Re: GNOME annual report
I admit, I was hoping for a different reaction to this announcement. So far I have had 4 replies, all critical of some aspect of the report. Doesn't anyone think it's cool that we finally got something like this (and all of the other user group stuff) done? Dave, It is a very nice report! It is visually attractive. I hope it grows each year. About the reaction... starting your release paragraph with In secret was bound to cause an involuntary negative reaction in open source devotees... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Can we improve things?
I am more concerned about big posters, posting almost everyday some long text and for who I have never seen any GNOME related post, and who I never read anything from them except their blog on planet (should I really give names ?). People complain about the number of posts everyday and the decreasing interest in reading the planet, I think that this is the main content issue. I think everyone has their own least-favorite bloggers... so why not add easy-to-use filtering/personalization on pgo, like I suggested earlier? (End-user hacking of css files doesn't count as easy.) Let the users boost the signal-to-noise ratio themselves! A good example is Miguel's blog. Fascinating stuff, if you're into Mono. A big waste of screen space if you aren't. (I mean that nicely, not snidely... ) Same with the reading-list-type-blogs. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
bounties?
Hi all, What ever happened to gnome bounties? I've only followed this list for a year, but I see from the archives that there have been a variety of controversies about them - but nothing really definitive. I think it would be useful to do some like: 1) Allow someone trusted (with commit access? foundation member? bug editor?) to flag a bug in bugzilla as so-annoying-I'll-pay-to-have-it-fixed (gnome-money vs gnome-love?). 2) Let a module maintainer vet the offer (to reject unwanted features or things that will be fixed soon anyway). 3) Have an l.g.o. list of active bounties. 4) Maybe pay through the Foundation (not sure about that). Right now, we have big companies that can devote developers (Novell, Red Hat) or run formal bounty-esque programs (Google SOC), but nothing that can really tap the concerns of smaller organizations or individuals. As an example, I use Gnome in my small company, and I've submitted plenty of small patches. But my skills are limited, and I can't devote that much time to fixing bigger things. But I could pay a few hundred dollars... bug 388152 is an example of something I'd pay for (make evince scale printed pages in a natural way). Did the foundation come out against bounties on principal, or has the idea just not gone anywhere? - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: bounties?
Jeff Waugh wrote: We've had some success and some failures, but ultimately it required quite a lot of infrastructure and time to get it right, but hadn't really delivered on expectations. There are also ongoing concerns about how the introduction of financial incentives will affect volunteer motivation. Hopefully that's a useful summary, and I'm sure others will chime in with other views or additional info if necessary. Thanks, Jeff, it's useful to know what the general thinking has been. I guess it's no surprise that money and free/open software have a delicate relationship... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Who would be a good member? [Was: About the coming election]
Richard Stallman wrote: I think that one requisite of a good board member is a visible commitment to the goal of a world in which software is free. I think the Gnome Foundation could make heavier emphasis on free and open data / file formats too, as a marketing tool (and mission statement bullet point, etc). We all take this for granted, but other OS users are used to proprietary and patented data formats. It's especially useful since vendor lock-in is a buzzword that corporate suits can relate to. I'm a little surprised that http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html doesn't directly address data formats, actually. The ooxml issue might not have blown up so much if we were more vocal on this point. We should make it explicitly clear that we _aggressively_ support open and interoperable standards, and _grudgingly_ support non-free standards so that you have a reasonable migration path. My 2 cents... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: bounties?
I'm sure alot of us myself included would like to spend more time working on free software if we could only afford it... I guess my original suggestion for a more formal bounty system would be doomed to fail (too complicated, not in the free spirit) - but perhaps there could be an lgo page listing companies and individuals who are happy to do gnome work for money / DVDs / beer / food / whatever ... would anyone actually list themselves there, though? Would you, Tristan? I've seen projects like Plone do that... it's clearly an open source project, but they list quite a few companies that can provide for-pay support. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: bounties?
