Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/24/2013 05:12 AM, Michel Catudal wrote:

To use ICD, an external system that supports ICD must load a debugger executive 
program into
the microcontroller...


I see. This obviously is different from, the way PIC24 is handled. This 
the debugging interface is just a  communication pipe.


Now _hopefully_ they did use standards, and the "debugger executive 
program" is compatible with gdbserver (which makes sense as they do use 
the gnu compiler suite).


With that, it could be doable to use the cross gdb (for MIPS, running on 
PC) to access the PIC32 via the debug interface.


Maybe this is what EJTAGproxy does.

-Michael

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/24/2013 03:56 AM, Michel Catudal wrote:
Some USB message trapping! 
Nope. What I would try to do (if having some spare time) would by try to 
find out what file might do the gdb functionality (including the dwarf 
handling), hoping that same could be accessed by Eclipse as "gdb".


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-23 03:30, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> On 05/22/2013 10:31 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:
>> Without the PE you need to program a word at a time. There is no way that 
>> you can compete in speed with Microchip's PICKit or ICD without this. 
> ... unless you recreate what the PICKit (rather the ICD3) does with a 
> homebrew device (e.g. using PICKit hardware) and "driver" that communicates 
> with the PC in a way you define (receiving blocks of data to be programmed) 
> and handles the chip's interface
> appropriately.
>
>
>> Since Microchip will not release information on their proprietary debugging 
>> we need to use debugger that support MIPS debug mode. 
>
> Does this not help ?
>
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/51242a.pdf
>
>
> Another way (without creating hardware) would be to find out how MPLABX 
> interfaces PICKit or ICD3. I am convinced that they do use gdb in some way, 
> but I did not easily find out more on this.
>
> -Michael
>
>From 61132B document

To use ICD, an external system that supports ICD must load a debugger executive 
program into
the microcontroller. This is automatically handled by many debugger tools, such 
as the MPLAB
IDE. For PIC32MX devices, the program is loaded into the last page of the Boot 
Flash memory
space. When not debugging, the application is free to use the last page of Boot 
Flash Memory.

The document in question has some information on the debug registers. There is 
no very much but that could be a start.

The part that is installed into the processor for programming is called 
Programming Executive (PE) You can find the document about programming on 
Microchip's web site.

pic32prog does use the PE

https://code.google.com/p/pic32prog/

Michel





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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-23 03:30, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> On 05/22/2013 10:31 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:
>> Without the PE you need to program a word at a time. There is no way that 
>> you can compete in speed with Microchip's PICKit or ICD without this. 
> ... unless you recreate what the PICKit (rather the ICD3) does with a 
> homebrew device (e.g. using PICKit hardware) and "driver" that communicates 
> with the PC in a way you define (receiving blocks of data to be programmed) 
> and handles the chip's interface
> appropriately.
>

Not a PIC32, debugging is bound to be different. Most likely they have some 
similarity though.

>
>> Since Microchip will not release information on their proprietary debugging 
>> we need to use debugger that support MIPS debug mode. 
>
> Does this not help ?
>
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/51242a.pdf
>
>
> Another way (without creating hardware) would be to find out how MPLABX 
> interfaces PICKit or ICD3. I am convinced that they do use gdb in some way, 
> but I did not easily find out more on this.
>
> -Michael
>

Some USB message trapping!



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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Martin Schreiber]

On Thursday 23 May 2013 11:06:52 Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 10:50 AM, Martin Schreiber wrote:
> > Or the gdbserver runs on the PC and communicates with a debug interface
> > hardware. MSEide uses this approach to debug AVR32 code with the "AVR
> > ONE!" debugger and ARM chips (for example Energy Micro Tiny Gecko) with
> > the Segger J-Link debugger which is built-in in the inexpensive demo
> > board.
>
> I see.
>
> I did not  expect that someone would be inclined to go  this way, as you
> need to implement the (published but rather "internal") gdb<->gdbserver
> pipe protocol, and additionally you need to do the arch-dependent
> interpretation in your own software rather than have gdb do this and
> provide the results via it's well-understood command line pipe interface.
>
> But obviously you did have good reasons to do so. (Can you provide a
> short explanation, why ?)
>
You misunderstood. The chain is 
MSEide->gdb->gdbserver->debughardware->target.

> What kind of interface does "AVR ONE!" provide ?

AFAIK debugWIRE, PDI, aWire, JTAG, Nexus.

> Does it come with a 
> gdbserver type of "driver" on the PC ?
>
Yes.

> BTW.: can you say anything regarding the PIC32 debugging issue ?
>
I don't use PIC32, sorry.

Martin
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/23/2013 10:50 AM, Martin Schreiber wrote:


Or the gdbserver runs on the PC and communicates with a debug interface
hardware. MSEide uses this approach to debug AVR32 code with the "AVR ONE!"
debugger and ARM chips (for example Energy Micro Tiny Gecko) with the Segger
J-Link debugger which is built-in in the inexpensive demo board.

I see.

I did not  expect that someone would be inclined to go  this way, as you 
need to implement the (published but rather "internal") gdb<->gdbserver 
pipe protocol, and additionally you need to do the arch-dependent 
interpretation in your own software rather than have gdb do this and 
provide the results via it's well-understood command line pipe interface.


But obviously you did have good reasons to do so. (Can you provide a 
short explanation, why ?)


What kind of interface does "AVR ONE!" provide ? Does it come with a 
gdbserver type of "driver" on the PC ?


BTW.: can you say anything regarding the PIC32 debugging issue ?

Thanks,
-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Martin Schreiber]

On Thursday 23 May 2013 10:10:05 Michael Schnell wrote:
>
> That in fact is exactly what I meant to say. AFAI understand, these are
> "cross-gdbs", running on the PC, but compiled for supporting a "foreign"
> arch via some kind of interface (e.g. a programming adapter). But they
> are full gdb's being accessed by a command line interface. OTOH a
> "gdb-server" (or "stub") runs on the target device 

Or the gdbserver runs on the PC and communicates with a debug interface 
hardware. MSEide uses this approach to debug AVR32 code with the "AVR ONE!" 
debugger and ARM chips (for example Energy Micro Tiny Gecko) with the Segger 
J-Link debugger which is built-in in the inexpensive demo board.

Martin
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/22/2013 10:59 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:


Not true. When debugging an AVR32 gdb is called avr32-gdb, a pic32 gdb would be 
called pic32mx-gdb. avr32-gdb talks to avr32gdbproxy for debugging and 
avr32program for programming. You could have a gdb version that talks directly 
thru jtag if you would spend the time writing it. You cannot use the on board 
gdb to debugger a foreign processor.


