[Flightgear-users] Re: Can't Configure Joystick
* Mr. Nigel Chuckletrousers -- Wednesday 22 December 2004 04:31: Whenever I run fgjs, everything works fine to configure the joystick to work. However, it's supposed to create the file fgfsrc.js, which cannot be located anywhere on the hard drive. Has anyone else had a problem with it not producing a configuration file? As I understand, fgjs is for very basic configs in the old style only (- lists of --prop://... entries). All js config files that come with fgfs are hand-written xml, and it's quite simple to do that. Just search for the best matching config in $FG_ROOT/Input/Joysticks/, make a copy and edit it. Should be self-explaining. Forget fgjs! m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Radios and other stuff.
Dave Martin wrote: On Tuesday 21 Dec 2004 13:10, David Megginson wrote: It took 3 months of solid 8 hours a day in aicraft radio school to learn how these systems work.And I am not sure 30 years later that I fully understand or believe what I was taught. Were you learning how to build or maintain the instruments, rather than just use them? All the best, David Depends how long ago he trained, I once saw an ancient ADF, the size of a dinner-plate. You probably had to know how to stoke the boiler on that one ;-) ___ It's probably what I call the knowledge syndrome, the more you know, the more you realise how much you don't know. From a young lad who thought he knew all about radio to a fully qualified and experienced adult, my perception is that I have a very sketchy knowledge of how the stuff works, but I know just enough to get me by. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =LINUX ONLY USED HERE= ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Can't Configure Joystick
Jeremy Johnson wrote: On Tuesday 21 December 2004 10:31 pm, Mr. Nigel Chuckletrousers wrote: I'm trying to get a Logitech Attack 3 to work with FlightGear, but things aren't going as FlightGear.org's documentation suggests. Whenever I run js_demo and jstest, the joystick is recognized, so at least that works correctly. I'm running this on my dad's SuSE 9.1 Linux box, and SuSE seems to treat FlightGear differently than other distros, as it has a custom-made SuSE package for FlightGear (not the standard-issue rpm or compiled-from-source), and many paths are different. For example, the instructions say to run cd /usr/local/FlightGear/Input/Joysticks, but in SuSE, one must run cd /usr/lib/FlightGear/data/Input/Joysticks. This may have some effect on why things aren't acting correctly: Whenever I run fgjs, everything works fine to configure the joystick to work. However, it's supposed to create the file fgfsrc.js, which cannot be located anywhere on the hard drive. Has anyone else had a problem with it not producing a configuration file? And could somebody please assist me? Thank you. I have no knowledge of SuSE. I installed from source. For me fgjs creates fgfsrc.js in the current directory. Since I ran it from my home directory that's where my file was created. If I tried to run it from a directory for which I didn't have write permissions -- who knows? I ended up manually creating an xml file for my joystick: I added an entry for my_joystick.xml to /usr/share/FlightGear/joysticks.xml and then created my_joystick.xml and added it to /usr/share/FlightGear/Input/Joysticks/my_joystick's_manufacturer/ I based my_joystick.xml on that for a simple CH-compatable stick with 4 axis and 4 buttons in /usr/share/FlightGear/Input/Joysticks/ which had a similar number of buttons, sliders, axis, triggers, etc. When the SuSE package gets installed, I never used it. I grab all the sources and build it myself. Calibration of the CH yoke and pedals assigns the elevator, then does not respond to any other buttons. I've had to cut and try values in the xml file to get the sensitivity of controls to react properly, e.g with the default file, a slight input of rudder on the take-off run would cause it to veer off the runway rapidly, turns and climbs were way out of true. It would seem they depend on the processor speed. With a XP2200+, it was normal, but with this XP3000+, it was a nightmare ride. I wonder if there could be a way for fgfs to take a cue from the data in /proc/cpuinfo. # fgjs Found 2 joystick(s) Joystick 0 has 7 axes Joystick 1 has 3 axes Move the control you wish to use for elevator Assigned axis 1 on joystick 0 to control elevator Press any button for next control Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =LINUX ONLY USED HERE= ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Can't Configure Joystick
On Wednesday 22 Dec 2004 11:37, Sid Boyce wrote: With a XP2200+, it was normal, but with this XP3000+, it was a nightmare ride. Is that a Gameport joystick? - Would have thought there was an upper limit on polling at least for a gameport (baud rate) but for USB I'm not so sure. Do they behave nicely in jscal / jstest? ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] [Fwd: Flight Gear and Cockpit]
