Re: Advisory referendum, not decision [Was: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
With my Secretary of the GNOME Foundation hat firmly on: On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 09:01:34PM +0100, David Neary wrote: Candidacies must be announced prior to November 14, 2005 or thereabouts (which has already passed). Currently, I count 8 nominees (Federico, Christian, Jonathan, Bastien, Vincent, Behdad, Quim, David). I count 12: Jeff, Federico, Behdad, German, Christian, Vincent, Luis, Jonathan, Bastien, Anne, Quim, Dave (me) There have been a problem with Anne's post to foundation announce, it did reach the mailing list but when I went there to handle the bounces my filters which cleans up bounces had apparently erronously deleted her post. I can confirm that a copy of her mail to foundation list was also sent to the announce list too. The board is 11 people, including Tim. The executive director (the title) is not a member of the board. Tim Ney (the individual) is. So there is no vacancy on the board. Confirmed. I would also like to confirm that the board expected the referendum to be binding and that there is no doubts that the upcoming elections have 7 seats open. I hope this clarifies some of the situation, Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat http://redhat.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Number of valid nominees [Was: Advisory referendum, not decision [Was: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]]
On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 07:10:29PM -0300, Germán Poó Caamaño wrote: El jue, 17-11-2005 a las 15:09 -0500, Dominic Lachowicz escribió: Hi Dave, I count 12: Jeff, Federico, Behdad, German, Christian, Vincent, Luis, Jonathan, Bastien, Anne, Quim, Dave (me) Only 8 have sent any mail to foundation-announce, which is required by the election's rules. So Jeff's, Anne's, German's, and Luis' candidicies appear to be either invalid or incomplete by the foundation's rules. Or perhaps they are blocked by some mailing-list admin bot. http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2005/rules.html http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-announce/2005-November/thread.html Otherwise, thanks for clearing that up. You can see the archives of foundation-list for those statements that were send to both lists. For instance: Anne sent it to both lists according to: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00028.html Luis has written that he sent to both lists. (I don't know which is the statement valid for Jeff). And I sent it to both lists according to: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00039.html So, I guess the announcements are still waiting for approval on foundation-announce list. No, they were discarded by the SPAM cleanup bot. It is my fault, see my other post, the candidacy should still be considered valid, I take the blame for that, sorry about this ! Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat http://redhat.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
Jeff, On 11/16/05, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: something so fundamental to the process: Yes, people do run for election so that those they do not trust are not elected. Surprise? Not even remotely. By itself, this is unsurprising. But coupled with: 1) The small number of people who have run for the board, and my opinion of their general qualifications and 2) These people's own admissions of not getting anything done and inability to effect change (usually advertized in their candidacy statements) it's hard to view it as anyhing but insulting. Vote for me. I haven't gotten anything done, and I probably won't get anything done next time. But at least I'm not $CANDIDATE is a lousy platform. Consider that and the fact that the board has gotten smaller so that the above class of people no longer feel compelled to run in order to keep vagrants off the board. I personally read the recent referendum as Let's make the board smaller so that the seat-fillers can leave, rather than let other qualified people try their hand at it. Yes, this is how democracy works. Surprising? No. But all the same, I won't begrudge Andreas' gripings. His is a small complaint when compared to the big middle finger given by some who have run in the past... Best, Dom ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Advisory referendum, not decision [Was: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On 11/17/05, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Jeff Waugh wrote: That said, the referendum was *advisory* only, as it falls to the directors alone to make a change to the number of seats on the board. It has yet to be announced (by the board) that the number of seats will actually change. :-) The board has previously said that we would abide by the decision of the referendum (in the board meeting where it was proposed), so I don't consider any announcement necessary. I'm calling shenanigans. Everyone go get your brooms. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Advisory referendum, not decision [Was: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
