Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives

2012-12-19 Thread John McCormack

Thank you again.

Although ActionScript is not being developed for the FlashPlayer, is it 
possible that it may still be developed separately for use in AIR? I 
could deliver content through AIR instead of PDFs.


My problem is that the FlashBuilder / Flash Professional workflow is 
such a seductive one, with that easy marriage of graphics and code, that 
I don't want to lose it. I have used C++ to produce graphical programs 
and the AS3 route is a godsend in comparison.


One wonders Is HMTL5 going to use any less CPU cycles than AS3, once it 
is doing similar work?


John

On 18/12/2012 05:38, Alex Harui wrote:

Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives

Things get lost in translation, but one goal of the parallel 
frameworks is to not leverage things that get lost in translation. 
 Otherwise, since JS and AS are ECMA-based, the translation works 
pretty well.


Keep in mind that, while Adobe is no longer investing in ActionScript 
3 on the Flash Player, and not developing Flash Player for mobile 
devices, and AIR may not run on all mobile devices, where the 
FlashPlayer is today, it will likely be there “forever”.  So, if alll 
of your users are using desktops/laptops that have browsers that have 
Flash, you can continue to use Flex and/or ActionScript 3 to build 
applications and they will likely run there not just in five years, 
but even after that.  There is no time-bomb in the players that will 
go off and stop running.  Even though ActionScript Next and 
FlashPlayer Next are not compatibile with ActionScript 3, the AS3 VM 
will ship in the FlashPlayers that Adobe ships in the future.  There 
is the possibility that the browser vendors will stop supporting 
plugins, but I would imagine they will keep a compatibility-mode 
somehow.  I think there is too much Flash content out there and to 
block it from existing desktops/laptops would “break the web” and I 
don’t expect the browser vendors or Adobe take such a risk.  There 
would be too much negative press.  That doesn’t mean that new 
computers with new OS’s may not support Flash (that’s what Apple did 
with IOS), and many home users may forgo traditional computers for 
tablets in the future, so keep that in mind as well.


I don’t know the PDF market that well, but again, I would expect PDFs 
to continue to support Flash “forever” as well.  At least for the 
readers on traditional desktops/laptops.



On 12/17/12 10:48 AM, John McCormack j...@easypeasy.co.uk wrote:




Thank you.
 That's interesting and very helpful.

 One does wonder if a separate translation tool would do the job
faithfully, and so creates doubt.

 For someone that wants to use SWFs in PDFs to deliver educational
content that is fully interactive, what workflow would you suggest
using for the next three to five years?

 John

 On 17/12/2012 16:31, Alex Harui wrote:


  Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives  Adobe has no plans
that I know of to get ActionScript to work with HTML5 in the
same way that Google is proposing Dart as an alternative to
JavaScript.

 The Apache Flex project is working on a compiler that will
translate ActionScript to JavaScript.  In addition, the link I
posted proposes a component framework that would enable you to
build or prototype your app in Flash using FlashBuilder and
ActionScript and then run a separate tool outside of
FlashBuilder to translate it to JavaScript where it will run
and leverage HTML or HTML5 components.

 Alternatively, the same ActionScript to JavaScript compiler
would let you write the script portions of your website as
ActionScript using FlashBuilder and have separate HTML files,
then use the same separate tool outside of FlashBuilder to
translate the ActionScript to JavaScript.  And maybe
variations will be created that can output to various JS
frameworks.

 At this time, there are no plans to change FlashBuilder to
integrate the translation workflow.  Adobe’s focus for
FlashBuilder is on building ActionScript gaming and premium
video projects that run on the Flash player.  I suppose if the
JS workflow became wildly popular and Adobe could see a
revenue stream by supporting such a workflow things might
change, but I wouldn’t count on it.  There is a better chance
that someone in Apache Flex will start creating plugins for
Eclipse to support the workflow or one of the other tool
vendors will provide an integrated workflow.

 The future of ActionScript 3 in Rich Internet Applications
(as opposed to ActionScript “Next” as mentioned in the Flash
roadmap) is actually being given more attention by Apache Flex
than Adobe.  If you want to continue to use ActionScript 3 to
develop RIAs, I would encourage you to get involved with the

[flexcoders] how to style the bottom border of the spark TabBar ?

