Re: [fpc-pascal] Free Pascal - Older Versions

[Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto]

First of all, thanks for Jonas and Sven for the fast answers.

It's unfortunate that you can't provide older versions, but I understand
the reasons exposed.

Thanks for the suggestion, Sven, I'll check the errors I'm having and post
them here for help.

Best regards,

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM Sven Barth 
wrote:

> Am 06.10.2016 17:04 schrieb "Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto" <
> luiz.g.oliveira.n...@gmail.com>:
> > Thanks in advance for any help!
>
> As Jonas said we can't provide you with any older compiler, but if you'd
> tell us what kind of errors you have maybe we can help you. Perhaps it's
> merely something were you use the wrong compiler options.
>
> Regards,
> Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Free Pascal - Older Versions

[Sven Barth]

Am 06.10.2016 17:04 schrieb "Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto" <
luiz.g.oliveira.n...@gmail.com>:
> Thanks in advance for any help!

As Jonas said we can't provide you with any older compiler, but if you'd
tell us what kind of errors you have maybe we can help you. Perhaps it's
merely something were you use the wrong compiler options.

Regards,
Sven
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[fpc-pascal] test plz ignore

[d . ioannidis]

plz ignore

--
Dimitrios Chr Ioannidis
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Marcos Douglas]

Hi Graeme,

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> Hello Marcos,
>
> On 2016-10-06 at 11:41, Marcos Douglas wrote:
>
>> The COM and CORBA names, are both wrong.
>> When you say COM, everybody thinks on Windows... that sad.
>
>
> Yes, both names are horribly inaccurate. Unfortunately I don't see FPC
> developers rectifying that any time soon. :-/

+1
Unfortunately.

Marcos Douglas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Marcos Douglas]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> Hello Marcos,
>
> On 2016-10-06 at 11:25, Marcos Douglas wrote:
>
>> you need to declarate
>> two variables to do one job.
>> I don't like that and I think shouldn't be necessary.
>
> Well, to be fair, that example is not representative of a real-world
> application. In a real-world app, I would not declare and release
> objects and interface references like than - in the same procedure.

Yes of course, I know.

You will do some like that:

constructor TFoo.Create;
begin
  FTheObject := TBar.Create; // implements ITheObject
end;

destructor TFoo.Destroy;
begin
  FTheObject.Free;
end;

procedure TFoo.Execute;
begin
  CallSomethingThatAcceptsAnInterface(FTheObject);
end;

Nothing wrong. But you needs to create TFoo and manage it.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Free Pascal - Older Versions

[Jonas Maebe]

Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto wrote:
> I've found some older versions in this
> link: http://www.freepascal.org/down/old/down.var. But, for Win32, the
> oldest version I've found was the 2.2.2. Is this the oldest version for
> Win32? Is there a place where I could access even older versions of the
> compiler? 

No, sorry. We had to remove access to them because in the early days,
some people appear to have copy/pasted code from the Delphi RTL into the
FPC RTL, which is obviously unacceptable and which constituted copyright
infringement.


Jonas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

Hello Marcos,

On 2016-10-06 at 11:41, Marcos Douglas wrote:

> The COM and CORBA names, are both wrong.
> When you say COM, everybody thinks on Windows... that sad.


Yes, both names are horribly inaccurate. Unfortunately I don't see FPC
developers rectifying that any time soon. :-/


Regards,
  Graeme


-- 
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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[fpc-pascal] Free Pascal - Older Versions

[Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto]

Hello all,

My name is Luiz and I'm a Masters student at Brazil. This is my first
e-mail in this list.

In my Masters research, I've acquired from the author some codes in Pascal,
a language I've never worked with. I need to make some small modifications
to the code and recompile it, but I'm not having success with the latest
version of Free Pascal, the compiler recommended by the author.

I've researched some of the errors that I have and I think there are some
incompatibilities with changes added to newer versions of Free Pascal.
Since I never worked with Pascal, I would rather change the original code
the least I can. So, I'd like to test older versions of the Free Pascal
compiler and see if I can compile with them. I understand that older
versions are not supported and it's always better to use the latest
version, but I have evidence that lead me to believe that the code is
"right", but inconsistent with newer versions, and I think the correct path
would be to first try to compile it with older versions of FPC before
changing it and trying to make it compile with the latest one.

