Re: internal engagement
Hi Emmanuele, First at all, thanks to everybody for clarify the issue. However, I would like to go to the point I was trying to make: On Wed, 2014-03-05 at 10:38 +, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > [...] > > How is that none of the directors noticed this to fix it? > > I was honestly convinced that Karen did send an email (I do remember > the discussions at various meetings quite vividly), but it's probably > the result of me discussing this stuff off and on in various venues > (IRC, email, social networks) that I may just have been confused. I > apologise for that. This is kind of my point: when a person participates in many channels and some of them are private, it is not hard to think that everybody are in the loop, specially when in part of some private discussions something public is mentioned. We are human beings after all. If Sri blames apathy on this list in order to do (or not do) something, then I would say: maybe it is just people out of the loop and you cannot see that because of the circumstances you are in. So, if any of you want to change the status, go ahead and don't think in apathy. Otherwise we won't get anywhere. -- Germán Poo-Caamaño http://calcifer.org/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
On 03/05/2014 11:38 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: that's my mistake in the minutes: the "asked around" was referring to the wiki page (https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/PrivacyCampaign2013) we set up after the announcement of the privacy campaign results at GUADEC, as well as informal polling of maintainers and contributors of security-related projects; for instance, Andreas reached out to Stef Walters about potential ideas, but that happened only recently. to be fair, I think asking for concrete proposals on foundation-list would be a terrible mistake: desktop-devel would probably be more effective — in fact, the first proposal of the privacy campaign, which included potential work areas, was sent to desktop-devel: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-December/msg00077.html So, some background on why we wanted to get feedback from Stef specifically. Since his guadec talk was on the subject of security, he felt like a good person to reach out to. I didn't get around to it earlier, and I just reached out to him now. We talked for a bit, and he hadn't thought much more about the campaign since GUADEC. His ideas and others are on this list: https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/PrivacyCampaign2013 Everyone, please feel free to add your ideas to that page. - Andreas ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
hi Germán; On 4 March 2014 19:24, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote: > Just an example after reading the minutes recently sent: > > = Minutes for Tuesday, December 10th, 2013, 16:00 UTC = > [...] >* We should also ask on foundation-list for ideas >* '''ACTION''': ... to reach out to foundation-list for ideas > from the foundation members regarding the privacy campaign funds > > > = Minutes for Tuesday, January 21th, 2013, 15:00 UTC = > [...] > * Status and plan for the security and privacy campaign's money >* ... asked around generally for ideas >* Not much feedback > > I don't see in the archives (December 2013-March 2014) a mail to > foundation-list asking for ideas for the privacy campaign (please, > correct me if I am wrong). So, it should not be strange that there was > "Not much feedback". that's my mistake in the minutes: the "asked around" was referring to the wiki page (https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/PrivacyCampaign2013) we set up after the announcement of the privacy campaign results at GUADEC, as well as informal polling of maintainers and contributors of security-related projects; for instance, Andreas reached out to Stef Walters about potential ideas, but that happened only recently. to be fair, I think asking for concrete proposals on foundation-list would be a terrible mistake: desktop-devel would probably be more effective — in fact, the first proposal of the privacy campaign, which included potential work areas, was sent to desktop-devel: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-December/msg00077.html > How is that none of the directors noticed this to fix it? I was honestly convinced that Karen did send an email (I do remember the discussions at various meetings quite vividly), but it's probably the result of me discussing this stuff off and on in various venues (IRC, email, social networks) that I may just have been confused. I apologise for that. ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
Le 04/03/2014 22:13, Jim Campbell a écrit : > I brought up the topic in the GNOME community on Google Plus shortly > after Karen's blog post about the topic: Well, having multiple communication channels is nice for outreach, but they can't replace official ones. I personnally follow nothing else than planet GNOME and the mailing lists, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. We'll know for next time :) ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
Hi All, I brought up the topic in the GNOME community on Google Plus shortly after Karen's blog post about the topic: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JimCampbell/posts/NdPUm22fkkg My apologies for not bringing the discussion to the foundation and board's attention. Jim On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Tobias Mueller wrote: > Hi. > > On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 11:24:40AM -0800, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote: > > How is that none of the directors noticed this to fix it? > That is not the case. I raised the point that no email hit f-l. But it was > not > considered to a problem as we decided to go with a call for bids. > > Cheers, > Tobi > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
Hi. On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 11:24:40AM -0800, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote: > How is that none of the directors noticed this to fix it? That is not the case. I raised the point that no email hit f-l. But it was not considered to a problem as we decided to go with a call for bids. Cheers, Tobi ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
