Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
William Pietri wrote: On 01/23/2010 02:59 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: William Pietri wrote: I note that just last night I was browsing EBay to see what a set of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica goes for. For $10, I could get it on DVD. Or I could pay hundreds for a physical set. I would never buy the DVD, but I might buy the physical set. And I already own a reproduction of the 3-volume 1768 edition. Out of curiosity, how does the three volume edition measure up? I'm not quite sure how to answer that. Is there something you wanted me to measure it against? Perhaps that's what's wrong with the question. If we judge those volumes strictly by 21st century standards most of the contents will fail miserably. The greatest value that these volumes provide is their contribution to the historical framework of knowledge. On-line communities are prone to a recentism that ignores how knowledge got to where it is and the collective effort and experience that accomplished this. Personally, I find it a delight, and am prone to flipping through it when I'm wondering what exactly an encyclopedia is. More for inspiration than knowledge, of course. But it's nice to see the familiar features: articles, large and small; redirects, see-alsos, illustrations, references; even a proto-NPOV, where on topics of dispute, both sides are explained. I find my copy a delight too, even with all the faux foxing to make it look old. I also love my copy of the 1701 second edition of Jeremy Collier's Great Historical, Geographical, and Poetical Dictionary. It doesn't use the word encyclopedia, but still shows enough characteristics to be called one. My favorite article: NEW-ZELAND, a large Country of /South America/, or /Antartickland/, discovered by the /Hollanders/ in 1642. It lies South of the Pacifick Sea, and far East of /New-Guiny/ and /Solomon/'s Island. It's not yet known whether it be an Island or Continent, there being no /European/ Colony settled there./ Baudr[and]/. The first edition of the Britannica did not include an article about New Zealand. My second-favorite thing about it is that the three volumes, which were published serially, are A-B, C-L, M-Z. I've always suspected they started out with a surplus of ambition and then realized what they were up against. And my favorite thing is the preface, which starts out, Utility ought to be the principle intention of every publication. Reading through it never fails to remind me what a great enterprise an encyclopedia is, both theirs and ours. I have a dozen or more encyclopedic works, among which I include biographical compendia. (I'm finding it tough to acquire the secon through eighth editions of the EB.) Comparing the way that each treats the same subject can be fascinating. The detailed articles about World War I in the 12th edition of the EB were no longer there for the 13th; the later printings of the 14th edition differed considerably from the earliest. The Enciclopedia Universal Ilustrada includes far more from Spanish speaking countries than what you might find in an English work. Depending on only one encyclopedia presents a risk of monotonic thinking. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On 01/23/2010 02:59 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: William Pietri wrote: I note that just last night I was browsing EBay to see what a set of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica goes for. For $10, I could get it on DVD. Or I could pay hundreds for a physical set. I would never buy the DVD, but I might buy the physical set. And I already own a reproduction of the 3-volume 1768 edition. Out of curiosity, how does the three volume edition measure up? I'm not quite sure how to answer that. Is there something you wanted me to measure it against? Personally, I find it a delight, and am prone to flipping through it when I'm wondering what exactly an encyclopedia is. More for inspiration than knowledge, of course. But it's nice to see the familiar features: articles, large and small; redirects, see-alsos, illustrations, references; even a proto-NPOV, where on topics of dispute, both sides are explained. My second-favorite thing about it is that the three volumes, which were published serially, are A-B, C-L, M-Z. I've always suspected they started out with a surplus of ambition and then realized what they were up against. And my favorite thing is the preface, which starts out, Utility ought to be the principle intention of every publication. Reading through it never fails to remind me what a great enterprise an encyclopedia is, both theirs and ours. If there isn't a copy in the WMF office, I'm glad to leave mine there upon request for a while. William ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 8:09 AM, William Pietri will...@scissor.com wrote: On 01/23/2010 02:59 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: William Pietri wrote: I note that just last night I was browsing EBay to see what a set of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica goes for. For $10, I could get it on DVD. Or I could pay hundreds for a physical set. I would never buy the DVD, but I might buy the physical set. And I already own a reproduction of the 3-volume 1768 edition. Out of curiosity, how does the three volume edition measure up? I'm not quite sure how to answer that. Is there something you wanted me to measure it against? Personally, I find it a delight, and am prone to flipping through it when I'm wondering what exactly an encyclopedia is. More for inspiration than knowledge, of course. But it's nice to see the familiar features: articles, large and