Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: wiki-based troubleshooting
Geoffrey Plourde wrote: > This is a interesting proposal, but I'd suggest taking the idea to Meta. > There is already a > Symptom checker at WebMD, but it could potentially upon a legal can of worms > for WM to get > involved in medical troubleshooting. There may already be online troubleshooting wizards for a domain (e.g. medicare), and people have to memorize the domain names of these domain-specific troubleshooting wizards. What I propose is a single, universal entry point for all your troubles in life -- WikiTroubleshooting.org, so that you don't need to memorize individual sites like WebMD. It's like with Wikipedia -- if you want to learn about something, you just go to a single website: wikipedia.org, without learning about domain-specific knowledgebase websites. Best Regards, Yao Ziyuan http://sites.google.com/site/yaoziyuan/ ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: wiki-based troubleshooting
Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>
>> We definitely do not want to be giving medical advice to people. If
>> you get that wrong, people die. Medical advice should be got by going
>> to the doctors. Can you give another example of what your idea could
Yes, medical troubleshooting is both extremely useful and extremely
sensitive, and that's why I said "Like Wikipedia, WikiTroubleshooting
should cite credible references." We could put a warning and a
disclaimer on every medical troubleshooting page telling the visitor
to check cited references and other sources before adopting any
advice.
>> be used for? Can you also explain how it would work - how would we put
Troubleshooting is enormously useful beyond the medical domain. For
example, troubleshooting problems when using a computer (hardware or
software), programming (intending to implement something but the
program doesn't behave as desired; in this case, a troubleshooter
helps the programmer incrementally specify his *intent* rather than
*problem*), using home appliances ("my air conditioner has ice"), or
any other problem at home or at work.
>> together this wizard?
To understand how a wiki can implement a "troubleshooting wizard", you
must first understand what is a "troubleshooting wizard". Googling [
troubleshooting wizard ], we can see some examples:
http://www1.linksys.com/support/troubleshoot/routers/index.html
http://support.plato.com/ple/troubleshooting.asp
http://www.fixyourdlp.com/wizard/launch-window.html
http://support.hubris.net/dialup/wizard/
All of the above examples help a visitor isolate his problem step by
step, asking one question at each step and finally giving possible
solutions.
Also learn about the concept "troubleshooting" at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubleshooting .
How can a wiki implement a troubleshooting wizard? A wizard is a set
of pages. Each page assumes you have specified certain symptoms (e.g.
symptom1, symptom3, symptom5) of your problem and asks you a question
to specify a new symptom (e.g. symptom10); then it redirects you to a
next page that assumes you have specified symptoms 1, 3, 5 and 10 and
asks you yet another question or shows you possible causes and
solutions for the symptoms you have specified so far (1, 3, 5, 10).
Therefore they're just static HTML pages where each page can link to
one or more "next pages". This is exactly what a wiki can do.
Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://sites.google.com/site/yaoziyuan/
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Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: wiki-based troubleshooting
This is a interesting proposal, but I'd suggest taking the idea to Meta. There is already a Symptom checker at WebMD, but it could potentially upon a legal can of worms for WM to get involved in medical troubleshooting. From: Yao Ziyuan To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:31 PM Subject: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: wiki-based troubleshooting Possible names: WikiTroubleshooting/WikiWizard/WikiWiz/WikiSolve/WikiFix/... Motivation: Wikipedia provides factual knowledge (e.g. 7th-grade geometry) but not problem-solving capabilities (e.g. helping a visitor solve his geometry problem). Solution: A hypertext system like a wiki can implement a step-by-step wizard (as seen in Windows XP's Troubleshooter help system; screenshot: http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/i/tr/cms/contentPics/multimon-e.gif) that lets a visitor incrementally select symptoms of his problem, and finally the wizard leads to a wiki page that shows possible causes for and solutions to his problem. Any problem in life can be included in this wiki. For example, the visitor can start at a "Troubleshooting Your Health Problem" portal, and the portal lets the visitor select a body part that feels uncomfortable, and subsequent wizard pages let him select more specific symptoms, until enough symptoms are specified so that a final wizard page can show possible diseases and their causes and solutions. Like Wikipedia, WikiTroubleshooting should cite credible references. Best Regards, Yao Ziyuan http://sites.google.com/site/yaoziyuan/ ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: wiki-based troubleshooting