That in fact is exactly what I meant to say. AFAI understand, these are 
"cross-gdbs", running on the PC, but compiled for supporting a "foreign" 
arch via some kind of interface (e.g. a programming adapter). But they 
are full gdb's being accessed by a command line interface. OTOH a 
"gdb-server" (or "stub") runs on the target device (that might be a 
different arch) and is to be accessed via a pipe interface by a "full" 
gdb program on a PC that - again - provides the command line interface 
that can be accessed by a Terminal or by Eclipse and friends.


gdb has to be compiled for the target otherwise it will only support 
local opcodes .

Yep.

-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/22/2013 10:31 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:
I don't recall seeing debugging in the source code released for the 
PICKit. Correct me if I am wrong.


In fact I did not take a look there, but I understand that with PICKit 
the lines are toggles vie USB and thus no such intelligence is necessary 
in the adapter. OTOH, I understand that ICD3 has built-in Intelligence 
to provide better performance with debugging and Flash programming.


-Michael

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/22/2013 10:31 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:
Without the PE you need to program a word at a time. There is no way 
that you can compete in speed with Microchip's PICKit or ICD without 
this. 
... unless you recreate what the PICKit (rather the ICD3) does with a 
homebrew device (e.g. using PICKit hardware) and "driver" that 
communicates with the PC in a way you define (receiving blocks of data 
to be programmed) and handles the chip's interface appropriately.



Since Microchip will not release information on their proprietary 
debugging we need to use debugger that support MIPS debug mode. 


Does this not help ?

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/51242a.pdf


Another way (without creating hardware) would be to find out how MPLABX 
interfaces PICKit or ICD3. I am convinced that they do use gdb in some 
way, but I did not easily find out more on this.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-22 03:26, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring wrote:
>> If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their 
>> gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, right now 
>> I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.
>
>
> I don't think the term "gdbserver" is correct here (in a traditional way).
>
> An IDE (such as DDD, Eclipse, Lazarus, ...) is supposed to access the 
> "normal" gdb via the normal line interface (pipe), while gdbserver (aka the 
> "gdb stub") is supposed to be accessed via the gdb (main) program itself via 
> a dedicated gdb-internal pipe.
>
Not true. When debugging an AVR32 gdb is called avr32-gdb, a pic32 gdb would be 
called pic32mx-gdb. avr32-gdb talks to avr32gdbproxy for debugging and 
avr32program for programming. You could have a gdb version that talks directly 
thru jtag if you would
spend the time writing it. You cannot use the on board gdb to debugger a 
foreign processor.
>
> That  is why there are two ways to make Lazarus do remote (and potentially 
> cross-arch) debugging:
>
> (A) Use gdb (compiled for the PC arch, maybe with respect to the target arch 
> in order to allow disassembling etc) on the development PC and have it access 
> gdbserver (compiled for the target arch) on the remote machine e.g. via a 
> TCP/IP socket pipe.

gdb has to be compiled for the target otherwise it will only support local 
opcodes.
>
> (B) Have Lazarus via ssh start and access the command line of the normal gdb 
> main program on the remote machine compiled for the target arch.
>
> -Michael
>
The remote PIC32 or AVR32 do not have an operating system so it is illogical to 
think that there would be a gdb on that end.


Michel


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-22 03:20, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> If you install some software on the target for self-programming, you of 
> course can use any (serial) interface to transfer the user software and burn 
> it into the Chip's Flash. That way an USB-to-serial Adapter providing async, 
> SPI and/or I²C offers
> perfect speed. (As the serial USB Adapter you can use the PICKit hardware 
> which is rather cheap and comes from Microchip pre-programmed with the 
> appropriate firmware as "Serial Dongle" or similar.
>
> Of course you can't (easily) do debugging via such a serial interface. here 
> using the debug hardware built in the chip seems much more appropriate.
>
> The debugging (and "hardware" Flash programming) pins of the PIC chips are 
> not necessary handled in a "bit-banging via USB" mode. The ICD-3 Adapter (but 
> supposedly not the PICKit) uses internal intelligence here and the image to 
> be programmed is
> transferred in blocks of bytes via USB.
>
> -Michael
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I am talking about the connection to the processor. If you use JTAG this would 
be faster because you have more pins to bit bang with.
With the Microchip specific hardware they use less pins so you have to do some 
multiplexing. If you have to wait for data to be done then the time saving with 
faster bit banging wouldn't help you.

With the PE you download that into the processor and then you just fill a 
buffer and tell the PE to copy into flash. Without the PE you need to program a 
word at a time. There is no way that you can compete in speed with Microchip's 
PICKit or ICD without
this. I saw the source for the PICKit and it uploads the PE for reflashing. As 
for the emulator it is likely to use either the JTAG or Microchip's own 
hardware. The USB port is on the emulator and not the processor being debugged. 
There is some
intelligence as in the Atmel and NEC debuggers for debugging but not for 
programming. For programming the PE is used. Since Microchip will not release 
information on their proprietary debugging we need to use  debugger that 
support MIPS debug mode.
I don't recall seeing debugging in the source code released for the PICKit. 
Correct me if I am wrong.

Michel

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring wrote:
If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their 
gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, 
right now I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.



I don't think the term "gdbserver" is correct here (in a traditional way).

An IDE (such as DDD, Eclipse, Lazarus, ...) is supposed to access the 
"normal" gdb via the normal line interface (pipe), while gdbserver (aka 
the "gdb stub") is supposed to be accessed via the gdb (main) program 
itself via a dedicated gdb-internal pipe.



That  is why there are two ways to make Lazarus do remote (and 
potentially cross-arch) debugging:


(A) Use gdb (compiled for the PC arch, maybe with respect to the target 
arch in order to allow disassembling etc) on the development PC and have 
it access gdbserver (compiled for the target arch) on the remote machine 
e.g. via a TCP/IP socket pipe.


(B) Have Lazarus via ssh start and access the command line of the normal 
gdb main program on the remote machine compiled for the target arch.


-Michael


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

If you install some software on the target for self-programming, you of 
course can use any (serial) interface to transfer the user software and 
burn it into the Chip's Flash. That way an USB-to-serial Adapter 
providing async, SPI and/or I²C offers perfect speed. (As the serial USB 
Adapter you can use the PICKit hardware which is rather cheap and comes 
from Microchip pre-programmed with the appropriate firmware as "Serial 
Dongle" or similar.


Of course you can't (easily) do debugging via such a serial interface. 
here using the debug hardware built in the chip seems much more 
appropriate.


