[Flightgear-devel] Anyone using TomTom POI files for scenery populating?
Hi all, I've accidentally come into those POI (Point Of Interest) files for TomTom GPS systems which carry a very big amount of informations regarding many things laying around the world (restaurants, fuel stations, railroad stations, cinemas, schools, hotels ...). Those files are easily convertible to plain ASCII text, getting latitude, longitude (the height is missing) and a small notation of the POI. I currently enjoy building real world 3d models (mainly buildings) to put into FGFS sceneries, but it takes time :-( and the development of scenery files for FGFS need some boost (I think it's very important for VFR flight at least) so I think it could be nice to use such POI files in order to populate great areas of the world with many shared objects (e.g. so many gas stations looks pretty the same from above and those POI files even distinguish different brands of gas stations :-) and very few effort. Did anyone walked this way before? I am starting to build some 3d models of the most common gas stations and hotels around my city. I need a way to get the height of some point of a scenery having latitude and longitude only (no clue how to do that). I will check if those coordinates used in TomTom files are coherent with FGFS format or need some conversion. I will go on looking around the internet for finding other interesting POI files (I am currently trying to get a detailed map of Wind Energy Farms in my country which could be very nice landmarks to put into FGFS :-) I also noticed that those POI files are generally distributed free with very relaxed licenses. Roberto -- DSL Komplett von GMX +++ Supergünstig und stressfrei einsteigen! AKTION Kein Einrichtungspreis nutzen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Anyone using TomTom POI files for scenery populating?
I've accidentally come into those POI (Point Of Interest) files for TomTom GPS systems which carry a very big amount of informations regarding many things laying around the world (restaurants, fuel stations, railroad stations, cinemas, schools, hotels ...). Those files are easily convertible to plain ASCII text, getting latitude, longitude (the height is missing) and a small notation of the POI. I currently enjoy building real world 3d models (mainly buildings) to put into FGFS sceneries, but it takes time :-( and the development of scenery files for FGFS need some boost (I think it's very important for VFR flight at least) so I think it could be nice to use such POI files in order to populate great areas of the world with many shared objects (e.g. so many gas stations looks pretty the same from above and those POI files even distinguish different brands of gas stations :-) and very few effort. Did anyone walked this way before? Not with TomTom POI files that I'm aware of. There is a *lot* of ongoing work on getting more ground structures into the FG scenery, however. Jon Stockill and Martin Spott have built a master database for ground scenery object locations and shared models to represent them. Jon's populated the database of locations with objects from the UK's CAA obstruction surveys, as well as the implied positions of VORs/localizers/etc. from world airports; I've added the U.S. FAA's obstruction information (including just about everything in the U.S. above 200 feet AGL, and a lot that isn't) and the FCC's database of antenna structures. Lots of us have been making shared models for generic objects (e.g. a generic crane, a generic smokestack/chimney, generic skyscrapers for buildings that nobody's specifically done yet, etc.), as well as models for specific structures/landmarks. I don't know that an official release announcement has been made of yet, but go ahead and take a look at: http://fgfsdb.stockill.org/ Depending on the objects in the POI files, there may be some overlap; but more data is always good. I am starting to build some 3d models of the most common gas stations and hotels around my city. Please consider contributing them to the database. I need a way to get the height of some point of a scenery having latitude and longitude only (no clue how to do that). Both Jon and I have written code to do this iteratively for a list of lat/lon locations (I think Jon used Perl; I used Python). Sadly, it requires running FlightGear and is slow; but at least it's hands-off. I will check if those coordinates used in TomTom files are coherent with FGFS format or need some conversion. I will go on looking around the internet for finding other interesting POI files (I am currently trying to get a detailed map of Wind Energy Farms in my country which could be very nice landmarks to put into FGFS :-) There's a wind turbine model in the database for just this reason; there are wind turbine locations in the database, but they could stand some fleshing-out. So this would be good. I also noticed that those POI files are generally distributed free with very relaxed licenses. But this is the crux of the biscuit. What, specifically, is the license? Very relaxed isn't detailed enough to say whether it's compatible with the GPL, and thus can/cannot be distributed with FlightGear. It's likely that the POI files themselves cannot be distributed with FG. *HOWEVER*, it's generally the case that copyright law indicates that one can copyright the presentation of a set of facts, but cannot copyright the facts themselves. Thus, you're violating Encyclopedia Britannica's copyright if you photocopy and distribute one of their volumes; but you aren't violating their copyright if you write your own volume in your own words that nonetheless contains all the information/facts contained in that Encyclopedia Britannica volume. So while it may not be possible to distribute the files, it may be possible to distribute the information within the files. Knowing the license would be helpful here. Cheers, -c ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Anyone using TomTom POI files for scenery populating?
Hello Chris, Did anyone walked this way before? Not with TomTom POI files that I'm aware of. There is a *lot* of ongoing work on getting more ground structures into the FG scenery, however. Jon Stockill and Martin Spott have built a master database for ground scenery object locations and shared models to represent them. That is a good job. I like it :-) Jon's populated the database of locations with objects from the UK's CAA obstruction surveys, as well as the implied positions of VORs/localizers/etc. from world airports; I've added the U.S. FAA's obstruction information (including just about everything in the U.S. above 200 feet AGL, and a lot that isn't) and the FCC's database of antenna structures. Lots of us have been making shared models for generic objects (e.g. a generic crane, a generic smokestack/chimney, generic skyscrapers for buildings that nobody's specifically done yet, etc.), as well as models for specific structures/landmarks. I don't know that an official release announcement has been made of yet, but go ahead and take a look at: http://fgfsdb.stockill.org/ Depending on the objects in the POI files, there may be some overlap; but more data is always good. I am starting to build some 3d models of the most common gas stations and hotels around my city. Please consider contributing them to the database. I already did :-) I even contributed, and will again in the near future. I have a lot of work in progress here. Sadly I'm relatively new to this stuff so the work needs time (mainly used for learning how to use the software and how things work) so I don't upload very many models to the database. Anyway I like it and I will go on with the 3d building phase. I'd apprecheate having some more tools (knowledge and skill) for terrain manipulating but ... by now I have to base my work on the current scenery terrain datasets, even if they're not detailed/correct enough. I need a way to get the height of some point of a scenery having latitude and longitude only (no clue how to do that). Both Jon and I have written code to do this iteratively for a list of lat/lon locations (I think Jon used Perl; I used Python). Sadly, it requires running FlightGear and is slow; but at least it's hands-off. Does it work (did you test it) with Win32 OS too? That's what I need. I will check if those coordinates used in TomTom files are coherent with FGFS format or need some conversion. I will go on looking around the internet for finding other interesting POI files (I am currently trying to get a detailed map of Wind Energy Farms in my country which could be very nice landmarks to put into FGFS :-) There's a wind turbine model in the database for just this reason; there are wind turbine locations in the database, but they could stand some fleshing-out. So this would be good. I will use it of course. At least untill I find detailed pictures of the ones in my country. I prefer being as much realistic as I can because I don't like world simulations far too distant from reality. I once saw a MSFS scenery of the city I lieve into, which used a lot of shared buildings to populate the city, well ... It was pretty nice but I was very disturbed by those evidently _fake_ grey boxes around. It was very nice to look at the only realistic buildings of the scenery and, knowing the place, only thanks to them I was able to immediately recognize the city tile. The remaining parts were very confusing. So, I will first make use of shared (generic) models and then will (if possible) create more realistic (not more detailed but more similar to the real objects) models. That's my idea, but I like hearing what other FGFS users like too :-) I also noticed that those POI files are generally distributed free with very relaxed licenses. But this is the crux of the biscuit. What, specifically, is the license? Very relaxed isn't detailed enough to say whether it's compatible with the GPL, and thus can/cannot be distributed with FlightGear. It's likely that the POI files themselves cannot be distributed with FG. Well, I've already found some POI files which are distributed with the only limitation being not to distribute them without stating where I took them from. Is this compatible enough to GNU-GPL? :-) *HOWEVER*, it's generally the case that copyright law indicates that one can copyright the presentation of a set of facts, but cannot copyright the facts themselves. Thus, you're violating Encyclopedia Britannica's copyright if you photocopy and distribute one of their volumes; but you aren't violating their copyright if you write your own volume in your own words that nonetheless contains all the information/facts contained in that Encyclopedia Britannica volume. So while it may not be possible to distribute the files, it may be possible to distribute the information within the files. Good point, the problem arises when a
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Anyone using TomTom POI files for scenery populating?
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:34:20 +0100 (MET), Roberto wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also noticed that those POI files are generally distributed free with very relaxed licenses. But this is the crux of the biscuit. What, specifically, is the license? Very relaxed isn't detailed enough to say whether it's compatible with the GPL, and thus can/cannot be distributed with FlightGear. It's likely that the POI files themselves cannot be distributed with FG. Well, I've already found some POI files which are distributed with the only limitation being not to distribute them without stating where I took them from. Is this compatible enough to GNU-GPL? :-) ..the specific wording would be helpful, legalese _is_ a mine field. *HOWEVER*, it's generally the case that copyright law indicates that one can copyright the presentation of a set of facts, but cannot copyright the facts themselves. Thus, you're violating Encyclopedia Britannica's copyright if you photocopy and distribute one of their volumes; but you aren't violating their copyright if you write your own volume in your own words that nonetheless contains all the information/facts contained in that Encyclopedia Britannica volume. So while it may not be possible to distribute the files, it may be possible to distribute the information within the files. Good point, the problem arises when a license requires the user not to use the informations distributed/obtained/produced with/thanks to the copyrighted files for any other purpose then the ones specified by the license (which could be a software, a piece of hardware or whatever). ..see what I mean by mine field? ;o) ..the information, by itself, _may_ be patentable, and it may even be restricted under contract law as trade secret by Non Disclosure Agreements. ..the specific expression (of the information), by itself, is _not_ patentable, it _is_ copyrighted (if it can be), until it falls into the public domain as the author's copyright expires or is put into the public domain by the author. ..copyrighted expressions cannot be distributed at all, under copyright law, unless the author specificly allows this. He may do so with common sales contracts, open source licenses, weird ass slave contracts called End User License Agreement, or, he can license it under the GPL. ..so, if you're _really_ gonna spoil your time etc on this planet to prove my point, you're invited to sing the full text of Linus Torvald's Linux kernel source code, Live on Fox, in your own expressive opera aria song style, and pay me royalty for the use of my patent pending idea to reduce national health expenditures from excessive US TV watching. ;o) Interesting point; I think we have a lot of Encyclopedia Britannica like information sources around; I think noone can copyright the WGS84 UTM coordinates of a Museum in my city, right? Or am I missing something in the copyright world scenario :-) ..some; it _depends_: the actual coordinates, correct as in No. The graphical expression can be painted in oil on a canvas and copyrighted as an early Inzerillo if you do it now, or it can be used and registred as a trademark for Inzerillo cigars made from your early paintings. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
