Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
On Friday 06 July 2007 18:03, John Denker wrote: 1) Where I'm coming from: Different people are interested in different parts of FlightGear. I consider it a strength of the project that it can be put to disparate purposes. I'm sure we all agree about that, anyway. 1a) As for me personally, and for more than a few others, there is interest in using it as a complex-aircraft procedures trainer, and as an IFR procedures trainer. I'm sure virtually all of us want FG to be suitable for that purpose. YMMV, but for my purposes the whole Doppler-shift thing is unhelpful. But there's no reason whatsoever for it to be so, that I can imagine; it's in everyone's interest that it works properly. The cases where the existing Doppler model works are features I don't use, while features I do use are cases where the existing Doppler modle fails. For example: -- It is comical that the ILS middle marker is strongly shifted. -- It is not so comical that the ATIS broadast is redshifted into unintelligibility. These bugs actually have been worked out already. The necessary fixes have been made and with Maik's last patch (which was posted to the dev list, I'm pretty sure) I'm not aware of any significant problems. Maybe you could try that? I expect it will be committed soon, anyway. Cheers, AJ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
On 07/06/2007 01:08 PM, AJ MacLeod wrote: These bugs actually have been worked out already. Excellent! The necessary fixes have been made and with Maik's last patch (which was posted to the dev list, I'm pretty sure) I'm not aware of any significant problems. Maybe you could try that? I expect it will be committed soon, anyway. It's been ten days now with no CVS-commit nor even any discussion of a CVS-commit AFAICT. If you send me the appropriate patch [off list or otherwise] I'll be happy to try it. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
1) Where I'm coming from: Different people are interested in different parts of FlightGear. I consider it a strength of the project that it can be put to disparate purposes. 1a) As for me personally, and for more than a few others, there is interest in using it as a complex-aircraft procedures trainer, and as an IFR procedures trainer. 1b) If you want to use it for other things, that's fine. 2) Back on 06/26/2007 03:06 PM, Jon Stockill wrote: With a cvs build checked out about half an hour ago I've just noticed something very strange - with external views the doppler shift appears to be related to the view angle rather than the approach speed. If you select the chase view then you'll find that the sound is extremely slow from behind the aircraft, and ridiculously fast from in front. This also still seems to affect the radio chatter, resulting in some highly comical, but not too realistic radio messages. I did not participate in the previous discussion of this topic. The thread died ten days ago in a pillar of flame. The program bugs, however, have lived on. YMMV, but for my purposes the whole Doppler-shift thing is unhelpful. The cases where the existing Doppler model works are features I don't use, while features I do use are cases where the existing Doppler modle fails. For example: -- It is comical that the ILS middle marker is strongly shifted. -- It is not so comical that the ATIS broadast is redshifted into unintelligibility. Therefore I ask: Is there a nice way for the pilot, if he chooses, to disable Doppler effects, at least until the bugs are worked out? Perhaps a property that can be set? I grepped through the current property tree and didn't notice such a thing. 3) See item 1. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Am Freitag 06 Juli 2007 19:27 schrieb John Denker: It's been ten days now with no CVS-commit nor even any discussion of a CVS-commit AFAICT. That's definitely not true (generally spoken). Which branch are you using? Thomas -- PhD Student, Dept. Animal Physiology, HU Berlin Tel +49 30 2093 6173, Fax +49 30 2093 6375 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
On 07/06/2007 01:50 PM, Thomas Förster wrote: That's definitely not true (generally spoken). Which branch are you using? CVS OSG, up to date as of late yesterday (the 5th). Has something happened since then? With this version I observe: -- Middle marker audio is strongly shifted. -- ATIS audio is strongly shifted. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Am Freitag 06 Juli 2007 20:33 schrieb John Denker: On 07/06/2007 01:50 PM, Thomas Förster wrote: That's definitely not true (generally spoken). Which branch are you using? CVS OSG, up to date as of late yesterday (the 5th). Has something happened since then? Hmm, rereading your post this probably was a misunderstanding. You were referring to doppler effect related commits, weren't you? Thomas -- PhD Student, Dept. Animal Physiology, HU Berlin Tel +49 30 2093 6173, Fax +49 30 2093 6375 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
On Friday 06 July 2007 18:27, John Denker wrote:
It's been ten days now with no CVS-commit nor even any
discussion of a CVS-commit AFAICT.
That's probably about right. I and a few others on IRC were testing various
patches for Maik for a while... I thought that the results of that made it to
the devel list, but to remove any doubt about, I'll attach (what I think is)
the last one here.
If you send me the appropriate patch [off list or otherwise]
I'll be happy to try it.