Posting 'a beer at next Guadec for whoever fixes bug #7' is informal enough that I think we avoid the main issue which is the alienation of volunteers, however, it doesn't really address the big issue which is how can users donate and drive development of a feature they desire? I'm more wondering about how non-Guadec-goers can get action on pet-peeve bugs. If you're going to Guadec, you've already got the expertise or influence to make things happen. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
academic cooperation
Has http://live.gnome.org/Academic gotten stuck? Has the promised mailing list happened? Can I help? The thread on this list seemed to die out in August with no further action. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: academic cooperation
Fernando San MartÃn Woerner wrote: I'm working with a French professor doing a computer science course and using GNOME as a basis for the projects. Also, David Bolter put me in contact with a professor who's interested in having students do some GNOME-related projects. There's also a group of three students who want to do their bachelor degree project on GNOME. Also i'm working with two students in Chile, the are doing their degree about GNOME topics, mainly applying the platform on vineyards and winerys and usability also. Vincent and Fernando, could you update http://live.gnome.org/Academic to add links to these projects? Other people: do you have ideas for student research? I added one example to the wiki (a better redeye removal algorithm), there must be plenty of others. Students always need research ideas... Has the promised mailing list happened? Not yet. The creation request is waiting for a nice sysadmin. The mailing list would really help track what's happening in this area... I'll ping some people gently... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: academic cooperation - new list up
Jeff Waugh wrote: There were some problems creating mailing lists around that time. I'll do it for you immediately. Thanks Jeff! The new list is available here: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/academia-list - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
ghop
My thanks to whoever arranged for gnome's participation in ghop! It was great as a coding exercise, and great as a PR/outreach exercise. I found it extremely valuable for roping in contributions to gthumb, to implement features that were beyond my areas of expertise (e.g., calling exiv2's C++ API from gThumb's C code) or just weren't high enough on my list of personal priorities (scripting improvements). The motivation of reward and the imposition of 1 week deadlines kept things moving nicely, too. And I know that the students gained useful real-world experience that will help them mature as programmers - yes, compiler warnings are bad - yes, console warnings are bad - yes, you really do need g_free - yes, you should test your patch before submitting :-) Many of these students will come back as valuable gnome users and contributors. I would like to see this program continue! Is there any chance of keeping it going more frequently than annually? Could gnome do something like it in-house if google doesn't? I think there is a virtually endless supply of ~ 1 week tasks that would benefit from this program. (Porting things from gnome-vfs to gvfs / gio / gfile is the most obvious, and high priority, area for me. I cringe when I see all the gnome_vfs calls in gthumb... It's not going to happen any time soon if I have to do it all.) - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: ghop
Olav Vitters wrote: I find it a bit strange to have the Foundation pay for something like this. If you don't like GNOME, then you get money. If you do, then you should work for free? Same for e.g. non-sexy (gnome-love/GHOP) bugs. Someone should still pay attention to those. ... No objection if Google continues this (instead of the Foundation). Also wondering about the outcome of GHOP. I don't think paying for small things is a viable long term option (discussed many times before -- things change when money is involved). Do e.g. the contributors stick around? Note: I understand that paying for things will get results. What I am interested in is the impact it has the on long term for GNOME (new contributors, potential bad influence caused by paying for things, etc). Although that is probably hard to tell atm. Yes, I agree, we do not want a pay-for-patch mentality. GHOP kept things very targeted (high school students only), and the reward minimal - 3 patches before you got any money, with an upper limit. I think that the biggest appeal for the students was the offer of guidance coupled with the prestige (resumé-padding coolness) of competing in a Google contest (mostly the latter). I think Google or Red Hat could do this with offering any cash at at all. Gnome is a bit more obscure, so cash would help as a marketing tool. Free beer would probably be more popular, but there are issues with that too... Anyway, I personally see ghop as a way to get young programmers exposed and interested in Gnome, rather than a source of hired-gun patches (although the patches certainly were useful). I think it was very successful, and we should try to continue this or something similar as an outreach project to bring in new blood. Are there any other existing outreach projects in gnome? gnome-love is great, but it relies on interested people finding us and getting excited on their own, serendipitously. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Windows-only software in government
Hi all, One of the issues forcing me to keep a few MS Windows computer around in my company are government services relying on Windows-only software, like this example: http://www.statcan.ca/english/exports/download.htm My company is required to report all exports to non-US destinations using the Windows-only program - or paper forms. Bleh. I've added an lgo page to collect government Windows-only thoughts: http://live.gnome.org/Government. If you have some experiences / wisdom to share, I would appreciate it you you added it to the wiki. Perhaps Richard Stalling and/or others could help fashion the Why Should Governments Support Non-Windows Operating Systems? section into something more stirring and convincing, that we can point legislators and bureaucrats too. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Windows-only software in government
Liam R E Quin wrote: Some arguments that go down well are * the need to archive * the need for accessibility * the need to repurpose information (e.g. print, Web, search...) * the need to control costs * the need to have control over core technology, to use trusted software * the need to encourage and support the Canadian IT industry Thanks, that's really useful. I've added it to http://live.gnome.org/Government. I'm trying to build up a base of useful arguments before firing off letters to ministers and members of parliament... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Windows-only software in government
Richard Stallman wrote: Is the question really Why the government should not require the public to be a Microsoft customer in order to deal with their government? Presenting it that way would make a stronger point. Yes, thank you, that is better! I've updated the wiki. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Call for hackfest ideas
So if you can think of a topic that would be suitable for a hackfest, please talk about it with a few people and share your idea. I'd like to suggest one possible topic: The pixbuf loaders. They're slow and memory intensive, and this drags down anything that needs thumbnails (Nautilus, etc). There is a lot of opportunity to improve the responsiveness of the desktop here. More specifically, some pixbuf loaders (png and tiff) load the entire image, and then scale it. This leads to huge memory usage (bug 142428) loading the image. Worse, after the initial pixbuf is loaded, the gtk+ scaling routines collapse for high scaling ratios (bug 80925). A 20 kilobyte png file can bring Nautilus to its knees (bug 522803). Ideally the pixbuf loaders would incorporate some scale-while-loading (for example, see tifftopnm -byrow) for sized requests, and the gtk+ scaling routines would also be fixed. (The jpeg routines have a limited amount for scaling-while-loading already.) I don't have the expertise to fix any of this, but I do want to make the problems known... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Call for hosts for GUADEC 2009
As for me, the reason not pushing for Canada is that a GNOME community in Canada is surprisingly non-existent. Sure, there's you, me, and desrt. But that's pretty much it. Not that it changes anything, but I'm in Ottawa... - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: What do you think of the foundation?