small; redirects, see-alsos, illustrations, references; even a proto-NPOV, where on topics of dispute, both sides are explained. My second-favorite thing about it is that the three volumes, which were published serially, are A-B, C-L, M-Z. I've always suspected they started out with a surplus of ambition and then realized what they were up against. And my favorite thing is the preface, which starts out, Utility ought to be the principle intention of every publication. Reading through it never fails to remind me what a great enterprise an encyclopedia is, both theirs and ours. If there isn't a copy in the WMF office, I'm glad to leave mine there upon request for a while. In terms of started out with a surplus of ambition and then realized what they were up against. I think nothing surpasses the preface statement to Samuel Johnson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Johnson's A Dictionary of the English Language 1775, which was a remarkable (and solo) attempt to make a complete dictionary. I think it rings true for the efforts we make on-wiki today - still chasing the sun: ...the writer of dictionaries; whom mankind have considered, not as the pupil, but the slave of science, the pioneer of literature, doomed only to remove rubbish and clear obstructions from the paths of Learning and Genius, who press forward to conquest and glory, without bestowing a smile on the humble drudge that facilitates their progress. Every other author may aspire to praise; the lexicographer can only hope to escape reproach, and even this negative recompense has been yet granted to very few…. When first I engaged in this work, I resolved to leave neither words nor things unexamined, and pleased myself with a prospect of the hours which I should revel away in feasts of literature, the obscure recesses of northern learning, which I should enter and ransack, the treasures with which I expected every search into those neglected mines to reward my labour, and the triumph with which I should display my acquisitions to mankind… But these were the dreams of a poet doomed at last to wake a lexicographer. I soon found that it is too late to look for instruments, when the work calls for execution, and that whatever abilities I had brought to my task, with those I must finally perform it. To deliberate whenever I doubted, to enquire whenever I was ignorant, would have protracted the undertaking without end, and, perhaps, without much improvement; for I did not find by my first experiments, that what I had not of my own was easily to be obtained: I saw that one enquiry only gave occasion to another, that book referred to book, that to search was not always to find, and to find was not always to be informed; and that thus to pursue perfection, was, like the first inhabitants of Arcadia, to chase the sun, which, when they had reached the hill where he seemed to rest, was still beheld at the same distance from them. Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language 1775 -Liam [[witty lama]] wittylama.com/blog Peace, love metadata William ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
Hello, Why would anybody want to buy it if it is possible to download it for free? Make a page on the wmf site where people can buy a hd with wikimedia content and donated it to a school or something like that sounds more like a nice idea. Best regards, Huib 2010/1/21, ster...@aol.com ster...@aol.com: store it on memory chip or HD and sell it ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- The soldiers graves are great preachers of peace http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Abigor ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
It s possible to buy a usb key with okawix http://www.okawix.com - Original Message - From: ster...@aol.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia Why would anybody want to buy it if it is possible to download it for free? download is impractical, it takes too long. Often you want it offline, when no internet-connection is available. Or you want to have a fixed version, not overwritten by updates. Or you want to have it in case it stops and goes offline and is maybe no longer available one day. The German version is being sold in Germany, but not the larger English version. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
There's also the wikireader: http://thewikireader.com/index.html I've played with one of these and I must say, they're pretty awesome. wittylama.com/blog Peace, love metadata On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Pascal Martin pmar...@linterweb.fr wrote: It s possible to buy a usb key with okawix http://www.okawix.com - Original Message - From: ster...@aol.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia Why would anybody want to buy it if it is possible to download it for free? download is impractical, it takes too long. Often you want it offline, when no internet-connection is available. Or you want to have a fixed version, not overwritten by updates. Or you want to have it in case it stops and goes offline and is maybe no longer available one day. The German version is being sold in Germany, but not the larger English version. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: There's also the wikireader: http://thewikireader.com/index.html I've played with one of these and I must say, they're pretty awesome. wittylama.com/blog Peace, love metadata On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Pascal Martin pmar...@linterweb.fr wrote: It s possible to buy a usb key with okawix http://www.okawix.com - Original Message - From: ster...@aol.