Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
The Board's finances seem to be OK right now, and I know that advisory board members have generally been ready to contribute for specific things that help the project. Meanwhile, our sysadmins seem overworked, causing understandable delays for simple requests. Now seems like a good time to pay someone so that requests for new accounts, mailing lists, bugzilla products, etc, get done almost immediately. It simple stuff, but that's why it's important. It could make a noticeable everyday difference to how we grow and work together. -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 12:05:59PM +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: Meanwhile, our sysadmins seem overworked, causing understandable delays for simple requests. Now seems like a good time to pay someone so that requests for new accounts, mailing lists, bugzilla products, etc, get done almost immediately. New accounts and new bugzilla products are not a sysadmin task. Although of course new accounts can be done by someone who is hired (or sysadmins), as long as procedures are followed. Mailing list setup is broken. Hiring someone to figure it all out might be a good idea; because currently I do not setup mailing lists just because I do not want to figure out how. I'd like to know what this person would do in daily tasks (concretely). The ideal sysadmin just makes existing tasks take less amounts of work. Note that we do can find enough persons willing to be a part time sysadmin (without either hiring or specifically requesting). The real problem is that usually they aren't known. Further, known persons are usually overworked with other things, so making them a sysadmin would not help. Don't really see a solution though. Perhaps we should give a random person the ability to do lots of damage. -- Regards, Olav ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 15:43 +0200, Olav Vitters wrote: On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 12:05:59PM +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: Meanwhile, our sysadmins seem overworked, causing understandable delays for simple requests. Now seems like a good time to pay someone so that requests for new accounts, mailing lists, bugzilla products, etc, get done almost immediately. New accounts and new bugzilla products are not a sysadmin task. Although of course new accounts can be done by someone who is hired (or sysadmins), as long as procedures are followed. Mailing list setup is broken. Hiring someone to figure it all out might be a good idea; because currently I do not setup mailing lists just because I do not want to figure out how. I'd like to know what this person would do in daily tasks (concretely). The ideal sysadmin just makes existing tasks take less amounts of work. I'm not so interested in the precise job title. I'd just like someone to do a) The simple little administrative things such as accounts, bugzilla additions, new mailing lists, etc. b) Relatively simple installations and updates and other stuff that you are more capable of listing than me. c) Clever unexpected things that syadmins tend to do, if we find someone that wonderful, but a) and b) would be quite enough if don't. Paying someone would mean that their time is reserved for this. I don't mind if they are partly idle because there isn't enough for them to do - the purpose of an employee should be to get things done, not to be busy. I just don't want to wait for things or have to be demanding to volunteers that don't have time. Note that we do can find enough persons willing to be a part time sysadmin (without either hiring or specifically requesting). The real problem is that usually they aren't known. Further, known persons are usually overworked with other things, so making them a sysadmin would not help. Don't really see a solution though. Perhaps we should give a random person the ability to do lots of damage. -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 13:35 -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote: On 6/23/07, Bruno Boaventura [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 12:05 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: Meanwhile, our sysadmins seem overworked, causing understandable delays for simple requests. Now seems like a good time to pay someone so that requests for new accounts, mailing lists, bugzilla products, etc, get done almost immediately. I'd like to help, but I need some training to do these things. I say exactly the same. I think it's time to add more contributors on sysadmin. Me and Diego are very interested to contribute in many areas on GNOME. We have time, motivation and love, but we need help to start. I'm a person who can learn quickly. Diego, ready to work? I am. Cheers! -- brunobol - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://live.gnome.org/BrunoBoaventura http://blogs.gnome.org/portal/brunbol ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
