Re: [Fis] Simple amswer: NOT!

[Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov]

Dea FISes,

with respect to this big data and machine learning cults today, which I
consider as somewhat useful fragments of a much bigger paradigm but not the
non-plus-ultra tendency in science, let me ask you a bit different question:

What do you think about the other more interesting phenomenon recently: the
blockchain technology and the chances for a forum like FIS to use it for
perpetuating knowledge to change the paradigm of conventional thinking
towards a global intellectual standard currency? Perhaps this is what
deserves your attention.

All the best.

Plamen




On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 9:09 PM, Krassimir Markov  wrote:

> Dear Alberto,
>
> Let imagine that we are at the naturist beach, i.e. naked.
> OK!
> You will see all what I am and I will se the same for you.
>
> Well, will you know what I think or shall I know the same for you?
>
> Simple answer: NOT!
>
> No Data base may contain any data about my current thoughts and feelings.
> Yes, the stupid part of humanity may be controlled by big data centers.
> But all times it had been controlled. Nothing new.
>
> The pseudo scientists may analyze data and may create tons of papers.
> For such “production” there was and will exist corresponded more and more
> big cemeteries.
> I had edited more than one thousand papers.
> Only several was really very important and with great scientific value !!!
>
> Collection of data is important problem and it will be such for ever.
> But the greater problem for humanity is collection of money [image: Smile]
>
> And the last cause the former!
> And the last is many times more dangerous than former!
>
> Do not worry of Data-ism!
> Be worried of the Money-ism!
>
> I will continue next week because this is my second post  ( Thanks to
> wisdom of Pedro who had limited Writing-letter-ism in our list! ).
>
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Alberto J. Schuhmacher 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2018 10:23 PM
> *To:* fis 
> *Subject:* [Fis] Is Dataism the end of classical hypothesis-driven
> research and the beginning of data-correlation-driven research?
>
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> I very much appreciate this opportunity to discuss with all of you.
>
> My mentors and science teachers taught me that Science had a method, rules
> and procedures that should be followed and pursued rigorously and with
> perseverance. The scientific research needed to be preceded by one or
> several hypotheses that should be subjected to validation or refutation
> through experiments designed and carried out in a laboratory. The Oxford
> Dictionaries Online defines the scientific method as "a method or procedure
> that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting
> in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the
> formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses". Experiments are a
> procedure designed to test hypotheses. Experiments are an important tool of
> the scientific method.
>
> In our case, molecular, personalized and precision medicine aims to
> anticipate the future development of diseases in a specific individual
> through molecular markers registered in the genome, variome, metagenome,
> metabolome or in any of the multiple "omes" that make up the present
> "omics" language of current Biology.
>
> The possibilities of applying these methodologies to the prevention and
> treatment of diseases have increased exponentially with the rise of a new
> religion, *Dataism*, whose foundations are inspired by scientific
> agnosticism, a way of thinking that seems classical but applied to
> research, it hides a profound revolution.
>
> Dataism arises from the recent human desire to collect and analyze data,
> data and more data, data of everything and data for everything-from the
> most banal social issues to those that decide the rhythms of life and
> death. “Information flow” is one the “supreme values” of this religion. The
> next floods will be of data as we can see just looking at any electronic
> window.
>
> The recent development of gigantic clinical and biological databases, and
> the concomitant progress of the computational capacity to handle and
> analyze these growing tides of information represent the best substrate for
> the progress of Dataism, which in turn has managed to provide a solid
> content material to an always-evanescent scientific agnosticism.
>
> On many occasions the establishment of correlative observations seems to
> be sufficient to infer about the relevance of a certain factor in the
> development of some human pathologies. It seems that we are heading towards
> a path in which research, instead of being driven by hypotheses confirmed
> experimentally, in the near future experimental hypotheses themselves will
> arise from the observation of data of previously performed experiments. Are
> we facing the end of the wet lab? Is 

Re: [Fis] Simple amswer: NOT!

