Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
FWIW I checked the logs for the c172-set.xml: revision 1.10 date: 2002/01/19 17:18:19; author: david; state: Exp; lines: +6 -2 Added initial levels for each fuel tank (not full capacity). revision 1.9 date: 2002/01/19 03:10:07; author: david; state: Exp; lines: +7 -0 Set initial levels for fuel tanks (not quite working yet). So it looks like we haven't been using the JSBsim supplied value for fuel, at least on the stock c172, since mid january. On Friday 11 October 2002 02:50 am, John Check wrote: On Friday 11 October 2002 01:17 am, Jon Berndt wrote: Whats the deal with the x24b fuel wise? That's missing a consumables section as are the shuttle and x15 ?? The JSBSim config files have fuel loaded for the X15, the X24B, the C310, the C172, etc. But NOT the shuttle (we just use it as a glider). I don't know what this consumables thing it, but JSBSim loads its aircraft with fuel in the JSBSim config files. If it has no fuel, the FlightGear is screwing around with the fuel, after the aircraft is already loaded by us. Jon It's where the amount of fuel is published to drive the guages, or so I thought.. j4strngs@araka c310u3a $ cvs log c310u3a.xml snip revision 1.5 date: 2002/09/24 12:56:05; author: tony; state: Exp; lines: +76 -84 Updated all JSBSim aircraft config files to new file format Hmm... that section is a comment about the gear section... So the question is, is the cfg file parsing broken or are the values getting overwritten. Well... they're getting overwritten now that I added a section to the *set.xml files for the 310. poking around. Okay I see the c182-set has a consumables section as well and the last time that file was molested was 8/28: revision 1.10 date: 2002/08/28 15:00:26; author: curt; state: Exp; lines: +2 -0 Add a brief description to each *-set.xml file. Yow, I bet list traffic will be high tomorrow. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Jon Berndt wrote: Who emptied the fuel tanks? I took it out for a trip on thursday. I must have forgotten to fill it up again. Sorry guys. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jon Berndt wrote: Who emptied the fuel tanks? I took it out for a trip on thursday. I must have forgotten to fill it up again. Sorry guys. hehe...Curt should have caught that preflight. Lucky for him they were bone dry :-) Maybe we should randomize tank level. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: David Megginson writes: Please remember that FlightGear is not just a visualizer for batch-mode aero runs -- people use it to fly interactively. NIT: Please remember what it says on our Home Page The FlightGear project is working to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for the development and pursuit of interesting flight simulator ideas. We are developing a solid, basic sim that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing. OOPS -- I see that this has changed too. The goal of the FlightGear project is to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for use in research or academic environments, for the development and pursuit of other interesting flight simulation ideas, and as an end-user application. We are developing a sophisticated, open simulation framework that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing. My vote goes with the newer goal statement. Change is always a given (fortunately!). But, actually the second seems more like an broadening of the first. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jon Berndt wrote: Who emptied the fuel tanks? I took it out for a trip on thursday. I must have forgotten to fill it up again. Sorry guys. hehe...Curt should have caught that preflight. Lucky for him they were bone dry :-) Maybe we should randomize tank level. Do we have a working fuel gauge ? Can't check for the moment. Cheers, -Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Yes we have, at least for the 172. Note, however, that regular fuel gauges are not all that reliable, FAA certification standards require that fuel gauges read (1) empty when there is only unusable fuel (or less) in that tank (2) a different indication when the tank is full I suspect the only reason for (2) is to prohibit manufacturers from painting a needle onto the dial that always points to empty. Thus, an acceptable gauge might have a needle that indicates full when the tank is above half full and empty when less than half full. Hope that helps ... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Friday 11 October 2002 01:17 am, Jon Berndt wrote: Whats the deal with the x24b fuel wise? That's missing a consumables section as are the shuttle and x15 ?? The JSBSim config files have fuel loaded for the X15, the X24B, the C310, the C172, etc. But NOT the shuttle (we just use it as a glider). I don't know what this consumables thing it, but JSBSim loads its aircraft with fuel in the JSBSim config files. If it has no fuel, the FlightGear is screwing around with the fuel, after the aircraft is already loaded by us. Jon It's where the amount of fuel is published to drive the guages, or so I thought.. j4strngs@araka c310u3a $ cvs log c310u3a.xml snip revision 1.5 date: 2002/09/24 12:56:05; author: tony; state: Exp; lines: +76 -84 Updated all JSBSim aircraft config files to new file format Hmm... that section is a comment about the gear section... So the question is, is the cfg file parsing broken or are the values getting overwritten. Well... they're getting overwritten now that I added a section to the *set.xml files for the 310. poking around. Okay I see the c182-set has a consumables section as well and the last time that file was molested was 8/28: revision 1.10 date: 2002/08/28 15:00:26; author: curt; state: Exp; lines: +2 -0 Add a brief description to each *-set.xml file. Yow, I bet list traffic will be high tomorrow. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