The debugging (and "hardware" Flash programming) pins of the PIC chips 
are not necessary handled in a "bit-banging via USB" mode. The ICD-3 
Adapter (but supposedly not the PICKit) uses internal intelligence here 
and the image to be programmed is transferred in blocks of bytes via USB.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-17 03:42, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> I did not do anything on PIC32, yet, but using the non-JTAG native PIC 
> interface with PIC24 and PICKit performance is (AFAIRemenber) something like 
> one second for 32 K and a fraction of a second using ICD3.
>
> So JTAG with PIC is really disappointing.
>
> -Michael
>
That is why the challenge is so interesting. My goal is to do something just as 
fast or faster with JTAG.

Michel


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-17 03:36, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> On 05/17/2013 02:42 AM, Michel Catudal wrote:
>> using the PE from Microchip.
> What is "PE" ?
>
> If you intend to use a PIC as an interface chip why not just use a PICKit as 
> the hardware and implement your software on same ?
>
> In fact Microchip themselves sell the PICKit hardware with multiple firmware 
> variants loaded (e.g. as an adapter to attach asynchronous and SPI data 
> steams to USB.
>
> -Michael
>

PE is a programming software that is uploaded to the PIC32. It increases the 
download speed quite a bit. What I am looking at is a very fast program by 
using GPIO instead of sending bit bang command thru USB. I do that stuff for 
fun, it distracts me from
my automotive and military software I have to do day after day.
Microchip provides this PE for free. I think that they use it with the PICKIT.

With the odroid they have a small interface ($15) that connects to the USB, I 
got two of those. I think that I should be able to upload some custom software 
to the PIC that is on board. The PIC is  PIC18F45K5O-QFN. The only catch is 
that the compiler is
$200, need to convince the finance minister (wife) unless I can find a cheaper 
one.
If I can access enough GPIO on the Mele A2000G I might use that one for that. 
Hacking the Mele was kind of interesting as I had to be able to read a few 
Chinese words to change the language to French from the default Chinese. I have 
created a Gentoo with
Mate desktop on that one. It is about half the speed of the Odroid but it has a 
connector for a sata hard disk, The odroid runs at 2Ghz and has a nice heatsink 
and a fan.

Michel

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

I did not do anything on PIC32, yet, but using the non-JTAG native PIC 
interface with PIC24 and PICKit performance is (AFAIRemenber) something 
like one second for 32 K and a fraction of a second using ICD3.


So JTAG with PIC is really disappointing.

-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/17/2013 02:42 AM, Michel Catudal wrote:

using the PE from Microchip.

What is "PE" ?

If you intend to use a PIC as an interface chip why not just use a 
PICKit as the hardware and implement your software on same ?


In fact Microchip themselves sell the PICKit hardware with multiple 
firmware variants loaded (e.g. as an adapter to attach asynchronous and 
SPI data steams to USB.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

  
  
Le 2013-05-16 02:53, Michael Schnell a
  écrit :


  
  On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring
wrote:
  
  If you find the time to find out how to actually
start up & use their gdbserver I will be more than happy to
integrate it into lazarus, right now I take what I can get and
that seems to be openocd. 

  
  
  Maybe this helps
  
  http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/ejtagproxy-opwn-source-gdb-interface-for-pic32-and-mips/
  
  "EJTAGproxy open source GDB interface for PIC32 and MIPS"
  
  They say "PIC-KIT3
  (ICSP) and ARM-USB-TINY (JTAG) interfaces are
  supported."
  
  -Michael
  
  

Neat, thanks for the info. I will see if I can use some of it to
build my ejtagproxy on Odroid U2 and X2. I would first use my
ARM-USB-Tiny to test, basically just porting it to Odroid to start
with.

Michel


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-16 03:19, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> On 05/15/2013 11:48 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:
>>
>> As I mentioned earlier, I have enough information from Microchip to make a 
>> fast programmer. What I will need to add is debugging.
>
> I would rather use PickIT or ICD3 than build my own hardware (in fact this 
> would help those PIC users that can't do hardware themselves).
>
> Here, EJTAGproxy looks interesting, but of course I don't know whether it is 
> decently fast.
>
> Maybe it really does not use use the debug interface built in the PIC chip 
> (and supported by PICKit), but some kind of JTAG communication. This could be 
> slow, because, AFAIK, PICKit out of the box does not internally do JTAG, but 
> it can be made to do
> JTAG, as you can toggle each single communication pin via USB. OTOH, PICKit 
> hardware is simple and it contains a PIC chip, so you can create and load 
> your own JTAG enabled firmware, if you dare.
>
> -Michael
>

The raphberry pi could be made into a nice device for programming and 
debugging. The graphic sucks so a headless device would be more usefull. 
OpenOcd is too generic, cannot be fast. My approach is a dedicated programmer 
for the PIC32 using the PE from
Microchip. For debugging I would use openocd until I get my gdbproxy working. 
Rasphberry pi is only $35 which is cheaper than JTAG programmers.
Rasphberry Pi is actually very fast if you don't have the X environment to slow 
it down.  Once I manage to get setedit to work on the command line I will no 
longer need the X interface. The latest development on turbo vision seems to 
have locked it into
using X. I am digging into this to uncripple it. What I would like to have is 
something just like we use to have on Dos.

My more interesting project is to have a full development system on an Odroid 
U2 or Odroid X2. The odroid is actually so fast that it rivals with some 
computers. It costs a little more, an Odroid U2 is $85, still cheaper than most 
JTAG programmers.

Michel

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-16 04:39, Sven Barth a écrit :
> Am 15.05.2013 23:35, schrieb Michel Catudal:
>> When I used the fpcbuild.zip snapshot it would crash when starting to 
>> compile the RTL, much like it does for my AVR32 pascal compiler.
>> On the other hand when I use the fpc.zip snapshot it compiles beautifully 
>> and lazarus works great. I did have to copy the source to where lazarus 
>> wanted it. Something in the full package breaks the compiling for RTL.
> Could you (at best in a new thread) report the errors you got so that either 
> your way of building or the bug in the AVR port can be corrected?
>
> Regards,
> Sven

That work was on fpc on Odroid for Odroid. I just mentioned that the bug looks 
a lot like the one I had with my AVR32 compiler.
I will do as you ask but one about the ARM port and one on my AVR32 port if it 
turns out that I was right on my theory about the similarity.
I checked last night the difference between the two and there are difference 
with regard to the RTL, I have not looked into details yet as I work during the 
day. My next task is to see if I can get a fully functional lazarus with hard 
float on Ubuntu on
the Odroid U2. The one that comes with the Ubuntu I installed crashes often. 
The one I have on funtoo does not.