[Mark Johnson]

You'll be amused by this on Pavlov and Kornosky by Heinz Von Foerster...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BomO7pbSVNA

The message is that one must be careful where one draws one's distinctions 

What you call data-ism is a bit like the bell without the clapper ;-)

-Original Message-
From: "Karl Javorszky" 
Sent: ‎07/‎03/‎2018 21:00
To: "Krassimir Markov" 
Cc: "fis" ; "Alberto J. Schuhmacher" 

Subject: Re: [Fis] Simple amswer: NOT!

Dear Krassimir, 




Formalism is nice, but it can be unreasonable. 


Your example of 2 naked men on a beach can be made simpler by adding a dog, a 
sausage and a whistle. 


Person A (the dog's owner) sounds the whistle. The dog is apparently used to 
being fed and runs up, waging its tail.


Can 
1) person A think:
a) the dog thinks it will be fed, 
b) this other naked guy thinks I am introducing Pawlow to formal logic; 


2) person B think: 
a) the measure of intelligence is based on the number of repetitions of a 
stimulus until the conditioned reflex is established,
b) this other naked guy apparently teaching his dog to learn to listen to the 
whistle;


3) the dog think
a) food coming,
b) the connection between whistle and sausage is a secret that I have mastered, 
no other dog will ever figure out the mystery,
c) we dogs live in a world in which past and future exist; these are connected 
by the moment, which is the natural home  (in fact, so far, the only home) of 
formal logic;
d) poor humans have no fur and can not therefore think.


Do you think you can't navigate a crossing because you are not able to figure 
out what the drivers in the cars coming will think? Because they are not naked? 


It is time to start talking about what Pawlow said.  Maybe, after that we can 
start discussing what Gregor Mendel said. After that, one will cry Caramba!


Time slips by while we waste time. 


Karl 


Am 07.03.2018 21:10 schrieb "Krassimir Markov" :

Dear Alberto,
 
Let imagine that we are at the naturist beach, i.e. naked.
OK! 
You will see all what I am and I will se the same for you.
 
Well, will you know what I think or shall I know the same for you?
 
Simple answer: NOT!
 
No Data base may contain any data about my current thoughts and feelings.
Yes, the stupid part of humanity may be controlled by big data centers.
But all times it had been controlled. Nothing new.
 
The pseudo scientists may analyze data and may create tons of papers.
For such “production” there was and will exist corresponded more and more big 
cemeteries.
I had edited more than one thousand papers.
Only several was really very important and with great scientific value !!!
 
Collection of data is important problem and it will be such for ever.
But the greater problem for humanity is collection of money 
 
And the last cause the former!
And the last is many times more dangerous than former!
 
Do not worry of Data-ism!
Be worried of the Money-ism!
 
I will continue next week because this is my second post  ( Thanks to wisdom of 
Pedro who had limited Writing-letter-ism in our list! ).
 
Friendly greetings
Krassimir
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Alberto J. Schuhmacher 
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 10:23 PM
To: fis 
Subject: [Fis] Is Dataism the end of classical hypothesis-driven research and 
the beginning of data-correlation-driven research?
 
Dear FIS Colleagues,
I very much appreciate this opportunity to discuss with all of you.
My mentors and science teachers taught me that Science had a method, rules and 
procedures that should be followed and pursued rigorously and with 
perseverance. The scientific research needed to be preceded by one or several 
hypotheses that should be subjected to validation or refutation through 
experiments designed and carried out in a laboratory. The Oxford Dictionaries 
Online defines the scientific method as "a method or procedure that has 
characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic 
observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and 
modification of hypotheses". Experiments are a procedure designed to test 
hypotheses. Experiments are an important tool of the scientific method.
In our case, molecular, personalized and precision medicine aims to anticipate 
the future development of diseases in a specific individual through molecular 
markers registered in the genome, variome, metagenome, metabolome or in any of 
the multiple "omes" that make up the present "omics" language of current 
Biology.
The possibilities of applying these methodologies to the prevention and 
treatment of diseases have increased exponentially with the rise of a new 
religion, Dataism, whose foundations are inspired by scientific agnosticism, a 
way of thinking that seems classical but applied to research, it hides a 
profound revolution.
Dataism arises from the recent human desire to collect and analyze data, data 
and more data, data 

Re: [Fis] Simple amswer: NOT!

