Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Hi Curtis, That would be an option to investigate. If Durk's code can be modified to somehow accept a set of limited commands from virtual pilots would be great. It is a shame that so many things advertised by commercial ATC TWR simulator are available on FG. It just needs someone that knows FG internals well enough to put everything together. It would be possible to not only use it for Actual controller training but many other areas related to the field. So any takers? As I have mentioned it does involve a nominal fee. Regards, Efty On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: > Hi Eftychios, > > Durk Talsma has developed a very extensive AI system for aircraft. > Aircraft can push back, taxi, take off, fly cross country routes, set up > an approach, land, taxi to the gate, and park. Flights are instantiated > automatically based on realistic schedules (airline, aircraft type, time, > departure airport and destination airport.) All this happens automatically > and the aircraft AI is smart enough to maintain proper separation and act > reasonably and realistically. It's not completely perfect, but it is > amazing in all that it does do very well. > > Perhaps the AI traffic system could be modified to include a mode where > pilots give basic commands to the AI planes rather than the planes flying > themselves. I'm sure there would be many new issues exposed with something > like this, but it might be an interesting direction to explore -- and with > the added benefit that the simulation could maintain a full traffic load of > reasonably behaving aircraft, even if you don't have enough human pilots on > a given day to command all the aircraft in the air. > > Just thinking out loud here ... :-) > > Curt. > > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Eftychios Eftychiou wrote: > >> Hi Roland, >> >> It seems the ATC-ML Model is geared towards Controlling other FG players. >> What is needed in a TWR simulator is the controller to give instructions >> to 1 or more pilots which will control multiple a/c. The pilot will only >> input limited instructions to the plane and the plane should act >> accordingly. It will not be expected of the pilot to land the plane or take >> off. >> >> From my limited knowledge of FG what needs to be done is the following >> >> a) A UI to Instantiate Planes and control them as per the list below. >> This perhaps can be done by using JSBSIM to simulate their flight and send >> the data to an MP server. Same UI can be used to control vehicles on the >> movement area. >> b) Another instance will connect to the MP server and use a simple TOWER >> A/C, no need for radar screens in TWR Control. Most work is done visually >> and the controller needs to scan the area continuously. I believe FG can be >> configured to provide a 360 view >> c) After the plane is established on final it should be able to land on >> its own with no user intervention. >> >> I hope now it is clearer. If someone is interested then please email me >> and we can discuss this further. >> >> Regards, >> Efty >> >> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:49 AM, Roland Häder wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 01:05 +0200, Eftychios Eftychiou wrote: >>> > Hi Roland, >>> > >>> > What I am proposing is a Tower Control Simulator for the Controller >>> and not >>> > the Pilot. >>> > Typically in such cases one or more "pilots" will control several >>> airplanes >>> > according to instructions provide to them from the controller. >>> > Depending on the type of control different instructions might be given >>> and >>> > so forth. >>> > >>> > Some of the features should be the following >>> > a) ability to control multiple airplanes >>> > By Control I mean the following but not limited to heading, cleared >>> > altitude/level, rate of climb/descent, heading to a waypoint, instruct >>> > plane to perform a specific instrument approach procedure or proceed >>> > visually if requested by pilot, force a go-around, the plane should be >>> able >>> > to land on its own. >>> > b) ability to control vehicles in the airport, ie simulate runway >>> > incursions , maintenance work etc >>> > c) simulate emergencies unusual situations ie, flapless approach, >>> engine >>> > failure, bird strike etc >>> > >>> > Anyway the above is not a complete list of what a proper tower >>> simulator >>> > should be from the controllers
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Hi Roland, It seems the ATC-ML Model is geared towards Controlling other FG players. What is needed in a TWR simulator is the controller to give instructions to 1 or more pilots which will control multiple a/c. The pilot will only input limited instructions to the plane and the plane should act accordingly. It will not be expected of the pilot to land the plane or take off. >From my limited knowledge of FG what needs to be done is the following a) A UI to Instantiate Planes and control them as per the list below. This perhaps can be done by using JSBSIM to simulate their flight and send the data to an MP server. Same UI can be used to control vehicles on the movement area. b) Another instance will connect to the MP server and use a simple TOWER A/C, no need for radar screens in TWR Control. Most work is done visually and the controller needs to scan the area continuously. I believe FG can be configured