If I'm not mistaken, attached is the patch I'm currently using and I haven't
noticed any problems with other than the slightly odd (but expected, and no
doubt correct) effect one gets if one moves the view really quickly when in
external view.
Let us know if you find otherwise...
Cheers,
AJ
Index: sound/sample_openal.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/SimGear-0.3/source/simgear/sound/sample_openal.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.27
diff -u -p -r1.27 sample_openal.cxx
--- sound/sample_openal.cxx 21 Jun 2007 21:46:21 - 1.27
+++ sound/sample_openal.cxx 28 Jun 2007 19:22:14 -
@@ -75,12 +75,17 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample() :
reference_dist(500.0),
max_dist(3000.),
loop(AL_FALSE),
-playing(false)
+#ifdef USE_SOFTWARE_DOPPLER
+doppler_pitch_factor(1),
+doppler_volume_factor(1),
+#endif
+playing(false),
+no_Doppler_effect(true)
{
}
// constructor
-SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char *path, const char *file) :
+SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char *path, const char *file , bool _no_Doppler_effect ) :
buffer(0),
source(0),
pitch(1.0),
@@ -88,8 +93,13 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char
reference_dist(500.0),
max_dist(3000.),
loop(AL_FALSE),
-playing(false)
-{
+#ifdef USE_SOFTWARE_DOPPLER
+doppler_pitch_factor(1),
+doppler_volume_factor(1),
+#endif
+playing(false),
+no_Doppler_effect(_no_Doppler_effect)
+{
SGPath samplepath( path );
if ( strlen(file) ) {
samplepath.append( file );
@@ -145,7 +155,7 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char
}
// constructor
-SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( unsigned char *_data, int len, int _freq ) :
+SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( unsigned char *_data, int len, int _freq , bool _no_Doppler_effect ) :
buffer(0),
source(0),
pitch(1.0),
@@ -153,7 +163,12 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( unsigned c
reference_dist(500.0),
max_dist(3000.),
loop(AL_FALSE),
-playing(false)
+#ifdef USE_SOFTWARE_DOPPLER
+doppler_pitch_factor(1),
+doppler_volume_factor(1),
+#endif
+playing(false),
+no_Doppler_effect(_no_Doppler_effect)
{
SG_LOG( SG_GENERAL, SG_DEBUG, In memory sounds sample );
@@ -247,14 +262,23 @@ SGSoundSample::bind_source() {
}
alSourcei( source, AL_BUFFER, buffer );
+#ifndef USE_SOFTWARE_DOPPLER
alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, pitch );
alSourcef( source, AL_GAIN, volume );
+#else
+print_openal_error(bind_sources return);
+alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, pitch *doppler_pitch_factor );
+alGetError(); //ignore if the pitch is clamped by the driver
+alSourcef( source, AL_GAIN, volume *doppler_volume_factor );
+#endif
alSourcefv( source, AL_POSITION, source_pos );
alSourcefv( source, AL_DIRECTION, direction );
alSourcef( source, AL_CONE_INNER_ANGLE, inner );
alSourcef( source, AL_CONE_OUTER_ANGLE, outer );
alSourcef( source, AL_CONE_OUTER_GAIN, outergain);
+#ifdef USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER
alSourcefv( source, AL_VELOCITY, source_vel );
+#endif
alSourcei( source, AL_LOOPING, loop );
alSourcei( source, AL_SOURCE_RELATIVE, AL_TRUE );
@@ -273,8 +297,13 @@ SGSoundSample::set_pitch( double p ) {
if ( p 2.0 ) { p = 2.0; }
pitch = p;
if (playing) {
+#ifndef USE_SOFTWARE_DOPPLER
alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, pitch );
print_openal_error(set_pitch);
+#else
+alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, pitch * doppler_pitch_factor );
+alGetError(); //ignore if the pitch is clamped by the driver
+#endif
}
}
@@ -282,7 +311,11 @@ void
SGSoundSample::set_volume( double v ) {
volume = v;
if (playing) {
+#ifndef USE_SOFTWARE_DOPPLER
alSourcef( source, AL_GAIN, volume );
+#else
+alSourcef( source, AL_GAIN, volume * doppler_volume_factor );
+#endif
print_openal_error(set_volume);
}
}
@@ -313,6 +346,7 @@ SGSoundSample::set_source_pos( ALfloat *
sgAddVec3( final_pos, source_pos, offset_pos );
alSourcefv( source, AL_POSITION, final_pos );
+print_openal_error(set_source_pos);
}
}
@@ -327,6 +361,7 @@ SGSoundSample::set_offset_pos( ALfloat *
sgAddVec3( final_pos, source_pos, offset_pos );
alSourcefv( source, AL_POSITION, final_pos );
+print_openal_error(set_offset_pos);
}
}
@@ -350,13 +385,88 @@ SGSoundSample::set_orientation( ALfloat
}
void
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