[Karl Javorszky]

Dear Krassimir,


Formalism is nice, but it can be unreasonable.

Your example of 2 naked men on a beach can be made simpler by adding a dog,
a sausage and a whistle.

Person A (the dog's owner) sounds the whistle. The dog is apparently used
to being fed and runs up, waging its tail.

Can
1) person A think:
a) the dog thinks it will be fed,
b) this other naked guy thinks I am introducing Pawlow to formal logic;

2) person B think:
a) the measure of intelligence is based on the number of repetitions of a
stimulus until the conditioned reflex is established,
b) this other naked guy apparently teaching his dog to learn to listen to
the whistle;

3) the dog think
a) food coming,
b) the connection between whistle and sausage is a secret that I have
mastered, no other dog will ever figure out the mystery,
c) we dogs live in a world in which past and future exist; these are
connected by the moment, which is the natural home  (in fact, so far, the
only home) of formal logic;
d) poor humans have no fur and can not therefore think.

Do you think you can't navigate a crossing because you are not able to
figure out what the drivers in the cars coming will think? Because they are
not naked?

It is time to start talking about what Pawlow said.  Maybe, after that we
can start discussing what Gregor Mendel said. After that, one will cry
Caramba!

Time slips by while we waste time.

Karl

Am 07.03.2018 21:10 schrieb "Krassimir Markov" :

> Dear Alberto,
>
> Let imagine that we are at the naturist beach, i.e. naked.
> OK!
> You will see all what I am and I will se the same for you.
>
> Well, will you know what I think or shall I know the same for you?
>
> Simple answer: NOT!
>
> No Data base may contain any data about my current thoughts and feelings.
> Yes, the stupid part of humanity may be controlled by big data centers.
> But all times it had been controlled. Nothing new.
>
> The pseudo scientists may analyze data and may create tons of papers.
> For such “production” there was and will exist corresponded more and more
> big cemeteries.
> I had edited more than one thousand papers.
> Only several was really very important and with great scientific value !!!
>
> Collection of data is important problem and it will be such for ever.
> But the greater problem for humanity is collection of money [image: Smile]
>
> And the last cause the former!
> And the last is many times more dangerous than former!
>
> Do not worry of Data-ism!
> Be worried of the Money-ism!
>
> I will continue next week because this is my second post  ( Thanks to
> wisdom of Pedro who had limited Writing-letter-ism in our list! ).
>
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Alberto J. Schuhmacher 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2018 10:23 PM
> *To:* fis 
> *Subject:* [Fis] Is Dataism the end of classical hypothesis-driven
> research and the beginning of data-correlation-driven research?
>
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> I very much appreciate this opportunity to discuss with all of you.
>
> My mentors and science teachers taught me that Science had a method, rules
> and procedures that should be followed and pursued rigorously and with
> perseverance. The scientific research needed to be preceded by one or
> several hypotheses that should be subjected to validation or refutation
> through experiments designed and carried out in a laboratory. The Oxford
> Dictionaries Online defines the scientific method as "a method or procedure
> that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting
> in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the
> formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses". Experiments are a
> procedure designed to test hypotheses. Experiments are an important tool of
> the scientific method.
>
> In our case, molecular, personalized and precision medicine aims to
> anticipate the future development of diseases in a specific individual
> through molecular markers registered in the genome, variome, metagenome,
> metabolome or in any of the multiple "omes" that make up the present
> "omics" language of current Biology.
>
> The possibilities of applying these methodologies to the prevention and
> treatment of diseases have increased exponentially with the rise of a new
> religion, *Dataism*, whose foundations are inspired by scientific
> agnosticism, a way of thinking that seems classical but applied to
> research, it hides a profound revolution.
>
> Dataism arises from the recent human desire to collect and analyze data,
> data and more data, data of everything and data for everything-from the
> most banal social issues to those that decide the rhythms of life and
> death. “Information flow” is one the “supreme values” of this religion. The
> next floods will be of data as we can see just looking at any electronic
> window.
>
> The recent development of gigantic clinical and biological databases, and
> the concomitant progress of the 

