[Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile - mathlib.c/test_state_machine
Just a heads-up. (MSVC10) Alan 3 mathlib.c 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(130): error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before 'type' 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 9-- Build started: Project: test_state_machine, Configuration: Release Win32 -- 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::stateByIndex(unsigned int)const (?stateByIndex@StateMachine@simgear@@QBE?AV?$SGSharedPtr@VState@StateMachine@simgearI@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class SGPropertyNode * __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::root(void) (?root@StateMachine@simgear@@QAEPAVSGPropertyNode@@XZ) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: void __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::update(double) (?update@StateMachine@simgear@@QAEXN@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: void __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::changeToState(class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State,bool) (?changeToState@StateMachine@simgear@@QAEXV?$SGSharedPtr@VState@StateMachine@simgear_N@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::findStateByName(class std::basic_stringchar,struct std::char_traitschar,class std::allocatorchar const )const (?findStateByName@StateMachine@simgear@@QBE?AV?$SGSharedPtr@VState@StateMachine@simgearABV?$basic_string@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@V?$allocator@D@2@@std@@@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: int __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::indexOfState(class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State)const (?indexOfState@StateMachine@simgear@@QBEHV?$SGSharedPtr@VState@StateMachine@simgear@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class std::basic_stringchar,struct std::char_traitschar,class std::allocatorchar __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::State::name(void)const (?name@State@StateMachine@simgear@@QBE?AV?$basic_string@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@V?$allocator@D@2@@std@@XZ) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::state(void)const (?state@StateMachine@simgear@@QBE?AV?$SGSharedPtr@VState@StateMachine@simgearXZ) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: void __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::init(void) (?init@StateMachine@simgear@@QAEXXZ) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: void __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::Transition::setTriggerCondition(class SGCondition *) (?setTriggerCondition@Transition@StateMachine@simgear@@QAEXPAVSGCondition@@@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: void __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::Transition::addSourceState(class simgear::StateMachine::State *) (?addSourceState@Transition@StateMachine@simgear@@QAEXPAVState@23@@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::Transition __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::createTransition(class std::basic_stringchar,struct std::char_traitschar,class std::allocatorchar const ,class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State) (?createTransition@StateMachine@simgear@@QAE?AV?$SGSharedPtr@VTransition@StateMachine@simgearABV?$basic_string@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@V?$allocator@D@2@@std@@V?$SGSharedPtr@VState@StateMachine@simgear@Z) referenced in function void __cdecl testBasic(void) (?testBasic@@YAXXZ) 9state_machine_test.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol public: class SGSharedPtrclass simgear::StateMachine::State __thiscall simgear::StateMachine::createState(class
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sync with JSBSim
Not sure this is a jbsim problem, but: Start Flightgear using fgrun at ksfo with c172P fly. normal flight. Exit Flightgear restart flightgear using fgrun Change airport to Lansing Muni try to fly. Plane behaves badly. My yoke does the opposite of usual I push in and nose raises, pull out and nose lowers Very odd. On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 22:48:28 +0100 Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: Hi, I have just synced the latest and greatest JSBSim into FlightGear. I flew a quick pattern with the SenecaII (the only JSBSim aircraft, I have a rating for) and found no quirks. Please check, if everything is still working in more complex aircraft. Greetings, Torsten -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile - mathlib.c/test_state_machine
De: Alan Teeder Just a heads-up. (MSVC10) Alan 3 mathlib.c 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(130): error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before 'type' 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc Regards, -Fred -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine
I think that we all know that, but unfortunately it is something that we have to live with - FG is multiplatform. Sorry - but please don´t blame the messenger. ;-( Alan -Original Message- From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:45 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine De: Alan Teeder Just a heads-up. (MSVC10) Alan 3 mathlib.c 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(130): error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before 'type' 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc Regards, -Fred -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine
On Wednesday 23 January 2013 13:48:44 Alan Teeder wrote: I think that we all know that, but unfortunately it is something that we have to live with - FG is multiplatform. Sorry - but please don´t blame the messenger. ;-( Wouldn't it be possible to compile this file in C++ mode? That's the course the Parrot project follows. -Original Message- From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:45 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine De: Alan Teeder Just a heads-up. (MSVC10) Alan 3 mathlib.c 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(130): error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before 'type' 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine
I think that we all know that Not sure as we can see it. Sorry - but please don´t blame the messenger. ;-( I agree we should live with that, and my intent wasn't to blame the messenger, only the careless committer ;) -Fred - Mail original - De: Alan Teeder ajtee...@v-twin.org.uk I think that we all know that, but unfortunately it is something that we have to live with - FG is multiplatform. Sorry - but please don´t blame the messenger. ;-( Alan -Original Message- From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:45 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine De: Alan Teeder Just a heads-up. (MSVC10) Alan 3 mathlib.c 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(130): error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before 'type' 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc Regards, -Fred -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile - mathlib.c/test_state_machine