Hi Murray, Selon Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ... Meanwhile, our sysadmins seem overworked, causing understandable delays for simple requests. Now seems like a good time to pay someone so that requests for new accounts, mailing lists, bugzilla products, etc, get done almost immediately. It's a nice idea, based on a false assumption, I'm afraid. The Board's finances seem to be OK right now, and I know that advisory board members have generally been ready to contribute for specific things that help the project. Our finances are balanced. That means we have roughly the same aount coming in as we have going out - except for some savings that we've made over the last year by not having any full-time employee (these are one-off savings, as soon as we hire someone we'll be balanced again, but with a slightly bigger bank account balance). So I don't think we have the money to hire a part-time sysadmin, and I think we'd have difficulty finding one (to work part-time). It's certainly something worth thinking about, but the answer will likely be we can't (yet) afford it. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
On 6/23/07, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Bruno Boaventura I think it's time to add more contributors on sysadmin. Me and Diego are very interested to contribute in many areas on GNOME. We have time, motivation and love, but we need help to start. I'm a person who can learn quickly. I appreciate your enthusiasm, and there's every chance that we will take up both your offers. However, our experience shows that 'more' does not always mean 'better'. Don't be disappointed though -- that's just the gut reaction you're going to get from the team straight away. That said, there is work going on at the moment to improve the mechanism of creating and approving accounts, which will allow us to parallelise the easy bit. The hard bit, as always, is social. Often, it takes way longer to get confirmations from peers than it does to create accounts and so on. - Jeff I am going to disagree with you here. We absolutely need to change a few things. Getting anything on the GNOME infrastructure takes a hell of a long time, for no good reason. Here are the bits we need better communication/more people on: 1. Planet We absolutely need a team around this. The delays make no sense 2. Foundation membership We need better communication around this. Better communication would be facilitated by having more people involved 3. SVN stuff Creation of these things are slow. Lastly, we need to stop being hostile to people trying to help. I offered to help with the foundation membership and was rebuffed and now you just rebuffed Diego. It pisses me the hell off to watch the old guard rebuff people like myself who are merely trying to help. Ever wonder why KDE is better at attracting new people? Because they seem to understand that people are not perfect when coming to them! Annoyed, Corey ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
quote who=Bruno Boaventura I think it's time to add more contributors on sysadmin. Me and Diego are very interested to contribute in many areas on GNOME. We have time, motivation and love, but we need help to start. I'm a person who can learn quickly. I appreciate your enthusiasm, and there's every chance that we will take up both your offers. However, our experience shows that 'more' does not always mean 'better'. Don't be disappointed though -- that's just the gut reaction you're going to get from the team straight away. That said, there is work going on at the moment to improve the mechanism of creating and approving accounts, which will allow us to parallelise the easy bit. The hard bit, as always, is social. Often, it takes way longer to get confirmations from peers than it does to create accounts and so on. - Jeff -- Ubuntu Live 2007: Portland, OR, USA http://www.ubuntulive.com/ Building a Kernel is a requirement for Securing Servers. - Oscar Plameras ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 19:29 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Hi Murray, Selon Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ... Meanwhile, our sysadmins seem overworked, causing understandable delays for simple requests. Now seems like a good time to pay someone so that requests for new accounts, mailing lists, bugzilla products, etc, get done almost immediately. It's a nice idea, based on a false assumption, I'm afraid. The Board's finances seem to be OK right now, and I know that advisory board members have generally been ready to contribute for specific things that help the project. Our finances are balanced. That means we have roughly the same aount coming in as we have going out - except for some savings that we've made over the last year by not having any full-time employee (these are one-off savings, as soon as we hire someone we'll be balanced again, but with a slightly bigger bank account balance). So I don't think we have the money to hire a part-time sysadmin, and I think we'd have difficulty finding one (to work part-time). It's certainly something worth thinking about, but the answer will likely be we can't (yet) afford it. So, I think you should please ask the advisory board, and then I think you should try to find somebody. They might say No, but in the past they've wanted to be asked more often, because they want to help. There are plenty of part-time student sysadmins at universities and colleges, so you should be able to find someone similar for GNOME. You don't need a genius - you just need someone who is paid to have time to do stuff. -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