Original Message Subject:Flight Gear and Cockpit Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:14:42 +0100 From: Roger Wielgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Curt, I have a real cockpit interfaced with MSFS and Project Magenta. I would like to make a try using Flight gear but need a bit help as regards the I/O settings and the instrumentation. So I have a couple of questions: I do run 13 analog axises using a USB joystick card called Plasma by Betainnovations ( unfortunately out of business) Roll, pitch, yaw, throtltle 1, Throtttle 2, Prop1 , Prop2, Fuel1, Fuel 2, pitch Trim, Roll trim, Yaw trim and Flaps axis. When I try to use the FG Joystick utilitity it starts with joystick zero and ask for the elevator axis and my elevator axis is not on joystick O but on joystick 1. ( The plasma card is recognized by Windows 2000 as two joystick with 8 axises). Is there an other way the get the axises recognized by the software ??? Other problem are the instruments. My cockpit is a Dash8 using whats called Old Efis style. Project Magenta Boeing Glass Cockpit has an option enabling such panel with EADI/ AHSU_ND/, and as analog gauges the ASI/ ALT/RMI/VSI. I read somewhere that it is possible to run the FG instrument as standalone application on a second computer. True ?? False ?? If true how may I proceed in order to get such kind of instruments. The Server is a ATL.2600 with 1024 RAM ATI 9600XT 128 RAM The Client is a PIII 800 Mhz 326 RAM GEFORCE 2 400MX 32 RAM Thanks for your help Kind regards Roger Wielgus 34, rue Schweighauser 67000 Strasbourg - France phone 33388411445 mobile 333673683955 -- Bill Earnest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Powered Allentown, PA, USA Computers, like air conditioners, work poorly with Windows open. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] DVDraw conversion
I have some good instruments drawn with Dataviews DV-Draw, circa 1998, (extension is .v) that I'd like to convert into .rgb files for OpenGL. The current version of DVDraw is 2.3, but it doesn't read my files. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Thanks, Bill ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] DVDraw conversion
Bill Galbraith wrote: I have some good instruments drawn with Dataviews DV-Draw, circa 1998, (extension is .v) that I'd like to convert into .rgb files for OpenGL. The current version of DVDraw is 2.3, but it doesn't read my files. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Is it possible to pull up the graphics in a window at native resolution and do a screen grab? Or can you convert to .jpg or .gif or .tif or .png or some other common graphics format? From there you should be able to convert .rgb pretty easily. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
Ok I read the other web site on how to do IFR nav but I still don't know how to setup the radios in flightgear to recieve the signals I need to navigate. Lemme give a fer instance. on the c172 panel there are 2 nav instruments and 1 ADF. in the radio stack there are 2 com/nav radios one atop the other. there is also the ADF radio (I'm assuming it's a radio). I am also assuming that each of the radios correspond to the NAV instruments. just like the ADF radio corresponds to the ADF instrument. now Say I am sitting at the Amarillo intl airport and want to go to Lubbock which is approximately 100 miles due South. HOw do I setup the radios to Lubbocks beacons or frequencies or whatever the heck the radios use to guide me to Lubbock? Where do I get the freqs from? I learned from another web site how to do the navigating but I never found out how to setup the radios to get me from point A to point B. I read the How to fly thingy on the Flightgear web site but it ran out of words before it got to this part. :) Please, I need to kow ALL about the radios in flightgear, If there's a place with docs I can read that will be fine. Thanks, Larry ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: now Say I am sitting at the Amarillo intl airport and want to go to Lubbock which is approximately 100 miles due South. HOw do I setup the radios to Lubbocks beacons or frequencies or whatever the heck the radios use to guide me to Lubbock? Where do I get the freqs from? I learned from another web site how to do the navigating but I never found out how to setup the radios to get me from point A to point B. Typically real pilots use navigation charts and other publications to find out these things. You can search online for aviation sectional charts and come up with a list of many different online stores(or check with the FBO at your local airport) that sell the references you need. The VFR sectional charts typically show the location and frequency for most navigation beacons. There are instrument charts that show the navaids needed for instrument flight. You can also get an A/DF(Airport/Facility Directory) which lists all you need to know about the various airports(you might also try Flight Guide http://www.flightguide.com for another similar directory). As an alternative to all this that might also help, take a look at http://www.airnav.com - this is an online summary of most of what is available out there. Hope this helps. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] [Fwd: Flight Gear and Cockpit]