On Tue, 2014-03-04 at 00:55 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Fabiana Simões > wrote: > > [...] > > To a large extent, I always expected this to be an active > > communication channel between Foundation members and the board. The > > meeting notes and agenda are great, but they give very little insight > > about the milestones and major accomplishments we're hitting (and > > aiming to hit) as a Foundation. > > Unfortunately, previous boards have many attempts to have IRC meetings > and it's been poorly attended. So I'm not sure what would generate > interest in talking to the board? What about status reports from the > other teams? People cannot get engaged is they are unaware of the board whereabouts. Without engagement you are not going to generate interesting discussions. Just an example after reading the minutes recently sent: = Minutes for Tuesday, December 10th, 2013, 16:00 UTC = [...] * We should also ask on foundation-list for ideas * '''ACTION''': ... to reach out to foundation-list for ideas from the foundation members regarding the privacy campaign funds = Minutes for Tuesday, January 21th, 2013, 15:00 UTC = [...] * Status and plan for the security and privacy campaign's money * ... asked around generally for ideas * Not much feedback I don't see in the archives (December 2013-March 2014) a mail to foundation-list asking for ideas for the privacy campaign (please, correct me if I am wrong). So, it should not be strange that there was "Not much feedback". How is that none of the directors noticed this to fix it? -- Germán Poo-Caamaño http://calcifer.org/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: ... > Well I can certainly start discussions. But I worry that apathy has > set in on this list and I'm interested to know if that is the case. Apathetic about what about what exactly, though? As I understand it, the Foundation exists to take care of the housekeeping and to talk to partners, and this is mostly taken care of by our elected board. This doesn't leave a lot of scope for the membership to get actively involved except at election time. It doesn't mean that people don't care about the Foundation; it's just that 1. Foundation activities aren't necessarily relevant to contributors' day to day activities and 2. it's mostly taken care of for us. > I will do an experiment, I will talk about some of the things the > board is doing and if I see some positive feedback I will continue. > How do people feel about that? I made an effort to attend and participate in the foundation IRC meetings that used to happen, and it always felt a bit like we were talking for talking's sake. It's great to try new ways of engaging the membership, and I'm generally supportive, but my concern is that, unless real decisions are at stake, this won't amount to very much. Allan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Fabiana Simões wrote: > Quite honestly, I never expected broader discussions about the project > to take place in this list. I believe those should welcome anyone > interested, and not only Foundation members. > Ah I see, so people feel this is primarily a way for members to talk to the board and vice versa. > To a large extent, I always expected this to be an active > communication channel between Foundation members and the board. The > meeting notes and agenda are great, but they give very little insight > about the milestones and major accomplishments we're hitting (and > aiming to hit) as a Foundation. Unfortunately, previous boards have many attempts to have IRC meetings and it's been poorly attended. So I'm not sure what would generate interest in talking to the board? What about status reports from the other teams? For instance, people may not know but we started a QA team around gnome-continuous to increae the quality of our software. Potentially, we would centralize our testing to GNOME instead of each distro doing the testing individually. We could try to get the engagement team to write these kind of things weekly? For board matters, you already have the minutes. > > To answer your question: I do care, but I know little about what the > Board is doing or should be doing to initiate any discussions I find > pertinent to this mailing list. It also strikes me that the Board > never has anything to ask or communicate to us besides the elections > announcements. I think more openness and dialogue would give us some > food for thought, and seed discussions. Well I can certainly start discussions. But I worry that apathy has set in on this list and I'm interested to know if that is the case. I will do an experiment, I will talk about some of the things the board is doing and if I see some positive feedback I will continue. How do people feel about that? sri > > On 1 March 2014 17:52, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: >> Greetings, foundation members! >> >> This list has been pretty quiet and I'm wondering how best to talk >> about things going on in GNOME internally that would capture people's >> imagination. >> >> For the most part, we've been talking mostly about new members and >> welcoming them. >> >> But, I feel that we don't really talk much about the project here from >> a general perspective. There is a lot going on, but this list doesn't >> really reflect the work going on within GNOME. >> >> So, let me ask all of you a question. When you signed on as >> Foundation members, what kind of discussions or involvement did you >> hope to see? What should the various team communicate with you? >> >> We've tried a lot of things to help communicate out ot the project, >> but it's been met mostly with silence and participation has been low >> with irc meetings that the board has come up with. So something is >> going on. Are you busy? Do you not care? What is your enthusiasm >> level? >> >> I'm being blunt because we should have a blunt conversation. If you >> don't want to tell me on-list, you can tell me off list. I think most >> of you know that I take a soft touch both internally and externally in >> GNOME. You should not be afraid to tell me what you are feeling. >> >> The engagement team has spent a lot of time working