Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-11 Thread noreply 

On 2017-06-09 02:35, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:


On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:

So will lazarus be converting the IDE over to cocoa?


Probably.


Most stuff already works in Cocoa.

I haven't used LCL-Carbon for my personal projects in years, although
I still use it for the IDE.

You can use the IDE with Carbon for now (until Cocoa is good enough),
but for personal projects I recommend Cocoa, unless you are affected
by a missing functionality or something.


I don't know about others, but as a developer of end-user apps, these
paragraphs tell me 'stay away of cocoa'...


The risk is indeed that if you have an app that works fine in cocoa, 
then all of a sudden you discover that a new feature in your app will 
need a feature cocoa does not have yet in lazarus, you are stuck. So 
planning ahead of time is important, to see if the items you need are 
implemented, but sometimes planning ahead and guessing what components 
you will need, requires psychic power, or a time travel system into the 
future to see what you will need 2 years down the road.


For me, it's TScrollBox and TSplitter after looking in my crystal ball
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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-11 Thread noreply 

On 2017-06-09 02:22, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:

So will lazarus be converting the IDE over to cocoa?


Probably.


Most stuff already works in Cocoa.

I haven't used LCL-Carbon for my personal projects in years, although
I still use it for the IDE.

You can use the IDE with Carbon for now (until Cocoa is good enough),
but for personal projects I recommend Cocoa, unless you are affected
by a missing functionality or something.



I am affected already, and will be hiring a bounty on it (or human 
rather ;-) to get it working..


But a lot of basic stuff seems working according to the roadmap on the 
wiki

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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-09 Thread Michael Van Canneyt 



On Fri, 9 Jun 2017, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:


On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:

So will lazarus be converting the IDE over to cocoa?


Probably.


Most stuff already works in Cocoa.

I haven't used LCL-Carbon for my personal projects in years, although
I still use it for the IDE.

You can use the IDE with Carbon for now (until Cocoa is good enough),
but for personal projects I recommend Cocoa, unless you are affected
by a missing functionality or something.


I don't know about others, but as a developer of end-user apps, 
these paragraphs tell me 'stay away of cocoa'...


Michael.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-09 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho 
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:
>> So will lazarus be converting the IDE over to cocoa?
>
> Probably.

Most stuff already works in Cocoa.

I haven't used LCL-Carbon for my personal projects in years, although
I still use it for the IDE.

You can use the IDE with Carbon for now (until Cocoa is good enough),
but for personal projects I recommend Cocoa, unless you are affected
by a missing functionality or something.

-- 
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-09 Thread Mattias Gaertner 
On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:40:45 -0500
nore...@z505.com wrote:

>[...]
> I'm concerned about Carbon being unusable in the future, and apps like 
> Lazaurs are built on Carbon, right?

Yes.

> So will lazarus be converting the IDE over to cocoa?

Probably.

Mattias
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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-08 Thread noreply 

On 2017-06-07 10:45, Adriaan van Os wrote:

But as with everything Apple does (which is so G*d damn stupid), they 
keep on reducing functionality and removing >> all the useful features 
from the OS to dumb it down more and more - because all consumers are 
dumb asses right.

;-)


Fully agreed. Apple has become a fashion shop, where the lastest
winter of summer fashion collection deprecates all the crap they
released the seasson before. So that we all have to buy new gadgets
and rewrite all our software,



I'm concerned about Carbon being unusable in the future, and apps like 
Lazaurs are built on Carbon, right?

So will lazarus be converting the IDE over to cocoa?

It's possible carbon may stay around long enough, 5 years, 10 years, who 
knows - that it won't affect anything.


This maybe should be in fpc-other now, but, since it is lazarus/fpc 
related, I'll keep it here for now.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-07 Thread Adriaan van Os 

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

On 2017-06-07 06:32, nore...@z505.com wrote:

Does it require some work to get it working, or installations of stuff
that macOS doesn't normally have installed?


fpGUI doesn't have a native Cocoa or Carbon interface yet - one is 
planned. But for years OSX came with everything that was needed to run 
fpGUI based applications - XQuartz. So for years fpGUI based 
applications just ran without problems. XQuartz is a Apple version of 
the X server and came standard with OSX.


Note that the alternative is HITheme, which is 64-bit available. With HITheme you have do more work 
yourself, which I consider an advantage, as you are less dependent on the (absurdities of) the OS. 
With Carbon, Lazarus has to do very strange things internally to make Carbon work with the Lazarus 
Win32 based design of windows and controls.


But as with everything Apple does (which is so G*d damn stupid), they 
keep on reducing functionality and removing all the useful features from 
the OS to dumb it down more and more - because all consumers are dumb 
asses right. ;-)


Fully agreed. Apple has become a fashion shop, where the lastest winter of summer fashion 
collection deprecates all the crap they released the seasson before. So that we all have to buy new 
gadgets and rewrite all our software,


Regards,

Adriaan van Os
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Re: [fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-07 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 

On 2017-06-07 06:32, nore...@z505.com wrote:

Does it require some work to get it working, or installations of stuff
that macOS doesn't normally have installed?


fpGUI doesn't have a native Cocoa or Carbon interface yet - one is 
planned. But for years OSX came with everything that was needed to run 
fpGUI based applications - XQuartz. So for years fpGUI based 
applications just ran without problems. XQuartz is a Apple version of 
the X server and came standard with OSX.


But as with everything Apple does (which is so G*d damn stupid), they 
keep on reducing functionality and removing all the useful features from 
the OS to dumb it down more and more - because all consumers are dumb 
asses right. ;-) Anyway, so they removed XQuartz from the base install 
of OSX. It is now a separate add-on that you need to install. I can't 
remember in which exact OSX version they removed XQuartz though.


You can download XQuartz from the dedicated project website:

  https://www.xquartz.org/

After that, your fpGUI based applications will run as normal again.

Regards,
  Graeme

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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[fpc-pascal] fpGUI on macOS

2017-06-06 Thread noreply 

What sort of macOS abilities does fpGUI have?

Is fpGUI mostly for linux/bsd/windows, and not as much macOS?

Does it require some work to get it working, or installations of stuff 
that macOS doesn't normally have installed?


Thanks.
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