I've found some older versions in this link:
http://www.freepascal.org/down/old/down.var. But, for Win32, the oldest
version I've found was the 2.2.2. Is this the oldest version for Win32? Is
there a place where I could access even older versions of the compiler?

This would really help my research to move forward!

Thanks in advance for any help!

Best regards,

-- 
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 Unicamp - EC09 ---
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

Hello Marcos,

On 2016-10-06 at 11:25, Marcos Douglas wrote:

> you need to declarate
> two variables to do one job.
> I don't like that and I think shouldn't be necessary.

Well, to be fair, that example is not representative of a real-world
application. In a real-world app, I would not declare and release
objects and interface references like than - in the same procedure.


Regards,
  - Graeme -

fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Marcos Douglas]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> On 2016-10-06 02:49, Marcos Douglas wrote:
>> I understand you, but reference counting help us to write a better
>> code, more object-oriented.
>
> That's got nothing to do with reference counting functionality. I use
> object-oriented coding practices all the time, but I don't need
> reference counting for that.

OOP, for me, It is closer to functional programming.
You should to code more declarative and less imperative.
Declare a variable; Create; try-finally; using line-by-line; call
Free... that is imperative, Procedural and not about OOP.

>> I'm using decorator pattern. No problem with it, but delegates makes
>> me write less code and the design is awesome.
>
> So, nothing stops you from using interface delegates with CORBA style
> interfaces. See the example code I just posted, where I converted the
> original example to use CORBA style interfaces instead.

I saw. But I can't use like that, as I explained above. Sorry... but thanks.

> I'm a huge believer and user of design patterns, and most of them I've
> implemented using Interfaces. Nothing there tells me I must use COM
> style interfaces.

The COM and CORBA names, are both wrong.
When you say COM, everybody thinks on Windows... that sad.

IMHO, interfaces with reference-counting is useful to write better
code, less imperative and using a design more closer to functional.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Marcos Douglas]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 7:30 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> On 2016-10-05 16:26, Marcos Douglas wrote:
>> So, I coded a new example — more simpler, I think — to demonstrate the same
>> problem and prove that there is some wrong that is causing a memleak.
>
> And here is that example converted to use CORBA style interfaces and no
> memory leaks.

I've used CORBA before... but see your example, you need to declarate
two variables to do one job.
I don't like that and I think shouldn't be necessary.

Marcos Douglas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Marcos Douglas]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> On 2016-10-06 02:34, Marcos Douglas wrote:
>> But, the result was the same, even using D7.
>> So, is this by design? Sad...
>
> Sad and nasty indeed. But it seems it is “by design” or done for “Delphi
> compatibility”.
>
> It would be interesting to know what Delphi developers think of this.
> You should post the new code example and message to a Delphi newsgroup
> or Google+ forum and see what they think of that. If it has been around
> since the D7 days (and maybe even earlier), they might have an
> explanation or work-around for you.

That's a good idea. I'll do it.

Marcos Douglas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Tony Whyman]

On 06/10/16 11:08, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

I've seem some
COM Interface code where they had to resort to using raw Pointer types
etc to try and avoid reference counting and causing unexpected memory
leaks.
I have also seen plenty of examples of poor coding with classes, but the 
fact that someone writes bad object oriented programs doesn't mean that 
object oriented is a poor programming technique. Likewise, poor 
programming using com interfaces doesn't invalidate the use of com 
interfaces.


When you work with interfaces, there are two issues to consider:

1. How easy is the interface to use
2. How do you write the underlying classes.

To me, the first rules out delegated interfaces and COM. Even advanced 
level programmers will get it wrong and you will never get an easy to 
use interface with this combination. It looks like a design error that 
came from Delphi and was copied by FPC. However, if you rule out this 
combination, COM does make for what seems to be a very intuitive easy to 
use interface, in the same way that AnsiStrings are easy to use.


On the other hand, implementing the classes that provide a com interface 
does require some skill and is not for everyone.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-06 02:49, Marcos Douglas wrote:
> I understand you, but reference counting help us to write a better
> code, more object-oriented.

That's got nothing to do with reference counting functionality. I use
object-oriented coding practices all the time, but I don't need
reference counting for that.