to provide a 360 view c) After the plane is established on final it should be able to land on its own with no user intervention. I hope now it is clearer. If someone is interested then please email me and we can discuss this further. Regards, Efty On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:49 AM, Roland Häder wrote: > On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 01:05 +0200, Eftychios Eftychiou wrote: > > Hi Roland, > > > > What I am proposing is a Tower Control Simulator for the Controller and > not > > the Pilot. > > Typically in such cases one or more "pilots" will control several > airplanes > > according to instructions provide to them from the controller. > > Depending on the type of control different instructions might be given > and > > so forth. > > > > Some of the features should be the following > > a) ability to control multiple airplanes > > By Control I mean the following but not limited to heading, cleared > > altitude/level, rate of climb/descent, heading to a waypoint, instruct > > plane to perform a specific instrument approach procedure or proceed > > visually if requested by pilot, force a go-around, the plane should be > able > > to land on its own. > > b) ability to control vehicles in the airport, ie simulate runway > > incursions , maintenance work etc > > c) simulate emergencies unusual situations ie, flapless approach, engine > > failure, bird strike etc > > > > Anyway the above is not a complete list of what a proper tower simulator > > should be from the controllers perspective but as a proof of concept i > > would say that A and B are a must. > > > > Regards, > > Efty > Yes, maybe most of those features are already implemented in the ATC-ML > model. Please take a look at these screen shots which I made with latest > GIT: > > http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-023.png > http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-024.png > http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-026.png > > It may not show all features, but it shows e.g. that you handle multiple > airplanes. So maybe just this "aircraft" needs some extending/expanding > or some missing features being added and not a whole simulation based in > FGFS needs to be written. > > The controls in 023.png are for sending pre-defined messages to a pilot > (or some to all airmen). The last shows (upper right corner) a screen > when you have clicked on one pilot name (from the list in 023.png) or on > empty space (e.g. to send it to all airmen). > > Regards, > Roland > > > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Hi Roland, What I am proposing is a Tower Control Simulator for the Controller and not the Pilot. Typically in such cases one or more "pilots" will control several airplanes according to instructions provide to them from the controller. Depending on the type of control different instructions might be given and so forth. Some of the features should be the following a) ability to control multiple airplanes By Control I mean the following but not limited to heading, cleared altitude/level, rate of climb/descent, heading to a waypoint, instruct plane to perform a specific instrument approach procedure or proceed visually if requested by pilot, force a go-around, the plane should be able to land on its own. b) ability to control vehicles in the airport, ie simulate runway incursions , maintenance work etc c) simulate emergencies unusual situations ie, flapless approach, engine failure, bird strike etc Anyway the above is not a complete list of what a proper tower simulator should be from the controllers perspective but as a proof of concept i would say that A and B are a must. Regards, Efty On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Roland Häder wrote: > Aren't the ATC models not enough? E.g. the ATC-ML [1] which is enhanced > by "jomo" is quite good. > > Regards, > Roland > > [1]: http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/index.html > > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Dear All, I am looking for a developer(s) to design/implement a proof of concept ATC tower simulator using FG. There quite a few commercial solutions( http://www.micronav.co.uk/products/brochures.htm ) out there and I think it would be viable for FG to be used in this field( Air traffic controller Tower training) successfully and with reduced cost. There is a nominal payment for the developer, nothing much, since this is just a proof of concept and a way to perhaps kick-start interest in the project. Of-course all code will be open source and any modifications to FG will be submitted to the project for review. If you are interested or have in mind someone that might be interested please let me know so we can discuss this further. Regards, Efty -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATC client
