Re: [flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
I can say which our company picks when given that choice but the mailing list isn't going to like it. 2010/2/17 Jake Churchill reyna...@gmail.com I think the server technology experience part of the requirements are usually cut and paste. But if you have a large system already built in Java and they want to integrate some Flex UI stuff into the mix, they probably want someone who at least understands how the backend works. If the company gets 2 applicants, one with just flex and one with flex and java experience, which do you think they'll pick? More food for thought :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:53 AM, djhatrick djhatr...@yahoo.com wrote: Don't you think those requirements are cut and paste? Being a good flex developer with experience in other structured languages is good, but usually isn't a deal-breaker, I mean really, are you going to be crafting a backend unit and doing all the ui too? If you are, well more power to you, I find the flex/air sandbox enough work to keep my nose out of most of the backend, on big projects anyway. Food for thought. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, fred44455 fred44...@... wrote: Since this year you don't seems to be able to find a Job Offer in Flex without the requirement: Knowledge in Java, JEE2 etc.. required( Most job ads in Dice.com) Is that mean that now not only I need to learn Flex but also Java to be able to find a Flex Developer job??
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
Thanks for the tip but one quesiton SDK (not Java EE) Not EE? I would have assumed it should be EE we should be looking at Dan --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Flex myflexdownlo...@gmail.com wrote: From: Flex myflexdownlo...@gmail.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java?? To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 6:57 PM I think that is because flex is now making inroads into the enterprise and Java is one of the big languages for big enterprises. SAP Business objects product XCelsius is based on Flex and has come with an SDK that lets you integrate Flex components as BOBJ components for dashboarding. SAP Visual Composer is based on flex too. Oracle has some products that use it as well. Now for enterprise's using Java, UI has laways been the weakest link. JSP is decent but nowhere close to Flex. JSF never got that popular ans struts is age-old but still used. The real problems is multitude of technologies there that are complex and still do not do that good a job. Enter Flex with its good integration capabilities, remoting capabilities, browser independent development etc and the really cool nice interface at a quarter of the time... So the strongest contender on UI is trying to replace the weakest performer here. Don't get me wrong...I am a java guy and I love it (a bit of love is lost after the oracle acquisition) but having used Servlets, JSP, Struts and MyFaces I really like Flex. You do not have to know that much Java...just a bit on how servlets work, security and web services. There are online tutorials on Sun that are pretty good...Java Trails on the core SDK (not Java EE) Web Manager FlexDownloads. com --- In flexcod...@yahoogro ups.com, fred44455 fred44...@. .. wrote: Since this year you don't seems to be able to find a Job Offer in Flex without the requirement: Knowledge in Java, JEE2 etc.. required( Most job ads in Dice.com) Is that mean that now not only I need to learn Flex but also Java to be able to find a Flex Developer job??
[flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
We are working in a buyer's market right now and many companies want one person to do the work of 2 people, thus a required skillset with 20 disparate items that no mortal human can possible obtain. I've been using Flex for 6 months and it's not enough experience to get a 'Flex' job but I have years of Java/JSP/SQL etc. experience but I get discounted one way or the other so I've been out of work for the last 3 months after being laid off. It's a bad market for us, at least here in Austin. The few jobs that I'm qualified for are listed for weeks and months until the PERFECT candidate is found. It sucks. I see quite a few positions open where the client wants to tack a Flex front end onto an existing Java back end, usually because JSP creation is such a quagmire. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more of this. I think having BlazeDS and Cairngorm as well as front-end skills will become equally import when FlashBuilder is finally released. Hold tight! --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Flex myflexdownlo...@... wrote: I think that is because flex is now making inroads into the enterprise and Java is one of the big languages for big enterprises. SAP Business objects product XCelsius is based on Flex and has come with an SDK that lets you integrate Flex components as BOBJ components for dashboarding. SAP Visual Composer is based on flex too. Oracle has some products that use it as well. Now for enterprise's using Java, UI has laways been the weakest link. JSP is decent but nowhere close to Flex. JSF never got that popular ans struts is age-old but still used. The real problems is multitude of technologies there that are complex and still do not do that good a job. Enter Flex with its good integration capabilities, remoting capabilities, browser independent development etc and the really cool nice interface at a quarter of the time... So the strongest contender on UI is trying to replace the weakest performer here. Don't get me wrong...I am a java guy and I love it (a bit of love is lost after the oracle acquisition) but having used Servlets, JSP, Struts and MyFaces I really like Flex. You do not have to know that much Java...just a bit on how servlets work, security and web services. There are online tutorials on Sun that are pretty good...Java Trails on the core SDK (not Java EE) Web Manager FlexDownloads.com --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, fred44455 fred44455@ wrote: Since this year you don't seems to be able to find a Job Offer in Flex without the requirement: Knowledge in Java, JEE2 etc.. required( Most job ads in Dice.com) Is that mean that now not only I need to learn Flex but also Java to be able to find a Flex Developer job??
[flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
Don't you think those requirements are cut and paste? Being a good flex developer with experience in other structured languages is good, but usually isn't a deal-breaker, I mean really, are you going to be crafting a backend unit and doing all the ui too? If you are, well more power to you, I find the flex/air sandbox enough work to keep my nose out of most of the backend, on big projects anyway. Food for thought. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, fred44455 fred44...@... wrote: Since this year you don't seems to be able to find a Job Offer in Flex without the requirement: Knowledge in Java, JEE2 etc.. required( Most job ads in Dice.com) Is that mean that now not only I need to learn Flex but also Java to be able to find a Flex Developer job??
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
I think the server technology experience part of the requirements are usually cut and paste. But if you have a large system already built in Java and they want to integrate some Flex UI stuff into the mix, they probably want someone who at least understands how the backend works. If the company gets 2 applicants, one with just flex and one with flex and java experience, which do you think they'll pick? More food for thought :) On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:53 AM, djhatrick djhatr...@yahoo.com wrote: Don't you think those requirements are cut and paste? Being a good flex developer with experience in other structured languages is good, but usually isn't a deal-breaker, I mean really, are you going to be crafting a backend unit and doing all the ui too? If you are, well more power to you, I find the flex/air sandbox enough work to keep my nose out of most of the backend, on big projects anyway. Food for thought. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, fred44455 fred44...@... wrote: Since this year you don't seems to be able to find a Job Offer in Flex without the requirement: Knowledge in Java, JEE2 etc.. required( Most job ads in Dice.com) Is that mean that now not only I need to learn Flex but also Java to be able to find a Flex Developer job??
[flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Nick Collins ndcoll...@... wrote: I think you should have a functional knowledge of several backend languages with which you might interface. Java of course, is the biggie, but also Ruby, C#, Coldfusion, maybe Python... which is not to say that I think it is necessary to have experience architecting the entire back end from scratch. You should, however, know enough to be able to read the code given to you and know what you need to do to interface with it. Bottom line, it doesn't matter what _you_ think (or I think for that matter). Only what the recruiter/hiring manager thinks. And that means that if you're not an EXACT match for what's on that sheet of paper, you are SOL. Because they don't know that ASP.Net=backend and Java=backend, so if you know ASP.net you already have a lot of foundational knowledge that can be applied to Java (or vice versa), or that MySQL is a database and SQLServer is a database, so knowledge in one carries across to the other. They also do not look at resumes and say Wow! He/she has picked up a lot of languages to a fair amount of depth in x years. He/she can probably be up to speed in pretty much anything quickly. I think this is because life as a hiring manager or recruiter doesn't really involve the skill of learning large bodies of knowledge quickly, so they can't really recognize it as a skill. And even if they could, could they then turn around and sell that skill to a hiring body that probably doesn't really see that either? JMO; Amy
[flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
I think that is because flex is now making inroads into the enterprise and Java is one of the big languages for big enterprises. SAP Business objects product XCelsius is based on Flex and has come with an SDK that lets you integrate Flex components as BOBJ components for dashboarding. SAP Visual Composer is based on flex too. Oracle has some products that use it as well. Now for enterprise's using Java, UI has laways been the weakest link. JSP is decent but nowhere close to Flex. JSF never got that popular ans struts is age-old but still used. The real problems is multitude of technologies there that are complex and still do not do that good a job. Enter Flex with its good integration capabilities, remoting capabilities, browser independent development etc and the really cool nice interface at a quarter of the time... So the strongest contender on UI is trying to replace the weakest performer here. Don't get me wrong...I am a java guy and I love it (a bit of love is lost after the oracle acquisition) but having used Servlets, JSP, Struts and MyFaces I really like Flex. You do not have to know that much Java...just a bit on how servlets work, security and web services. There are online tutorials on Sun that are pretty good...Java Trails on the core SDK (not Java EE) Web Manager FlexDownloads.com --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, fred44455 fred44...@... wrote: Since this year you don't seems to be able to find a Job Offer in Flex without the requirement: Knowledge in Java, JEE2 etc.. required( Most job ads in Dice.com) Is that mean that now not only I need to learn Flex but also Java to be able to find a Flex Developer job??
[flexcoders] Re: Why most Flex Developer job ads ask now for Knowledge in Java??
Flex being relatively new, I suspect many companies hiring Flex developers don't yet have a Flex project and need someone who can at least develop a Proof Of Concept. That's what I had to do at my company: in addition to learning Flex, I also learned Ruby on Rails for the back end (I knew Java but considered it less efficient in terms of development time). The POC worked fine, but management considered the whole Ruby/Rails/Nginx (or Apache), etc. stack a little too intimidating, so they asked me to rewrite the back end using Oracle HTTP Server and PL/SQL, which I then had to learn... It also works fine, but I miss the conciseness of RoR. I think I'll try Grails next; then I'll have looped back to Java!
