transcending the Turing Limit

2012-11-11 Thread Bill Seaman
From Bruno:

 But the word mechanism cannot have the same sense before and  
 after the discovery of the universal machine and its limitation. As my  
 work illustrates in detail, universal machine have already two  
 internal aspects which conflict with each other, and are close to the  
 analytical/intuitive distinction.

This suggests the need to transcend the Universal machine as articulated by 
Turing. 
It suggests the need for us to articulate a ultracomplex mechanism that is of a 
different variety.

Otto Rossler in conversation with Seaman suggests the employment of transfinite 
numbers ---
Cantor and transfinite accuracy

This paper may be of interest:

The motives behind Cantor's Set Theory - Physical, biological, and 
philosophical questions.
http://personal.us.es/josef/Cantor.pdf

Analogue mechanisms (or their highly parsed emulation in binary machines) might 
be one approach. 
See also:

Neural Networks and Analog Computation: Beyond the Turing Limit
Author: Hava T. Siegelmann
The theoretical foundations of Neural Networks and Analog Computation 
conceptualize neural networks as a particular type of computer consisting of 
multiple assemblies of basic processors interconnected in an intricate 
structure.

Examining these networks under various resource constraints reveals a continuum 
of computational devices, several of which coincide with well-known classical 
models. What emerges is a Church-Turing-like thesis, applied to the field of 
analog computation, which features the neural network model in place of the 
digital Turing machine. This new concept can serve as a point of departure for 
the development of alternative, supra-Turing computational theories. On a 
mathematical level, the treatment of neural computations enriches the theory of 
computation but also explicates the computational complexity associated with 
biological networks, adaptive engineering tools, and related models from the 
fields of control theory and nonlinear dynamics.[i]

Segelmann states: “The surprising finding has been that when analog networks 
assume real weights, their power encompasses and transcends that of digital 
computers.”[ii] She goes on to say “our model captures nature's manifest 
“computation” of the future physical world from the present, in which constants 
that are not known to us, or cannot even be measured, do affect the evolution 
of the system.”[iii]

[i] Siegelmann, H. (2007), Neural Networks and Analog Computation: Beyond the 
Turing Limit, http://www.cs.umass.edu/~hava/advertisement.html, Accessed 1 
December 2009. See also Siegelmann, H (1999), Neural Networks and Analogue 
Computation, Beyond the Turing Limit, Boston, MA: Birkhäuser.

[ii] Ibid.

[iii] Ibid.



Best

Bill Seaman___
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