> I'm using decorator pattern. No problem with it, but delegates makes
> me write less code and the design is awesome.

So, nothing stops you from using interface delegates with CORBA style
interfaces. See the example code I just posted, where I converted the
original example to use CORBA style interfaces instead.

I'm a huge believer and user of design patterns, and most of them I've
implemented using Interfaces. Nothing there tells me I must use COM
style interfaces.


> For me, it's a bug. Sorry.

That I agree with. There seems to be a COM reference counted bug.


Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-05 16:26, Marcos Douglas wrote:
> So, I coded a new example — more simpler, I think — to demonstrate the same
> problem and prove that there is some wrong that is causing a memleak.

And here is that example converted to use CORBA style interfaces and no
memory leaks.


Program output:

==
[tmp]$ ./test.exe

IntegerValue:
TIntegerValue.Create
Number is 5
TIntegerValue.Destroy

MyApp:
TIntegerValue.Create
TMyApp.Create
Number is 10
TIntegerValue.Destroy
TMyApp.Destroy

MyAppAsInterface:
TIntegerValue.Create
TMyApp.Create
Number is 20
TIntegerValue.Destroy
TMyApp.Destroy

Heap dump by heaptrc unit
29 memory blocks allocated : 2045/2080
29 memory blocks freed : 2045/2080
0 unfreed memory blocks : 0
True heap size : 1409024 (32 used in System startup)
True free heap : 1408992

==


Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
program Project1;

{$mode objfpc}{$H+}
{$interfaces corba}

uses
  Classes,
  SysUtils;

type
  IValue = interface
  ['{C3151460-CA9B-447A-A7E8-86399222E844}']
function AsString: string;
  end;

  TIntegerValue = class(TObject, IValue)
  private
FValue: Integer;
  public
constructor Create(Value: Integer);
destructor Destroy; override;
function AsString: string;
  end;

  TMyApp = class(TObject, IValue)
  private
FValue: TIntegerValue;
function GetValue: IValue;
// this interface property doesn't need to be public
property Value: IValue read GetValue implements IValue;
  public
constructor Create(AValue: Integer);
destructor Destroy; override;
  end;

{ TIntegerValue }

constructor TIntegerValue.Create(Value: Integer);
begin
  inherited Create;
  FValue := Value;
  WriteLn('TIntegerValue.Create');
end;

destructor TIntegerValue.Destroy;
begin
  WriteLn('TIntegerValue.Destroy');
  inherited Destroy;
end;

function TIntegerValue.AsString: string;
begin
  Result := 'Number is ' + IntToStr(FValue);
end;

{ TMyApp }

function TMyApp.GetValue: IValue;
begin
  Result := FValue;
end;

constructor TMyApp.Create(AValue: Integer);
begin
  inherited Create;
  FValue := TIntegerValue.Create(AValue);
  WriteLn('TMyApp.Create');
end;

destructor TMyApp.Destroy;
begin
  FValue.Free;
  WriteLn('TMyApp.Destroy');
  inherited Destroy;
end;

// Program

procedure ExecuteIntegerValue;
var
  i: TIntegerValue;
  V: IValue;
begin
  WriteLn;
  WriteLn('IntegerValue:');
  i := TIntegerValue.Create(5);
  V := i;
  WriteLn(V.AsString);
  i.Free;
end;

procedure ExecuteMyApp;
var
  App: TMyApp;
begin
  WriteLn;
  WriteLn('MyApp:');
  App := TMyApp.Create(10);
  try
WriteLn(App.Value.AsString);
  finally
App.Free;
  end;
end;

procedure ExecuteMyAppAsInterface;
var
  app: TMyApp;
  V: IValue;
begin
  WriteLn;
  WriteLn('MyAppAsInterface:');
  try
app := TMyApp.Create(20);
V := app;
WriteLn(V.AsString);
  finally
app.Free;
  end;
end;

begin
  ExecuteIntegerValue;
  ExecuteMyApp;
  ExecuteMyAppAsInterface;
  ReadLn;
end.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-06 02:34, Marcos Douglas wrote:
> But, the result was the same, even using D7.
> So, is this by design? Sad...

Sad and nasty indeed. But it seems it is “by design” or done for “Delphi
compatibility”.