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Martin Spott wrote: > Eftychios Eftychiou wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Martin Spott >wrote: > > >> I'm surprised to read that they're actually now having source code on > >> offer, do you have a pointer to the code ? > >> > >> You will need to sign up at http://forge.osor.eu/projects/albadisp/ and > > join the project to get the code. > > Mmmmh it's not my understanding of "Open Source Community" when > you have to sign a license agreement, in which you basically waive all > your rights, before you're permitted to _read_ the source code. > It's also quite interesting that they care that much about patenting > clauses, is their software covered by patents they don't want to share > with the public ? The code is there and available released under GNU 2. > > [...] I just suggested that there might > > not be a need to re-invent the wheel when there is solution out there > > already. > > Exactly my intention - considering the fact that OpenRADAR had seen > life years before SkyGuide made their first announcement ;-) > As I mentioned earlier, they are two different animals. I am not suggesting dropping openradar altogether however adding functionality to FG based on industry standards would be beneficial to the project overall. > > Cheers, >Martin. > -- > Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! > -- > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATC client
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Martin Spott wrote: > Eftychios Eftychiou wrote: > > > There is already an open source radar display screen > > http://www.albatross.aero/ > > I'm surprised to read that they're actually now having source code on > offer, do you have a pointer to the code ? > > You will need to sign up at http://forge.osor.eu/projects/albadisp/ and join the project to get the code. > > It can take as input asterix formated data ( > > http://www.eurocontrol.int/asterix/public/subsite_homepage/homepage.html > ) > > Well, OpenRADAR is going the opposite direction: It already provides > FlightGear MP (plus HLA RTI via a side project), ASTERIX could be done > as well by changing swapping another interface in ;-) > I'm surprised to realize that a lot of people don't spare effort for > discussing new ATC clients while a slightly rudimentary but rather > functional system is already available > > I am not sure what you mean by the above. I did not try openradar with FG, but tried out albatross which is indeed a professional grade radar display. In any case albatross and openradar are two different animals. I just suggested that there might not be a need to re-invent the wheel when there is solution out there already. > Cheers, >Martin. > -- > Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! > -- > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > Regards, Efty -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATC client
There is already an open source radar display screen http://www.albatross.aero/ It can take as input asterix formated data ( http://www.eurocontrol.int/asterix/public/subsite_homepage/homepage.html) If FG or MPserver can provide an asterisk stream then it can be easily fed to albatross. Regards, Efty On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Pep Ribal wrote: > > El 29/11/10 20:44, Martin Spott escribió: > > Pep Ribal wrote: > > > >> I've seen that there are plans to develop an ATC client for Flightgear. > >> > >> I'm very interested in this profect, and so I'm offering my help. > >> Whoever is involved, please get in touch. > > > http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/FlightGear_Newsletter_October_2010#OpenRadar > > > > Cheers, > > Martin. > > I would gladly mantain, or port to C++. But who can I contact? There's > no contact information available in the websites. > > Regards. > > Pep. > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ATC Tower Simulator
Hello Everyone, I have been following the list discussion for the past few days and went through the archives to see to what extent and exactly what FG supports in regards to ATC simulation. To my understanding unless there were other posts which I missed FG only supports ATC through the ATC plane and communication with real pilot players. I would like to investigate the posibility of using FG as a tower simulator that can be used to train ATCOs. There are numerous requirements to the above but initially it should support the following a) Ability to issue commands to simulated traffic. To my understanding simulated traffic can be accomplished via the AI logic, however there is no way to talk to the AI module and innstruct it eg to climb/descend, change heading etc. b) Ability for multiple users to control a subset of the above simulated traffic. Eg 10 aircraft in the vicinity cannot be controlled by a single person. c) Ability to easily create scenarios to be used for training d) Stop/Start/Accelerate simulation e) Ability to add traffic during the simulation f) Simulate emergencies such as landing gear problems, engine failures etc g) Ability to define the a/c ground movement folowing specific instructions before after landing(guess could be part of a) h) 360 view (supported pls confirm) i) Tower controller (ATC a/c) should hear landing/departing a/c I guess the above would be a start. My intention is to investigate the possibility of using/modifying FG to support the above. I am willing and able to assist in the effort of modifying FG to support some if not all of the above. What I am asking is a fruitful discussion regarding the feasibility of the above. Eg Could this be accomplished via the mp server? Ie have another simulator connecting to mp and just sending position reports? Or it would be easier to just enhance the AI module to accept manual commands via an eg telnet session? Regards, Eftychios -- Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies. http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
