Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Frank Church wrote: Can variables be declared within a begin end block? No. That found in Gnu Pascal Can we ask to be feature request? Thanks -- Zaher Dirkey ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
RE: [fpc-pascal] TR: Strange Behaviour of TBits
-Message d'origine- De : fpc-pascal-boun...@lists.freepascal.org [mailto:fpc-pascal-boun...@lists.freepascal.org] De la part de Jonas Maebe Envoyé : vendredi 15 octobre 2010 11:11 À : FPC-Pascal users discussions Objet : Re: [fpc-pascal] TR: Strange Behaviour of TBits On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:24, Julien Devillers wrote: The above code returns 1, 2, 3, 3, 4 while it should return 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I Built a TMyBits class using strictly the TBits.inc file from fpc and... the bug does not appear... ! I'm using lazarus 0.9.28.2 beta and fpc 2.2.4 with linux 64. Did I miss something ? Your example works fine with FPC 2.4.0, try upgrading. Jonas ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal I did, it works now. thanks Julien __ Information provenant d'ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version de la base des signatures de virus 5540 (20101017) __ Le message a été vérifié par ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] IntList
Hi In Lazarus project jcf2 component has an IntList class which is poorly implemented. It depends on integer and pointer being the same size. I will later suggest to replace it. I have a better IntList. See: http://github.com/JuhaManninen/Pascal/blob/master/IntList/intlist.pas It is similar to TStringList except that it works with integers. It is well tested. Question: can this class be added to FCL? Clearly such class is needed sometimes and people must make their own versions of it. Generics can solve it in the future but it is not ready yet. If it can't be included then I try to get it to Lazarus libraries. Regards, Juha ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18 October 2010 07:49, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org wrote: Am 18.10.2010 08:17, schrieb Zaher Dirkey: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Frank Church wrote: Can variables be declared within a begin end block? No. That is a rather emphatic no :). Is there some performance or other related reason why it is a bad idea? I'm not knowledgeable in this area but I'd like to know. Sometimes my variable declarations is filled with lots of variables for the sake of making code involving long derived expressions comprehensible and the clutter the understanding at the top level of the procedure. Can a procedure be declared inline just for the sake of introducing those variables? That found in Gnu Pascal Can we ask to be feature request? No. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal -- Frank Church === http://devblog.brahmancreations.com ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] Re: Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18/10/2010 13:58, Frank Church wrote: On 18 October 2010 07:49, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org wrote: [...] No. That is a rather emphatic no :). Is there some performance or other related reason why it is a bad idea? I'm not knowledgeable in this area but I'd like to know. Sometimes my variable declarations is filled with lots of variables for the sake of making code involving long derived expressions comprehensible and the clutter the understanding at the top level of the procedure. Can a procedure be declared inline just for the sake of introducing those variables? I guess it has something to do with 'functions/procedures not to be longer than 3 editor screens' and 'if it is longer and has more responsibilities than the name implies, do split it up' kind of paradigm. c(-like) languages are very bad (don't keep you restrained) at this kind of use ;) and Gnu Pascal is a mere frontend to GCC so it may inherit c-isms ;) Having variables declared within code block used to require to parse the source code at least 2 times as opposed to nice Pascal way of doing it ONCE only. This was a compiler performance winner in the times of ancient 286, 386 ;) (dug out from depths of my memory, may be outdated badly). L. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
Am 18.10.2010 14:58, schrieb Frank Church: On 18 October 2010 07:49, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org mailto:flor...@freepascal.org wrote: Am 18.10.2010 08:17, schrieb Zaher Dirkey: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Frank Church wrote: Can variables be declared within a begin end block? No. That is a rather emphatic no :). Is there some performance or other related reason why it is a bad idea? It's just a matter of readability, e.g. having a variable declared in two blocks with the same name can cause you a lot of headache: procedure p; begin ... begin var i : integer; ... ... ... i:=12341234; ... ... ... ... end; ... ... ... begin var i : integer; ... writeln(i); --- this i is not the same as above so i does not contain 12341234 but it contains probably some garbage. end; ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Re: Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18.10.2010 15:19, Lukasz Sokol wrote: Having variables declared within code block used to require to parse the source code at least 2 times Or create them on the stack at the begin and remove them at the end of the block (which would be the only way to have some additional functionality through this). Bernd ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18 October 2010 14:42, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org wrote:
Am 18.10.2010 14:58, schrieb Frank Church:
On 18 October 2010 07:49, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org
mailto:flor...@freepascal.org wrote:
Am 18.10.2010 08:17, schrieb Zaher Dirkey:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Michael Van Canneyt
mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org
mailto:mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Frank Church wrote:
Can variables be declared within a begin end block?
No.
That is a rather emphatic no :).
Is there some performance or other related reason why it is a bad idea?
It's just a matter of readability, e.g. having a variable declared in
two blocks with the same name can cause you a lot of headache:
procedure p;
begin
...
begin
var i : integer;
...
...
...
i:=12341234;
...
...
...
...
end;
...
...
...
begin
var i : integer;
...
writeln(i); --- this i is not the same as above so i does not
contain 12341234 but it contains probably some garbage.
end;
My need is not for such kind or variables - it is for something like this.
say I have some thing like:
StringList.NameOfIndex(TableName.FieldByName('').AsString)
AnotherEqualLongExpression + SomeOtherEvenLongerExpression.
I just want to create shorter variables like
si := StringList.NameOfIndex(TableName.FieldByName('').AsString);
ae := xxx;
so:= yyy
to express complicated logic with them.
When I put them all at the top of the procedure, they are extra noise, which
is not necessary for the understanding the purpose at the top level of the
procedure.
I understand the need to avoid stuff that could create unintended errors and
have experienced such issues before. I will be careful not to use the more
than enough rope I have been given to hang myself. I promise :)
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===
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18 October 2010 14:55, Frank Church vfcli...@gmail.com wrote:
On 18 October 2010 14:42, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org wrote:
Am 18.10.2010 14:58, schrieb Frank Church:
On 18 October 2010 07:49, Florian Klaempfl flor...@freepascal.org
mailto:flor...@freepascal.org wrote:
Am 18.10.2010 08:17, schrieb Zaher Dirkey:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Michael Van Canneyt
mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org
mailto:mich...@freepascal.org mailto:mich...@freepascal.org
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Frank Church wrote:
Can variables be declared within a begin end block?
No.
That is a rather emphatic no :).
Is there some performance or other related reason why it is a bad idea?
It's just a matter of readability, e.g. having a variable declared in
two blocks with the same name can cause you a lot of headache:
procedure p;
begin
...
begin
var i : integer;
...
...
...
i:=12341234;
...
...
...
...
end;
...
...
...
begin
var i : integer;
...
writeln(i); --- this i is not the same as above so i does not
contain 12341234 but it contains probably some garbage.
end;
My need is not for such kind or variables - it is for something like this.
say I have some thing like:
StringList.NameOfIndex(TableName.FieldByName('').AsString)
AnotherEqualLongExpression + SomeOtherEvenLongerExpression.
I just want to create shorter variables like
si := StringList.NameOfIndex(TableName.FieldByName('').AsString);
ae := xxx;
so:= yyy
to express complicated logic with them.
When I put them all at the top of the procedure, they are extra noise,
which is not necessary for the understanding the purpose at the top level of
the procedure.
I understand the need to avoid stuff that could create unintended errors
and have experienced such issues before. I will be careful not to use the
more than enough rope I have been given to hang myself. I promise :)
I sometimes use nested procedures for such purposes when it comes to the
program logic itself, having something like that for variables would be
nice.
PS. The promise above should be we promise :)
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===
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===
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18.10.2010 15:55, Frank Church wrote:
I just want to create shorter variables like
si := StringList.NameOfIndex(TableName.FieldByName('').AsString);
ae := xxx;
so:= yyy
to express complicated logic with them.
Maybe the usage of WITH could be helpful in some of these cases
Bernd
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18.10.2010 15:55, Frank Church wrote: I understand the need to avoid stuff that could create unintended errors It would create something that I would call irregularity (or even ugliness) in the language grammar. Nowhere else is it ever allowed to have certain things inside a begin/end block, type, const, var are all only allowed in the *same* certain places outside of such blocks. Allowing var would also raise the question why not also allow type and const and this would open a can of worms. It would destroy some (much) of the simplicity (regularity, strictness, beauty, I don't know a better word) of the grammar. Bernd ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Bernd Kreuss wrote: On 18.10.2010 15:55, Frank Church wrote: I understand the need to avoid stuff that could create unintended errors It would create something that I would call irregularity (or even ugliness) in the language grammar. Nowhere else is it ever allowed to have certain things inside a begin/end block, type, const, var are all only allowed in the *same* certain places outside of such blocks. Allowing var would also raise the question why not also allow type and const and this would open a can of worms. It would destroy some (much) of the simplicity (regularity, strictness, beauty, I don't know a better word) of the grammar. My thoughts exactly. Object Pascal is a simple, beautiful and easy to read language. The FPC team tries to keep it that way. If someone needs convincing that this is actually a plus: go and (try to) read and understand any moderately complicated perl program. Latex2html is a nice start :-) Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
I just want to create shorter variables like
si := StringList.NameOfIndex(TableName.FieldByName('').AsString);
ae := xxx;
so:= yyy
to express complicated logic with them.
When I put them all at the top of the procedure, they are extra
noise, which is not necessary for the understanding the purpose at
the top level of the procedure.
I don't see the great extra noise of a
procedure SomeProc([someVars : Type]);
var
[somevars : type;]
si,ae,so : double; // temp vars for easy math;
begin
[...]
end;
and i think the easy answer is:
No you could't, because in pascal you have to declare the vars in the
beginning of a procedure.
or:
No because this is pascal and not C
or:
why couldn't i use spanish in my english? :) *just kidding*
have all a nice day.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
Am 18.10.2010 16:20, schrieb Michael Van Canneyt: Object Pascal is a simple, beautiful and easy to read language. The FPC team tries to keep it that way. And that is why I like the FPC team so much. :D Regards, Sven ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:42:31 +0200, Florian Klaempfl wrote about Re:
[fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?:
[snip]
It's just a matter of readability, e.g. having a variable declared in
two blocks with the same name can cause you a lot of headache:
procedure p;
begin
...
begin
var i : integer;
...
...
...
i:=12341234;
...
...
...
...
end;
...
...
...
begin
var i : integer;
...
writeln(i); --- this i is not the same as above so i does not
contain 12341234 but it contains probably some garbage.
end;
This was not usually a problem in ALGOL 60/68, PL/I or C/C++ -- these
languages have supported short scopes for up to 50 years -- as the
programmer was required to be aware of the different scopes of the
like-named variables.
I still use short scoped variables today, usually in C or C++. I have
never had any such problems, even going back almost 40 years when I
programmed in ALGOL 60. All block structured languages require the
programmer to understand the scope of all variables.
Indeed, short scopes can often circumvent name collisions, e.g.
long some_func(unsigned long arg_1)
{
long i; /* procedure/function scoped */
unsigned max_iters;
. . .
/* calculate i, max_iters and any others */
. . .
for (unsigned i = 0; i max_iters; ++i) /* short scope i */
{
/* i here is distinct from the one at function scope. */
. . .
}
. . .
return i; /* back to procedure scoped i. */
}
Whether it is wise to use such lax naming of variables is open to
debate, but at least C and C++ allow the above.
That said, short scoping was never a part of original Pascal. I think
Jensen Wirth omitted it because it made the compiler simpler.
--
Regards,
Dave [RLU #314465]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On 18 October 2010 15:33, Sven Barth pascaldra...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 18.10.2010 16:20, schrieb Michael Van Canneyt: Object Pascal is a simple, beautiful and easy to read language. The FPC team tries to keep it that way. And that is why I like the FPC team so much. :D agreed. When I went from C++ to Pascal back in 98/99, I found it quite hard initially. Not being able to put variables anywhere everywhere was really awkward, but it dawned on me that I shouold be coding better. Since then, i would say If you need vars throughout your code, then something is wrong with your code - V ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:21:57 +0100 Vannus van...@gmail.com wrote: Since then, i would say If you need vars throughout your code, then something is wrong with your code for (int i = 0;...) Can't see anything wrong. I use declaration of variables inside blocks quite often in Java and C++ but have never missed it in pascal. Please enlighten me. What is so bad about creating temporary variables inside blocks instead of the beginning of a function in a language that supports it? R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] non visual timer win32
Guys i have an app on win32 that runs a timer when a form is hidden , any ideas how i get a timer to work when the form is hidden ? Kind Regards Delphian___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
for (int i = 0;...) Can't see anything wrong. I use declaration of variables inside blocks quite often in Java and C++ but have never missed it in pascal. Please enlighten me. What is so bad about creating temporary variables inside blocks instead of the beginning of a function in a language that supports it? R. But it should make you wonder why this is no longer allowed in the latest C++ standards. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:46:04 -0200, Andreas Berger wrote about Re:
[fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?:
for (int i = 0;...)
Can't see anything wrong. I use declaration of variables inside
blocks quite often in Java and C++ but have never missed it in
pascal. Please enlighten me. What is so bad about creating
temporary variables inside blocks instead of the beginning of a
function in a language that supports it?
R.
But it should make you wonder why this is no longer allowed in the
latest C++ standards.
What do you mean?