Michel

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Paul Breneman]

Michael Ring wrote:
I finished first tests on memory read performance fot jtag probes/pic32, 
all on my Mac except the raspberry test:


Olimex TINY-H with openocd:120 Seconds for 32k of data
Olimex TINY-H with ejtagproxy: 10 Seconds for 1k of data, I did not have 
the patience to wait for the transfer of 32k ;-)


Raspberry PI with openocd in gpiomode: 50 Seconds for 32k of data

J-Link Edu with openocd: 30 Seconds for 32k of data

mikroProg from Mikro-E: approx. 8 Seconds for 32k (but no gdbserver and 
ICD Protocol on windows, only for reference)


ST-Link2: not yet tested.

pickit3 on ejtagproxy: not yet tested

I had high hopes for the Raspberry Pi solution because there's no USB 
transfer involved, sniff.


J-Link performance is not stellar, but will be good enough for me right 
now.


If anybody has better results, please feel free to share on how you were 
able to get better performance.


Michael

Am 16.05.13 09:55, schrieb Michael Ring:

Nice find, question is why did I not find this link ;-)

I etched some testboards yesterday and connected them to my 
ARM-USB-TINY, openocd detects the chip just fine but Michel was right, 
flash read performance is a mess, it took two minutes to read out the 
32k flash of my pic32mx220 chip, that's pretty slow. I will check if a 
j-link or st-link work better, but I do not have high hopes.


But perhaps the ejtagproxy or pic32prog can solve this problem, will 
keep you posted.


Michael

Am 16.05.13 08:53, schrieb Michael Schnell:

On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring wrote:
If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use 
their gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into 
lazarus, right now I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.




Maybe this helps

http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/ejtagproxy-opwn-source-gdb-interface-for-pic32-and-mips/ 



"EJTAGproxy open source GDB interface for PIC32 and MIPS"

They say "PIC-KIT3  (ICSP) 
andARM-USB-TINY (JTAG) 
interfaces are supported."


-Michael


You might want to try the new BeagleBone Black as it might be better for 
real-time machine control (and boots up in a more standard way) than the 
Raspberry Pi?  A friend of mine put together a lot of this page:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

I finished first tests on memory read performance fot jtag probes/pic32, 
all on my Mac except the raspberry test:


Olimex TINY-H with openocd:120 Seconds for 32k of data
Olimex TINY-H with ejtagproxy: 10 Seconds for 1k of data, I did not have 
the patience to wait for the transfer of 32k ;-)


Raspberry PI with openocd in gpiomode: 50 Seconds for 32k of data

J-Link Edu with openocd: 30 Seconds for 32k of data

mikroProg from Mikro-E: approx. 8 Seconds for 32k (but no gdbserver and 
ICD Protocol on windows, only for reference)


ST-Link2: not yet tested.

pickit3 on ejtagproxy: not yet tested

I had high hopes for the Raspberry Pi solution because there's no USB 
transfer involved, sniff.


J-Link performance is not stellar, but will be good enough for me right now.

If anybody has better results, please feel free to share on how you were 
able to get better performance.


Michael

Am 16.05.13 09:55, schrieb Michael Ring:

Nice find, question is why did I not find this link ;-)

I etched some testboards yesterday and connected them to my 
ARM-USB-TINY, openocd detects the chip just fine but Michel was right, 
flash read performance is a mess, it took two minutes to read out the 
32k flash of my pic32mx220 chip, that's pretty slow. I will check if a 
j-link or st-link work better, but I do not have high hopes.


But perhaps the ejtagproxy or pic32prog can solve this problem, will 
keep you posted.


Michael

Am 16.05.13 08:53, schrieb Michael Schnell:

On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring wrote:
If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use 
their gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into 
lazarus, right now I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.




Maybe this helps

http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/ejtagproxy-opwn-source-gdb-interface-for-pic32-and-mips/

"EJTAGproxy open source GDB interface for PIC32 and MIPS"

They say "PIC-KIT3  (ICSP) 
andARM-USB-TINY (JTAG) 
interfaces are supported."


-Michael


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Sven Barth]

Am 15.05.2013 23:35, schrieb Michel Catudal:

When I used the fpcbuild.zip snapshot it would crash when starting to compile 
the RTL, much like it does for my AVR32 pascal compiler.
On the other hand when I use the fpc.zip snapshot it compiles beautifully and 
lazarus works great. I did have to copy the source to where lazarus wanted it. 
Something in the full package breaks the compiling for RTL.
Could you (at best in a new thread) report the errors you got so that 
either your way of building or the bug in the AVR port can be corrected?


Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

I read some threads a frew days ago that openocd already works on 
Raspberry Pi over gpio, this might be just what you need if I understand 
you correctly. Fortunately I have still one Pi left @home to also try 
this..


http://code.google.com/p/picnc/wiki/OpenOCD_PIC32_Programmer

and

https://github.com/synthetos/PiOCD/wiki/Using-a-Raspberry-Pi-as-a-JTAG-Dongle

Michael

Am 15.05.13 23:48, schrieb Michel Catudal:

Le 2013-05-15 06:11, Michael Ring a écrit :

If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their gdbserver 
I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, right now I take what I can 
get and that seems to be openocd.

I have wasted quite some time in trying to make LPC-Link for the LPCExpresso 
Boards work and I do not want to duplicate this effort with another, also more 
or less undocumented tool unless I see no other choice (because flasing is dog 
slow, for example)

Michael



As I mentioned earlier, I have enough information from Microchip to make a fast 
programmer. What I will need to add is debugging. Since I cannot get detailed 
debugging information from Microchip what can be used is the MIPS debugger. I 
read that some
people are successfull with it. I would have to either use open ocd for the 
debugging or do my own.  Since I want to do this on an ARM board, the debugger 
from Microchip is not an option. Their debugger is closed source.


Michel



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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

Nice find, question is why did I not find this link ;-)

I etched some testboards yesterday and connected them to my 
ARM-USB-TINY, openocd detects the chip just fine but Michel was right, 
flash read performance is a mess, it took two minutes to read out the 
32k flash of my pic32mx220 chip, that's pretty slow. I will check if a 
j-link or st-link work better, but I do not have high hopes.


But perhaps the ejtagproxy or pic32prog can solve this problem, will 
keep you posted.


Michael

Am 16.05.13 08:53, schrieb Michael Schnell:

On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring wrote:
If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their 
gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, 
right now I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.




Maybe this helps

http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/ejtagproxy-opwn-source-gdb-interface-for-pic32-and-mips/

"EJTAGproxy open source GDB interface for PIC32 and MIPS"

They say "PIC-KIT3  (ICSP) 
andARM-USB-TINY (JTAG) 
interfaces are supported."


-Michael


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/15/2013 11:48 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:


As I mentioned earlier, I have enough information from Microchip to make a fast 
programmer. What I will need to add is debugging.


I would rather use PickIT or ICD3 than build my own hardware (in fact 
this would help those PIC users that can't do hardware themselves).


Here, EJTAGproxy looks interesting, but of course I don't know whether 
it is decently fast.


Maybe it really does not use use the debug interface built in the PIC 
chip (and supported by PICKit), but some kind of JTAG communication. 
This could be slow, because, AFAIK, PICKit out of the box does not 
internally do JTAG, but it can be made to do JTAG, as you can toggle 
each single communication pin via USB. OTOH, PICKit hardware is simple 
and it contains a PIC chip, so you can create and load your own JTAG 
enabled firmware, if you dare.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/15/2013 12:11 PM, Michael Ring wrote:
If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their 
gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, 
right now I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.




Maybe this helps

http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/ejtagproxy-opwn-source-gdb-interface-for-pic32-and-mips/

"EJTAGproxy open source GDB interface for PIC32 and MIPS"

They say "PIC-KIT3  (ICSP) 
andARM-USB-TINY (JTAG) 
interfaces are supported."


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-15 06:11, Michael Ring a écrit :
> If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their 
> gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, right now I 
> take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.
>
> I have wasted quite some time in trying to make LPC-Link for the LPCExpresso 
> Boards work and I do not want to duplicate this effort with another, also 
> more or less undocumented tool unless I see no other choice (because flasing 
> is dog slow, for example)
>
> Michael
>
>
As I mentioned earlier, I have enough information from Microchip to make a fast 
programmer. What I will need to add is debugging. Since I cannot get detailed 
debugging information from Microchip what can be used is the MIPS debugger. I 
read that some
people are successfull with it. I would have to either use open ocd for the 
debugging or do my own.  Since I want to do this on an ARM board, the debugger 
from Microchip is not an option. Their debugger is closed source.


Michel

-- 
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http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-15 05:41, Michael Schnell a écrit :
> On 05/14/2013 10:01 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:
>>
>> I found the interface to open ocd to be very slow for flashing, basically 
>> useless.
>
> Regarding PIC, I don't see any advantage for open ocd vs the Microchip 
> adapters. PICKit is cheap and decently fast, ICD3 is really fast not too 
> expensive either.
>
> I understand that both are used via gdb when accessed by MPLabX, thus  gdb 
> --tui or ddd  should work and making Lazarus work should be possible.
>
> -Michael
>
Some people do not like the closed source of the debugger. OpenOCD is an option 
for them. I consider it in its infancy, I am sure that in time it will be much 
better.

If you need an option on an ARM or MIPS machine then you have few choices. For 
that MPLABX is not even an option.

Michel


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-15 04:36, Michael Ring a écrit :
> Hi Michel!
>
> You are talking about integrating mips into your debugger, what does this 
> mean? Are you talking about Setedit or something else?
>
> Michael

Mips to debug PIC32. I was looking at first at the Rasphberry pi, I may do that 
or use an Odroid U2 with the little remote IO thru USB  that uses a PIC. For 
the AVR32 I will probably need to use the debugger JTAGICE thru Scientific 
Linux. Raspberry pi is
nice that it has gpios but its graphic speed sucks. Odroid U2 might be great 
with the little remote IOs, don't know yet, I may end up using the Odroid X2 
which has direct access to GPIOs. If I could get setedit working on the console 
without X that would
be good enough on the Raspberry pi, I haven't been able to do that yet. It 
wants X. It actually works nicely with ssh as it uses the host X.

I work mostly with AVR32 UC3C because of my work in the automotive industry, 
but the PIC32 is looking more and more interesting. As you can see on my web 
page I have a C Compiler for the PIC32 with no limitation on optimization, it 
is basically done with a
released source code from Microchip with the code that limits it removed. It 
lacks library but you can easily use the ones that Microchip has.

Personnally I usually prefer to do my own. What I plan to do on the PIC32 is 
basically what I am doing on the AVR32, is doing the modules outside of the 
compiler. There are too many parts so it will be easier to have the compiler 
being somewhat generic and
have the startup code on the side of the application. The libraries would not 
be the same package as the compiler but an addon.

Right now there is a serious bug on the pascal compiler development that keeps 
my AVR32 implementation from compiling and that kind of stalls my progress. It 
crashes when it is time to compile the RTL. That is using the development tree.
It compiled OK with the 2.6.0 release.

I have found a very interesting thing as I was trying to get fpc to compile for 
hard float on odroid U2. That is done on funtoo.
I have created my own Linux installation on my odroid U2, it is funtoo hard 
float. I have even installed the mali 3D driver for X.
I have created the Mate Desktop, actually running smootly. I got lazarus to 
work nicely this past sunday, hardware float. I installed funtoo on a 32G 
MicroSD card. I have yet to get the mali EGL to work with my funtoo. When using 
Ubuntu I can play movies
from an external 200G hard disk connected on the  USB  port.

When I used the fpcbuild.zip snapshot it would crash when starting to compile 
the RTL, much like it does for my AVR32 pascal compiler.
On the other hand when I use the fpc.zip snapshot it compiles beautifully and 
lazarus works great. I did have to copy the source to where lazarus wanted it. 
Something in the full package breaks the compiling for RTL.

Michel

-- 
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

If you find the time to find out how to actually start up & use their 
gdbserver I will be more than happy to integrate it into lazarus, right 
now I take what I can get and that seems to be openocd.


I have wasted quite some time in trying to make LPC-Link for the 
LPCExpresso Boards work and I do not want to duplicate this effort with 
another, also more or less undocumented tool unless I see no other 
choice (because flasing is dog slow, for example)


Michael

Am 15.05.13 11:41, schrieb Michael Schnell:

On 05/14/2013 10:01 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:


I found the interface to open ocd to be very slow for flashing, 
basically useless.


Regarding PIC, I don't see any advantage for open ocd vs the Microchip 
adapters. PICKit is cheap and decently fast, ICD3 is really fast not 
too expensive either.


I understand that both are used via gdb when accessed by MPLabX, thus  
gdb --tui or ddd  should work and making Lazarus work should be possible.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/14/2013 10:01 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:


I found the interface to open ocd to be very slow for flashing, basically 
useless.


Regarding PIC, I don't see any advantage for open ocd vs the Microchip 
adapters. PICKit is cheap and decently fast, ICD3 is really fast not too 
expensive either.