Hi, Just setting some facts straight. Dominic Lachowicz wrote: But you bring up a good point - this referendum was advisory only, which is a point that I (and perhaps others) overlooked. That leaves me with a few questions and only 7-8 days until the election is scheduled (if http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2005/rules.html is up-to-date). Given that jrb announced that the board had asked nominations to be pushed bach to this evening (assuming that 24 hours extension meant 24 hours from the moment where he announced), that pushes everything back 3 days. Candidacies must be announced prior to November 14, 2005 or thereabouts (which has already passed). Currently, I count 8 nominees (Federico, Christian, Jonathan, Bastien, Vincent, Behdad, Quim, David). I count 12: Jeff, Federico, Behdad, German, Christian, Vincent, Luis, Jonathan, Bastien, Anne, Quim, Dave (me) Note that Quim officially nominated Jeff on the 16th, before jrb's announcement of the deadline extension. I guess the election committee will make that decision, though. Will this be 8 nominees to fill 11 seats? Or 12 seats (11 board seats + Tim's vacancy)? The board is 11 people, including Tim. The executive director (the title) is not a member of the board. Tim Ney (the individual) is. So there is no vacancy on the board. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lyon, France ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 09:46 +0100, Quim Gil wrote: I also would assume that announcement is valid enough. We haven't got that many candidates and I guess the Foundation can be flexible enouh to accept this candidacy. This is a problem which has to be solved by the election committee. I remember that Miguel de Icaza one year was announcing his candidacy a little after the time limit and his candidacy was not accepted by the committee. He also was on travel and was a very serious candidate for the board. So we do have some precedence in these matters. Regards Anne -- Anne Østergaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
If the announce was not clear or if the informations can not be easily found, please send a mail to the committee so it can be improved next year. An improvement would be to include some comments on the campaign. I don't know if it should be about rules or netiquette. For instance: - Recommendation to send a brief email announcing the will to present candidacy. - Allowed use of lists and etc to introduce and promote candidacies. - Access to planet.gnome.org (at least during the eection period) to those candidates with blog. - Cool and uncool (?) ways to introduce and promote your candidacy. This would help disoriented new candidates (like myself) moving appropriately between silence and abuse or offtopic. Not that I'm giving much importance to campaign, nor that I think we should spent much energies campaigning. It's just that there are no comments about this part of the election process, in contrast to other parts that are so well defined. -- Quim Gil http://interactors.coop | http://desdeamericaconamor.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
Anne Østergaard wrote: I remember that Miguel de Icaza one year was announcing his candidacy a little after the time limit and his candidacy was not accepted by the committee. He also was on travel and was a very serious candidate for the board. With the difference that he had not expressed the intention of running during the period when candidacies were open on foundation-list. Unlike Jeff. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On Wed, November 16, 2005 10:33, Quim Gil wrote: If the announce was not clear or if the informations can not be easily found, please send a mail to the committee so it can be improved next year. An improvement would be to include some comments on the campaign. I don't know if it should be about rules or netiquette. For instance: - Recommendation to send a brief email announcing the will to present candidacy. Isn't sending the nomination mail better? :-) But I understand what you mean (announcing the will is easy fast to do). - Allowed use of lists and etc to introduce and promote candidacies. Well, foundation-list is here for that. I'm not sure this would be appropriate on other lists. quote page=http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2005/rules.html; All discussion related to the elections should be held on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Members are invited to ask questions to one or all candidates on that list. /quote - Access to planet.gnome.org (at least during the eection period) to those candidates with blog. They already have access: since they're candidates, they're Foundation members and so they can be on the planet. Sending a mail to Jeff is enough. People might now know it, though. - Cool and uncool (?) ways to introduce and promote your candidacy. Not sure what you mean here :-) This would help disoriented new candidates (like myself) moving appropriately between silence and abuse or offtopic. So, it seems you're looking for a candidate howto :-) This sounds like a good idea. I'm adding an item to the committee todo list. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 11:28 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: On Wed, November 16, 2005 10:33, Quim Gil wrote: If the announce was not clear or if the informations can not be easily found, please send a mail to the committee so it can be improved next year. An improvement would be to include some comments on the campaign. I don't know if it should be about rules or netiquette. For instance: - Recommendation to send a brief email announcing the will to present candidacy. Isn't sending the nomination mail better? :-) But I understand what you mean (announcing the will is easy fast to do). - Allowed use of lists and etc to introduce and promote candidacies. Well, foundation-list is here for that. I'm not sure this would be appropriate on other lists. quote page=http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2005/rules.html; All discussion related to the elections should be held on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Members are invited to ask questions to one or all candidates on that list. /quote - Access to planet.gnome.org (at least during the eection period) to those candidates with blog. They already have access: since they're candidates, they're Foundation members and so they can be on the planet. Sending a mail to Jeff is enough. People might now know it, though. - Cool and uncool (?) ways to introduce and promote your candidacy. Not sure what you mean here :-) This would help disoriented new candidates (like myself) moving appropriately between silence and abuse or offtopic. So, it seems you're looking for a candidate howto :-) This sounds like a good idea. I'm adding an item to the committee todo list. Vincent you have been doing a wonderful and very large job on the election committee. I thank you sincerely for this fine work that you and the rest of the committee has done. We need to trust you guys 100%. But I would like to say this sooner and not later that I think that you as a candidate yourself should not at the same time be sitting on the election committee- for your own sake as a serious and very skilled candidate to a seat on the board. Regards Anne -- Anne Østergaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
But I would like to say this sooner and not later that I think that you as a candidate yourself should not at the same time be sitting on the election committee- for your own sake as a serious and very skilled candidate to a seat on the board. I didn't comment anything about Vincent's concerns about being a candidate and in the comittee as well because I saw clearly no problem with it. If there is any kind of incompatiblity, I very much prefer Vincent leaving the comittee and staying as a candidate. Gosh, we are not the EU Parliament or the US Congress. Neither have we 28 candidates to choose from. If we keep kicking off candidates for procedural reasons we will end up not needing to vote at all. -- Quim Gil http://interactors.coop | http://desdeamericaconamor.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
As a member of membership committee I can honestly say that Vincent's instant leaving membership committee would end up problems with elections as well. That must be the real reason that kept him in committee still. Even though we have experienced some as members in past, other members of membership commitee apart from Vincent are all new commitee members (as far as I know), and we haven't accomplished any election before. Moreover, there's a new system that elections will be running with new Foundation Membership management system using modern databases instead of old text based storage. I also want to mention that we owe these to Vincent's coordinating stuff and invaluable work on this system. Since this system is new and some parts of it unfinished, it seems like Vincent choosed to stay on committee even though he declared his candidacy. My previous talks with Vincent is that he will be able to pass management to committee as system is completely finished and managable with web interface instead of mysql clients before elections start. I just wanted to clearify this issue incase there're some who are not aware of Vincent's status about being committee member and a candidacy. I totally understand concerns about this, and I'm not a lawyer of Vincent Untz, but I just wanted to drop in to the issue and give some information about it as a member of membership committee. Maybe I'm not objective enough as I really think Vincent will be successful in Board as well. Being someone worked with Vincent on membership commitee and I personally trust him, but I'm pretty sure he'll leave committee as soon as he complete the work on new membership system. I have not information if there's something against this situation in bylaws of foundation, but I hope there's nothing against it. On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 12:12 +0100, Anne Østergaard wrote: On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 11:28 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: On Wed, November 16, 2005 10:33, Quim Gil wrote: If the announce was not clear or if the informations can not be easily found, please send a mail to the committee so it can be improved next year. An improvement would be to include some comments on the campaign. I don't know if it should be about rules or netiquette. For instance: - Recommendation to send a brief email announcing the will to present candidacy. Isn't sending the nomination mail better? :-) But I understand what you mean (announcing the will is easy fast to do). - Allowed use of lists and etc to introduce and promote candidacies. Well, foundation-list is here for that. I'm not sure this would be appropriate on other lists. quote page=http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2005/rules.html; All discussion related to the elections should be held on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Members are invited to ask questions to one or all candidates on that list. /quote - Access to planet.gnome.org (at least during the eection period) to those candidates with blog. They already have access: since they're candidates, they're Foundation members and so they can be on the planet. Sending a mail to Jeff is enough. People might now know it, though. - Cool and uncool (?) ways to introduce and promote your candidacy. Not sure what you mean here :-) This would help disoriented new candidates (like myself) moving appropriately between silence and abuse or offtopic. So, it seems you're looking for a candidate howto :-) This sounds like a good idea. I'm adding an item to the committee todo list. Vincent you have been doing a wonderful and very large job on the election committee. I thank you sincerely for this fine work that you and the rest of the committee has done. We need to trust you guys 100%. But I would like to say this sooner and not later that I think that you as a candidate yourself should not at the same time be sitting on the election committee- for your own sake as a serious and very skilled candidate to a seat on the board. Regards Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On Wed, 2005-16-11 at 13:14 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Quim Gil wrote: Gosh, we are not the EU Parliament or the US Congress. Neither have we 28 candidates to choose from. If we keep kicking off candidates for procedural reasons we will end up not needing to vote at all. Hear, hear. A bit of perspective will go a long way. What ever happened to trust? It went out of the window with all the talk about untrustworthy candidates in the recent referendum debate? Anderas -- Prof. Dr. Andreas J. Guelzow Dept. of Mathematical Computing Sciences Concordia University College of Alberta signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On 11/16/05, Andreas J. Guelzow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2005-16-11 at 13:14 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Quim Gil wrote: Gosh, we are not the EU Parliament or the US Congress. Neither have we 28 candidates to choose from. If we keep kicking off candidates for procedural reasons we will end up not needing to vote at all. Hear, hear. A bit of perspective will go a long way. What ever happened to trust? It went out of the window with all the talk about untrustworthy candidates in the recent referendum debate? To be very, very clear, I never said anyone was untrustworthy, just that people were running out of a sense of obligation. If anything, those people are so dedicated to GNOME that they are more trustworthy than the average candidate, not less. Luis ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]
On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 08:39 +0100, Anne Østergaard wrote: Could we please have a full list of all the candidates who actually announced there candidacies for the GNOME Board of Directors within the time limit? Hi Anne (and others), For a number of reasons (totally unrelated to Jeff), the current board contacted Vincent a couple days ago to ask him and the elections committee to keep open the nomination period. We have an additional announcement that is relevant to the elections, and felt like it would affect people's decision to run. It was poorly executed, as we wanted to send out both mails yesterday and didn't manage to. Thanks for your patience, -Jonathan signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections
Hi, Le vendredi 11 novembre 2005 à 12:05 +0100, Quim Gil a écrit : Being a candidate - If you are a member of the GNOME Foundation and are interested in running for election, you may (...) before November 14th 2005 (23:59 UTC). This is my first election period in the GNOME Foundation, so I'm surprised by the lack of candidates few days before the deadline. :) Is it always like this? Yes. Have people found a electoral strategy that shows better results if presenting candidacy right before the deadline? I don't think so. But maybe we should study the results of previous elections ;-) Are the vets waiting for the last minute? Are the newbies too shy to throw themselves on the dance floor before it's strictly needed? Is it real that a percentage of the board is integrated by people that had to become candidates because of the lack of candidates? Well, maybe we could ask this question to the candidates who will nominate themselves at the last minute :-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections
On 11/11/05, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being a candidate - If you are a member of the GNOME Foundation and are interested in running for election, you may (...) before November 14th 2005 (23:59 UTC). This is my first election period in the GNOME Foundation, so I'm surprised by the lack of candidates few days before the deadline. :) Is it always like this? Yes, it's precisely why I voted yes on reducing the number of directors. I felt the other side had a lot of strong arguments for voting no, but I don't think it makes any sense given that only a few people care much about being on the board anyway as this obviously demonstrates. I thought things might change this time because of the huge discussion (in particular, Jeff's emails) and so I was a little hesitant to vote the way I did, but now I'm feeling very satisfied that I voted correctly. BTW, speaking as just an individual, I STRONGLY encourage everyone to give special consideration to voting FOR those who nominated themselves early. I personally feel that these people are those who really want to be on the board and make it better. According to my quick rescanning of the archives (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), this list includes: Quim Gil Dave Neary I'll be voting for both and will likely include any that send in their candidacy *soon*. I may still vote for those that nominate at the last minute, but I will count it as a mark against them. I personally encourage others to do likewise. Just my $0.02, Elijah ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections
quote who=Quim Gil This is my first election period in the GNOME Foundation, so I'm surprised by the lack of candidates few days before the deadline. :) So, I'm planning to run again this year, but I'm all caught up in the middle of the BadgerBadgerBadger tour, so haven't had time to sit down and write my candidacy mail. Just for some context. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2006: Dunedin, New Zealand http://linux.conf.au/ Free software never simply picks up its marbles and goes home. - Jonathan Corbet, LWN ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections
En/na Jeff Waugh ha escrit: So, I'm planning to run again this year, but I'm all caught up in the middle of the BadgerBadgerBadger tour, so haven't had time to sit down and write my candidacy mail. Just for some context. :-) Thanks! Three lines written in a rush like these help *a lot* to the election process and the democratic health of the Foundation. I encourage anyone having in mind to run for election to drop a couple of lines announcing the intention as soon as possible. Then you will have time to write the proper introduction (I understand this, it took me a while to write mine). -- Quim Gil http://interactors.coop | http://desdeamericaconamor.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
