Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
Hello, Hopefully this gets through, I'm not subscribed on the Devel (or any) fg list. And sorry for breaking threading, I read this this post from the sf ml archive page. I received an ad for %$ Flight Simulator ( http://www.%$flightsimulator.com/ (1)) and looked at it and found it eerily familiar. Was only able to find this page: http://www.%$flightsimulator.com/disclaimer.htm which almost confirmed my suspicion. Scanned the devel mailing list archive (is there a way to search the ML?), and came across this post. Jari Häkkinen jari@fl... wrote: So I suppose one could test them by requesting the source. They should provide it in machine readable form and then we can scrutinize their modification and use them if we choose to (and this would actually benefit proflightsim!). They only have to provide the source to you if you somehow received the binaries. This hinges on what public means in release. see: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic + the 4 following questions. To be guaranteed right to request a copy of the source, you do need a copy of the binary. Anything else, becomes a debate on what public means. Steve 1) replace %$ w/ pro, didn't want to help them raise their search engine ranking. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
Think about it. ;) http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 02:08 -0800, Chris Wilkinson wrote: http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? It started out fine with a few minor nitpicks until I reached: To say it is simply FlightGear would be inaccurate and illegal. Ehm? What?!! Looking at their so called todo list I would rather say they are stepping into shaky ground with every step and wouldn't be surprised to see it end up being illegal in the end. Erik -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
I have no time for detailed legalities of the message but one should note regarding GPL (at least v3 and probably v2, maybe it is time for fg to go v3?) 1) It is legal to fork a GPL project at any time if some conditions are met. In simple terms the forked project must provide their modification in machine readable form. 2) It is legal to try to make money out of GPL software Comments on 1). A simple google search (I used source site:proflightsimulator.com) will lead to http://www.proflightsimulator.com/downloads716/ReadMe.txt where we can read Source Code: Full source code has not been included in the download area, however it is available on request. Please contact us if you require this. http://proflightsimulator.com/support/ So I suppose one could test them by requesting the source. They should provide it in machine readable form and then we can scrutinize their modification and use them if we choose to (and this would actually benefit proflightsim!). If they do not provide the source then they break the license agreement. But are we prepared to battle this in courts? Probably this is the only licence breaking proflightsim does? Comment on 2). If they provide a better user experience (as they claim to do) then go ahead an charge your user base but remember to provide source to whoever requests it. I do not support their business model mostly because they make it hard to get their source code modifications (i.e., no simple download source link) and are somewhat obscure with their relation to fg. However, we must accept that others may be able to make money out of GPLd software. The way to counter the above is to make sure that flightgear.org is so much better than the opposition that the opposition fade away. Unfortunately this does not always mean technical brilliance from a user point of view but rather user experience. That is something proflight may have realized, I have not tried their package so I cannot make a judgement whether they improve user experience or not. I think that the single most important thing fg could do to fight flightpro and similar is to improve user experience and release often. I think that the latter is being worked on. I know that user experience is getting better all the time but there is a lot more that could be done for the non-technical user. But these two points are assuming that we want to expand the user base. Cheers, Jari - not affiliated with any commercial or shady flight simulator business but a user of Microsoft flight simulators and FlightGear (git next branch) On 2011-01-14 11.08, Chris Wilkinson wrote: http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
I love the contradictory passages: - ProFlightSimulator is an open source stand alone Flight Simulator. - Customer support is only an email away (Open source products do not offer any support) They say open source projects don’t offer support (despite FlightGear offering community support through the mailing lists and forums), but then they say ProFlightSimulator is open source, but offers email support? Chris On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 02:08 -0800, Chris Wilkinson wrote: http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:00:02 +, Chris wrote in message 1295020802.2363.13.camel@chris-desktop: I love the contradictory passages: - ProFlightSimulator is an open source stand alone Flight Simulator. - Customer support is only an email away (Open source products do not offer any support) They say open source projects don’t offer support (despite FlightGear offering community support through the mailing lists and forums), but then they say ProFlightSimulator is open source, but offers email support? ..only takes passing on the scamster's support email to some naive nearby community, say with some sed scripting adapting names to each helpful entity. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
Erik wrote: Looking at their so called todo list ...which is not much more than a sum-up of FlightGear features (like the VATSIM support that FlightGear has these days). Oh, to all: please do not provide direct links to these people's websites. Every single hit increases their pagerank and thus makes them more visible on most search engines. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