On 07/06/2007 02:56 PM, Thomas Förster wrote: Hmm, rereading your post this probably was a misunderstanding. You were referring to doppler effect related commits, weren't you? Yes. Perhaps I clipped too much context; I thought the Subject: line would be sufficient contex. Sorry. To repeat: I am using CVS OSG, up to date as of late yesterday (the 5th). With this version I observe: -- Middle marker audio is strongly shifted. -- ATIS audio is strongly shifted. Please tell me where to find whatever patches are needed to deal with these bugs. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Hi John, I posted the patch which should fix your problem on June 1st, 22:16 (German time). (If you do not have archived this EMail: just drop me a note, I will email it to you). I think the patch will be commited soon. But I am modifying files, which are not mine, therefore it is ok, to give the file-owner some time. On IRC we discussed to commit it tomorrow if nobody complains up to then. Maik P.S.: for plib-branch-users: June 3rd, 23:21 John Denker schrieb am 06.07.2007 21:04: On 07/06/2007 02:56 PM, Thomas Förster wrote: Hmm, rereading your post this probably was a misunderstanding. You were referring to doppler effect related commits, weren't you? Yes. Perhaps I clipped too much context; I thought the Subject: line would be sufficient contex. Sorry. To repeat: I am using CVS OSG, up to date as of late yesterday (the 5th). With this version I observe: -- Middle marker audio is strongly shifted. -- ATIS audio is strongly shifted. Please tell me where to find whatever patches are needed to deal with these bugs. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Hi, ups. Is it really July? Please replace June by July in my last post. Thanks to John. Maik Maik Justus schrieb am 06.07.2007 21:23: Hi John, I posted the patch which should fix your problem on June 1st, 22:16 (German time). (If you do not have archived this EMail: just drop me a note, I will email it to you). I think the patch will be commited soon. But I am modifying files, which are not mine, therefore it is ok, to give the file-owner some time. On IRC we discussed to commit it tomorrow if nobody complains up to then. Maik P.S.: for plib-branch-users: June 3rd, 23:21 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
I got the .diff from Maik Justus. I merged it into the _Sport Model_. It works fine; ATIS and marker beacons are no longer Doppler shifted. In addition to the two files patched by the .diff, I had to make some trivial and obvious edits in two other files, to bring them into compliance with the new interface. If anybody wants to see the details they can pull the _Sport Model_ and do a git-diff. For details on that, see http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11530.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Hello Martin, just didn't got the point of my posting. Maik Martin Spott schrieb am 27.06.2007 01:14: Maik Justus wrote: [...] But I only will start to work on that patch if there is a chance to get it into cvs. Therefore I will wait, if the windows patch will be accepted. The original author of the OpenAL publicly objects implementing things in FlightGear that OpenAL usually should take care of and apparently the issue with OpenAL is still open. How do you _dare_ to expect people to commit your windows patch !? Such behaviour is highly disrespectful. Please comply with the same measures of fairness that you expect from other people (on this list) and refrain from such attempts unless the OpenAL issue is closed. Martin. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
With a cvs build checked out about half an hour ago I've just noticed something very strange - with external views the doppler shift appears to be related to the view angle rather than the approach speed. If you select the chase view then you'll find that the sound is extremely slow from behind the aircraft, and ridiculously fast from in front. This also still seems to affect the radio chatter, resulting in some highly comical, but not too realistic radio messages. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Hi Jon,
thanks for pointing that out. And thanks to you and AJ for the debugging
on IRC.
Here is a patch (the same you already got via EMail (ok, one debug
message is different)), which could fix it. If the bug is still present,
please comment out line 56 (#define USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER should work) in
file simgear\sound\sample_openal.hxx to use the own calculations.
This patch has some debug code and is not intended to go into cvs.
Due to pitch-limits on older OpenAL versions I am thinking of a patch
for these versions. The pitch limitation on old OpenAL versions limit
the Doppler effect depending on the pitch value without Doppler effect,
which could sound odd on some aircrafts. But I only will start to work
on that patch if there is a chance to get it into cvs. Therefore I will
wait, if the windows patch will be accepted.
(It could be, that you get warnings about pitch values 2. Even some
OpenAL1.1 versions seem to be limited in pitch while the OpenAL1.1
specification says they aren't)
Maik
Jon Stockill schrieb am 26.06.2007 21:06:
With a cvs build checked out about half an hour ago I've just noticed
something very strange - with external views the doppler shift appears
to be related to the view angle rather than the approach speed. If you
select the chase view then you'll find that the sound is extremely slow
from behind the aircraft, and ridiculously fast from in front. This also
still seems to affect the radio chatter, resulting in some highly
comical, but not too realistic radio messages.
