Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On Tue, September 18, 2018 03:52, Ralf Quint wrote: > On 9/17/2018 3:42 PM, Tomas Hajny wrote: >> P.S.: As probably well-known, especially to people using Internet as >> long as some of our subscribers, writing words in uppercase is considered >> as an equivalent of shouting and thus not very polite. Please, stick to >> polite communication on this list (and preferably elsewhere too ;-) ). > And people that really use the Internet for a long time, should also > know that capitalizing _single words_ means to put an *emphasize* on > them (as "back in the good old days" there was just plain text emails, > with no option for underline, italic or bold), rather than shouting. > Shouting is considered when the whole sentence/message is written in all > caps... ;-) While I understand that netiquette rules may have slight variations, e.g. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 doesn't have any kind of distinction between using capital letters for single words or whole sentences and suggests different approach for emphasizing. My 26 old experience suggests the same. In any case, any potential responses to this message should be sent to fpc-other (or me personally) rather than to this list, because this topic is not on topic here. Tomas ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On 9/17/2018 3:42 PM, Tomas Hajny wrote: P.S.: As probably well-known, especially to people using Internet as long as some of our subscribers, writing words in uppercase is considered as an equivalent of shouting and thus not very polite. Please, stick to polite communication on this list (and preferably elsewhere too ;-) ). And people that really use the Internet for a long time, should also know that capitalizing _single words_ means to put an *emphasize* on them (as "back in the good old days" there was just plain text emails, with no option for underline, italic or bold), rather than shouting. Shouting is considered when the whole sentence/message is written in all caps... ;-) Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On Mon, September 17, 2018 19:40, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: Dear Alexander, >> In fact, you SHOULD use native OS widgets > > I SHOULD ??? Not-not. I NOT SHOULD something in > principle. > > In GNU/Linux Core and widgets is independent. . . As already correctly pointed out by others, this mailing list is intended for discussion about development of the Free Pascal Compiler, not about RAD tools, either existing or potential ones. If you want to start discussions on other topics, feel free to use the list fpc-other instead. Thank you Tomas (one of FPC mailing list moderators) P.S.: As probably well-known, especially to people using Internet as long as some of our subscribers, writing words in uppercase is considered as an equivalent of shouting and thus not very polite. Please, stick to polite communication on this list (and preferably elsewhere too ;-) ). ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
In our previous episode, wkitt...@windstream.net said: > > See about dependent Lazarus: GTK widgets. GTK is C widgets, but not native > > Pascal widgets. > > AFAIK, the term "native" is about OS widget look... not about language vs > language... It is not just look, but also feel. IOW that the keyboard navigation works the same, that the application adjust to skins etc. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On 9/17/2018 10:40 AM, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: In fact, you SHOULD use native OS widgets I SHOULD ??? Not-not. I NOT SHOULD something in principle. In GNU/Linux Core and widgets is independent. "Native" (dictate) "widgets" is only in Windows. It bad OS and relegate delete. GNU/Linux is infinity more power OS, than Windows. I known cross-platform method, but say not about it. For GNU/Linux need RAD IDE coincide power and possibles. This **systems** not equal. Again, I am sorry Alexander, but you need to get out of the house and "smell the roses". Take off your blinders, the real world is far different from what you imagine/pretend it to be. It's not only Windows vs Linux (seems you are effected by Stallmanitis), but this applies for macOS as well. Or OS/2. Or any other OS that Lazarus (which is the IDE for FreePascal, among a couple others) supports. As Michael already mentioned, FreePascal is just a compiler, if you want to discuss ANY RAD environment, please use a more appropriate mailing list, fpc-devel is only about the compiler itself... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
> In fact, you SHOULD use native OS widgets I SHOULD ??? Not-not. I NOT SHOULD something in principle. In GNU/Linux Core and widgets is independent. "Native" (dictate) "widgets" is only in Windows. It bad OS and relegate delete. GNU/Linux is infinity more power OS, than Windows. I known cross-platform method, but say not about it. For GNU/Linux need RAD IDE coincide power and possibles. This **systems** not equal. On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 08:53:23 -0700 Ralf Quint wrote: > On 9/17/2018 6:08 AM, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: > > Why not allowed ? > > > > Here resolve future of FPC. > > > > Currently good and full resolved only console part of FreePascal. Need > > graphics. > > > > Desintegrate community is not way for resolve this problems. > > > > If need then integrate here xorg, kernel, rms developers until problem is > > not resolved. > > > > Not separate. > Sorry Alexander, but that is bollocks! > > There is no need to "integrate" any of these, it is not even logically > possible. > And what you seem to be forgetting is that FreePascal (and Lazarus) work > not only on Linux but are cross-platform. You HAVE TO use the widget set > of the underlying OS, as much as possible. In fact, you SHOULD use > native OS widgets where ever possible. It would be utter nonsense to try > and reproduce each and everything on Windows, Linux, macOS and all the > other OS that Lazarus supports... > > Ralf > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ___ > fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org > http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On 09/17/2018 02:20 AM, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: I obtain lazarus_1_8_4 sources and make it. See about dependent Lazarus: GTK widgets. GTK is C widgets, but not native Pascal widgets. AFAIK, the term "native" is about OS widget look... not about language vs language... -- NOTE: No off-list assistance is given without prior approval. *Please keep mailing list traffic on the list unless* *a signed and pre-paid contract is in effect with us.* ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On 9/17/2018 6:08 AM, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: Why not allowed ? Here resolve future of FPC. Currently good and full resolved only console part of FreePascal. Need graphics. Desintegrate community is not way for resolve this problems. If need then integrate here xorg, kernel, rms developers until problem is not resolved. Not separate. Sorry Alexander, but that is bollocks! There is no need to "integrate" any of these, it is not even logically possible. And what you seem to be forgetting is that FreePascal (and Lazarus) work not only on Linux but are cross-platform. You HAVE TO use the widget set of the underlying OS, as much as possible. In fact, you SHOULD use native OS widgets where ever possible. It would be utter nonsense to try and reproduce each and everything on Windows, Linux, macOS and all the other OS that Lazarus supports... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On Mon, 17 Sep 2018, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: Why not allowed ? Because MSEide+MSEgui is a different project. Free Pascal makes a compiler. Not a GUI. You can use the compiler to make a GUI and a RAD IDE, but this is not the goal of the FPC team. There are other teams who focus on that. If you have questions about RAD/IDE/GUI's you need to ask on the MSEide+MSEgui list, or the lazarus list or the fpGUI list. Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
Why not allowed ? Here resolve future of FPC. Currently good and full resolved only console part of FreePascal. Need graphics. Desintegrate community is not way for resolve this problems. If need then integrate here xorg, kernel, rms developers until problem is not resolved. Not separate. On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:21:54 +0200 Martin Schreiber wrote: > Hi Alexander, > > It is not allowed to discuss MSEide+MSEgui themes here. I will answer on the > MSEide+MSEgui mailing list: > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/mseide-msegui/lists/mseide-msegui-talk > Archive: > https://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net/ > > Martin > ___ > fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org > http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
Hi Alexander, It is not allowed to discuss MSEide+MSEgui themes here. I will answer on the MSEide+MSEgui mailing list: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mseide-msegui/lists/mseide-msegui-talk Archive: https://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net/ Martin ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
Hi Martin, 1. On my computer with free drivers **working all soft** exclude MSE. 2. Non free dirivers is not drivers. Not needed. 3. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69543 developers dont known Pascal and MSE :) 4. May be problem MSE on this drivers from **network** and **time delay** issues ? On nonfree drivers delays minimized and MSE have time for display img ? Incorrect architecture for xorg ? On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 08:46:08 +0200 Martin Schreiber wrote: > On Monday 17 September 2018 05:51:17 Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: > > > I try use of MSEide,gui beforehand Lasarus, but excellent result not get. > > > > Lasarus use non native for FPC widgets, MSE non stable work. > > > Can you be more specific? Reproducible MSEide+MSEgui bugs are normally fixed > in hours or one to two days. > > > Console FPC excellent work, but without graphics. > > > > Need more attention for RAD graphical environments from side FPC > > developers. > > > > Author MSE say that bad some **drivers**, but it need to more accurate > > test. > > > > I made http://soft.self-made-free.ru/ 'Birthdays reminder' on minimal > > set of possibles of MSE and it worn on this driver, but IDE on this driver > > work incorrect. > > > > May be say author about driver is wrong ? > > > Do you mean the "EXA pixmap acceleration" problem with Radeon and other > opensource Linux graphic drivers? I was not able to find a bug or a > workaround in MSEgui. The EXA acceleration system is not maintained it seems: > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69543 > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84253 > Please use the proprietary graphic driver for your graphic chip, it has been > reported that they work well with MSEgui. Debugging Linux kernel modules and > graphic drivers is out of my possibilities. > > There are more "unsolvable" issues with drawing primitives, ex. > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99705 > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106628 > > or with window managers. The Linux Mint team stole the show: > https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=251027 > where the Cinnamon devels marked reports for bugs which already have been > fixed in Gnome3 as spam. > Take a potion of popcorn and follow the links... > > It looks to me that Linux desktop environment developers only check if > Firefox > works OK. If yes, all further reports are ignored or the reporters are > treated as idiots. BTW, the Lazarus GTK widgetset probably also suffers from > minimized -> normal windowstate issue in Cinnamon. > I don't have the time or nerves anymore to fight such battles, MSEide+MSEgui > users must become active themselves. > > Please don't answer to this mail, use the MSEide+MSEgui mailinglist instead: > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/mseide-msegui/lists/mseide-msegui-talk > Archive: > https://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net/ > > Thanks, Martin > ___ > fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org > http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On 17/09/18 06:30, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: I obtain lazarus_1_8_4 sources and make it.See about dependent Lazarus: GTK widgets. GTK is C widgets, but not native Pascal widgets. MSE have independent widgets. I want have RAD IDE, not just IDE. This is advantage Pascal over C. GTK is a /library/ written in C. It sits on top of X11, written in C. They sit on top of an operating system, written in C. They all run on a processor written in VHDL or something similar. I'm afraid that it's just something you're going to have to live with, imagining that you can do absolutely everything in a single language is quixotic. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On Monday 17 September 2018 05:51:17 Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: > I try use of MSEide,gui beforehand Lasarus, but excellent result not get. > > Lasarus use non native for FPC widgets, MSE non stable work. > Can you be more specific? Reproducible MSEide+MSEgui bugs are normally fixed in hours or one to two days. > Console FPC excellent work, but without graphics. > > Need more attention for RAD graphical environments from side FPC > developers. > > Author MSE say that bad some **drivers**, but it need to more accurate > test. > > I made http://soft.self-made-free.ru/ 'Birthdays reminder' on minimal > set of possibles of MSE and it worn on this driver, but IDE on this driver > work incorrect. > > May be say author about driver is wrong ? > Do you mean the "EXA pixmap acceleration" problem with Radeon and other opensource Linux graphic drivers? I was not able to find a bug or a workaround in MSEgui. The EXA acceleration system is not maintained it seems: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69543 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84253 Please use the proprietary graphic driver for your graphic chip, it has been reported that they work well with MSEgui. Debugging Linux kernel modules and graphic drivers is out of my possibilities. There are more "unsolvable" issues with drawing primitives, ex. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99705 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106628 or with window managers. The Linux Mint team stole the show: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=251027 where the Cinnamon devels marked reports for bugs which already have been fixed in Gnome3 as spam. Take a potion of popcorn and follow the links... It looks to me that Linux desktop environment developers only check if Firefox works OK. If yes, all further reports are ignored or the reporters are treated as idiots. BTW, the Lazarus GTK widgetset probably also suffers from minimized -> normal windowstate issue in Cinnamon. I don't have the time or nerves anymore to fight such battles, MSEide+MSEgui users must become active themselves. Please don't answer to this mail, use the MSEide+MSEgui mailinglist instead: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mseide-msegui/lists/mseide-msegui-talk Archive: https://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Martin ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On Mon, 17 Sep 2018, Alexander via fpc-devel wrote: On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:52:24 +0200 Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: Alexander via fpc-devel schrieb am Mo., 17. Sep. 2018, 07:20: > Lasarus use non native for FPC widgets, MSE non stable work. > Huh? Please explain that. Lazarus is *the* example for using native widgets and is one of the points the authors of MSE and fpGUI complain about with the LCL. Regards, Sven > I obtain lazarus_1_8_4 sources and make it. See about dependent Lazarus: GTK widgets. GTK is C widgets, but not native Pascal widgets. When we speak of "native widgets", we mean "native to the operating system". What you mean is 'pure pascal' widgets. Lazarus can work with the 'custom-drawn widgetset' or with fpGUI. Both are pascal implementations of widget sets. I don't know how well these widgetsets work. In each case, I do not believe that creating a pascal widget set will result in a better RAD experience. Using the operating system's widget sets ensures that you use a widgetset which has been tested by a much larger audience than just the pascal community. They will be more stable and bug free than a pure pascal implementation. Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:52:24 +0200 Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: > Alexander via fpc-devel schrieb am Mo., > 17. Sep. 2018, 07:20: > > > Lasarus use non native for FPC widgets, MSE non stable work. > > > > Huh? Please explain that. Lazarus is *the* example for using native widgets > and is one of the points the authors of MSE and fpGUI complain about with > the LCL. > > Regards, > Sven > > > I obtain lazarus_1_8_4 sources and make it. See about dependent Lazarus: GTK widgets. GTK is C widgets, but not native Pascal widgets. MSE have independent widgets. I want have RAD IDE, not just IDE. This is advantage Pascal over C. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
Alexander via fpc-devel schrieb am Mo., 17. Sep. 2018, 07:20: > Lasarus use non native for FPC widgets, MSE non stable work. > Huh? Please explain that. Lazarus is *the* example for using native widgets and is one of the points the authors of MSE and fpGUI complain about with the LCL. Regards, Sven > ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] Graphical RAD IDE in FPC
Hi, I try use of MSEide,gui beforehand Lasarus, but excellent result not get. Lasarus use non native for FPC widgets, MSE non stable work. Console FPC excellent work, but without graphics. Need more attention for RAD graphical environments from side FPC developers. Author MSE say that bad some **drivers**, but it need to more accurate test. I made http://soft.self-made-free.ru/ 'Birthdays reminder' on minimal set of possibles of MSE and it worn on this driver, but IDE on this driver work incorrect. May be say author about driver is wrong ? In all need search problem. In FPC, in MSE, in drivers, in kernel, in xorg, in wayland ... I want use excellent full-free RAD IDE more power than Delphi in GNU/Linux. With specific graphics and network possibles GNU/Linux what more than in Windows. Include possibles made self Linux Desktop/WM, DM ... On FPC widgets. With autocomplete. By rework/combine exist IDEs or made new RAD IDE especially for GNU/Linux. Good Luck, Alexander. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