I understand that both are used via gdb when accessed by MPLabX, thus  
gdb --tui or ddd  should work and making Lazarus work should be possible.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

Hi Michel!

You are talking about integrating mips into your debugger, what does 
this mean? Are you talking about Setedit or something else?


Michael

Am 14.05.13 22:01, schrieb Michel Catudal:

Le 2013-05-14 06:13, Marco van de Voort a écrit :

In our previous episode, Michael Ring said:

I did not yet invest much time in finding out if PICKit supports a
GDBServer, but pic32mx chips do support jtag based debugging/flashing
and openocd has pic32mx support. (see
http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=346142, implementation started
in 2008)

Afaik the 16-bit too, but it carries some additional remarks that seem
to indicate it is only partially integrated and mainly used for boundery
scan.

(I'm mostly dspicF and recently -E user but when I bought my explorer16 I
also got a 32MX PMU)

I found the interface to open ocd to be very slow for flashing, basically 
useless. It might have improved since my last test. Check it on a regular basis.

I did communicate with Microchip about the debugger and they provided me with 
documentation on programming using the PE. As for debugging I didn't get a 
straight answer but will look into adding mips debugging to my debugger. JTAG 
MIPS debugging should be
simple.

Take note that this is work in progress, it could be a while as right now I 
spend my spare time on the AVR32 Pascal Compiler and getting my funtoo and 
Ubuntu lazarus up and running on the Odroid U2. PIC32 is my next target. I will 
use the Raspberry Pi,
Odroid U2 or Odroid X2 as the debugger platform. Rasphberry pi might need a 
command line debugger, graphic is a bit slow. Odroid U2 doesn't have GPIO 
access, perhaps the USB port might work fine.

Michel




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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-05-14 06:13, Marco van de Voort a écrit :
> In our previous episode, Michael Ring said:
>> I did not yet invest much time in finding out if PICKit supports a 
>> GDBServer, but pic32mx chips do support jtag based debugging/flashing 
>> and openocd has pic32mx support. (see 
>> http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=346142, implementation started 
>> in 2008)
> Afaik the 16-bit too, but it carries some additional remarks that seem
> to indicate it is only partially integrated and mainly used for boundery
> scan. 
>
> (I'm mostly dspicF and recently -E user but when I bought my explorer16 I
> also got a 32MX PMU)
I found the interface to open ocd to be very slow for flashing, basically 
useless. It might have improved since my last test. Check it on a regular basis.

I did communicate with Microchip about the debugger and they provided me with 
documentation on programming using the PE. As for debugging I didn't get a 
straight answer but will look into adding mips debugging to my debugger. JTAG 
MIPS debugging should be
simple.

Take note that this is work in progress, it could be a while as right now I 
spend my spare time on the AVR32 Pascal Compiler and getting my funtoo and 
Ubuntu lazarus up and running on the Odroid U2. PIC32 is my next target. I will 
use the Raspberry Pi,
Odroid U2 or Odroid X2 as the debugger platform. Rasphberry pi might need a 
command line debugger, graphic is a bit slow. Odroid U2 doesn't have GPIO 
access, perhaps the USB port might work fine.

Michel


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Marco van de Voort]

In our previous episode, Michael Ring said:
> I did not yet invest much time in finding out if PICKit supports a 
> GDBServer, but pic32mx chips do support jtag based debugging/flashing 
> and openocd has pic32mx support. (see 
> http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=346142, implementation started 
> in 2008)

Afaik the 16-bit too, but it carries some additional remarks that seem
to indicate it is only partially integrated and mainly used for boundery
scan. 

(I'm mostly dspicF and recently -E user but when I bought my explorer16 I
also got a 32MX PMU)
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

...
That is why my goal would be  to be able to call fpc-generated functions 
(which should be rather independent of the chip-variant ) from a running 
MPLab-X  projects, and be able to debug them using Lazarus.


-Michael


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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/14/2013 10:33 AM, Michael Ring wrote:
 my personal goal is not complete coverage of all aspects of a 
microcontroller ...


Hmmm.

Regarding PIC, Microchip provides hundreds of variants of PIC32. They 
differ in the available I/O elements. The library that comes with MPLab 
X provides the basic defines, macros and functions for theses elements 
(not all do make sense, though) in a way that fits with the chip in 
question.


I don't see how this decently can be covered in pure Microchip - 
independent Pascal code.


-Michael

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

Am 14.05.13 08:47, schrieb Michael Schnell:

On 05/13/2013 08:07 PM, Michael Ring wrote:

... pic32mx controllers ...


BTW.:
AFAIK, the PIC controllers (16 and 32 Bit) use a propriety debug 
interface to be accessed by "PICKit" an "ICD-3" adapters. They do use 
a gnu based  (though propriety made, and payed) C-compiler and linker 
. AFAI understand they use gdb under the hood and as there is the 
("NETBeans" based "MPLab-X" IDE that runs as well on Windows as on 
Linux, it should be possible to use the Lazarus to debug a PIC32 
device, if you can set up the Lazarus-gdb-interface appropriately


I did not yet invest much time in finding out if PICKit supports a 
GDBServer, but pic32mx chips do support jtag based debugging/flashing 
and openocd has pic32mx support. (see 
http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=346142, implementation started 
in 2008)




.

Do you plan for allowing PIC32 development using Lazarus ? I suppose 
for that you not only need the gdb interface, but also a way to 
integrate MPLab-X originated library files to be integrated in the RTL 
to have the processor even start running. )
For me my gdb-interface to lazarus still has some rough edges, at the 
moment I mainly use gdb --tui or ddd for debugging low level (for 
cortex-m0) until I have figured out in more detail which rough edges I 
still have to cover in the lazarus interface.
When this is done you can use Lazarus for development, I do my coding 
already in Lazarus, and the debugging if I am on a cortex-m3 chip and do 
not need to go too deep into the implementation.


About MPlab Libs: I like to do things low-level so I prefer to implement 
my own objects for gpio and spi,.. as I need them.


Using the pre-build libs might be a lot easier but I am doing this for 
fun, my personal goal is not complete coverage of all aspects of a 
microcontroller but instead I want to be able to use a pic32, a 
cortex-m0 or cortex-m3 based on my hobby project restrictions, for 
example lqfp chips are hard to solder (at least for me, I am getting old 
;-) ) and you need to take a lot of care when creating PCB's so I prefer 
either LPC-81x for very small projects that need only few lines of code 
and in future I would like to use pic32mx chips in soic or tqfp 
packages, they have roughly the same features as the cortex-m0/3 chips 
but are available in a lot of different packages.


