Accessibility liaisons [was: Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010]
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 18:32 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, Juanjo Marin wrote: Is there already any page with a list organizations ? We can work it out in a dossier about what is GNOME and about a11y GNOME tecnologies. Not that I know of. I just started one in the wiki. http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HandicapAssociations You might want to add teh W3C Web Accessibility Initiative - http://www.w3.org/WAI/ Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:52 -0800, Fernando Herrera wrote: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about showing them the benefits of GNOME/Free software? We should try to get some talking points about what we can offer like: - It's Free software - It cost no money - We have better i18n - We are have X feature that is lacking in propietary solutions - We are doing Y better All of these are strong points. Assistive technology for Microsoft Windows often has an annual subscription fee, and people who need such help often have low-paying jobs or no job at all. On the other hand, it *does* mean ensuring accessible installers and administration tools, and possibly having an organization to help caregivers. Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Since we're talking about GNOME and accessibility, it would be useful to include Chris Hofstader, the GNU access technology coordinator, c...@gnu.org. He is trying to find resources for work on GNOME accessibility. -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Not that I'm particularly well informed here, but having e-mail chatted with the NVDA guys about porting to Linux, and the Orca guys about porting to windows, and after reading a bit of the code and e-mail on the dev lists... Porting Orca to Windows or NVDA to Linux just isn't going to happen. It's not bad design on either team's part, it's just way too hard to do. That said, there's some sense in borrowing good ideas from each other. It turns out that both Orca and NVDA have an intense amount of code devoted to working around crud that doesn't work right in the rest of the system. Accessibility is low priority for almost all the apps the screen reader has to work with, so making it work with gum and tape in the screen reader is often how it's done. Bill On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Eitan Isaacson ei...@monotonous.org wrote: I agree with Cesar. In Orca's upcoming refactor a certain level of abstraction should be provided to allow porting to different platforms. Maybe in some kind of future NVDA and Orca could actually share a codebase or at least some modules. But this is just wishful thinking for now. This is how LSR was designed, it was abstracted (even to a fault), and kept a future Windows (or Mac) port feasible. Users win from a multi-platform screenreader because: 1. No learning curve when switching platforms. Today, besides learning a new platform, users need to learn different screen readers with very different interaction modes, NVDA or JAWS on Windows, VoiceOver on Mac, and Orca on Linux. It would be cool if a blind user did not have to worry about that. This would make the screen reader users competitive when it comes to technology proficiency since they are not locked down to the one AT they are used to on one platform. 2. It would do what Firefox did to the web to accessible computing. Desktop Linux is marketable today not because it reached feature parity with commercial offerings, but because it offers exactly the same web experience with Firefox or Chrome. The Free Desktop would be more attractive to blind users who are already familiar with it's great screen reader from the windows world. The screen reader and browser would be identical, and the experience would be too. Again, just wishful thinking :) On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Cesar Mauri ce...@crea-si.com wrote: El 17/12/2010 12:21, Piñeiro escribió: So now the problems. Take into account that turn Orca cross-platform is not just be able to compile Orca on Windows. There are more pieces that it would be required to turn: * at-spi: Orca is a screen reader that gets all the information from at-spi. So at-spi should also be migrated. * new bridge: right now, the communication path between the apps and at-spi is the ATK bridge or the QT bridge. Windows apps doesn't use ATK, AFAIK, it uses IAccessible2. So a new bridge should be required. So, turn cross-platform Orca means turns two modules, and create a new one. This is a really big amount of work to do. And we enter in a vicious circle. You proposed that turn in order to get funds. But we would require a really big amount of funds to get that. Thanks for your explanation which helped me to understand better how Orca works. Agreed. Given this scenario it seems clear that the effort is greater than the return. However, IMHO, I think that this approach could be taken into account for some new AT projects, especially those less dependant on specific api's (for instance, I'm thinking of AAC software). Beyond probably increasing funding opportunities (according to previous comments in this thread), a larger user base could be reached. Is just my opinion. César ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 00:35, Juanjo Marin juanjomari...