That's the same guy asking the same question on Avsim. Ampere On December 22, 2004 07:24 am, William Earnest wrote: Original Message Subject: Flight Gear and Cockpit Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:14:42 +0100 From: Roger Wielgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Curt, I have a real cockpit interfaced with MSFS and Project Magenta. I would like to make a try using Flight gear but need a bit help as regards the I/O settings and the instrumentation. So I have a couple of questions: I do run 13 analog axises using a USB joystick card called Plasma by Betainnovations ( unfortunately out of business) Roll, pitch, yaw, throtltle 1, Throtttle 2, Prop1 , Prop2, Fuel1, Fuel 2, pitch Trim, Roll trim, Yaw trim and Flaps axis. When I try to use the FG Joystick utilitity it starts with joystick zero and ask for the elevator axis and my elevator axis is not on joystick O but on joystick 1. ( The plasma card is recognized by Windows 2000 as two joystick with 8 axises). Is there an other way the get the axises recognized by the software ??? Other problem are the instruments. My cockpit is a Dash8 using whats called Old Efis style. Project Magenta Boeing Glass Cockpit has an option enabling such panel with EADI/ AHSU_ND/, and as analog gauges the ASI/ ALT/RMI/VSI. I read somewhere that it is possible to run the FG instrument as standalone application on a second computer. True ?? False ?? If true how may I proceed in order to get such kind of instruments. The Server is a ATL.2600 with 1024 RAM ATI 9600XT 128 RAM The Client is a PIII 800 Mhz 326 RAM GEFORCE 2 400MX 32 RAM Thanks for your help Kind regards Roger Wielgus 34, rue Schweighauser 67000 Strasbourg - France phone 33388411445 mobile 333673683955 ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:43:52 -0500 (EST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where do I get the freqs from? I learned from another web site how to do the navigating but I never found out how to setup the radios to get me from point A to point B. Some of the charts are available online, but they're usually a pain to use. Why not invest a few bucks in paper charts if you're going to take all this time? They're available online from many sources, or you can just walk into the flight school or FBO at your nearest general aviation airport (which might be a fun place to visit anyway). IFR charts are well under $10 each, and you don't have to update them every 7 weeks since you're not using them for real aviation. Sporty's chart doctor will show you what you need to buy for your area (I'm not sure how good they are -- my sources are in Canada): http://www.sportys.com/chartdoctor/ All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Wednesday 22 December 2004 19:43: Where do I get the freqs from? I learned from another web site how to do the navigating but I never found out how to setup the radios to get me from point A to point B. You don't always get frequencies that guide you from A to B. As John wrote already, you can buy charts or search/find them on the internet, which tell you what nav facilities you can use to get from A to B. I for one do only have maps for my country. But, of course, there's an easier and cheaper way that I use for the rest of the world: 1. http://atlas.sf.net/ -- shows you maps with airports, VOR, NDB frequencies. And guess, where it has the frequencies from? 2. all of the frequencies are, of course, contained in FlightGear's base data. You find them here: $FG_ROOT/Navaids/nav.dat.gz For example, to list a few LOXL related frequencies, do this: $ zgrep Linz $FG_ROOT/Navaids/nav.dat.gz 2 48.237100 014.321783 0 327 0.000 LNZ Linz NDB 3 48.229711 014.103156 1145 11660 0.000 LNZ Linz VOR-DME 12 48.229711 014.103156 1145 11660 0.000 LNZ Linz VOR-DME ^ NDB (- ADF) VOR/DME frequencies m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
On Wednesday, 22 December 2004 21:29, David Megginson wrote: Some of the charts are available online, but they're usually a pain to use. Why not invest a few bucks in paper charts if you're going to take all this time? They're available online from many sources, or you can just walk into the flight school or FBO at your nearest general aviation airport (which might be a fun place to visit anyway). IFR charts are well under $10 each, and you don't have to update them every 7 weeks since you're not using them for real aviation. Where I live it's Jeppessen, Jeppessen or Jeppessen. :-\ A single approach plate costs about $15 (USD) at the shop at my local airfield. Most of the charts have to be bought as a complete set which costs a few thousand Dollars. One probably has more options in Canada and the USA than elsewhere in the world. I really feel that FG should have a built in flight planner of some sort. All the basic navaid data is already in FG we just need some way of displaying it. Paul ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:22:58 +0200 Paul Surgeon wrote: I really feel that FG should have a built in flight planner of some sort. All the basic navaid data is already in FG we just need some way of displaying it. Well, Atlas can be used for displaying it, as Melchior noted. But as for a real planning tool . . .various well-meaning folks have commented on this before, and even declared that they were going to build such a tool; but it's never happened. I agree that it'd be a cool thing to have. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpeV7Wutbs0m.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
On Wednesday 22 December 2004 22:00, Chris Metzler wrote: On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:22:58 +0200 Paul Surgeon wrote: I really feel that FG should have a built in flight planner of some sort. All the basic navaid data is already in FG we just need some way of displaying it. Well, Atlas can be used for displaying it, as Melchior noted. But as for a real planning tool . . .various well-meaning folks have commented on this before, and even declared that they were going to build such a tool; but it's never happened. I agree that it'd be a cool thing to have. Actually there exists a flight planning tool for FlightGear: http://sourceforge.net/projects/fgflightplanner/ It's written in Java, so I guess it should be platform independent. I have only tried it on Suse 9.1. -- Roy Vegard Ovesen ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:22:58 +0200, Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really feel that FG should have a built in flight planner of some sort. All the basic navaid data is already in FG we just need some way of displaying What's not in FlightGear, like the actual airways, is in the DAFIF (as long as it lasts). Where do you live? All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Still haven't found what I need, more on readios :)
On Wednesday 22 December 2004 22:43, David Megginson wrote: On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:22:58 +0200, Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really feel that FG should have a built in flight planner of some sort. All the basic navaid data is already in FG we just need some way of displaying What's not in FlightGear, like the actual airways, is in the DAFIF (as long as it lasts). There is the data/Navaids/awy.dat.gz file that I guess contains the airways. AFAIK it's not used by FlightGear, but it could of course be used by Atlas. -- Roy Vegard Ovesen ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Splash screen hangs
Hello there! I compiled FlightGear 0.9.6 on my SuSE 9.0 system. I followed the installation instructions, but when I try to start it, the spash screen shows and it hangs. The console says: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ /usr/local/FlightGear/bin/fgfs --control=mouse Object PanelInstruments not found Object ControlsGroup not found I can abort the program with Ctrl-C. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Florian Pose ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Splash screen hangs
* Florian Pose -- Thursday 23 December 2004 00:07: I compiled FlightGear 0.9.6 on my SuSE 9.0 system. I followed the installation instructions, but when I try to start it, the spash screen shows and it hangs. The console says: [...] I can abort the program with Ctrl-C. What am I doing wrong? You are probably not waiting long enough. FlightGear does now wait until all the necessary scenery/objects are loaded, which can take a while. To get the old behavior, you can call fgfs like so: $ fgfs --props:/sim/sceneryloaded-override=true Of course, you would then put this option into your ~/.fgfsrc m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Splash screen hangs
Melchior FRANZ schrieb: You are probably not waiting long enough. FlightGear does now wait until all the necessary scenery/objects are loaded, which can take a while. To get the old behavior, you can call fgfs like so: $ fgfs --props:/sim/sceneryloaded-override=true Thank you very much! I succeeded with: $ fgfs --props=/sim/sceneryloaded-override=true Best regards, Florian ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Splash screen hangs
* Florian Pose -- Thursday 23 December 2004 01:30: Melchior FRANZ schrieb: $ fgfs --props:/sim/sceneryloaded-override=true $ fgfs --props=/sim/sceneryloaded-override=true That's funny. This syntax is even wronger than mine. Astonishing that it actually works. Correct is this: $ fgfs --prop:/sim/sceneryloaded-override=true just prop, not props. And you can use 1 and 0 for true and false. m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Splash screen hangs
It is an OpenAL issue: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topicforum=198topic_id=473mode=full Someone on the mailing list also reached the same conclusion. Ampere On December 22, 2004 06:07 pm, Florian Pose wrote: Hello there! I compiled FlightGear 0.9.6 on my SuSE 9.0 system. I followed the installation instructions, but when I try to start it, the spash screen shows and it hangs. The console says: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ /usr/local/FlightGear/bin/fgfs --control=mouse Object PanelInstruments not found Object ControlsGroup not found I can abort the program with Ctrl-C. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Florian Pose ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Splash screen hangs
I've had this same problem on my G5 Mac, but I don't have a clue how to address the issue. Fran On Dec 22, 2004, at 8:37 PM, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: It is an OpenAL issue: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php? az=show_topicforum=198topic_id=473mode=full Someone on the mailing list also reached the same conclusion. Ampere On December 22, 2004 06:07 pm, Florian Pose wrote: Hello there! I compiled FlightGear 0.9.6 on my SuSE 9.0 system. I followed the installation instructions, but when I try to start it, the spash screen shows and it hangs. The console says: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ /usr/local/FlightGear/bin/fgfs --control=mouse Object PanelInstruments not found Object ControlsGroup not found I can abort the program with Ctrl-C. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Florian Pose ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
