Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Sage Ross wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Domas Mituzasmidom.li...@gmail.com wrote: Gerard, Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place to announce such things. it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not your business :) BR, I guess I shouldn't have stopped reading this thread so early on. I wrote News and notes this week but I didn't end up mentioning the sub-lease/move in this week's Signpost because it just didn't seem very important. But I do consider it part of the Signpost's mission to report on Foundation matters, and more than that, to help push for WMF transparency and accountability to the community. I don't like the idea that what the Signpost does is our business and not your business, for various intracommunity values of us and you. Despite being based on en.wp, we're trying to become more useful to the broader Wikimedia community/communities. (To that end, OhanaUnited is reviving the Sister Project Interviews series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:OhanaUnited/Sister_Projects_Interview . And both news reports from other projects and reflective pieces about what it's like to work on individual non-English projects versus their English counterparts are very welcome.) The we of the Signpost is anyone from the Wikimedia community who wants to contribute. Just to chime in, figuring my perspective from the early days of the Signpost might be useful. From the beginning I knew that we had people reading from outside the English Wikipedia, and there's always been interest in building off that framework for cross-project exchange of news, whether it's the English-speaking audience learning about the work in other languages, or getting news from English out to those languages. That was, is, and should always be encouraged. This simply reflects that the Signpost is for the benefit of the community, however broadly that may be defined, and should look to that for guidance in its coverage. In that sense, if Gerard reads the Signpost, it is his business what he wants to hear about. I would hope that was mostly focused on making it more thorough and comprehensive, though. Strictly speaking it's correct that the Signpost is not the place for us (in this case, us meaning the Wikimedia Foundation) to announce things, because it's independent of the foundation, but the implication that it's not something people should expect to read about in the Signpost would be a mistake. Finally, as valuable as both the Signpost and Wikizine are, along with this list and all other ways to disseminate information, no single source can be the magic bullet to reach everyone. In working toward that, we need to exercise our cultural value of sharing knowledge, so if you have information that is appropriate to share, pass it on to those who would like to know about it. --Michael Snow ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Hoi, The one reason why I read the Signpost is because it posts a table of contents on a blog that is aggregated. grin Advertisement works, it gets it more readers /grin Thanks, GerardM 2009/9/8 Michael Snow wikipe...@verizon.net Sage Ross wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Domas Mituzasmidom.li...@gmail.com wrote: Gerard, Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place to announce such things. it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not your business :) BR, I guess I shouldn't have stopped reading this thread so early on. I wrote News and notes this week but I didn't end up mentioning the sub-lease/move in this week's Signpost because it just didn't seem very important. But I do consider it part of the Signpost's mission to report on Foundation matters, and more than that, to help push for WMF transparency and accountability to the community. I don't like the idea that what the Signpost does is our business and not your business, for various intracommunity values of us and you. Despite being based on en.wp, we're trying to become more useful to the broader Wikimedia community/communities. (To that end, OhanaUnited is reviving the Sister Project Interviews series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:OhanaUnited/Sister_Projects_Interview . And both news reports from other projects and reflective pieces about what it's like to work on individual non-English projects versus their English counterparts are very welcome.) The we of the Signpost is anyone from the Wikimedia community who wants to contribute. Just to chime in, figuring my perspective from the early days of the Signpost might be useful. From the beginning I knew that we had people reading from outside the English Wikipedia, and there's always been interest in building off that framework for cross-project exchange of news, whether it's the English-speaking audience learning about the work in other languages, or getting news from English out to those languages. That was, is, and should always be encouraged. This simply reflects that the Signpost is for the benefit of the community, however broadly that may be defined, and should look to that for guidance in its coverage. In that sense, if Gerard reads the Signpost, it is his business what he wants to hear about. I would hope that was mostly focused on making it more thorough and comprehensive, though. Strictly speaking it's correct that the Signpost is not the place for us (in this case, us meaning the Wikimedia Foundation) to announce things, because it's independent of the foundation, but the implication that it's not something people should expect to read about in the Signpost would be a mistake. Finally, as valuable as both the Signpost and Wikizine are, along with this list and all other ways to disseminate information, no single source can be the magic bullet to reach everyone. In working toward that, we need to exercise our cultural value of sharing knowledge, so if you have information that is appropriate to share, pass it on to those who would like to know about it. --Michael Snow ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/7 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:42 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: That would describe the person who started this thread, who has stated elsewhere that anything whatsoever he does on any WMF site is only for the purpose of trolling. Was that the form of words used? I'd be interested to know the exact quote. Citations emailed. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by fuckups. WMF actually does better than most charities of comparable staffing and funding ... Yes, that's the way I view it too. Most of these attacking threads could be answered with something like the WMF hasn't quite found its feet and hasn't yet come to terms with the expectations of some members of the community as regards transparency of its internal workings. I wonder what motivates this kind of thread. Do those who regularly seek to pick out any inconsistency or failure to communicate actually /like/ Wikipedia, or do they have some grudge against the whole enterprise? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/7 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com: I wonder what motivates this kind of thread. Do those who regularly seek to pick out any inconsistency or failure to communicate actually /like/ Wikipedia, or do they have some grudge against the whole enterprise? That would describe the person who started this thread, who has stated elsewhere that anything whatsoever he does on any WMF site is only for the purpose of trolling. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:42 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: That would describe the person who started this thread, who has stated elsewhere that anything whatsoever he does on any WMF site is only for the purpose of trolling. Was that the form of words used? I'd be interested to know the exact quote. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Domas Mituzasmidom.li...@gmail.com wrote: Gerard, Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place to announce such things. it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not your business :) BR, I guess I shouldn't have stopped reading this thread so early on. I wrote News and notes this week but I didn't end up mentioning the sub-lease/move in this week's Signpost because it just didn't seem very important. But I do consider it part of the Signpost's mission to report on Foundation matters, and more than that, to help push for WMF transparency and accountability to the community. I don't like the idea that what the Signpost does is our business and not your business, for various intracommunity values of us and you. Despite being based on en.wp, we're trying to become more useful to the broader Wikimedia community/communities. (To that end, OhanaUnited is reviving the Sister Project Interviews series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:OhanaUnited/Sister_Projects_Interview . And both news reports from other projects and reflective pieces about what it's like to work on individual non-English projects versus their English counterparts are very welcome.) The we of the Signpost is anyone from the Wikimedia community who wants to contribute. -Sage ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
The move itself will be newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it hasn't happened yet. As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced or published, the press release would be fantastic: Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location office to new undisclosed location office :) Very useful. Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Hoi, Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place to announce such things. Thanks, GerardM 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.com Correct, I meant announcement not press release. Announcing this move by placing a blurb on the foundation site, asking for assistance on the sf list, and letting the signpost know all would have headed this discussion off From: geni geni...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:43:57 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.com: The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is probably the wrong term though. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Gerard, Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place to announce such things. it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not your business :) BR, Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Hoi, It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is that it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that Wikizine would be a better choice. :) Thanks. GerardM 2009/9/6 Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com Gerard, Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place to announce such things. it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not your business :) BR, Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Hoi, As there is no signpost in Dutch, it may be one reason why I did not notice that there are links to other publications. I checked out the one in German and it is not a translation of the en.wp Signpost. Consequently the assertion that there are 19 versions is suspect and my point stands. Thanks, GerardM 2009/9/6 geni geni...@gmail.com 2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is that it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that Wikizine would be a better choice. :) Thanks. GerardM The signpost has versions in 19 languages. I think that can be said to provide a reasonable level of coverage. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, As there is no signpost in Dutch, it may be one reason why I did not notice that there are links to other publications. I checked out the one in German and it is not a translation of the en.wp Signpost. Consequently the assertion that there are 19 versions is suspect and my point stands. Thanks, GerardM If you want to get seriously formal there are signpost or signpost like publications in 19 languages on wikipedia which means that informing them is likely to result in significantly wider information distribution among the wikimedia than wikizine. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 geni geni...@gmail.com: If you want to get seriously formal there are signpost or signpost like publications in 19 languages on wikipedia which means that informing them is likely to result in significantly wider information distribution among the wikimedia than wikizine. Wikizine does pretty well for readership (particularly as it's now posted here). The various Signposts are no more affiliated than the various Wikipedias. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: I just have to say that I think it is utter and complete nonsense for anyone to ever accuse the Wikimedia Foundation in any serious way of being the kind of organization that tries to hush things up. Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by fuckups. WMF actually does better than most charities of comparable staffing and funding ... - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