We definitely do not want to be giving medical advice to people. If you get that wrong, people die. Medical advice should be got by going to the doctors. Can you give another example of what your idea could be used for? Can you also explain how it would work - how would we put together this wizard? On 4 May 2010 20:58, Yao Ziyuan wrote: > Possible names: WikiTroubleshooting/WikiWizard/WikiWiz/WikiSolve/WikiFix/... > > Motivation: > > Wikipedia provides factual knowledge (e.g. 7th-grade geometry) but not > problem-solving capabilities (e.g. helping a visitor solve his > geometry problem). > > Solution: > > A hypertext system like a wiki can implement a step-by-step wizard (as > seen in Windows XP's Troubleshooter help system; screenshot: > http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/i/tr/cms/contentPics/multimon-e.gif) > that lets a visitor incrementally select symptoms of his problem, and > finally the wizard leads to a wiki page that shows possible causes for > and solutions to his problem. Any problem in life can be included in > this wiki. For example, the visitor can start at a "Troubleshooting > Your Health Problem" portal, and the portal lets the visitor select a > body part that feels uncomfortable, and subsequent wizard pages let > him select more specific symptoms, until enough symptoms are specified > so that a final wizard page can show possible diseases and their > causes and solutions. Like Wikipedia, WikiTroubleshooting should cite > credible references. > > Best Regards, > Yao Ziyuan > http://sites.google.com/site/yaoziyuan/ > > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] New project proposal: wiki-based troubleshooting
Possible names: WikiTroubleshooting/WikiWizard/WikiWiz/WikiSolve/WikiFix/... Motivation: Wikipedia provides factual knowledge (e.g. 7th-grade geometry) but not problem-solving capabilities (e.g. helping a visitor solve his geometry problem). Solution: A hypertext system like a wiki can implement a step-by-step wizard (as seen in Windows XP's Troubleshooter help system; screenshot: http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/i/tr/cms/contentPics/multimon-e.gif) that lets a visitor incrementally select symptoms of his problem, and finally the wizard leads to a wiki page that shows possible causes for and solutions to his problem. Any problem in life can be included in this wiki. For example, the visitor can start at a "Troubleshooting Your Health Problem" portal, and the portal lets the visitor select a body part that feels uncomfortable, and subsequent wizard pages let him select more specific symptoms, until enough symptoms are specified so that a final wizard page can show possible diseases and their causes and solutions. Like Wikipedia, WikiTroubleshooting should cite credible references. Best Regards, Yao Ziyuan http://sites.google.com/site/yaoziyuan/ ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Flagged protection and patrolled revisions
These are great questions, and we're actually having a big meeting about the project this afternoon, so I'll be sure to raise them to make sure we all have the same notion. That said, a few of quick responses from my perspective: On 05/03/2010 08:15 AM, Carcharoth wrote: > Since it does seem very close to going live, could I ask if plans have > been made for how to handle announcing the arrival of this feature and > any post-implementation problems? Hopefully there won't be any or > many, but are there plans ranging from "rollback completely if things > go awfully wrong" to "make adjustments as needed and be responsive to > concerns raised"? > There's the technical part of this and the community part of this. My understanding is that the technical side of the rollout is well understood, and that our substantial time in the labs environment means we are not expecting major problems. I also am given to believe that if there are major problems, rolling back will not be a big deal. That will get us to having the feature enabled, but not in use. That next leg is mainly up to the community. Once the software is enabled, any admin will be able to turn on flagged protection for any page, just as they are now able to turn on full protection. I expect there will be a period of experimentation and vigorous discussion to discover exactly when that is a good idea. Once it's in use on particular pages, there's the question of who does the reviewing, how much is needed, and how we make sure it gets done in a timely fashion. Most of that is up to the community as well, and part of the purpose of this experiment is to figure that out as well. From a technical perspective, there are a couple different approaches to deciding who has reviewer powers; in the next week or so I want to start a community discussion on the right model, but we need a little more internal discussion to be able to clearly present those options. As far as the "making adjustments as needed", the plan is that we will absolutely learn things after release, and some of those things will probably require code changes. There is also a list of nice-to-haves that we can do if nothing else more pressing comes up. So work will continue as before, with frequent releases either to production or to the labs environment as appropriate. Once that work tapers off, I'm sure there will be a discussion of where best to allocate resources, but that hasn't even been mentioned yet; the Foundation is definitely committed to supporting this experiment. > And how much input exactly will ordinary editors have > post-implementation? Is the interface flexible and can be changed by > editors or admins, and which bits can only be tweaked by developers > (either using common sense or following a community poll or Bugzilla > request or request somewhere else)? I ask this partly as someone who > (with others) may have to deal with any massive disputes or edit wars > that break out over this if some aspects of flagged revisions or its > interface are editable and changeable on-wiki (presumably in the > Mediawiki namespace, editable by admins only). > This is an area where I'm personally a bit ignorant, so I'll be sure to ask. I know that some parts of the interface definitely require a developer to change code and release it. I know that some, possibly all purely textual changes can in theory be done hot, but I don't know who has the mojo to do that on the English Wikipedia. If somebody here knows that, please speak up. > Presumably, an update will be made to the on-wiki pages about this > before it goes live? And there will some site notice giving some > warning? having things change mid-edit could be a bit disconcerting! > My belief, which I will double-check, is that releasing the software will have little or no impact on the editing experience; it's only when an admin activates it on a particular page via the protection interface that the editing experience will change. William ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Vandalize wikipedia day on facebook