[Fis] Is Dataism the end of classical hypothesis-driven research and the beginning of data-correlation-driven research?

[Alberto J. Schuhmacher]

Dear FIS Colleagues, 

I very much appreciate this opportunity to discuss with all of you. 

My mentors and science teachers taught me that Science had a method,
rules and procedures that should be followed and pursued rigorously and
with perseverance. The scientific research needed to be preceded by one
or several hypotheses that should be subjected to validation or
refutation through experiments designed and carried out in a laboratory.
The Oxford Dictionaries Online defines the scientific method as "a
method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the
17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and
experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of
hypotheses". Experiments are a procedure designed to test hypotheses.
Experiments are an important tool of the scientific method. 

In our case, molecular, personalized and precision medicine aims to
anticipate the future development of diseases in a specific individual
through molecular markers registered in the genome, variome, metagenome,
metabolome or in any of the multiple "omes" that make up the present
"omics" language of current Biology. 

The possibilities of applying these methodologies to the prevention and
treatment of diseases have increased exponentially with the rise of a
new religion, _Dataism_, whose foundations are inspired by scientific
agnosticism, a way of thinking that seems classical but applied to
research, it hides a profound revolution. 

Dataism arises from the recent human desire to collect and analyze data,
data and more data, data of everything and data for everything-from the
most banal social issues to those that decide the rhythms of life and
death. "Information flow" is one the "supreme values" of this religion.
The next floods will be of data as we can see just looking at any
electronic window. 

The recent development of gigantic clinical and biological databases,
and the concomitant progress of the computational capacity to handle and
analyze these growing tides of information represent the best substrate
for the progress of Dataism, which in turn has managed to provide a
solid content material to an always-evanescent scientific agnosticism. 

On many occasions the establishment of correlative observations seems to
be sufficient to infer about the relevance of a certain factor in the
development of some human pathologies. It seems that we are heading
towards a path in which research, instead of being driven by hypotheses
confirmed experimentally, in the near future experimental hypotheses
themselves will arise from the observation of data of previously
performed experiments. Are we facing the end of the wet lab? Is Dataism
the end of classical hypothesis-driven research (and the beginning of
data-correlation-driven research)? 

Deep learning is based on learning data representations, as opposed to
task-specific algorithms. Learning can be supervised, semi-supervised or
unsupervised. Deep learning models are loosely related to information
processing and communication patterns in a biological nervous system,
such as neural coding that attempts to define a relationship between
various stimuli and associated neuronal responses in the brain. Deep
learning architectures such as deep neural networks, deep belief
networks and recurrent neural networks have been applied to fields
including computer vision, audio recognition, speech recognition,
machine translation, natural language processing, social network
filtering, bioinformatics and drug design, where they have produced
results comparable to and in some cases superior to human experts. Will
be data-correlation-driven research the new scientific method for
unsupervised deep learning machines_? _Will computers became
fundamentalists of _Dataism_? 

Best regards, 

AJ 

---
Alberto J. Schuhmacher, PhD.
 Head, Molecular Oncology Group

 Aragon Health Research Institute (IIS Aragón)
 Biomedical Research Center of Aragon (CIBA)
 Avda. Juan Bosco 13, 50009 Zaragoza (Spain)
 email: ajime...@iisaragon.es
 Phone:(+34) 637939901___
Fis mailing list
Fis@listas.unizar.es
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis