Re: [fpc-devel] FPC compiler architecture documentation
Mark Morgan Lloyd schrieb: However, what's needed /is/ the big picture, starting off with what's needed for a port (a PC, preferably running Linux, and a working FPC), where the modified source should be put (local svn, Lazarus CCR, or a branch of the main repository, and who to talk to and/or how best to do it in each case), and what naming conventions etc. should be applied (roughly, how to set up ./compiler/x and what to change in ./compiler to make the build process aware of it). Let me summarize the recent answers on this topic: 1. FPC is a production compiler[1]. 2. Implementors shall ask the developers concrete questions, once they start running into problems. [1] "production" means that the compiler is a moving target, with optimization in the first place - documentation will be outdated once it has been written. The same applies to the code for new targets, as long as it is not yet maintained by the core developers. The basic FPC code violates all acknowledged programming rules, by e.g. using global variables for caching all over, so that it's impossible to track assignments to the underlying record fields. With respect to everybody concerned, I'd strongly suggest that http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/ZSeries/Part_1 et seq. are worth reviewing since they contain a number of misconceptions that have been echoed by others (e.g. that the best way to start is to have a working Pascal compiler on the target system). A cross compiler doesn't deserve an bootstrap compiler on every target system. Delphi goes the same route BTW. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] FPC compiler architecture documentation
Florian Klaempfl wrote: Am 31.08.2012 09:32, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 08/30/2012 10:20 PM, Florian Klaempfl wrote: I doubt that a good developer needs such a document to get into the compiler... Hmmm. I once thought about trying to do an fpc compiler for a not yet supported arch, and I still am interested in having (AKA contributing to such an effort) an "up to date" fpc compiler for as well 68K as PIC32 (AFAIK identical to a certain version of MIPS32). I doubt that I would even be able to start, unless an up-to-date documentation of the appropriate parts of the docu is available. The big picture which could be documented is the easy part. But such a document can never cover all details and the details are the hairy part. Like certain properties of the target architecture might be special and not yet covered by the compiler thus they cannot be documented. They are the challenging and time consuming part when adding a new architecture. I for one am very much aware of that, since for reasons not directly related to FPC I'm spending a lot of time inside CPU manuals (I've now got to something like p290 of the IBM S/390 manual, and it's finally starting to talk about opcodes- although it's not yet discussed the register model). However, what's needed /is/ the big picture, starting off with what's needed for a port (a PC, preferably running Linux, and a working FPC), where the modified source should be put (local svn, Lazarus CCR, or a branch of the main repository, and who to talk to and/or how best to do it in each case), and what naming conventions etc. should be applied (roughly, how to set up ./compiler/x and what to change in ./compiler to make the build process aware of it). We can really do without another David Zhang episode where somebody well-meaning flattens the directory structure and duplicates files needlessly. With respect to everybody concerned, I'd strongly suggest that http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/ZSeries/Part_1 et seq. are worth reviewing since they contain a number of misconceptions that have been echoed by others (e.g. that the best way to start is to have a working Pascal compiler on the target system). It's entirely in order for a document to state that some elements of what it describes are unknown, or unknowable without feedback from the reader. But there are still targets worth supporting and people with the motivation and target-specific skills to do so, and keeping the project "closed by complexity" is to nobody's advantage. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] FPC compiler architecture documentation
Am 31.08.2012 09:32, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 08/30/2012 10:20 PM, Florian Klaempfl wrote: I doubt that a good developer needs such a document to get into the compiler... Hmmm. I once thought about trying to do an fpc compiler for a not yet supported arch, and I still am interested in having (AKA contributing to such an effort) an "up to date" fpc compiler for as well 68K as PIC32 (AFAIK identical to a certain version of MIPS32). I doubt that I would even be able to start, unless an up-to-date documentation of the appropriate parts of the docu is available. The big picture which could be documented is the easy part. But such a document can never cover all details and the details are the hairy part. Like certain properties of the target architecture might be special and not yet covered by the compiler thus they cannot be documented. They are the challenging and time consuming part when adding a new architecture. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode and Short Strings
On Fri, August 31, 2012 16:22, Michael Schnell wrote: > On 08/31/2012 03:21 PM, Tomas Hajny wrote: >> Type ShortString stays unchanged (locale specific 8-bit character set). >> > Thus there will be auto-conversion when doing MyShortString := MyString; ? Yes, this auto-conversion already exists now. Tomas ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode and Short Strings
On 08/31/2012 03:21 PM, Tomas Hajny wrote: Type ShortString stays unchanged (locale specific 8-bit character set). Thus there will be auto-conversion when doing MyShortString := MyString; ? Thanks, -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode and Short Strings
On Fri, August 31, 2012 12:39, Michael Schnell wrote: > Regarding the discussion of potentially providing the Delphi compatible > "String" type with 16 bit characters: What is in this case happening to > Short strings. I don't know how Delphi handles this. Type ShortString stays unchanged (locale specific 8-bit character set). Tomas ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] Unicode and Short Strings
Regarding the discussion of potentially providing the Delphi compatible "String" type with 16 bit characters: What is in this case happening to Short strings. I don't know how Delphi handles this. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] What does fpc_ansistr_unique do?
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Amir wrote: Hi, I was profiling my code, that I noticed that there are about 2M calls to fpc_ansistr_unique function (5% of the CPU time). I could not find any reference to what this function does and/or who calls this function. I appreciate any help in this regard. It makes sure that the reference count of the string is 1, making a copy if necessary. Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] What does fpc_ansistr_unique do?
Hi, I was profiling my code, that I noticed that there are about 2M calls to fpc_ansistr_unique function (5% of the CPU time). I could not find any reference to what this function does and/or who calls this function. I appreciate any help in this regard. Amir ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] FPC compiler architecture documentation
Michael Schnell wrote: On 08/30/2012 10:20 PM, Florian Klaempfl wrote: I doubt that a good developer needs such a document to get into the compiler... Hmmm. I once thought about trying to do an fpc compiler for a not yet supported arch, and I still am interested in having (AKA contributing to such an effort) an "up to date" fpc compiler for as well 68K as PIC32 (AFAIK identical to a certain version of MIPS32). I doubt that I would even be able to start, unless an up-to-date documentation of the appropriate parts of the docu is available. I tried to make notes when looking at the "unofficial" MIPS compiler on Sourceforge, but things suddenly started moving faster than I could keep track of (I'll probably chop what I did out of the wiki once the compiler is stable). I still felt I learned a lot, but there has to be a better way. http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Native_MIPS_Systems Paul Edwards started to make a list of units and their relationships (in the context of a mainframe compiler), but I don't see any recent updates. http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/ZSeries/Part_1 -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] FPC compiler architecture documentation
On 08/30/2012 10:20 PM, Florian Klaempfl wrote: I doubt that a good developer needs such a document to get into the compiler... Hmmm. I once thought about trying to do an fpc compiler for a not yet supported arch, and I still am interested in having (AKA contributing to such an effort) an "up to date" fpc compiler for as well 68K as PIC32 (AFAIK identical to a certain version of MIPS32). I doubt that I would even be able to start, unless an up-to-date documentation of the appropriate parts of the docu is available. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
