Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Hi Durk Are departure/arrival times specified in GMT or local times? Created some UAL flights from KSFO to KDFW and KPHX with departure times of 12:10 and 12:15 once a day. started FG with a time of noon, a number of AI aircraft were created (repeat time was WEEK) at the gates but after that nothing happened, no pushback, taxi, departure... hit the time warp button and went through a couple of days and still nothing moved. FLIGHT United0908 IFR 0123456 23:05 KORD06:10 EHAM 360 777UAL FLIGHT United0909 IFR 0123456 09:15 EHAM18:00 KORD 360 777UAL FLIGHT United946 IFR 0123456 13:17 KIAD05:00 EHAM 360 767UAL FLIGHT United947 IFR 0123456 10:25 EHAM19:08 KIAD 360 767UAL FLIGHT United1000 IFR 0123456 12:15 KSFO23:55 KDFW 370 777UAL FLIGHT United0725 IFR 0123456 12:10 KSFO22:50 KPHX 360 767UAL Used the scripting tools you called out in the wiki site to create xml UAL.xml, ai and traffic-manager were enabled and proportion value was set to five. Do I need to schedule a flight from the aircraft's home field to KSFO to arrive prior to departure time so as to "position" and aircraft at KSFO that can then be assigned to the schedule or create some AI models with a home field of KSFO? Any suggestions where to look? John On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 07:18 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: > > Thanks for the comments by the way, I hope to add a more conceptual > introduction, as written above to the wiki page. Please let me know if you > have any further questions. > -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Hi Durk, Thank you for the expanded explanation. It's making a lot more sense to me now. :-) Have a few more questions, but for now need to spend some time/effort to build a scenario using the wiki tools. Regards John -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Hi John, On Monday, July 26, 2010 04:47:41 pm John Wojnaroski wrote: > Thanks Durk, > > I was looking at the wiki page and that was helpful. > > Still trying to decipher what launches the traffic. Is it a case where > the traffic manager is instantiated and automagically searches and > creates AI objects? That being the case, then the demo xml files in the > AI directory while still functional are NOT the way to create a > scenario. It wasn't clear on the wiki page how that all ties together; > i.e. will the traffic manager create and position AI aircraft on the > ramp if KSFO is specified as the departure airport. Is there some time > span prior to departure that the specified aircraft object will be > created, start and taxi to meet the departure time. In essence, there are three ways, in which you can drive AI models; 1) through the multiplayer system; 2) by means of a script, and 3) trhough the traffic manager. When you use the script (i.e. the demo xml) files, you have extremely tight control over the AI model, but then the AIModel in question won't really respond intelligently to the environment (in the sense of interacting with other traffic). The traffic manager is, on the other hand, a more global level of description. You just specify which aircraft are available, and which flights need to be done, and the system itself tries to resolve all the routing, ATC, etc etc. The way it works, is globally this: the traffic manager reeds all the aircraft and flight information from the traffic xml datafiles. Then , once FlightGear's main loop starts running, it iterates over over each aircraft entry (at a rate of one per frame), and it seeks to find work for it. For, this, it searches through the list of available flights, and assigns the first one that has the same key as the aircraft itself. Flight are rankordered chronologically, so the first available flight is closest to the current time. If a flight is entirely in the past, it's departure and arrival time are updated the the repeat time factor, until it is in the future again. During flight assignment, a whole chunk of flights are assigned to the aircraft, such that the next flight needs to depart from the same airport as where the previous flight arrived. If the current flight for a particular aircraft is partially in the past (departure time in past, arrival time in the future), an AI model is created in air, along with a flightplan that will allow it to finish its flight. If both the departure and arrival time are still in the future, the AIModel will be placed at the airport,. > > In the real world, arriving aircraft taxi to the gate, passengers > deplane, and the bird is serviced and scheduled for the next flight. > While that would be an awesome feature, I gather that is not how the AI > world works. Intriguing idea though, don't you think? Create a list of > available equipment by carrier at a particular airport that is depleted > as aircraft are scheduled/assigned and replenished as aircraft arrive > with some delta time to represent service time. That would be nice, but I'm just not ready to tackle that. ... > > Wow, that's a lot of work and data you created for the AI world! > Thanks for the comments by the way, I hope to add a more conceptual introduction, as written above to the wiki page. Please let me know if you have any further questions. Cheers, Durk -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Hi John I have never tried to impliment ramp activity but I think it is done by using the scenario code like was used for the tanker that used to fly in a circle over KSFO. I maybe wrong and people who know may chip in. Cheers Innis > Thanks Innis, > > Think that answers my earlier question, in that all the airport activity > can be created via the AI traffic manager and the tools on the wiki > page. Then how would one create ramp activity for vehicles other that > aircraft (tows, fuelers, baggage, etc) or is that just some wild raving > idea on my part and not in the current build ;-) > > I'll examine the traffic files and correlate that with the action at > KSFO > > Thanks again > John _ New, Used, Demo, Dealer or Private? Find it at CarPoint.com.au http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/206222968/direct/01/-- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Thanks Innis, Think that answers my earlier question, in that all the airport activity can be created via the AI traffic manager and the tools on the wiki page. Then how would one create ramp activity for vehicles other that aircraft (tows, fuelers, baggage, etc) or is that just some wild raving idea on my part and not in the current build ;-) I'll examine the traffic files and correlate that with the action at KSFO Thanks again John On Mon, 2010-07-26 at 15:24 +0800, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi John > The traffic you see a KSFO is mine the Air Canada aircraft are in the > AI > folder under traffic/A/ACA and the Cathay are under traffic/C/CPA > almost > at the end.They are supposed to move but there are so few of them > that > you need to be lucky to see them move.I think there is a KLM or two > of Durk's too.When I was doing