The current C++ standard (ISO 1998+TR1) permits short scope
declarations. Indeed, C++ permits declarations to appear anywhere, not
just after a { to open a function or compound statement. It has done
since the A.R.M. days, and in some implementations before that.
--
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
But it should make you wonder why this is no longer allowed in the
latest C++ standards.
What do you mean?
The current C++ standard (ISO 1998+TR1) permits short scope
declarations. Indeed, C++ permits declarations to appear anywhere, not
just after a { to open a function or compound statement. It has done
since the A.R.M. days, and in some implementations before that.
You are correct. Been a while since I programmed in C++. The new
standard enforces that the short scope variable declared in a for loop
goes out of scope at the end of the loop. Older implementations did not
always enforce this. My bad.
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[fpc-pascal] ReadStr/WriteStr vs Val/Str
As a user of the old Macintosh Pascal (later THINK Pascal), both ReadStr and WriteStr functions were included and I used them quite a bit. The names were different but the FPC implementation is basically the same as far as I can tell. Besides backward compatibility, portability issues and personal preference, is there any functionality Val and Str may have that ReadStr and WriteStr don't? I can't see any, but wanted to make sure there there were no subtle technical issue(s) I might need to consider. Thank you for implementing these functions. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Re: Can variables be declared within a block?
- Bernd Kreuss prof7...@googlemail.com schreef: On 18.10.2010 15:19, Lukasz Sokol wrote: Having variables declared within code block used to require to parse the source code at least 2 times Or create them on the stack at the begin and remove them at the end of the block (which would be the only way to have some additional functionality through this). or do the same as with that vb-ism: the 'with' keyword. Only difference(s): it is named/typed and it is block-scoped from the point of declaration to the end of the current block statement. (I never use it, so I'm only guessing that it does something similar to the scenario explained above) on the other hand, what stops the OP from using 'with'? (multiple levels/variables?) and you won't die from using another stack variable scoped at the beginning of the method. just to say that I'm not too fond of that c-ism in a pascal language (although I've used it plenty in c++, java, C#, php, ... over the years). kind regards, Dimitri Smits ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] Re: ReadStr/WriteStr vs Val/Str
Richard Ward row...@mac.com wrote in message
news:6707d87e-2ea6-4469-97a5-cf55d1a04...@mac.com...
As a user of the old Macintosh Pascal (later THINK Pascal), both ReadStr
and WriteStr functions were included and I used them quite a bit. The
names were different but the FPC implementation is basically the same as far
as I can tell.
Besides backward compatibility, portability issues and personal preference,
is there any functionality Val and Str may have that ReadStr and WriteStr
don't? I can't see any, but wanted to make sure there there were no subtle
technical issue(s) I might need to consider.
Thank you for implementing these functions.
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Hi Richard,
I don't know about the Macintosh Pascal ReadStr and WriteStr routines
(never used them), but a 'possible' gotcha is that I think the Str()
function will append a space at the beginning of a value to leave room for
the sign if negative...
if you don't want that then you can use the Format routine instead:
Integer to string:
s := Format('%d',[some integer number]);
float to string:
s := Format('%.4f',[some floating point number]); //formats a floating
point number to 4 decimal places (just change, or remove if you want
scientific notation I think)
I hope this helps :)
cheers,
Paul
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Florian Klaempfl wrote: Am 18.10.2010 14:58, schrieb Frank Church: It's just a matter of readability, e.g. having a variable declared in two blocks with the same name can cause you a lot of headache: So don't allow identical names. Ada allows exactly this feature (declaration within a block) and it is extremely simple and not the least confusing. It's also an easy and error-free way to manage dynamic memory allocation without using pointers. Jerry procedure p; begin ... begin var i : integer; ... ... ... i:=12341234; ... ... ... ... end; ... ... ... begin var i : integer; ... writeln(i); --- this i is not the same as above so i does not contain 12341234 but it contains probably some garbage. end; ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Can variables be declared within a block?
Reimar Grabowski schrieb: for (int i = 0;...) Can't see anything wrong. I use declaration of variables inside blocks quite often in Java and C++ but have never missed it in pascal. Please enlighten me. What is so bad about creating temporary variables inside blocks instead of the beginning of a function in a language that supports it? I never thought about doing such declarations in Pascal. Although I would not be against it in general (provided that all identifiers have to be different) I see one (small) disadvantage: If you want to know the number of bytes pushed to the stack (i.e. in a recursive function) then you don't have the declarations at one place anymore but they are spread over the code which would make it hard to get an overview. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