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia Why would anybody want to buy it if it is possible to download it for free? download is impractical, it takes too long. Often you want it offline, when no internet-connection is available. Or you want to have a fixed version, not overwritten by updates. Or you want to have it in case it stops and goes offline and is maybe no longer available one day. The German version is being sold in Germany, but not the larger English version. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l I can second the WikiReader! But yes: we do not charge for access to our content. Both the sites and the database dumps are usable without any charges, and have been since inception. If people want to do things with that content--download, analyze, sell, create a business model around it--they're all certainly allowed to do that, as long as they follow the license and give credit where credit is due :) The WMF's role is to facilitate generation and dissemination of content, not hiding it behind a paywall. I'm glad that products like the wikireader and other offline media like DVDs exist. It means that people find our work valuable, and that means a lot to me. -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
wikireader doesn't say whether the data is just plain text or somehow encrypted in their format. (I couldn't find it) I don't need pictures, just plain wikipedia-text. Best with the discussion-pages and all that. Suitable for keyword-searches, maybe even from program or batch-file ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 14:01, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: I can second the WikiReader! But yes: we do not charge for access to our content. Both the sites and the database dumps are usable without any charges, and have been since inception. If people want to do things with that content--download, analyze, sell, create a business model around it--they're all certainly allowed to do that, as long as they follow the license and give credit where credit is due :) Apart from that dumps are often outdated, images aren't available, et cetera Or were there changes about that recently? g ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 14:01, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: I can second the WikiReader! But yes: we do not charge for access to our content. Both the sites and the database dumps are usable without any charges, and have been since inception. If people want to do things with that content--download, analyze, sell, create a business model around it--they're all certainly allowed to do that, as long as they follow the license and give credit where credit is due :) Apart from that dumps are often outdated, images aren't available, et cetera Or were there changes about that recently? g ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Last I heard, all the dumps were coming in at fairly regular intervals, barring the enwiki full-history-all-namespaces dump. Image dumps are needed, yes. The OP said he just needs the text anyway :) -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On 01/21/2010 12:20 AM, Huib Laurens wrote: Why would anybody want to buy it if it is possible to download it for free? This is a topic that's getting a lot of attention. For example, Kevin Kelly lists 8 things that are better than free: http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/01/better_than_fre.php In our case, some of them don't apply. But I could see us making use of personalization, interpretation, embodiment, and patronage. I also think we could sell a sense of association if we wanted to. Social status is another good along these lines (think premium members and first-class tickets) but I don't immediately see a way Wikipedia could make use of that. I note that just last night I was browsing EBay to see what a set of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica goes for. For $10, I could get it on DVD. Or I could pay hundreds for a physical set. I would never buy the DVD, but I might buy the physical set. And I already own a reproduction of the 3-volume 1768 edition. Any practical reason I'd come up with for purchases like that, or my Addams Family pinball machine, would be tenuous justifications. I buy those things not for the things themselves, but because I love the idea of those things. It seems reasonable to me that people love the idea of Wikipedia just as much. William ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 5:11 AM, ster...@aol.com wrote: wikireader doesn't say whether the data is just plain text or somehow encrypted in their format. (I couldn't find it) I don't need pictures, just plain wikipedia-text. Best with the discussion-pages and all that. Suitable for keyword-searches, maybe even from program or batch-file Wikireader is article text only, no images or discussion pages. They include a limited set of formatting and other specialized code for layout in addition to the text, but nowhere near as extensive as raw Wikitext would be. It is all heavily compressed to make it fit in the space available, but that's entirely reversible of course. -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] sell wikipedia
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: Last I heard, all the dumps were coming in at fairly regular intervals, barring the enwiki full-history-all-namespaces dump. Image dumps are needed, yes. The OP said he just needs the text anyway :) -Chad Image dumps aren't really needed since you can hook into the foreign file repos (aka InstantCommons) for most things (except for offline uses), And it's a bit hard to dump images on most projects due to fairuse (or the languages equivalent laws) images, commons would be the most easiest projects that you could dump almost all the images from. -Peachey ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