On 23 Jan 2013, at 11:45, Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr wrote: Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc I've pushed a fixed now, I would have fixed sooner but all the Windows slaves on Jenkins are doing something very strange, so I can't see Windows build failures. I guess there's no upgrade to MSVC which adds C99 support? James -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgearwindows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine
The real problem is with the (lack off) standards compliance, and we all have views in that. (I trust that we are all too adult not to have a Windows/Gnu/Linux flame war on this forum. Leave that to other places. ) Alan -Original Message- From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:18 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgearwindows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine I think that we all know that Not sure as we can see it. Sorry - but please don´t blame the messenger. ;-( I agree we should live with that, and my intent wasn't to blame the messenger, only the careless committer ;) -Fred - Mail original - De: Alan Teeder ajtee...@v-twin.org.uk I think that we all know that, but unfortunately it is something that we have to live with - FG is multiplatform. Sorry - but please don´t blame the messenger. ;-( Alan -Original Message- From: Frederic Bouvier Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:45 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine De: Alan Teeder Just a heads-up. (MSVC10) Alan 3 mathlib.c 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(130): error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before 'type' 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier 3C:\FlightGear\simgear\simgear\nasal\mathlib.c(131): error C2065: 'range' : undeclared identifier Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc Regards, -Fred -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile - mathlib.c/test_state_machine
From: James Turner Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 3:03 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile - mathlib.c/test_state_machine On 23 Jan 2013, at 11:45, Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr wrote: Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc I've pushed a fixed now, I would have fixed sooner but all the Windows slaves on Jenkins are doing something very strange, so I can't see Windows build failures. I guess there's no upgrade to MSVC which adds C99 support? James --- If there is it is not part of the automatic “Windows Update”, so the best answer is no. Alan -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgearwindows compile- mathlib.c/test_state_machine
On 01/23/2013 04:08 PM, Alan Teeder wrote: (I trust that we are all too adult not to have a Windows/Gnu/Linux flame war on this forum. Leave that to other places. ) I can't remember the time this has happened, so no need to worry. Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - Hardware accelerated AeonWave and OpenAL for Windows and Linux -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simgear windows compile - mathlib.c/test_state_machine
Hi James, De: James Turner zakal...@mac.com On 23 Jan 2013, at 11:45, Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr wrote: Reminder to all : MSVC is not C99 Compliant. It doesn't like C++ style variable declaration inside the body of a bloc I've pushed a fixed now, I would have fixed sooner but all the Windows slaves on Jenkins are doing something very strange, so I can't see Windows build failures. Gene and I are working on this issue and it seems to be resolved. I guess there's no upgrade to MSVC which adds C99 support? I think MS don't want to support it. Regards, -Fred -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Color-shifts for textures
On Sunday, January 20, 2013 19:17:18 Renk Thorsten wrote: Well, if you ask in that way, then the question is: Do we need 10 different flavours of rock? If we want to look a scene roughly as it would in the location, the answer is yes - volcanic rock on Hawaii looks very different from Alpine rock in France. Rock in Iran looks very different again. If we're happy with one recognizable generic fast-rendering look for Flightgear, the answer is no. Personally I'm in the first camp. The problem is that there's always somebody unhappy. People are unhappy because the base package download size is large, so we'd not want any more textures. People are unhappy because FG doesn't look like FSX, so we'd want better texturing. People are unhappy because framerates are bad, so we'd want less GPU load. People are unhappy because insert name of game here has grass moving in the wind and FG has not, so we'd want more fancy effects. I'm trying to sort the reasonable from the unreasonable here and to identify genuine problems before they occur. The point is - less uniforms, more distinct textures render faster. Any rendering load can even be optional. What can not be optional is the size of your base package once I start adding textures to it. So it's a question of pain because a scene looks bad vs. pain because of large download vs. pain because of high performance needs. I see applications that care for stable 60 hz. If you get for one frame 59 hz they have too much jitter and look for an other renderer. What I really do not like is that people purely push in the direction they just like more. If you work sensibly, you can support both. If you want photorealistic pictures use a raytracer or do global illumination and use a cluster to do the pictures. But this is a *training* *flight* *simulation*. And as this having nice pictures is great to have, but if this is at cost realtime frame rates this is not acceptable at all. This is especially bad since it is possible to support both. It's just that enough loud people are after more glossy pictures and do not care for the initial purpose. At least this is my impression. Do not get me wrong. Especially the defered renderer is a huge step into a good direction. And this accounts for a lot of gloss and currently still for a lot of slowdown if being used. Not to talk about that implementation not running at well on some of my machines, but still, this is optional and really great to look at when it's working. And no, attacking the big base package by procedural textures exclusively is something that gets my clear NACK. If done sensibly, you can do a lot with shaders, and this even can look way better than a texture. This can be even faster than with textures. If you work sensibly and also care for performance I am all for this *as* *an* *alternative*. I personally live behind a very slow 1gbit DSL connect. So, I must be the one that is whining about the download size. But why am I able to manage this? If you want to have a smaller download, you can for example walk all textures that are in the base package and in the scenery, look if there are rgba textures with a constant equal to zero alpha channel. Then for textures with a needless alpha chanel, replace these with rgb textures. That would be a simple and effective candidate for improovement. That would help osg for unneeded transparancy sorting and that would help the gpu. Sure the git commit object will stay. But people wante to have a distributed revison control system. It was clear that these objects stay then. And please finally teach your mailer not to drop the reply reference! ... if you write just one less of these lenghty mails you should be able to find that knob. This goes via a webmail interface that is managed by my University's beloved IT department - please don't ask me any more, or I would tell a few really good stories... Suffice to say, it doesn't seem possible to do. In the overall scheme of things, this is a minor annoyance... You could use an other mail for example. And to me this is *really* annoying. Mathias -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Color-shifts for textures
Hi Mathias, Stepping in here just in case some context is getting lost in translation :). On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: What I really do not like is that people purely push in the direction they just like more. If you work sensibly, you can support both. If you want photorealistic pictures use a raytracer or do global illumination and use a cluster to do the pictures. But this is a *training* *flight* *simulation*. And as this having nice pictures is great to have, but if this is at cost realtime frame rates this is not acceptable at all. This is especially bad since it is possible to support both. It's just that enough loud people are after more glossy pictures and do not care for the initial purpose. At least this is my impression. The current proposal that Thorsten and myself have been thinking about is that all of this is optional on the quality slider on the rendering dialog. So we absolutely will be supporting both, and users can balance frame-rate against eye-candy, as they do today. Nevertheless, we obviously want to be as efficient as possible, and personally speaking I have insufficient knowledge of modern graphics pipelines to know where the bottlenecks reside. Does that address your concerns? -Stuart -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Color-shifts for textures
I see applications that care for stable 60 hz. If you get for one frame 59 hz they have too much jitter and look for an other renderer. What I really do not like is that people purely push in the direction they just like more. Beats me when this has ever been a problem. My first contact with FG was with 0.9.1, and I can make today's 2.11 look pretty much the same way at the simple expense of using the rendering GUI and switching eye candy off - which would probably result in something like 500 fps if I wouldn't throttle framerate to vsync (even my old GPU managed 180 fps or so with all eye candy off). There's still the non-shader skydome around, there are 2d clouds around, there's Basic Weather to manage them... it's not like we would discard all the basic options because we now have more shiny ones. (The problem related with that is of course an increased confusion of users with so many 'experimental' and 'legacy' schemes around...) If you work sensibly, you can support both. If you want photorealistic pictures use a raytracer or do global illumination and use a cluster to do the pictures. Well, it would depend on your hardware, no? My GTX 670M delivers me all the terrain details I want with stable 60 hz (as long as I do not use 3d clouds ). But this is a *training* *flight* *simulation*. And as this having nice pictures is great to have, but if this is at cost realtime frame rates this is not acceptable at all. See above - if you don't have the hardware, you can switch it off. I don't think what you say is a real problem in FG development. Some of us just don't think FG has to look like the last 10 years of 3d rendering developments didn't happen or like we all had integrated Intel chipsets. :-) And no, attacking the big base package by procedural textures exclusively is something that gets my clear NACK. If done sensibly, you can do a lot with shaders, and this even can look way better than a texture. This can be even faster than with textures. If you work sensibly and also care for performance I am all for this *as* *an* *alternative*. Seems to me we're not talking about the same thing. 1) all things discussed here are optional - not even regional texturing is a must-have, you can use the old-style scheme if you prefer 2) the question is not 'Do we replace the base package by a completely procedural approach?', the question is 'Do we add different-hued textures to the base package (taking up some disk space unconditionally) or do we do different hues by uniform vectors (taking up performance if someone uses the feature)? 3) we already have procedurally generated water (slower than texture, but better-looking) and snow (faster than superimposed snow texture, and better-looking) - both of which implemented optionally. So it's not like there wouldn't be some experience around :-) If you want to have a smaller download, you can for example walk all textures that are in the base package and in the scenery, look if there are rgba textures with a constant equal to zero alpha channel. Then for textures with a needless alpha chanel, replace these with rgb textures. That would be a simple and effective candidate for improovement. Yeah, except we just decided we want the terrain texture alpha channel to encode autum vegetation color shifts. So we're probably even going to add alpha channels to textures which didn't have one before. Look, personally I don't care at all about adding 10 MB to the download size. I'm trying to be considerate here, I'm trying to find out what others flag as the bottlenecks rather than simply going ahead and doing stuff and being told later 'But you should have considered...' at a point when things can't be changed easily. Unfortunately your feedback isn't really so helpful, because it sums up to 'better graphics cost performance and we don't want to waste it'. I've sort of known that, but I still want better graphics as long as my hardware plays along, and we have to agree to disagree about this direction then. You could use an other mail for example. And to me this is *really* annoying. Sorry, it's not meant personally. Believe me, one gets used to it. But having to use another mailer would be annoying for me. * Thorsten -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