quote who=Murray Cumming So, I think you should please ask the advisory board, and then I think you should try to find somebody. They might say No, but in the past they've wanted to be asked more often, because they want to help. There are plenty of part-time student sysadmins at universities and colleges, so you should be able to find someone similar for GNOME. You don't need a genius - you just need someone who is paid to have time to do stuff. It is quite clear that we do not have the funds to do this right now. It has been on the agenda for quite some time, but we must spend responsibly. We are in the process of hiring for a position that will open up opportunities such as this in due time. Your suggestion is noted; we've said that it has been a desire for the Foundation for some time -- please do not unreasonably agitate to get what you want immediately. - Jeff -- Ubuntu Live 2007: Portland, OR, USA http://www.ubuntulive.com/ Orphaned farm-boy hero helps save world against bad-guys, begins a journey of self-discovery, and makes interesting friends. Passable. - Andrew Bennetts on Star Wars ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
quote who=Corey Burger 1. Planet We absolutely need a team around this. The delays make no sense There haven't been significant delays recently. Vincent has been managing the GSoC folks to help out, which has been great. Strong editorship is one of the reasons why Planet GNOME is more readable than many other Planets, and when I've brought up potential policy changes in the past, plenty of people have suggested I keep it that way. It's in SVN, so if I'm hit by a bus or there's a crisis when I'm not around, others can take the wheel. 2. Foundation membership We need better communication around this. That's the membership committee, which is very much a separate issue to the one raised in this thread. Better communication would be facilitated by having more people involved Quoting this separately to point out how little sense it makes. More people does not result in better communication. :-) 3. SVN stuff Creation of these things are slow. It is more often the confirmation process that is slow (depending on people outside the sysadmin team for information and acceptance), not the account creation process. As noted in the previous mail, there is work being done to make the mechanism of account creation simpler and easier too. Lastly, we need to stop being hostile to people trying to help. I offered to help with the foundation membership and was rebuffed and now you just rebuffed Diego. I did not rebuff Diego. I was polite, open, and explained myself. It was not in the least bit hostile *and* did not close the possibility of involvement. What I described has been pointed out by others before. It pisses me the hell off to watch the old guard rebuff people like myself who are merely trying to help. Ever wonder why KDE is better at attracting new people? Because they seem to understand that people are not perfect when coming to them! This is an unreasonably argumentative and manipulative way to make a point. - Jeff -- OSCON 2007: Portland OR, USAhttp://conferences.oreillynet.com/oscon/ Every fight is a food fight. When you're a cannibal. - Demetri Martin ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
Lastly, we need to stop being hostile to people trying to help. I offered to help with the foundation membership and was rebuffed and now you just rebuffed Diego. I doubt that you (or anyone indeed) rebuffed. On the conrary, I remember even committee was positive about your volunteering. However the your request was near to elections, moreover we had four seats occupied in the committee by then. I even remember we had some talk about if we could extend committee to five people. Later somehow our communication was lost (I remember sending e-mails to whom volunteered to help in our first meeting after election). After election Lucas (Rocha) also wanted to help, besides one of the members of the committee (Clytie) told that she had been having health issues and could not continue her duties. If you feel like rebuffed, I'm deeply sorry about this. I think now membership committee is doing very well with processing applications. We have most of the stuff automated (delays in past was mostly due to setting up the new system) and currently vast majority of the applications are resolved less than a week. Of course human interactions (requesting for information about applicants etc.) is the most time comsuming part of the process, reason for the applications not resolved for more than a week is that. About communication for MC, mailing list are public and archives are open, moreoever we now have links to tracker for applicants to see status of their application more clearly. If you have any other suggestions for improvement, nothing could be more anticipated, I believe that commitee and the board would consider your suggestions very carefully. Just to make things more clear. Annoyed, Corey ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Hiring a part-time sysadmin?
On Sun, 2007-06-24 at 05:32 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Bruno Boaventura I think it's time to add more contributors on sysadmin. Me and Diego are very interested to contribute in many areas on GNOME. We have time, motivation and love, but we need help to start. I'm a person who can learn quickly. I appreciate your enthusiasm, and there's every chance that we will take up both your offers. However, our experience shows that 'more' does not always mean 'better'. Don't be disappointed though -- that's just the gut reaction you're going to get from the team straight away. Thanks... I'm not disappointed, but still offering my help in anything!!! You rock! We rock! GNOME rock! -- brunobol - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://live.gnome.org/BrunoBoaventura http://blogs.gnome.org/portal/brunbol ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