@yahoo.es wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 09:02 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 08:28, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: Hi Dave, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about those companies deploying linux desktops in masse in public organizations? From time to time appear in the news some big European city or government department that has migrated their desktops to Linux. Those vendors aren't asked to provide an accessible solution? Regards, Tomeu What about international disabilities associations like: - International Council for Education of People with Visual Impairment [1] - ONCE International I think we can use OLPC/Sugar/GNOME deployments in schools like a good argument for asking for this. Usually, national associations are very Windows-centric, but they can help to children in poor areas improving the GNOME a11y technologies and its translation to Sugar. I think Sugar people would agree with this (Maybe Tomeu or someone from Sugarlabs can help with this idea if we think is feasible) SugarLabs hasn't been successful at all with raising so far, but I think they would be happy to assist (I'm not that active there these days). Regards, Tomeu cheers, -- Juanjo Marin [1] http://www.icevi.org/ [2] http://www.once.es/new/Onceinternacional/0_pruebaonceint/index_html [3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Accessibility Cheers, Ben ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Hi, Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. And what about turning Orca into cross-platform? I would attract funding from different sources. César ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
El 17/12/2010 12:21, Piñeiro escribió: So now the problems. Take into account that turn Orca cross-platform is not just be able to compile Orca on Windows. There are more pieces that it would be required to turn: * at-spi: Orca is a screen reader that gets all the information from at-spi. So at-spi should also be migrated. * new bridge: right now, the communication path between the apps and at-spi is the ATK bridge or the QT bridge. Windows apps doesn't use ATK, AFAIK, it uses IAccessible2. So a new bridge should be required. So, turn cross-platform Orca means turns two modules, and create a new one. This is a really big amount of work to do. And we enter in a vicious circle. You proposed that turn in order to get funds. But we would require a really big amount of funds to get that. Thanks for your explanation which helped me to understand better how Orca works. Agreed. Given this scenario it seems clear that the effort is greater than the return. However, IMHO, I think that this approach could be taken into account for some new AT projects, especially those less dependant on specific api's (for instance, I'm thinking of AAC software). Beyond probably increasing funding opportunities (according to previous comments in this thread), a larger user base could be reached. Is just my opinion. César ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
I agree with Cesar. In Orca's upcoming refactor a certain level of abstraction should be provided to allow porting to different platforms. Maybe in some kind of future NVDA and Orca could actually share a codebase or at least some modules. But this is just wishful thinking for now. This is how LSR was designed, it was abstracted (even to a fault), and kept a future Windows (or Mac) port feasible. Users win from a multi-platform screenreader because: 1. No learning curve when switching platforms. Today, besides learning a new platform, users need to learn different screen readers with very different interaction modes, NVDA or JAWS on Windows, VoiceOver on Mac, and Orca on Linux. It would be cool if a blind user did not have to worry about that. This would make the screen reader users competitive when it comes to technology proficiency since they are not locked down to the one AT they are used to on one platform. 2. It would do what Firefox did to the web to accessible computing. Desktop Linux is marketable today not because it reached feature parity with commercial offerings, but because it offers exactly the same web experience with Firefox or Chrome. The Free Desktop would be more attractive to blind users who are already familiar with it's great screen reader from the windows world. The screen reader and browser would be identical, and the experience would be too. Again, just wishful thinking :) On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Cesar Mauri ce...