The move itself will be newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it hasn't happened yet. As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced or published, the press release would be fantastic: Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location office to new undisclosed location office :) Very useful. Domas I just have to say that I think it is utter and complete nonsense for anyone to ever accuse the Wikimedia Foundation in any serious way of being the kind of organization that tries to hush things up. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/6 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: I just have to say that I think it is utter and complete nonsense for anyone to ever accuse the Wikimedia Foundation in any serious way of being the kind of organization that tries to hush things up. Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by fuckups. Perhaps you should rethink this analysis. You might be attributing accusations of the latter for accusations of the former. WMF actually does better than most charities of comparable staffing and funding ... I've never bothered comparing with regard to funding. Which organizations would be comparable? And which comes first, the funding or the competence? As for staffing, that's part of the problem. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by fuckups. Perhaps you should rethink this analysis. You might be attributing accusations of the latter for accusations of the former. I think it's pretty clear in the case of the start of this particular idiot thread. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Ok, not replying to anyone in particular, but please, can we stop this thread? If it has ever been useful, it has lost that little bit by now I guess. Thank you. -- eia 2009/9/6 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com 2009/9/6 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by fuckups. Perhaps you should rethink this analysis. You might be attributing accusations of the latter for accusations of the former. I think it's pretty clear in the case of the start of this particular idiot thread. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Why not the Signposts, Wikizine, and the SF mailing list? No need for exclusives. From: geni geni...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 1:43:41 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is that it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that Wikizine would be a better choice. :) Thanks. GerardM The signpost has versions in 19 languages. I think that can be said to provide a reasonable level of coverage. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: So, not having known that 3,000 square feet was the sum total of the current WMF space on Stillman, my original but unpublished hunch was correct. Given how spectacularly incorrect your published accusations were that's a pretty pathetic defense. Are you going to apologise? -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: Geni wrote: ++ Given how spectacularly incorrect your published accusations were that's a pretty pathetic defense. Are you going to apologise? -- geni ++ I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm confirming the Wikimedia sublease. Erik Moeller has confirmed that the Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. Which accusations do you speak of? That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous comments) as anything else. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm confirming the Wikimedia sublease. Erik Moeller has confirmed that the Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. Which accusations do you speak of? Now, only eight months later, are we to understand that instead of having “outgrown” its office space on Stillman Street, the WMF is swimming in surplus floor space, that they need to hire Grubb Ellis to sub-let it out to someone else? WMF is swimming in surplus floor space? Why in the heck would I apologize for scooping the story that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let office space, if only the speculative intentions were a little off-base (I did not realize that the WMF does not intend to stay at Stillman Street a while longer, since the Foundation failed to communicate any significant We're Moving Soon! announcement to the community). Spectacularly off-base. You threw in a bunch of accusations and innuendo based on a complete misunderstanding of events. The foundation doesn't talk about the particulars of it's office much but descriptions and photos do exist and It wouldn't have taken much work to realize that the amount described was pretty much consistent with the foundation's entire office. I have issued a clarifying statement in the blog comments field, and that should be sufficient, unless someone feels they've been libeled by the Internet Review Corporation. I've received no such legal complaint. So only in the face of lawsuits will you ever consider apologising? Thats... impressively amoral. When the Watergate story broke, The people involved were far better at what they did than you are. Investigative journalism is hard and involves more than grabbing a factoid then coating it with acusations and spin which support your world view. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Geni wrote: ++ Given how spectacularly incorrect your published accusations were that's a pretty pathetic defense. Are you going to apologise? -- geni ++ I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm confirming the Wikimedia sublease. Erik Moeller has confirmed that the Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. Which accusations do you speak of? Why in the heck would I apologize for scooping the story that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let office space, if only the speculative intentions were a little off-base (I did not realize that the WMF does not intend to stay at Stillman Street a while longer, since the Foundation failed to communicate any significant We're Moving Soon! announcement to the community). I have issued a clarifying statement in the blog comments field, and that should be sufficient, unless someone feels they've been libeled by the Internet Review Corporation. I've received no such legal complaint. When the Watergate story broke, it was felt to be a largely contained story. Leslie Stahl once commented, **CBS sent me. It was a measure of how unimportant CBS thought the story was in the beginning. As more information seeped out, it became clear that it was a story with much wider implications. Consider me a Leslie Stahl, circa 1972. Greg ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Gregory Kohs wrote: Consider me a Leslie Stahl, circa 1972. We should stop feeding the troll, especially this particular species of novice self-made spy. Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: Which accusations do you speak of? That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous comments) as anything else. Perhaps, but that part hasn't been disproven. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:50 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: WMF is swimming in surplus floor space? Well, yeah, that's been confirmed actually. They have 11000 sq ft, plus 3000 sq ft, plus whatever they have at Wikia, and they only need the 11000 sq ft. Maybe they haven't moved in on the 11000 sq ft yet, but surely there's a deal signed already? Or is that too speculative? Personally, I think the tone of the piece was overly accusatory. It suggested that the WMF was compounding on its Wikia self-dealings, when in actuality, according to Brion, it is correcting them. Anyway, I see Greg has added an author's note to the piece, and an apology. I'm glad to see that. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Gregory Kohsthekoh...@gmail.com wrote: When the Watergate story broke, it was felt to be a largely contained story. Leslie Stahl once commented, **CBS sent me. It was a measure of how unimportant CBS thought the story was in the beginning. As more information seeped out, it became clear that it was a story with much wider implications. Consider me a Leslie Stahl, circa 1972. Hi Greg, I'm sorry to tramp on your Pulitzer aspirations, but it seems that we've once again encountered a disconnect between your world and the one the rest of us live in. Far be it for me to stop you from exposing WMF Inc.'s insidious real estate plans, but this has gotten a little too crazy even for this list. I've placed you on indefinite moderation with the goal of improving the signal:crazy ratio. I'm flying home today after attending Wikimania 2009 and a few days of post-conference traveling, and will be out of contact for the next 36 hours or so. Ryan may be available this weekend to tend to the moderation queue, but I'm afraid that you might find some delay in posting for the next few days. Have a great weekend. Austin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: Which accusations do you speak of? That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous comments) as anything else. Perhaps, but that part hasn't been disproven. Nor has the existence of a teapot in orbit. We do not disprove accusation, we prove them or shut the hell up. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Its a serious charge that is difficult to prove. The publicly released financial statements are too general in nature to be useful. The only way to prove/disprove this allegation and head off others is for the Foundation to become more transparent. It is natural for people to come to assumptions when information is not available to them. The currently available financials are simply not transparent enough to prove what is going on. From: Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 7:54:49 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/5 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: Which accusations do you speak of? That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous comments) as anything else. Perhaps, but that part hasn't been disproven. Nor has the existence of a teapot in orbit. We do not disprove accusation, we prove them or shut the hell up. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
The best way to end this in the future is to give the community a brief heads up along the line of Hey y'all, we will be moving to NEW ADDRESS effective DATE This lets us know beforehand that the business address is going to change, and allows the Foundation to leverage moving support from SF Wikimedians. From: geni geni...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 6:50:30 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm confirming the Wikimedia sublease. Erik Moeller has confirmed that the Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. Which accusations do you speak of? Now, only eight months later, are we to understand that instead of having “outgrown” its office space on Stillman Street, the WMF is swimming in surplus floor space, that they need to hire Grubb Ellis to sub-let it out to someone else? WMF is swimming in surplus floor space? Why in the heck would I apologize for scooping the story that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let office space, if only the speculative intentions were a little off-base (I did not realize that the WMF does not intend to stay at Stillman Street a while longer, since the Foundation failed to communicate any significant We're Moving Soon! announcement to the community). Spectacularly off-base. You threw in a bunch of accusations and innuendo based on a complete misunderstanding of events. The foundation doesn't talk about the particulars of it's office much but descriptions and photos do exist and It wouldn't have taken much work to realize that the amount described was pretty much consistent with the foundation's entire office. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.com: Its a serious charge that is difficult to prove. The publicly released financial statements are too general in nature to be useful. The only way to prove/disprove this allegation and head off others is for the Foundation to become more transparent. It is natural for people to come to assumptions when information is not available to them. The currently available financials are simply not transparent enough to prove what is going on. The Foundation has been sufficiently transparent. The reasons for leasing office space from Wikia were explained in detail when that deal was done (I think Sue [could have been someone else from WMF] explained it on this mailing list after people [probably me] drew attention to the need for an explanation). The plan to move into a single, larger office was mentioned ages ago. I don't see any need for an announcement of the old office going on the market, it is an obvious part of the process. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Geoffrey Plourdegeo.p...@yahoo.com wrote: The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. They haven't moved yet. I bet we can safely let this topic drop, though. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.com: The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.com: The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is probably the wrong term though. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). Is that all they have, a plan? They're offering to sublet their place based on nothing but a plan? They've only got a month to move out, and they haven't even found the place they're moving into yet? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). Is that all they have, a plan? They're offering to sublet their place based on nothing but a plan? They've only got a month to move out, and they haven't even found the place they're moving into yet? Of course not. They have begun implementing that plan. At no point during that implementation until they actually move is there anything particularly newsworthy. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/9/6 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org: On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). Is that all they have, a plan? They're offering to sublet their place based on nothing but a plan? They've only got a month to move out, and they haven't even found the place they're moving into yet? Of course not. They have begun implementing that plan. At no point during that implementation until they actually move is there anything particularly newsworthy. I'd consider their signing of a lease on a new place to be newsworthy. By the time they actually move I'd consider the move to be old news. And if they haven't yet signed a lease on a new place, I'd be quite surprised. In fact, I'm not even sure if they've started to actually move yet. The completion of the move is what isn't worthy of a press release. Personally I don't care whether the WMF tells us about its move or not. But waiting until after the move is completed to announce it is strange. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Correct, I meant announcement not press release. Announcing this move by placing a blurb on the foundation site, asking for assistance on the sf list, and letting the signpost know all would have headed this discussion off From: geni geni...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:43:57 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.com: The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release - it would only cover a single sentence (The WMF has more staff than it has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger offices.). I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is probably the wrong term though. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
It would appear that the Wikimedia Foundation is actively seeking to sub-let some of its office space? http://akahele.org/2009/09/wikimedia-foundation-subletting-space/ That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. Sue Gardner, Jimmy Wales, Michael Snow... someone please set us straight! Comment on the blog that scooped this story! -- Gregory Kohs ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Hoi, What would be more obvious then looking for other premises when the current ones are no longer sufficient.. Gee.. hiring new premises .. with sufficient elbow room for some time ?? I wonder.. Gee Gregory, you already mentioned that ... are they really looking for something new ? Then again, I am not asked to answer your query am I .. Thanks, GerardM 2009/9/4 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com It would appear that the Wikimedia Foundation is actively seeking to sub-let some of its office space? http://akahele.org/2009/09/wikimedia-foundation-subletting-space/ That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. Sue Gardner, Jimmy Wales, Michael Snow... someone please set us straight! Comment on the blog that scooped this story! -- Gregory Kohs ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Gerard Hoi Meijssen writes: ++ What would be more obvious then looking for other premises when the current ones are no longer sufficient.. Gee.. hiring new premises .. with sufficient elbow room for some time ?? I wonder.. Gee Gregory, you already mentioned that ... are they really looking for something new ? Then again, I am not asked to answer your query am I .. Thanks, GerardM ++ Sometimes, Gerard, your inability to comprehend even the most basic of principles, such as how a sub-lease works, is amusing and endearing. This may help you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublease I'm afraid there's no Simple English Wikipedia article to assist you further. It may be in your own best interest to refrain from any further commentary on this thread and leave discussion to those of us who understand basic property management fundamentals. Another possible explanation for what's happening at the WMF HQ is that the whole operation is preparing to move to new digs, and rather than break their lease, they're seeking to find a subtenant to avoid some financial penalty for early exit. I sort of set that aside, because I would have expected an open and transparent organization such as the WMF to have announced at some point that they were looking for an entirely different office home. We'll have clarification when Sue or Jimbo or Michael or Erik or Kat or some other WMF'er responds. Probably best that we just wait for some official explanation, rather than continue speculating about elbow room, which is what seems to be a problem, not a benefit. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Perhaps you could direct me to the WP article that explains why should they handicap themselves in any negotiations by making a public commitment to a future action. Maybe the landlord has pledged not to peek at this list? Or maybe the cunning folks at WMF have so many sock-puppet floating different stories that the landlord no longer pays any attention. (See *Bodyguard of Lies*.) On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote: Gerard Hoi Meijssen writes: ++ What would be more obvious then looking for other premises when the current ones are no longer sufficient.. Gee.. hiring new premises .. with sufficient elbow room for some time ?? I wonder.. Gee Gregory, you already mentioned that ... are they really looking for something new ? Then again, I am not asked to answer your query am I .. Thanks, GerardM ++ Sometimes, Gerard, your inability to comprehend even the most basic of principles, such as how a sub-lease works, is amusing and endearing. This may help you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublease I'm afraid there's no Simple English Wikipedia article to assist you further. It may be in your own best interest to refrain from any further commentary on this thread and leave discussion to those of us who understand basic property management fundamentals. Another possible explanation for what's happening at the WMF HQ is that the whole operation is preparing to move to new digs, and rather than break their lease, they're seeking to find a subtenant to avoid some financial penalty for early exit. I sort of set that aside, because I would have expected an open and transparent organization such as the WMF to have announced at some point that they were looking for an entirely different office home. We'll have clarification when Sue or Jimbo or Michael or Erik or Kat or some other WMF'er responds. Probably best that we just wait for some official explanation, rather than continue speculating about elbow room, which is what seems to be a problem, not a benefit. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Dennis C. During Cynolatry is tolerant so long as the dog is not denied an equal divinity with the deities of other faiths. - Ambrose Bierce http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cynolatry ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/4 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com: It would appear that the Wikimedia Foundation is actively seeking to sub-let some of its office space? http://akahele.org/2009/09/wikimedia-foundation-subletting-space/ That's curious, considering they had outgrown space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint. Sue Gardner, Jimmy Wales, Michael Snow... someone please set us straight! Comment on the blog that scooped this story! Nice try. Problems: 1)I don't think the WMF is the only occupant of the building 2)The amount described is pretty much consistent with the WMF's entire office there which means if it was the WMF subletting it is more consistent with a general move. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/4 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2)The amount described is pretty much consistent with the WMF's entire office there which means if it was the WMF subletting it is more consistent with a general move. Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space, once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: 2009/9/4 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2)The amount described is pretty much consistent with the WMF's entire office there which means if it was the WMF subletting it is more consistent with a general move. Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space, once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. Huh? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/4 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org: Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space, once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. Godommit, Fronk, you were only meant to reveal that on WR, where people might believe it! Now people will think you're just joking, and that I am too. How are we supposed to get a good price to benefit Wikia *now*? - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: 2009/9/4 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2)The amount described is pretty much consistent with the WMF's entire office there which means if it was the WMF subletting it is more consistent with a general move. Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space, once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. Huh? Is that really a useful contribution to a discussion? On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 6:53 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Huh? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:10 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/4 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org: Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space, once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. Godommit, Fronk, you were only meant to reveal that on WR, where people might believe it! Now people will think you're just joking, and that I am too. How are we supposed to get a good price to benefit Wikia *now*? - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l I'm guessing this means our inside guys at the DOJ and DOD have done their jobs and can be disposed of now? I'll be on the next plane to Bangkok to meet with our friend about the thing. -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
By the way, the rest of your quotes were misquotes, as I followed up my other Huhs with a comment. But in this case, I felt it was more courteous to ask Erik to clarify his comment rather than for me to try to guess what he meant by it. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Anthonywikim...@inbox.org wrote: By the way, the rest of your quotes were misquotes, as I followed up my other Huhs with a comment. But in this case, I felt it was more courteous to ask Erik to clarify his comment rather than for me to try to guess what he meant by it. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space... This part was serious (I think). ...once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. This part was a joke (I think). Specifically, he was joking about some people's tendencies to find conspiracy theories when none exist. -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space... This part was serious (I think). I think so too, but I'd rather hear it from Erik than hear your guess or guess at it myself. ...once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. This part was a joke (I think). Specifically, he was joking about some people's tendencies to find conspiracy theories when none exist. Right, yeah, that part was a joke, but does that mean the part about hoping to sublet the Stillman space was, serious, a joke, something else? It was an incredibly unprofessional answer. Unless the WMF's purpose is to confuse the issue, it should come up with a serious response. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Anthony wrote: On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space... This part was serious (I think). I think so too, but I'd rather hear it from Erik than hear your guess or guess at it myself. ...once we've covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology. This part was a joke (I think). Specifically, he was joking about some people's tendencies to find conspiracy theories when none exist. Right, yeah, that part was a joke, but does that mean the part about hoping to sublet the Stillman space was, serious, a joke, something else? It was an incredibly unprofessional answer. Unless the WMF's purpose is to confuse the issue, it should come up with a serious response. Chad's analysis was correct. The SF staff have been looking for a new office for some time, and last I heard they were in the process of negotiating a lease on a prospective space. Subletting the old office will be desirable at least until the lease there expires. -- Tim Starling ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Another possible explanation for what's happening at the WMF HQ is that the whole operation is preparing to move to new digs, and rather than break their lease, they're seeking to find a subtenant to avoid some financial penalty for early exit. I sort of set that aside, because I would have expected an open and transparent organization such as the WMF to have announced at some point that they were looking for an entirely different office home. Perhaps making such assumptions is the real problem here. While I'm not aware of any official announcement (and does that really warrant an announcement in any case? It's an open question) I had known for a while now that a relocation was planned. IIRC, I saw that in the latest annual report or something, and domas confirmed that when I asked. - -Mike -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkqhkzYACgkQst0AR/DaKHs7HwCgxVtvxR6U9mzPAN/ZFYzKc2wI a5wAnjvlWBauR7im4J+vQmKnCYv1p93/ =lCJJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Chad's analysis was correct. The SF staff have been looking for a new office for some time, and last I heard they were in the process of negotiating a lease on a prospective space. Subletting the old office will be desirable at least until the lease there expires. Thanks, I also see it was in the annual report that you're moving from the 3,000 sq ft place to an 11,000 sq ft one. I had been told (incorrectly) that the 3,000 sq ft was only a portion of the Stillman location, but after reading that this makes sense. Is the staff currently using the Wikia sublease space going to move too? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On 9/4/09 3:27 PM, Anthony wrote: On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Tim Starlingtstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Chad's analysis was correct. The SF staff have been looking for a new office for some time, and last I heard they were in the process of negotiating a lease on a prospective space. Subletting the old office will be desirable at least until the lease there expires. Thanks, I also see it was in the annual report that you're moving from the 3,000 sq ft place to an 11,000 sq ft one. I had been told (incorrectly) that the 3,000 sq ft was only a portion of the Stillman location, but after reading that this makes sense. The building we are currently in is physically subdivided into two spaces. Wikimedia occupies one part (3,000 sq ft) and another company occupies the other (I'm unsure the exact size, but it's larger than ours). Is the staff currently using the Wikia sublease space going to move too? Yes; the purpose of finding a larger space is to have enough room for our current and forseeable future staff. -- brion ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On 9/4/09, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: I think so too, but I'd rather hear it from Erik than hear your guess or guess at it myself. I'd rather go through a thread without seeing a one-word message indicating bewilderment at what was quite obviouisly a joke... but then, the world revolves around me about as much as it revolves around you (=not at all). Mark ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Mark Williamson node...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/4/09, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: I think so too, but I'd rather hear it from Erik than hear your guess or guess at it myself. I'd rather go through a thread without seeing a one-word message indicating bewilderment at what was quite obviouisly a joke... Sorry about the one line response. Can we move on now? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
So, not having known that 3,000 square feet was the sum total of the current WMF space on Stillman, my original but unpublished hunch was correct. I'll quote an e-mail I wrote Sept. 3rd, at 4:39 PM: ...If I had to formulate a theory, I'd say [Sue Gardner] thinks that she's hired enough [personnel] that they now have the gravitas to move into a new, bigger place of their own in San Francisco. Stillman Street was initially held up as a 'starter' home in San Francisco, so this is just the logical next step now that grant money is pouring in. A little bird suggested I ask if the Foundation will be filing a Form 990-T once it finds a tenant, as it would be a business activity over $1,000 unrelated to a non-profit mission and would thus possibly trigger IRS rules regarding Unrelated Business Income Tax (which are rather strict). Among other things, the 990-T is a public form, so it would force the Foundation to disclose further information on its operations. Then again, Wikipedia offers a very curious, opinion-based original research assessment of this factor here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrelated_Business_Income_Tax#UBIT_in_an_IRA This is possibly a myth. The sum of human knowledge, folks. -- Gregory Kohs ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote: A little bird suggested I ask if the Foundation will be filing a Form 990-T once it finds a tenant, as it would be a business activity over $1,000 unrelated to a non-profit mission and would thus possibly trigger IRS rules regarding Unrelated Business Income Tax (which are rather strict). Among other things, the 990-T is a public form, so it would force the Foundation to disclose further information on its operations. Ah Greg Greg Greg. You should have run this one past me first. Rents generally are not subject to UBIT. This is not, however, a reliance opinion, and can't be used to avoid penalties. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