on our external >> engagement, but I think it's time we focused on internal engagement. >> Organizational health so to speak. >> >> My goal is to have an engaged foundation. I want and need your >> active participation. >> >> If you have a hostile response, or something fairly controversial I >> would prefer that you email me off list, and I will summarize it on >> the list. One thing I want to do is control the conversation without >> it going into the hinterlands. We need to have effective >> communication. Whatever we can't solve we will take it up at GUADEC >> as a BOF or as part of the general GUADEC meeting. Whatever problems >> we have, we will solve it as one team. Together. So use your >> judgement, as we are all adults. >> >> So, let's spend the weekend and casually talk about GNOME!! >> >> sri >> (speaking as an engagement team member, not board btw) >> ___ >> foundation-list mailing list >> foundation-list@gnome.org >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: internal engagement
Quite honestly, I never expected broader discussions about the project to take place in this list. I believe those should welcome anyone interested, and not only Foundation members. To a large extent, I always expected this to be an active communication channel between Foundation members and the board. The meeting notes and agenda are great, but they give very little insight about the milestones and major accomplishments we're hitting (and aiming to hit) as a Foundation. To answer your question: I do care, but I know little about what the Board is doing or should be doing to initiate any discussions I find pertinent to this mailing list. It also strikes me that the Board never has anything to ask or communicate to us besides the elections announcements. I think more openness and dialogue would give us some food for thought, and seed discussions. On 1 March 2014 17:52, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > Greetings, foundation members! > > This list has been pretty quiet and I'm wondering how best to talk > about things going on in GNOME internally that would capture people's > imagination. > > For the most part, we've been talking mostly about new members and > welcoming them. > > But, I feel that we don't really talk much about the project here from > a general perspective. There is a lot going on, but this list doesn't > really reflect the work going on within GNOME. > > So, let me ask all of you a question. When you signed on as > Foundation members, what kind of discussions or involvement did you > hope to see? What should the various team communicate with you? > > We've tried a lot of things to help communicate out ot the project, > but it's been met mostly with silence and participation has been low > with irc meetings that the board has come up with. So something is > going on. Are you busy? Do you not care? What is your enthusiasm > level? > > I'm being blunt because we should have a blunt conversation. If you > don't want to tell me on-list, you can tell me off list. I think most > of you know that I take a soft touch both internally and externally in > GNOME. You should not be afraid to tell me what you are feeling. > > The engagement team has spent a lot of time working on our external > engagement, but I think it's time we focused on internal engagement. > Organizational health so to speak. > > My goal is to have an engaged foundation. I want and need your > active participation. > > If you have a hostile response, or something fairly controversial I > would prefer that you email me off list, and I will summarize it on > the list. One thing I want to do is control the conversation without > it going into the hinterlands. We need to have effective > communication. Whatever we can't solve we will take it up at GUADEC > as a BOF or as part of the general GUADEC meeting. Whatever problems > we have, we will solve it as one team. Together. So use your > judgement, as we are all adults. > > So, let's spend the weekend and casually talk about GNOME!! > > sri > (speaking as an engagement team member, not board btw) > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
internal engagement
Greetings, foundation members! This list has been pretty quiet and I'm wondering how best to talk about things going on in GNOME internally that would capture people's imagination. For the most part, we've been talking mostly about new members and welcoming them. But, I feel that we don't really talk much about the project here from a general perspective. There is a lot going on, but this list doesn't really reflect the work going on within GNOME. So, let me ask all of you a question. When you signed on as Foundation members, what kind of discussions or involvement did you hope to see? What should the various team communicate with you? We've tried a lot of things to help communicate out ot the project, but it's been met mostly with silence and participation has been low with irc meetings that the board has come up with. So something is going on. Are you busy? Do you not care? What is your enthusiasm level? I'm being blunt because we should have a blunt conversation. If you don't want to tell me on-list, you can tell me off list. I think most of you know that I take a soft touch both internally and externally in GNOME. You should not be afraid to tell me what you are feeling. The engagement team has spent a lot of time working on our external engagement, but I think it's time we focused on internal engagement. Organizational health so to speak. My goal is to have an engaged foundation. I want and need your active participation. If you have a hostile response, or something fairly controversial I would prefer that you email me off list, and I will summarize it on the list. One thing I want to do is control the conversation without it going into the hinterlands. We need to have effective communication. Whatever we can't solve we will take it up at GUADEC as a BOF or as part of the general GUADEC meeting. Whatever problems we have, we will solve it as one team. Together. So use your judgement, as we are all adults. So, let's spend the weekend and casually talk about GNOME!! sri (speaking as an engagement team member, not board btw) ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