For Cortex-M3 (which I currently use for main development) I use the 
excellent easy-mx pro v7 board from micro-e, but the translation to 
self-etched boards is difficult because those both nxp and stm only have 
lqfp for their cortex-m3 chips.


And/or do you plan to allow for MPLab-X projects to integrate fpc 
generated units ?




Definitely no, sorry  ;-)


Thanks,
-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/13/2013 08:07 PM, Michael Ring wrote:

... pic32mx controllers ...


BTW.:
AFAIK, the PIC controllers (16 and 32 Bit) use a propriety debug 
interface to be accessed by "PICKit" an "ICD-3" adapters. They do use a 
gnu based  (though propriety made, and payed) C-compiler and linker . 
AFAI understand they use gdb under the hood and as there is the 
("NETBeans" based "MPLab-X" IDE that runs as well on Windows as on 
Linux, it should be possible to use the Lazarus to debug a PIC32 device, 
if you can set up the Lazarus-gdb-interface appropriately.


Do you plan for allowing PIC32 development using Lazarus ? I suppose for 
that you not only need the gdb interface, but also a way to integrate 
MPLab-X originated library files to be integrated in the RTL to have the 
processor even start running.


And/or do you plan to allow for MPLab-X projects to integrate fpc 
generated units ?


Thanks,
-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 05/13/2013 08:07 PM, Michael Ring wrote:

... pic32mx controllers ...


G R E A T !!!

unfortunately I don't currently do development on PIC32 yet, but I plan 
to upgrade our PIC24 based products to PIC32 some day.


I might be able to  do some testing once you have a Beta version.

-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Sven Barth]

Am 13.05.2013 22:48, schrieb Michael Ring:

Am 13.05.13 20:36, schrieb Florian Klämpfl:

Am 13.05.2013 20:07, schrieb Michael Ring:

OK, I got kind of bored last weekend and started to implement
mips-embedded target. The crosscompiler builds fine and already shows
the list of (not yet implemented) pic32mx controllers, I am now
searching through the code for places that I need to change.

One thing that makes me wonder is how mips and mipsel defines are
related and when to use the 'mips' and when to use 'mipsel'.

mips: mipsel and mipseb


Perhaps I was not clear enough, when doing defines for embedded in the 
code should I use:


{$if defined(arm) or defined(avr) or defined(mips)}

or

{$if defined(arm) or defined(avr) or defined(mipsel)}

It seems that Florian was not clear enough either:
- use mipsel if it applies to MIPS Little Endian only
- use mipseb if it applies to MIPS Big Endian only
- use mips if it applies to both MIPS Little and Big endian

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

Am 13.05.13 20:36, schrieb Florian Klämpfl:

Am 13.05.2013 20:07, schrieb Michael Ring:

OK, I got kind of bored last weekend and started to implement
mips-embedded target. The crosscompiler builds fine and already shows
the list of (not yet implemented) pic32mx controllers, I am now
searching through the code for places that I need to change.

One thing that makes me wonder is how mips and mipsel defines are
related and when to use the 'mips' and when to use 'mipsel'.

mips: mipsel and mipseb


Perhaps I was not clear enough, when doing defines for embedded in the 
code should I use:


{$if defined(arm) or defined(avr) or defined(mips)}

or

{$if defined(arm) or defined(avr) or defined(mipsel)}

On Cortex-M0:

I received a J-Link Edu Probe today, it did not arrive in time before 
the weekend, so that was the reason why I was bored and started with 
mipsel-embedded ;-)


My guess is that the problems I had in debugging the Cortex-M0 Code were 
caused by the (somehow braindead) LPC-Link Probe, I will test this week 
if debugging works better with the J-Link probe.


Michael




Should I use 'mips' wherever posible or are those two really different
architectures? (Well, OK, one is big and one is little endian, quite a
difference)

There's one big favour I would like to ask, Florian, could you please
enable mipsel-embedded in fpcmake and then re-generate the makefiles?

Yes, I can do so.


I have done this in my local copy but now a svn diff looks like a big
mess because all those makefile changes make it hard for me to spot my
code changes.

Look at svn st -q to identify the changed files.



I have also had a look at the changeset for avr-embedded, there were a
lot of changes in the codegen and other places, do you expect that the
same will need to be done for mips

No.


or was avr a special case?

You must always distinguish between port to a new OS (like linux,
"embedded", *BSD, ...) and port a to a new CPU (avr, arm, mips, ...).

BTW: Any news on Cortex-M0?
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Florian Klämpfl]

Am 13.05.2013 20:07, schrieb Michael Ring:
> OK, I got kind of bored last weekend and started to implement
> mips-embedded target. The crosscompiler builds fine and already shows
> the list of (not yet implemented) pic32mx controllers, I am now
> searching through the code for places that I need to change.
> 
> One thing that makes me wonder is how mips and mipsel defines are
> related and when to use the 'mips' and when to use 'mipsel'.

mips: mipsel and mipseb

> 
> Should I use 'mips' wherever posible or are those two really different
> architectures? (Well, OK, one is big and one is little endian, quite a
> difference)
> 
> There's one big favour I would like to ask, Florian, could you please
> enable mipsel-embedded in fpcmake and then re-generate the makefiles?

Yes, I can do so.

> 
> I have done this in my local copy but now a svn diff looks like a big
> mess because all those makefile changes make it hard for me to spot my
> code changes.

Look at svn st -q to identify the changed files.

> 
> 
> I have also had a look at the changeset for avr-embedded, there were a
> lot of changes in the codegen and other places, do you expect that the
> same will need to be done for mips 

No.

> or was avr a special case?

You must always distinguish between port to a new OS (like linux,
"embedded", *BSD, ...) and port a to a new CPU (avr, arm, mips, ...).

BTW: Any news on Cortex-M0?
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

OK, I got kind of bored last weekend and started to implement 
mips-embedded target. The crosscompiler builds fine and already shows 
the list of (not yet implemented) pic32mx controllers, I am now 
searching through the code for places that I need to change.


One thing that makes me wonder is how mips and mipsel defines are 
related and when to use the 'mips' and when to use 'mipsel'.


Should I use 'mips' wherever posible or are those two really different 
architectures? (Well, OK, one is big and one is little endian, quite a 
difference)


There's one big favour I would like to ask, Florian, could you please 
enable mipsel-embedded in fpcmake and then re-generate the makefiles?


I have done this in my local copy but now a svn diff looks like a big 
mess because all those makefile changes make it hard for me to spot my 
code changes.



I have also had a look at the changeset for avr-embedded, there were a 
lot of changes in the codegen and other places, do you expect that the 
same will need to be done for mips or was avr a special case?