It would be interesting to know what Delphi developers think of this.
You should post the new code example and message to a Delphi newsgroup
or Google+ forum and see what they think of that. If it has been around
since the D7 days (and maybe even earlier), they might have an
explanation or work-around for you.

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-05 23:16, Tony Whyman wrote:
> Used properly reference counted interfaces are very powerful and allow 
> for some very elegant programming. Do you complain about AnsiStrings?

I have very powerful and elegant programming with CORBA interfaces too.
;-) Also as Martin mentioned, reference counting works wonders in simple
cases, but gets very nasty in medium to complex cases. I've seem some
COM Interface code where they had to resort to using raw Pointer types
etc to try and avoid reference counting and causing unexpected memory
leaks.  No such problems with CORBA Interfaces.

ps:
  You can obviously implement your own reference counted CORBA interface
  for the simple cases too. So you have the best of both worlds I guess,
  but when using CORBA Interfaces, I would avoid mixing reference
  counted and non-reference counted interfaces.

Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: [fpc-pascal] A serious Memleak using delegates/implements (was: Delegate Interface class does not seem to be referenced counted)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-06 05:54, Martin Schreiber wrote:
> Recently I had to revive my stone old AMD-K6 PC with Windows 95. What marvel, 
> that relict with its age-old applications provides a better user experience, 
> is snappier, more convenient and more productive than my newest Linux machine 
> with the modern desktops and applications.

We seem to have a lot in common. I still prefer Win2000 for any Windows
development (if I must use Windows). Memory efficient and very snappy
indeed! For Linux (actually FreeBSD) I long ago gave up on the extremely
bloated 'desktop environments' and have for years been using JWM (Joe's
Window Manager) - old school to the point, extremely fast and memory
efficient (8MB max) window manager. JWM stays out of my way, has hardly
any keyboard shortcuts to interfere with my daily programs, gives me a
task bar, virtual desktops and a popup menu. I don't need more than that.

Oh, and I run this on a Intel i7 3.5Ghz CPU with 32GB RAM. I prefer to
use my RAM for actual applications, VMs or the ZFS file system - not the
desktop environment. ;-)

Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Checking the validity of Format and friends at compile-time

[Santiago A.]

El 05/10/2016 a las 19:47, Michalis Kamburelis escribió:
> 2016-10-05 9:00 GMT+02:00 Maciej Izak :
>> 2016-10-05 4:32 GMT+02:00 Michalis Kamburelis :
>>> For example, the call
>>>
>>>   Format('%s', [123])
>>
>> I have a small hint (instead of answer). We have in mORMot / NewPascal in
>> SynCommons module nice function which works perfect in most of cases:
>>
>> FormatUTF8('%', [123], []); // same string '%' works for both: integer and
>> string values
>> FormatUTF8('%', ['123'], []);
>>
> That's a cool improvement. No need to write the type, so one less
> thing that can go wrong:) I seldom use non-standard formats anyway
> (like %g instead of %f for floats).

I don't agree. You are asking for a compile time check, but now you
accept skipping run time type check doing a automatic type conversion.
Things can go as wrong as with classic format but, without runtime error
or exception, hunting bugs is more difficult.  I support your first
idea: Compile time check.

I haven't understand very well whether Sven Barth's reluctance is a
matter of taste or whether there are serious technical reasons. If there
are not severe design drawbacks, I would go for it. I love compile time
checks. The more, the better.

-- 
Saludos

Santiago A.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Checking the validity of Format and friends at compile-time

[Marco van de Voort]

In our previous episode, Michael Schnell said:
> > RTL not to mention that user code that uses "array of const" wouldn't 
> > necessarily benefit from it.
> GNU C does check this when using printf() and friends, and rather 
> obviously the "array of const" is modeled after the C ellipse notation.

But array of const is safe, and C's isn't, which is why C compilers routinely
check it.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Checking the validity of Format and friends at compile-time

[Michael Schnell]

On 05.10.2016 07:59, Sven Barth wrote:
something like this definitely wouldn't become part of the compiler as 
that would mean an unnecessarily tight coupling between compiler and 
RTL not to mention that user code that uses "array of const" wouldn't 
necessarily benefit from it.
GNU C does check this when using printf() and friends, and rather 
obviously the "array of const" is modeled after the C ellipse notation.


-Michael
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