@crea-si.com wrote: El 17/12/2010 12:21, Piñeiro escribió: So now the problems. Take into account that turn Orca cross-platform is not just be able to compile Orca on Windows. There are more pieces that it would be required to turn: * at-spi: Orca is a screen reader that gets all the information from at-spi. So at-spi should also be migrated. * new bridge: right now, the communication path between the apps and at-spi is the ATK bridge or the QT bridge. Windows apps doesn't use ATK, AFAIK, it uses IAccessible2. So a new bridge should be required. So, turn cross-platform Orca means turns two modules, and create a new one. This is a really big amount of work to do. And we enter in a vicious circle. You proposed that turn in order to get funds. But we would require a really big amount of funds to get that. Thanks for your explanation which helped me to understand better how Orca works. Agreed. Given this scenario it seems clear that the effort is greater than the return. However, IMHO, I think that this approach could be taken into account for some new AT projects, especially those less dependant on specific api's (for instance, I'm thinking of AAC software). Beyond probably increasing funding opportunities (according to previous comments in this thread), a larger user base could be reached. Is just my opinion. César ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Cesar, El 17/12/2010 12:21, Piñeiro escribió: ... So, turn cross-platform Orca means turns two modules, and create a new one. This is a really big amount of work to do. And we enter in a vicious circle. You proposed that turn in order to get funds. But we would require a really big amount of funds to get that. Thanks for your explanation which helped me to understand better how Orca works. Agreed. Given this scenario it seems clear that the effort is greater than the return. However, IMHO, I think that this approach could be taken into account for some new AT projects, especially those less dependant on specific api's (for instance, I'm thinking of AAC software). Beyond probably increasing funding opportunities (according to previous comments in this thread), a larger user base could be reached. Is just my opinion. This is already being done. Dasher is already cross-platform. The plug-ins to Open Office to generate DAISY books or print to braille are cross-platform (well, the braille part will be on other platforms soon). Etc. Having been involved in an attempt at making a cross-platform screen reader (we wanted to make the new outSPOKEN both for Windows and Mac - and I had an experimental port to SunOS going back in the day), I'm of the opinion that the overhead cost in abstracting the different approaches hooks such for the different platforms is likely not worth the cost - vs. just developing separate efforts which share ideas. Peter -- Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal Phone: +1 650 5069522 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065 Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On 18 December 2010 06:46, Peter Korn peter.k...@oracle.com wrote: Cesar, However, IMHO, I think that this approach could be taken into account for some new AT projects, especially those less dependant on specific api's (for instance, I'm thinking of AAC software). Beyond probably increasing funding opportunities (according to previous comments in this thread), a larger user base could be reached. Is just my opinion. This is already being done. Dasher is already cross-platform. The plug-ins to Open Office to generate DAISY books or print to braille are cross-platform (well, the braille part will be on other platforms soon). Etc. Having been involved in an attempt at making a cross-platform screen reader (we wanted to make the new outSPOKEN both for Windows and Mac - and I had an experimental port to SunOS going back in the day), I'm of the opinion that the overhead cost in abstracting the different approaches hooks such for the different platforms is likely not worth the cost - vs. just developing separate efforts which share ideas. Peter I kinda agree with both of you. Have platform agnostic AT will [potentially] increase the diversity of the community and so [potentially] improve sustainability. However it also adds considerable development complexity and support burden, especially when you consider we now need to include mobile/tablet platforms now such as Android and iOS. There is also project management complexity as each platform may pull in different directions due to variations in platform conventions and usages. With Maavis [1] I was careful to consider portability with GNOME in mind, even though the original requirement was Win32 only. Accordingly I used Mozilla XUL (actually Firefox) and llimited the contacts points with the platform by using VLC for media playing, XPCOM components for process launch/control and TTS (SAPI), plus an Outfox Python server is used for (video calling (Skype for win32) and switch (joystick) input. I'm fully aware that even with this care in architecture that supporting several platforms will be plenty of work. 1: maavis.fullmeasure.co.uk -- Steve Lee Full Measure - open source accessibility - http://fullmeasure.co.uk ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about showing them the benefits of GNOME/Free software? We should try to get some talking points about what we can offer like: - It's Free software - It cost no money - We have better i18n - We are have X feature that is lacking in propietary solutions - We are doing Y better ... Salu2 ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