I would like to see greater financial and administrative transparency. I ... I want to see seven board members actively communicating, and I want to ... front, don't fight in public, and publish/announce/... - in short, broadcast to the membership what they're working on. My only complaint with the board is that the handling of the minutes really has been amateurish. The minutes lurch out months after the meeting, with a sorry I've been busy usually attached. It's unprofessional. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct and Foundation membership
Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Say, any viewer of p.g.o can vote a post +1 or -1. Then we can gather two metrics per poster: 1) how impactful his/her posts are (avg / median / max number of votes). 2) how interested are readers in his/her posts (avg / median / min/max score. We can then have threshold to hide / collapse unpopular posts. Yes, please! Let the system fix itself through trendy crowd-sourcing, rather than having a board spank people who speak foolishly! - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME Foundation and CEO Goals
On 01/25/2010 01:44 PM, Og Maciel wrote: get more feedback and constructive criticism. I'd love to see milestones related to getting localization and accessibility teams on the roadmap for 2010 and holding sprints/what-not with members of these teams to see how to make GNOME more accessible to people who's first language is not English and for those who cannot currently use GNOME due to some limitation. One metric could be, how many different languages with a total percentage of less or equal to 50% translated strings have improved within the next release cycle? How many kept at 80% or above? How can the Foundation help to improve these numbers? Are there organizations already using GNOME to attend their accessibility needs? Are there any goals related to making GNOME more accessible? Would it make sense to spend a release cycle and focus on improving these areas? Have we got any metrics on the progress (or lack of) of work being done in these areas? Those are great goals for gnome overall, but I don't think they have much to do with Stormy's actual duties. Do they? - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME: lack of strategic roadmap
On 02/24/2010 01:05 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: Software freedom is a means to furthering our vision of providing technology to all, regardless of means, physical and technical capability or culture. Freedom can lead to more available technology, but it is vital in its own right. It is little benefit to have technology available if the price of using it is your freedom. That is why we write free replacements for existing proprietary software. Richard is a purist, of course, but I do wish that gnome would beat the freedom drum more, something like this: Gnome, the Free Desktop: Free to Use, Free to Share, Free to Change or Gnome: The Desktop of the Free or, more hiply, Gnome: Own Your Code. Own Your Data. Own Your Desktop! Really, this is the only thing that truly distinguishes Gnome from the practical alternatives like MS, Apple. (Maybe a footnote could say ...and less obscure than Xfce, hah hah.) The current slogan of Made to Share is vaguely cool in a way that developers can appreciate, but I think it's meaningless as a tool for roping in new users. Just my 2 cents. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Stormy's Update: Week of April 26, 2010
Board meeting. The board met. The minutes will come out soon. Brian's doing a great job of taking minutes and making sure we all track and update our action items. +1, thanks for the regular stream of minutes! - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Ensuring GNOME 3 is a Success
- What additional things can the GNOME Foundation community do to help ensure that GNOME 3 is a success? I tested the version of gnome-shell in F13, and I thought it was really amazing and useful - except for the absence of applets (or gizmos, or whatever the nom de jour is). I can't seem to pin down the definitive gnome-shell policy on applets (it seems to be in flux, though I could be missing something). Is it the intent to have weather applets and system monitor applets in the first GNOME 3 release? Sorry if this seems like a small picture thing rather than a big picture thing, but can't see anyone adopting gnome-shell at this workplace if these applets are missing. - Mike ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