Michael

Am 17.02.13 17:44, schrieb Michael Ring:
Your timeline sounds fine to me, I am currently quite busy to get the 
openocd based debugging with lazarus right and, even more important, 
to write some _real_ code on arm systems. (I am currently porting my 
PIC based qlocktwo-clone to arm)


In case I get so bored in the next one or two months that I feel the 
urge to start before you I will definitely let you know, with some 
guidance I should be able to get at least something basic working...  ;-)


Michael

Am 17.02.13 15:11, schrieb Michel Catudal:

Le 2013-02-17 07:48, Michael Ring a écrit :
This all sounds promising, I can contribute definitions for 
PIC32MX1/MX2 series of controllers.


Michael

Am 17.02.13 09:21, schrieb Florian Klämpfl:
I have a lot done on my AVR32 port, still got to figure out the 
compiler crash, in a few months I should be done and the PIC32 is 
high on my list. If you start a port before me let me know and I will 
contribute instead of starting my own.


Michel Catudal




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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 02/17/2013 03:11 PM, Michel Catudal wrote:

the PIC32 is high on my list.

GREAT !

fpc really is a model of a vivid community project.

Thanks,
-Michael

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

Your timeline sounds fine to me, I am currently quite busy to get the 
openocd based debugging with lazarus right and, even more important, to 
write some _real_ code on arm systems. (I am currently porting my PIC 
based qlocktwo-clone to arm)


In case I get so bored in the next one or two months that I feel the 
urge to start before you I will definitely let you know, with some 
guidance I should be able to get at least something basic working...  ;-)


Michael

Am 17.02.13 15:11, schrieb Michel Catudal:

Le 2013-02-17 07:48, Michael Ring a écrit :

This all sounds promising, I can contribute definitions for PIC32MX1/MX2 series 
of controllers.

Michael

Am 17.02.13 09:21, schrieb Florian Klämpfl:

I have a lot done on my AVR32 port, still got to figure out the compiler crash, 
in a few months I should be done and the PIC32 is high on my list. If you start 
a port before me let me know and I will contribute instead of starting my own.

Michel Catudal




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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-02-17 07:48, Michael Ring a écrit :
> This all sounds promising, I can contribute definitions for PIC32MX1/MX2 
> series of controllers.
>
> Michael
>
> Am 17.02.13 09:21, schrieb Florian Klämpfl:

I have a lot done on my AVR32 port, still got to figure out the compiler crash, 
in a few months I should be done and the PIC32 is high on my list. If you start 
a port before me let me know and I will contribute instead of starting my own.

Michel Catudal


-- 
For Linux Software visit
http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

This all sounds promising, I can contribute definitions for PIC32MX1/MX2 
series of controllers.


Michael

Am 17.02.13 09:21, schrieb Florian Klämpfl:

Am 14.02.2013 23:44, schrieb Michael Ring:

I have seen a lot of work on mpis platform in svn over the last weeks.
Are there plans to create a mips-embedded target or is this strictly
mips-linux?

It shouldn't be too hard, hardest task is probably to create appropriate
controller specific units.

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Florian Klämpfl]

Am 14.02.2013 23:44, schrieb Michael Ring:
> I have seen a lot of work on mpis platform in svn over the last weeks.
> Are there plans to create a mips-embedded target or is this strictly
> mips-linux?

It shouldn't be too hard, hardest task is probably to create appropriate
controller specific units.

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 02/15/2013 10:14 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote:

Pity that they have a five stage pipeline though. Though the 16-bit lines now 
have
more stalls too (the "e" series is further away from the 1 clock one 1
instruction principle than the "f" was).
I suppose the design goal was using as little hardware as possible (for 
price and power consumption) rather than providing better speed. 
Otherwise they should have been going for ARM instead of MIPS.

but we decided to stick with 16-bit instead.

Same here for the moment, as we are not yet actively planning a "high 
memory" controller based on PIC.


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Marco van de Voort]

In our previous episode, Michael Schnell said:
> Same here.
> 
> AFAIK Microchip is planning PIC32 variants with even more internal RAM 
> and ROM. Same would be very handy for our (and others) embedded 
> controllers.

Pity that they have a five stage pipeline though. Though the 16-bit lines now 
have
more stalls too (the "e" series is further away from the 1 clock one 1
instruction principle than the "f" was).

I btw also have a pic32mx, but I don't use it. I ordered as an extra to play
with for a 16/32-bits combined development board (explorer16) once, but we
decided to stick with 16-bit instead.

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Schnell]

On 02/15/2013 02:46 AM, Michel Catudal wrote:
I am asking because modern PIC32MX Controllers from Microchip are mips 
based, I somehow prefer arm-microcontrollers but when you want to 
build something small and cheap the Microchip controllers still have 
an advantage...


Same here.

AFAIK Microchip is planning PIC32 variants with even more internal RAM 
and ROM. Same would be very handy for our (and others) embedded 
controllers.


On the long ruin I am sure that we will see ARM controllers with a GByte 
internal RAM and a serial Flash interface and thus enable hardware 
designers to build a - cheap and easy to do - PCB with only a few 
connections that can run Linux. But up to that point the PIC32 is 
extremely viable.


-Michael

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Re: [fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michel Catudal]

Le 2013-02-14 17:44, Michael Ring a écrit :
> I have seen a lot of work on mpis platform in svn over the last weeks. Are 
> there plans to create a mips-embedded target or is this strictly mips-linux?
>
> I am asking because modern PIC32MX Controllers from Microchip are mips based, 
> I somehow prefer arm-microcontrollers but when you want to build something 
> small and cheap the Microchip controllers still have an advantage because 
> they are still available in
> DIL-28 or other (more or less)low pin count casings. For arm I only know of 
> Cortex-M0 chips with low pin count, but as far as I understand fpc cannot 
> target Cortex-M0 because there is no armv6m support in the compiler.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
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The PIC32 is on my list, I am busy with the AVR32 for now.

Michel

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[fpc-devel] Is target mips-embedded possible / planned?

[Michael Ring]

I have seen a lot of work on mpis platform in svn over the last weeks. 
Are there plans to create a mips-embedded target or is this strictly 
mips-linux?


I am asking because modern PIC32MX Controllers from Microchip are mips 
based, I somehow prefer arm-microcontrollers but when you want to build 
something small and cheap the Microchip controllers still have an 
advantage because they are still available in DIL-28 or other (more or 
less)low pin count casings. For arm I only know of Cortex-M0 chips with 
low pin count, but as far as I understand fpc cannot target Cortex-M0 
because there is no armv6m support in the compiler.


Michael





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