From: Cesar Mauri Loba ce...@crea-si.com Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. And what about turning Orca into cross-platform? I would attract funding from different sources. When you mean turn Orca cross-platform I guess that you are thinking in a cross GNU/Linux-Windows platform, instead of the currrent plan to turn (in the future) Orca cross-desktop KDE-GNOME. So now the problems. Take into account that turn Orca cross-platform is not just be able to compile Orca on Windows. There are more pieces that it would be required to turn: * at-spi: Orca is a screen reader that gets all the information from at-spi. So at-spi should also be migrated. * new bridge: right now, the communication path between the apps and at-spi is the ATK bridge or the QT bridge. Windows apps doesn't use ATK, AFAIK, it uses IAccessible2. So a new bridge should be required. So, turn cross-platform Orca means turns two modules, and create a new one. This is a really big amount of work to do. And we enter in a vicious circle. You proposed that turn in order to get funds. But we would require a really big amount of funds to get that. BR === API (apinhe...@igalia.com) ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Hi, Juanjo Marin wrote: Is there already any page with a list organizations ? We can work it out in a dossier about what is GNOME and about a11y GNOME tecnologies. Not that I know of. I just started one in the wiki. http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HandicapAssociations Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@tomeuvizoso.net wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 08:28, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: Hi Dave, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about those companies deploying linux desktops in masse in public organizations? From time to time appear in the news some big European city or government department that has migrated their desktops to Linux. Those vendors aren't asked to provide an accessible solution? Your suggestion seems like it might be a good way forward. I'm no longer involved with Caribou but the last I heard, the Consorcio Fernando de los Ríos (www.consorciofernandodelosrios.es) provided some funding for Caribou after I left the project. I was in contact with them briefly but they only seemed interested in funding companies from Spain so I didn't qualify. Cheers, Ben ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 08:28, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: Hi Dave, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about those companies deploying linux desktops in masse in public organizations? From time to time appear in the news some big European city or government department that has migrated their desktops to Linux. Those vendors aren't asked to provide an accessible solution? Regards, Tomeu Cheers, Ben ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
What about those companies deploying linux desktops in masse in public organizations? From time to time appear in the news some big European city or government department that has migrated their desktops to Linux. That's impossible. Linux is just a kernel -- it cannot run a desktop machine by itself. It does not even have a no user interface. So I think you must be referring to the GNU/Linux operating system. Many people call that Linux, but doing so is not fair to the GNU Project. So please don't do that. See http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html for more explanation, and http://www.gnu.org/gnu/the-gnu-project.html for background. Making the users of GNU aware that they're using GNU is good for all GNU packages, including GNOME. -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 09:02 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 08:28, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: Hi Dave, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about those companies deploying linux desktops in masse in public organizations? From time to time appear in the news some big European city or government department that has migrated their desktops to Linux. Those vendors aren't asked to provide an accessible solution? Regards, Tomeu What about international disabilities associations like: - International Council for Education of People with Visual Impairment [1] - ONCE International I think we can use OLPC/Sugar/GNOME deployments in schools like a good argument for asking for this. Usually, national associations are very Windows-centric, but they can help to children in poor areas improving the GNOME a11y technologies and its translation to Sugar. I think Sugar people would agree with this (Maybe Tomeu or someone from Sugarlabs can help with this idea if we think is feasible) cheers, -- Juanjo Marin [1] http://www.icevi.org/ [2] http://www.once.es/new/Onceinternacional/0_pruebaonceint/index_html [3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Accessibility Cheers, Ben ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:58 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Aha, well, yes. For starters: * Speech recognition would be useful for at least some people with print learning disabilities as well as for certain people with physical disabilities. * Caribou, especially were its functionality further expanded, would be useful for people with physical disabilities. Could we begin there? And if so, who is we and how do we begin? :-) OK - Caribou is the gok replacement, right? I guess we is us - the GNOME Foundation. I'm sure the board will help, I'll help, I'm certain the a11y team will help... we'll figure this out. I guess begin begins with build a list of organisations we could contact for grants - organisations should include non-profits, foundations, universities, and government agencies. We could use a wiki page for that, or Etherpad, or Google Docs, perhaps SugarCRM? Open to discussion. Then, for each one, we try to get a good entry point. Then, we contact them, with a general informal first approach - do you know GNOME? We're pretty cool. We do cool a11y stuff. and if they have heard of us, and are maybe using us a little, we can then pitch the roadmap for grants. Is there already any page with a list organizations ? We can work it out in a dossier about what is GNOME and about a11y GNOME tecnologies. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
El jue, 16-12-2010 a las 09:02 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso escribió: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 08:28, Ben Konrath b...@bagu.org wrote: Hi Dave, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. What about those companies deploying linux desktops in masse in public organizations? From time to time appear in the news some big European city or government department that has migrated their desktops to Linux. Those vendors aren't asked to provide an accessible solution? Of course, they are good candidates. We can add to the list too. Regional Government of Andalusia (my employer) has done that in the last year, though I think that with economical crisis they won't have a budget for supporting a11y projects like the year before. Anyway, ask for some help is free :) -- Juanjo Marin Regards, Tomeu Cheers, Ben ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Juan José Marín Martínez Tlf: 956009437 (Corp. 409437) Móvil: 671596200 (Corp. 696200) Fax: 956009445 (Corp. 409445) Informática. Consejería de Cultura. DP Cádiz. Junta de Andalucía Antes de imprimir este correo electrónico piense bien si es necesario hacerlo: El medioambiente es cosa de todos. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Hi Dave, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Just thought I'd chime in here. I spent a bit of time searching for funding to work on Caribou after the ATRC / IDRC cut funding for my position. The feedback I received was a similar story; the potential funders seemed only interested in an applications that would serve their users who primarily use Windows. Obviously this will be an issue when searching for funding for GNOME a11y projects - especially new projects that don't have an established group of users like Caribou. Cheers, Ben ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Hi, Brian Cameron wrote: * Joanmarie Diggs joined the meeting to give an update on GNOME accessibility. snip o A $40,000 budget for FY2012 would help the a11y project. o The GNOME Foundation currently has a $20,000 a11y budget. Half is allocated for travel and half is allocated for contracting work. This includes roughly a $5,000 surplus from previous year, $10,000 from Mozilla, and $5,000 from F123-Mais Diferenças. * Possible solutions: o Perhaps a Friends of GNOME campaign could target a11y. o Perhaps we could revisit funding a11y tasks via bounties (e.g. The GOPA program). That project did not work so well since the bounties were too small. Perhaps a $40,000 budget would allow for larger bounties. o We should do more PR, blogs, and publish more clear plans about what work we want to do to raise awareness. o Can plan to do a targeted FoG campaign. Plan to do a campaign for servers in Spring, 2011. So, an a11y campaign could follow. o Can we work more closely with advisory board companies to get more people allocated to a11y instead of, or in addition to, raising funds. o Perhaps we could determine a more consistent way to allocate some money from the yearly advisory board fees to programs that need money every year such as a11y. Further ideas: Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Where is the Orca roadmap? Are any of the features being requested by specific identifiable groups? And can we pitch some of the roadmap to associations representing those groups? Do we have people who can get entry points put in project proposals for the likes of HI, AFM, APAJH other non-profits (those 3 are French). Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Stormy: Attending * Stormy Peters I was not there but I think about you all lots! Oops, corrected in the Wiki minutes. Brian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Hi All. Based on the Orca (or even a more general a11y) roadmap, it may be possible to get some funding from companies or associations interested in seeing Orca get better (although a lot of the associations seem to be focussing more on NVDA because it works on Windows). Where is the Orca roadmap? http://live.gnome.org/Orca/Roadmap The (still in progress) Accessibility Roadmap (along with links to the roadmaps to individual projects) can be found here: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Roadmap Are any of the features being requested by specific identifiable groups? The Gecko and Performance work with Mozilla. That is related to the $10k grant. I don't know if something similar could be done with the other items. Thanks for your ideas and support/help! --joanie ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