John Check writes: Dunno. I checked a few revisions back and didn't see anything. I'm committing wet tanks shortly. Remember that I just fixed FlightGear to stop picking up defaults from c172.xml. Hmm. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Curtis L. Olson writes: John Check writes: Also, what happened to the runway lighting? I'm a little out of touch since I've spent the last week (at least) installing Gentoo It should still be there, isn't it? I have been working on building more infrastructure for doing runway/approach lighting and working on using environment mapping to simulate directional lights which (except for VASI/PAPI) is working out very well. It's still there for me, but it appears as 3-point triangles now. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Jon Berndt writes: The JSBSim config files have fuel loaded for the X15, the X24B, the C310, the C172, etc. But NOT the shuttle (we just use it as a glider). I don't know what this consumables thing it, but JSBSim loads its aircraft with fuel in the JSBSim config files. If it has no fuel, the FlightGear is screwing around with the fuel, after the aircraft is already loaded by us. Right. We allow the users to change the fuel level, so the default in the JSBSim config file doesn't matter. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Erik Hofman writes: Jon Berndt wrote: Who emptied the fuel tanks? I took it out for a trip on thursday. I must have forgotten to fill it up again. Sorry guys. Damn -- do you know how much condensation there must be in the tanks? I'll be draining water for half an hour. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Jon Berndt writes: The JSBSim config files have fuel loaded for the X15, the X24B, the C310, the C172, etc. But NOT the shuttle (we just use it as a glider). I don't know what this consumables thing it, but JSBSim loads its aircraft with fuel in the JSBSim config files. If it has no fuel, the FlightGear is screwing around with the fuel, after the aircraft is already loaded by us. David replied: Right. We allow the users to change the fuel level, so the default in the JSBSim config file doesn't matter. H. I don't like this at all. Why was this done? For one thing, in the JSBSim config file the capacity is listed there as well, so one can easily be alerted to accidentally giving too much fuel. There should be one place for this to be done. Overriding the config file value will confuse people, and make people think something is broken. Like it has here. Also, there are mass properties isues. This feature needs to be removed from FlightGear, I think. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Jon Berndt writes: Right. We allow the users to change the fuel level, so the default in the JSBSim config file doesn't matter. H. I don't like this at all. Why was this done? 1. We have several different FDMs and need a common mechanism for setting and displaying fuel levels for all of them. 2. Users need to be able to select an initial fuel level with each run, just as in real life -- flying a small plane is often a tradeoff between how much fuel you'd like and how much weight you can manage. 3. When we restore a saved flight, we want to be able to start with the same amount of fuel we had when we saved the flight. We've done it this way for a year (maybe two) and it generally works well -- Tony did a good job interfacing it. Soon, we'll also need an FDM-independent way of specifying the payload positions. Note that the FDMs still manage fuel consumption themselves -- FlightGear just tells them how much the user wants to start with. Overriding the config file value will confuse people, and make people think something is broken. We tracked this one down easily enough. It would be much worse if there were a different mechanism for fueling JSBSim, LARCsim/UIUC, and YASim planes. Please remember that FlightGear is not just a visualizer for batch-mode aero runs -- people use it to fly interactively. A fixed setting in an FDM-specific static init file isn't sufficient. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
David Megginson writes: Please remember that FlightGear is not just a visualizer for batch-mode aero runs -- people use it to fly interactively. NIT: Please remember what it says on our Home Page The FlightGear project is working to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for the development and pursuit of interesting flight simulator ideas. We are developing a solid, basic sim that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing. OOPS -- I see that this has changed too. The goal of the FlightGear project is to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for use in research or academic environments, for the development and pursuit of other interesting flight simulation ideas, and as an end-user application. We are developing a sophisticated, open simulation framework that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing. Can't find the CVS log entry but it is relatively recent http://web.archive.org/web/20020124173417/http://www.flightgear.org/ Hmm... Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Jon Berndt writes: 1. We have several different FDMs and need a common mechanism for setting and displaying fuel levels for all of them. 3. When we restore a saved flight, we want to be able to start with the same amount of fuel we had when we saved the flight. Please remember that FlightGear is not just a visualizer for batch-mode aero runs -- people use it to fly interactively. A fixed setting in an FDM-specific static init file isn't sufficient. The question is: which one should override which? As for FlightGear being a visualizer, well, Duh! Of course I agree with your statement. My own preference is to set the fuel level in the config file and let it be, but that's just me. I don't recall that change being made, so it was a bit of a surprise to me. Jon smime.p7s Description: application/pkcs7-signature
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Norman Vine writes: Please remember that FlightGear is not just a visualizer for batch-mode aero runs -- people use it to fly interactively. NIT: Please remember what it says on our Home Page The FlightGear project is working to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for the development and pursuit of interesting flight simulator ideas. We are developing a solid, basic sim that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing. OOPS -- I see that this has changed too. The goal of the FlightGear project is to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for use in research or academic environments, for the development and pursuit of other interesting flight simulation ideas, and as an end-user application. We are developing a sophisticated, open simulation framework that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone interested in contributing. I'm not sure I follow: we're using a common mechanism to pass user requests for initial fuel level to all FDMs, just as we use a common mechanism to pass user requests for aileron deflection to all FDMs. We did this a long time ago, before there even was a YASim (for example). It's also worth noting that we are (very slowly) spinning off the framework part into SimGear, so that FlightGear will eventually be the a specific flight simulator built on top of the framework rather than the framework itself. When the original mission statement was written, there was no separate SimGear. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Friday 11 October 2002 07:02 am, David Megginson wrote: John Check writes: Dunno. I checked a few revisions back and didn't see anything. I'm committing wet tanks shortly. Remember that I just fixed FlightGear to stop picking up defaults from c172.xml. Hmm. All the best, David Okay. I've been wanting to move the style related stuff out of preferences.xml for a long time. I'll see if it works now. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Thursday 10 October 2002 10:49 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: I'm not sure what changed, but I can no longer start the c310u3a-3d engines. They will fire and turn over, but as soon as I disengage the starter, they spin back down and refuse to run. Also, they no longer come up running by default. Regards, Curt. The 2d 310 is the same, but the yasim one starts. JSBsim related perhaps? ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Thursday 10 October 2002 10:49 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: I'm not sure what changed, but I can no longer start the c310u3a-3d engines. They will fire and turn over, but as soon as I disengage the starter, they spin back down and refuse to run. Also, they no longer come up running by default. Regards, Curt. Okay, the fuel tanks appear to be dry. Add some fuel and they fire up. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Who emptied the fuel tanks? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Check Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d On Thursday 10 October 2002 10:49 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: I'm not sure what changed, but I can no longer start the c310u3a-3d engines. They will fire and turn over, but as soon as I disengage the starter, they spin back down and refuse to run. Also, they no longer come up running by default. Regards, Curt. Okay, the fuel tanks appear to be dry. Add some fuel and they fire up. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Friday 11 October 2002 12:05 am, Jon Berndt wrote: Who emptied the fuel tanks? Dunno. I checked a few revisions back and didn't see anything. I'm committing wet tanks shortly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Check Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d On Thursday 10 October 2002 10:49 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: I'm not sure what changed, but I can no longer start the c310u3a-3d engines. They will fire and turn over, but as soon as I disengage the starter, they spin back down and refuse to run. Also, they no longer come up running by default. Regards, Curt. Okay, the fuel tanks appear to be dry. Add some fuel and they fire up. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Friday 11 October 2002 12:08 am, John Check wrote: On Friday 11 October 2002 12:05 am, Jon Berndt wrote: Who emptied the fuel tanks? Dunno. I checked a few revisions back and didn't see anything. I'm committing wet tanks shortly. I forgot to put it in the log message, but I also moved markup defining state to the head of the c310*-set.xml for consistencies sake. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Is this a side effect of no longer getting the C172 defaults? Jon Berndt writes: Who emptied the fuel tanks? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Check Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d On Thursday 10 October 2002 10:49 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: I'm not sure what changed, but I can no longer start the c310u3a-3d engines. They will fire and turn over, but as soon as I disengage the starter, they spin back down and refuse to run. Also, they no longer come up running by default. Regards, Curt. Okay, the fuel tanks appear to be dry. Add some fuel and they fire up. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Friday 11 October 2002 12:15 am, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Is this a side effect of no longer getting the C172 defaults? That sounds like a reasonable deduction. I'm checking the rest of the planes to see if we need to gas up. I noticed the yasim planes have thier own definition for fuel inside the sim node. Also, what happened to the runway lighting? I'm a little out of touch since I've spent the last week (at least) installing Gentoo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
John Check writes: Also, what happened to the runway lighting? I'm a little out of touch since I've spent the last week (at least) installing Gentoo It should still be there, isn't it? I have been working on building more infrastructure for doing runway/approach lighting and working on using environment mapping to simulate directional lights which (except for VASI/PAPI) is working out very well. Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
On Friday 11 October 2002 12:15 am, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Is this a side effect of no longer getting the C172 defaults? That sounds like a reasonable deduction. I'm checking the rest of the planes to see if we need to gas up. I noticed the yasim planes have thier own definition for fuel inside the sim node. Well, the JSBSim planes have fuel tanks that specify capacity and fullness. We don't deliver planes with no fuel, far as I know. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] starting the c310u3a-3d
Whats the deal with the x24b fuel wise? That's missing a consumables section as are the shuttle and x15 ?? The JSBSim config files have fuel loaded for the X15, the X24B, the C310, the C172, etc. But NOT the shuttle (we just use it as a glider). I don't know what this consumables thing it, but JSBSim loads its aircraft with fuel in the JSBSim config files. If it has no fuel, the FlightGear is screwing around with the fuel, after the aircraft is already loaded by us. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