the traffic for KSFO there were other > things going on so I never got anywhere near finishing the traffic > files. > > Cheers > Innis > > > > > Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active? > Looking > > at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out. Haven't tried > to > > walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data > > structures. > > > > When starting at KSFO the "default" seems to be four 737's from Air > > Canada and two 747s at the south end of the terminal, but can't > locate > > the xml file or comand option that stipulates this start condition. > > > > are those active AI models or just static objects placed as > eye-candy? > > > > Any hints would be appreciated ;-) > > > > John W. > > > > __ > Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live? > -- > The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the > Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share > of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? > http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Thanks Durk, I was looking at the wiki page and that was helpful. Still trying to decipher what launches the traffic. Is it a case where the traffic manager is instantiated and automagically searches and creates AI objects? That being the case, then the demo xml files in the AI directory while still functional are NOT the way to create a scenario. It wasn't clear on the wiki page how that all ties together; i.e. will the traffic manager create and position AI aircraft on the ramp if KSFO is specified as the departure airport. Is there some time span prior to departure that the specified aircraft object will be created, start and taxi to meet the departure time. In the real world, arriving aircraft taxi to the gate, passengers deplane, and the bird is serviced and scheduled for the next flight. While that would be an awesome feature, I gather that is not how the AI world works. Intriguing idea though, don't you think? Create a list of available equipment by carrier at a particular airport that is depleted as aircraft are scheduled/assigned and replenished as aircraft arrive with some delta time to represent service time. Wow, that's a lot of work and data you created for the AI world! I'll take a look at EHAM. Are the old demo files still available? Thanks for the info John On Mon, 2010-07-26 at 07:16 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: > Hi John, > > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:06:14 am John Wojnaroski wrote: > > Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active? Looking > > at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out. Haven't tried to > > walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data > > structures. > > Yep, it's still active. :-) The code's undergone substantial revision about > two years ago, which is why there are still a few chunks commented out. > > Re, the Air Canada 737s, my memory of their origin is a bit rusty to me. > Originally, we had a fairly dense demo arond KSFO (thanks to Innis > Cunnigham), > but after the revision, I build a new demo, highlighting the lastest > features, > that was centered around my then hometown of Amsterdam, NL. Try for example > fgfs --airport=EHAM --runway=24 --com1=121.7 and wait a few seconds for > traffic to initialize. > > For additional information on building traffic files yourself, please have a > look at: > > http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8612 > > or > > http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Interactive_Traffic#Tools > > or, more generally: > > http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Interactive_Traffic > > > Cheers, > Durk > > -- > The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the > Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share > of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? > http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Hi John The traffic you see a KSFO is mine the Air Canada aircraft are in the AI folder under traffic/A/ACA and the Cathay are under traffic/C/CPA almost at the end.They are supposed to move but there are so few of them that you need to be lucky to see them move.I think there is a KLM or two of Durk's too.When I was doing the traffic for KSFO there were other things going on so I never got anywhere near finishing the traffic files. Cheers Innis > > Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active? Looking > at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out. Haven't tried to > walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data > structures. > > When starting at KSFO the "default" seems to be four 737's from Air > Canada and two 747s at the south end of the terminal, but can't locate > the xml file or comand option that stipulates this start condition. > > are those active AI models or just static objects placed as eye-candy? > > Any hints would be appreciated ;-) > > John W. _ Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/-- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Hi John, On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:06:14 am John Wojnaroski wrote: > Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active? Looking > at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out. Haven't tried to > walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data > structures. Yep, it's still active. :-) The code's undergone substantial revision about two years ago, which is why there are still a few chunks commented out. Re, the Air Canada 737s, my memory of their origin is a bit rusty to me. Originally, we had a fairly dense demo arond KSFO (thanks to Innis Cunnigham), but after the revision, I build a new demo, highlighting the lastest features, that was centered around my then hometown of Amsterdam, NL. Try for example fgfs --airport=EHAM --runway=24 --com1=121.7 and wait a few seconds for traffic to initialize. For additional information on building traffic files yourself, please have a look at: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8612 or http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Interactive_Traffic#Tools or, more generally: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Interactive_Traffic Cheers, Durk -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] AI and Traffic Manager
Could someone tell me if the AI and traffic manager are active? Looking at the source, seems a lot of code is commented out. Haven't tried to walk thru the code just yet to figure out logic and flow and data structures. When starting at KSFO the "default" seems to be four 737's from Air Canada and two 747s at the south end of the terminal, but can't locate the xml file or comand option that stipulates this start condition. are those active AI models or just static objects placed as eye-candy? Any hints would be appreciated ;-) John W. -- The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;226879339;13503038;l? http://clk.atdmt.com/CRS/go/247765532/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