CCing the list as you replied to the copy of my message which never made it to the list because I sent it via the wrong address. :-/ Sorry about that. On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 21:01 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Hi Joanmarie, What I'm getting at is, if there were features which were particularly useful to, say, people using head-trackers, then we might be able to get funding from spina bifida support organisations, for example. If there are things in the a11y roadmap that we could loosely group as useful for people with handicap X that would give us an idea of the kinds of organisations that might fund that work. Aha, well, yes. For starters: * Speech recognition would be useful for at least some people with print learning disabilities as well as for certain people with physical disabilities. * Caribou, especially were its functionality further expanded, would be useful for people with physical disabilities. Could we begin there? And if so, who is we and how do we begin? :-) Thanks Dave. --joanie ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
Hi, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Aha, well, yes. For starters: * Speech recognition would be useful for at least some people with print learning disabilities as well as for certain people with physical disabilities. * Caribou, especially were its functionality further expanded, would be useful for people with physical disabilities. Could we begin there? And if so, who is we and how do we begin? :-) OK - Caribou is the gok replacement, right? I guess we is us - the GNOME Foundation. I'm sure the board will help, I'll help, I'm certain the a11y team will help... we'll figure this out. I guess begin begins with build a list of organisations we could contact for grants - organisations should include non-profits, foundations, universities, and government agencies. We could use a wiki page for that, or Etherpad, or Google Docs, perhaps SugarCRM? Open to discussion. Then, for each one, we try to get a good entry point. Then, we contact them, with a general informal first approach - do you know GNOME? We're pretty cool. We do cool a11y stuff. and if they have heard of us, and are maybe using us a little, we can then pitch the roadmap for grants. For sure, it's a long shot approach, and we'll probably only ever get 10% response to initial queries, and less than 10% of those interested in funding us (and there, let me turn that question around to you - who's us? Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:58 +0100, Dave Neary wrote:
Hi,
Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Aha, well, yes. For starters:
* Speech recognition would be useful for at least some people with print
learning disabilities as well as for certain people with physical
disabilities.
* Caribou, especially were its functionality further expanded, would be
useful for people with physical disabilities.
Could we begin there? And if so, who is we and how do we begin? :-)
OK - Caribou is the gok replacement, right?
Indeed.
I guess we is us - the GNOME Foundation. I'm sure the board will help,
I'll help, I'm certain the a11y team will help... we'll figure this out.
Awesome! Thank you.
I guess begin begins with build a list of organisations we could
contact for grants - organisations should include non-profits,
foundations, universities, and government agencies. We could use a wiki
page for that, or Etherpad, or Google Docs, perhaps SugarCRM? Open to
discussion.
Then, for each one, we try to get a good entry point.
Then, we contact them, with a general informal first approach - do
you know GNOME? We're pretty cool. We do cool a11y stuff. and if they
have heard of us, and are maybe using us a little, we can then pitch the
roadmap for grants.
For sure, it's a long shot approach, and we'll probably only ever get
10% response to initial queries, and less than 10% of those interested
in funding us
But it sounds like a good start and a sound one. And anything more than
0% will help out the development efforts of the A11y team.
(and there, let me turn that question around to you -
who's us?
Good question. I'll defer to Piñeiro (on holiday today).
But my opinion is that it would depend on the size of the sums we're
talking about. For now, I'm going to assume bounties or small grants
sufficiently large to convince qualified individuals or entities that
taking on the associated task is worth their while. In which case us
would either be the Foundation or the GNOME A11y team. And in either
case, the {Foundation, A11y Team} would work together with the {A11y
Team, Foundation} to ensure that such a qualified individual or entity
is sought and tasked with the job.
--joanie
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Re: Meeting Minutes Published - November 11, 2010
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Brian Cameron brian.came...@oracle.comwrote: The meeting minutes for the November 11th GNOME Foundation board meeting is now published. Refer here: Attending * Stormy Peters I was not there but I think about you all lots! Stormy ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