Jon
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Index: sound/sample_openal.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/SimGear-0.3/source/simgear/sound/sample_openal.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.27
diff -u -p -r1.27 sample_openal.cxx
--- sound/sample_openal.cxx 21 Jun 2007 21:46:21 - 1.27
+++ sound/sample_openal.cxx 26 Jun 2007 21:57:20 -
@@ -75,12 +75,17 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample() :
reference_dist(500.0),
max_dist(3000.),
loop(AL_FALSE),
-playing(false)
+#ifndef USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER
+doppler_pitch_factor(1),
+doppler_volume_factor(1),
+#endif
+playing(false),
+no_Doppler_effect(true)
{
}
// constructor
-SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char *path, const char *file) :
+SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char *path, const char *file , bool
_no_Doppler_effect ) :
buffer(0),
source(0),
pitch(1.0),
@@ -88,7 +93,12 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char
reference_dist(500.0),
max_dist(3000.),
loop(AL_FALSE),
-playing(false)
+#ifndef USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER
+doppler_pitch_factor(1),
+doppler_volume_factor(1),
+#endif
+playing(false),
+no_Doppler_effect(_no_Doppler_effect)
{
SGPath samplepath( path );
if ( strlen(file) ) {
@@ -145,7 +155,7 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( const char
}
// constructor
-SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( unsigned char *_data, int len, int _freq ) :
+SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( unsigned char *_data, int len, int _freq , bool
_no_Doppler_effect ) :
buffer(0),
source(0),
pitch(1.0),
@@ -153,7 +163,12 @@ SGSoundSample::SGSoundSample( unsigned c
reference_dist(500.0),
max_dist(3000.),
loop(AL_FALSE),
-playing(false)
+#ifndef USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER
+doppler_pitch_factor(1),
+doppler_volume_factor(1),
+#endif
+playing(false),
+no_Doppler_effect(_no_Doppler_effect)
{
SG_LOG( SG_GENERAL, SG_DEBUG, In memory sounds sample );
@@ -254,7 +269,9 @@ SGSoundSample::bind_source() {
alSourcef( source, AL_CONE_INNER_ANGLE, inner );
alSourcef( source, AL_CONE_OUTER_ANGLE, outer );
alSourcef( source, AL_CONE_OUTER_GAIN, outergain);
+#ifdef USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER
alSourcefv( source, AL_VELOCITY, source_vel );
+#endif
alSourcei( source, AL_LOOPING, loop );
alSourcei( source, AL_SOURCE_RELATIVE, AL_TRUE );
@@ -273,8 +290,22 @@ SGSoundSample::set_pitch( double p ) {
if ( p 2.0 ) { p = 2.0; }
pitch = p;
if (playing) {
+#ifdef USE_OPEN_AL_DOPPLER
alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, pitch );
-print_openal_error(set_pitch);
+#else
+ #ifdef AL_VERSION_1_1
+alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, pitch * doppler_pitch_factor );
+ #else
+p*=doppler_pitch_factor;
+if ( p 0.01 ) { p = 0.01; }
+if ( p 2.0 ) { p = 2.0; }
+alSourcef( source, AL_PITCH, p );
+ #endif
+#endif
+//print_openal_error(set_pitch);
+char t[256];
+sprintf(t,set_pitch:
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
Maik Justus wrote: [...] But I only will start to work on that patch if there is a chance to get it into cvs. Therefore I will wait, if the windows patch will be accepted. The original author of the OpenAL publicly objects implementing things in FlightGear that OpenAL usually should take care of and apparently the issue with OpenAL is still open. How do you _dare_ to expect people to commit your windows patch !? Such behaviour is highly disrespectful. Please comply with the same measures of fairness that you expect from other people (on this list) and refrain from such attempts unless the OpenAL issue is closed. Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler oddness
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:14:08 + (UTC) Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maik Justus wrote: [...] But I only will start to work on that patch if there is a chance to get it into cvs. Therefore I will wait, if the windows patch will be accepted. The original author of the OpenAL publicly objects implementing things in FlightGear that OpenAL usually should take care of and apparently the issue with OpenAL is still open. So the problem is being dealt with then ??? How do you _dare_ to expect people to commit your windows patch !? Such behaviour is highly disrespectful. Please comply with the same measures of fairness that you expect from other people (on this list) and refrain from such attempts unless the OpenAL issue is closed. This kind of answer is highly disrespectful too , considering the amount of work Maik has done to improve Flightgear! -- SydSandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