Speaking from my own experience, I started off as a "vandal" got a couple of test warnings and then I started contributing meaningfully. As long as the vandalism is not subtle and experimenting users are not labelled as "vandals" as such, it can be easily managed by bots and users. ZOMG LET''S VANDALIZE WIKIPEDIA!!!11!! will inevitably get more attention than "Let us write an article day!". Yours sincerely, Anirudh Singh Bhati Student of Law, Gujarat National Law University, Gandhinagar, India. Handphone: +919328712208 Skype: anirudhsbh Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn’t deserve to be. —L. Neil Smith. On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Anthony wrote: > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Kul Takanao Wadhwa >wrote: > > > James Alexander wrote: > > > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Anirudh Bhati > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Vandalizing Wikipedia may actually get a few started on the project. > > It's > > >> usually easier to persuade people to do "evil" sounding things on the > > >> internet than real-life - some positive externalities may arise. > > >> > > >> I agree, I've actually met at least 3 people "out in the world" who > > >> > > > admitted to starting off vandalizing the Wikipedia and then ended up > > editing > > > it legitimately. Two of them do very random wikiGnome stuff when they > see > > it > > > and the third has actually done quite a few articles now. > > > > > > > > That's very interesting to know. Do you have any idea what made them > > convert from being vandals to positive contributors? > > > > Reading Template:Test, of course. > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Vandalize wikipedia day on facebook
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Kul Takanao Wadhwa wrote: > James Alexander wrote: > > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Anirudh Bhati > wrote: > > > > > >> Vandalizing Wikipedia may actually get a few started on the project. > It's > >> usually easier to persuade people to do "evil" sounding things on the > >> internet than real-life - some positive externalities may arise. > >> > >> I agree, I've actually met at least 3 people "out in the world" who > >> > > admitted to starting off vandalizing the Wikipedia and then ended up > editing > > it legitimately. Two of them do very random wikiGnome stuff when they see > it > > and the third has actually done quite a few articles now. > > > > > That's very interesting to know. Do you have any idea what made them > convert from being vandals to positive contributors? > Reading Template:Test, of course. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Vandalize wikipedia day on facebook
--- El mar 4-may-10, Kul Takanao Wadhwa escribió: > >> I agree, I've actually met at least 3 people "out in the world" who > >> admitted to starting off vandalizing the Wikipedia and then ended up > >> editing it legitimately... > > > That's very interesting to know. Do you have any idea what > made them convert from being vandals to positive contributors? > Knowing more about this, and possible identifying commonalities > in these cases could help us figure out what it might take to > get more people to be good contributors. and to identify and learn how to deal with the different kind of vandals... MarianoC.- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Vandalize wikipedia day on facebook
James Alexander wrote: > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Anirudh Bhati wrote: > > >> Vandalizing Wikipedia may actually get a few started on the project. It's >> usually easier to persuade people to do "evil" sounding things on the >> internet than real-life - some positive externalities may arise. >> >> I agree, I've actually met at least 3 people "out in the world" who >> > admitted to starting off vandalizing the Wikipedia and then ended up editing > it legitimately. Two of them do very random wikiGnome stuff when they see it > and the third has actually done quite a few articles now. > > That's very interesting to know. Do you have any idea what made them convert from being vandals to positive contributors? Knowing more about this, and possible identifying commonalities in these cases could help us figure out what it might take to get more people to be good contributors. --Kul ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Vandalize wikipedia day on facebook
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Anirudh Bhati wrote: > Vandalizing Wikipedia may actually get a few started on the project. It's > usually easier to persuade people to do "evil" sounding things on the > internet than real-life - some positive externalities may arise. > > I agree, I've actually met at least 3 people "out in the world" who admitted to starting off vandalizing the Wikipedia and then ended up editing it legitimately. Two of them do very random wikiGnome stuff when they see it and the third has actually done quite a few articles now. Jamesofur James Alexander james.alexan...@rochester.edu jameso...@gmail.com 100 gmail invites and no one to give them to :( let me know if you want one :) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Vandalize wikipedia day on facebook
Vandalizing Wikipedia may actually get a few started on the project. It's usually easier to persuade people to do "evil" sounding things on the internet than real-life - some positive externalities may arise. Anirudh Bhati On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:07 AM, Amory Meltzer wrote: > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 19:07, K. Peachey wrote: > > The more time you spend trying to shutdown the pages/groups/whatever > > else, the more it encourages users to do it, So just pay no attention > > to them. > > We have an article on that! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect > > ~A > > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