2012-12-19 Thread Nathan
also see screenshot



Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives

2012-12-19 Thread Alex Harui
Well, there are several pieces.  ActionScript is a language.  It is really only 
the dozen classes or so in the “top-level” in the ASDoc.  String, int, RegEx, 
Array, Vector, a few functions like unescape, etc, plus a bunch of keywords and 
stuff like “var”, “class”, plus a grammar of how you put it all together.  It 
hasn’t changed much in years, other than the addition of Vector.  There are no 
plans to improve on its specification by adding things it is missing compared 
to other languages like Java such as method overloading, or mutiple 
inheritance.  Instead, Adobe is tossing out the whole specification and 
developing a next-generation of ActionScript.  It will have some of the same 
things you see in the current ActionScript, but there will be new keywords and 
grammar.  The goal is to give up on backward compatibility in order to get 
significant speed improvements by making the language easier to execute at 
runtime.

ActionScript currently only runs in a Virtual Machine embedded in the 
FlashPlayer or AIR.  Both runtimes provide additional APIs that allow you to 
draw stuff and get network i/o, etc.  The current APIs use ActionScript 3 
syntax and are focused primarily on Sprites, Shapes and MovieClips on a display 
list.  New features were added in every major release.

Now, Adobe is working on embedding a new Virtual Machine that runs the 
next-generation ActionScript in the FlashPlayer and AIR.  The focus is on 
gaming, and a new set of APIs that talk to a 3d rendering engine is being 
devloped in the next-generation ActionScript syntax.  There will be no support 
for the old Sprites/Shapes/MovieClips and display list.

However, the old virtual machine that runs ActionScript 3 will continue to be 
embedded in the FlashPlayer and AIR that run on tradtional desktops/laptops.  I 
would not expect it to be co-existent on mobile versions of AIR because the new 
focus is on the captive runtime workflow where you pre-process your 
ActionScript code and the runtime libraries into a device-dependent executable.

So, given all of that, you can continue to deliver ActionScript 3 content in 
AIR or FlashPlayer on desktops/laptops “forever”.  And unless you have heard 
otherwise from the PDF team, they probably won’t eliminate support for Flash in 
PDF on desktop/laptops soon.

I think Apache Flex exists because folks have found the Flex workflow easy and 
productive and also safe because it uses structured programming, and former 
Flex customers are now pitching in to continue to evolve Flex as much as we can 
given the constraints of the current environment.  The problem for many is 
that, because Adobe is not evolving the ActionScript 3 language, VM and runtime 
APIs related to it, folks see it as a dead end and no longer want to develop 
apps on it.  I can see their point, but there is a reason why DOS is still 
around on some custom handheld devices: it works, it is well known, and has a 
small footprint for a constrained environment.  Flash/AIR and Flex on 
ActionScript3 continue to be excellent ways to create apps quickly, but it has 
been difficult to convince customers to stick with it.

Anyway, so far, the most interest in Apache Flex seems to be around trying to 
leverage the Flex workflow to create apps that run on the HTML/CSS/JS stack 
(without Flash).  It will have growing pains for sure, but to me, a question 
about CPU load is premature.  There is 1000’s of people from all over the world 
working on improving the runtime environment for HTML/CSS/JS.  They have made 
significant advances in the past several years and I don’t see a cap on it.  So 
any pain points you experience now are likely to be solved in the near future.  
If you can continue to use Flash/AIR and let others suffer through the growing 
pains, consider yourself lucky.  Otherwise, put on some pads and join the 
battle.

On 12/19/12 9:29 AM, John McCormack j...@easypeasy.co.uk wrote:







Thank you again.

 Although ActionScript is not being developed for the FlashPlayer, is it 
possible that it may still be developed separately for use in AIR? I could 
deliver content through AIR instead of PDFs.

 My problem is that the FlashBuilder / Flash Professional workflow is such a 
seductive one, with that easy marriage of graphics and code, that I don't want 
to lose it. I have used C++ to produce graphical programs and the AS3 route is 
a godsend in comparison.

 One wonders Is HMTL5 going to use any less CPU cycles than AS3, once it is 
doing similar work?

 John

 On 18/12/2012 05:38, Alex Harui wrote:


  Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives  Things get lost in translation, but 
one goal of the parallel frameworks is to not leverage things that get lost in 
translation.  Otherwise, since JS and AS are ECMA-based, the translation works 
pretty well.

 Keep in mind that, while Adobe is no longer investing in ActionScript 3 on the 
Flash Player, and not developing Flash Player for mobile devices, and AIR may 
not run on all